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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    I really was not expecting to see two Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal entries, let alone two that manage to go in thoroughly different directions like that. Lots of real interesting stuff in these builds. And 13 builds is way more than I was expecting. Going to be real interested to see what the judges make of all this.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Oh good! Someone went with the idea I scrapped.

    Looks like a fun collection this time!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Today I learned about another Dragon Magazine that is legal for this contest! The five basic modrons were updated in #354.

    That brings the legality count up to 361, 362, 363, and parts of 318, 354, 357, and 360.
    Last edited by Troacctid; 2021-02-21 at 03:04 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    I had a build that used in the centipede tattoo to use shadow walk to go to alternative prime material planes as per the rules in the manual of the planes to get themselves a futuristic weapon from the dungeon Masters guide, all of which you can get with exotic weapons proficiency futuristic weapons. Is that it dipped soulbound psychic warrior so that there was always ammunition. It was more of a look at these funny rules I found build

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    It was more of a look at these funny rules I found build
    So, par for the course on a dare build?

    I'm gonna start my judgements, but it might be a bit slower than usual.


    Currently Running WW/Mafia: flat_footed's Fallout 3: Forecast--Rapidly Changing Conditions

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    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    So, par for the course on a dare build?

    I'm gonna start my judgements, but it might be a bit slower than usual.
    The build I submitted was more par for the course.

    The antimatter rifle build was intriguing to me, but I couldn’t find a way to get stunning fist onto it, well...not without being kalashtar and taking a flaw.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Congrats to all the entrants!

    My stub was a spy/infiltrator build, Monk X/Factotum X/TM 10/Zhentarim Spy 5 or similar. Able Learner, of course, for skillmonkeying.

    Using the tattoos Chameleon, Crescent Moon, Phoenix, Tortoise and White Mask to impersonate, infiltrate, escape and be all around sneaky.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Here's how our contestants valued the tattoos.

    Tattoo Uses
    Chameleon 9
    Wasp 7
    Scorpion 6
    Tortoise 5
    Moon, Crescent 4
    Spider (OA) 4
    White Mask 4
    Mountain 3
    Phoenix 3
    Tiger 3
    Chrysanthemum 2
    Crab 2
    Dragon 2
    Lion 2
    Monkey 2
    Bamboo 1
    Bat 1
    Bellflower 1
    Butterfly 1
    Centipede 1
    Crane 1
    Falcon 1
    Ocean 1
    Spider (CW) 1
    Arrowroot 0
    Cloud 0
    Crow 0
    Dragonfly 0
    Moon, Full 0
    Nightingale 0
    Pine 0
    Sun 0
    Unicorn 0

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Here's how our contestants valued the tattoos.

    Tattoo Uses
    Chameleon 9
    Wasp 7
    Scorpion 6
    Tortoise 5
    Moon, Crescent 4
    Spider (OA) 4
    White Mask 4
    Mountain 3
    Phoenix 3
    Tiger 3
    Chrysanthemum 2
    Crab 2
    Dragon 2
    Lion 2
    Monkey 2
    Bamboo 1
    Bat 1
    Bellflower 1
    Butterfly 1
    Centipede 1
    Crane 1
    Falcon 1
    Ocean 1
    Spider (CW) 1
    Arrowroot 0
    Cloud 0
    Crow 0
    Dragonfly 0
    Moon, Full 0
    Nightingale 0
    Pine 0
    Sun 0
    Unicorn 0
    I was talking to some buds about just loading up on unicorn tattoos but that was nixed as an option. I would probably pair them with favored in house type feats and just have a “ hand me plot points please” character.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    That's a great idea for a table. Thanks, Troacctid.

    Here's a more traditional one tabulating everyone's choices of class and for scores and reveal later. Since this was such a large round, I thought it might be helpful for keeping them all straight.

    NAME STUB JUDGE 1 CHEF
    Diamond "The Inkblot" Westwall LE Nonbinary Vhaerath Deepwyrm Half-Drow Monk 7/Tattooed Monk 9/Henshin Mystic 4 - -
    Chi-Pokkena LG female feral dragonborn muckdweller Binder 5/KoSS 5/ Tattooed Monk 9 - -
    Captain O LN male azurin warblade 10/ tattooed monk 10 - -
    Tedmiliun Tissopebillis LN Human Monk 1 / Cloistered Cleric of Oghma 1/ Ranger 3/ Tattooed Monk 7 / Chameleon 8 - -
    Corentin LG hellbred (body aspect) monk 1 / totemist 10 / tattooed monk 9 - -
    Cole Sear, Master of the Spiritual Tattoo Magic Human Monk1/Shaman4/Tattooed monk2/Sacred Fist3/Tattooed monk8/Sacred Fist2 - -
    Shiba Bajiquan, Prime protector of the Isawa Family Human(Phoenix) Monk1/PsychicWarrior7/ShibaProtector1/PsychicWarrior1/TattooedMonk10 - -
    G.R.8 & his Shadow N>LG spirit lion totem barbarian 1/unarmed swordsage 2/cobra strike monk 2/tattooed monk 2/shadowdancer 2/drunken master 2/tattooed monk 4/shadowdancer 3/shadow sun ninja 1/tattooed monk 9 - -
    Kilroy: the Shape in the Stone LN elan totemist 6/tattooed monk 9/thief-acrobat 5 - -
    Glaucon LE Human Binder 8/Tattooed Monk 7/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 - -
    Mori Kumo LG Synad Monk 2/Ranger 8/Tattooed Monk 10 - -
    Juan T. LG human monk 1/psychic warrior 5/tattooed monk 9/Legacy Champion 5 - -
    Ry, The Illustrated Woman LE Changeling Rogue 3 / Monk 2 / Tattooed Monk 10 / Chameleon 3 / Marshal 1 / Warlock 1

    I haven't dug into all these yet, just skimmed, so if anyone sees alignments for Cole, Shiba, Gr8, or Glaucon, please let me know and I'll put them in the chart.
    Last edited by Venger; 2021-02-22 at 01:33 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Wow!

    I have my qualms with a few of these entries, but this round really is something. As usual, I feel completely outmatched by many of the entries submitted. Amazing work everyone! Hopefully, the judge(s?) will like your work as much as I did.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Thumbs up Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    My honourable mention goes to Glaucon

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Here's how our contestants valued the tattoos.
    There are two CW Spider Tattoos. Juan T and Mori Kumo both use it.

    I used Unicorn in one of the three builds that I didn't submit. The others have just enough overlap with one of my builds or someone else's that I should probably wait until after the final reveal to post them, but this one would've been fairly distinct this round, somewhat ironically as it was designed as a Gazeebo Jones Mk2 to get around the issues the original has with the CoR update to Thrall to Demon that are the bane of many an Iron Chef build.

    LG Dragonborn Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 7/Tattooed Monk 9
    1. Monk 1 – IUS, Toughness, Favored
    2. Monk 2 – Endurance
    3. Fighter 1 – Great Fortitude, TWF
    4. Fighter 2 – Dodge, Primary Contact
    5. Drunken Master 1
    6. Drunken Master 2 – Advantageous Avoidance
    7. Drunken Master 3
    8. Drunken Master 4
    9. Drunken Master 5 – Endurance
    10. Drunken Master 6 – Improved Feint
    11. Drunken Master 7 – Improved Grapple
    12. Tattooed Monk 1 (Chameleon) – Fortuitous Strike
    13. Tattooed Monk 2
    14. Tattooed Monk 3 (Unicorn)
    15. Tattooed Monk 4 – Better Lucky Than Good
    16. Tattooed Monk 5 (Chrysanthemum)
    17. Tattooed Monk 6
    18. Tattooed Monk 7 (Tortoise) – Make Your Own Luck
    19. Tattooed Monk 8
    20. Tattooed Monk 9 (Crescent Moon)

    Uses Dragonborn shuffle for Primary Contact early entry (disqualifying itself for TWF with the Dex reduction) into Drunken Master to get to 7th level for the Improved Grapple bonus feat to use it to qualify for Tattooed Monk in time to still get all 5 Tattoos. Alter Self into Animated Objects for reliable access to crazy reach and whatnot from Drunken Master a la the original Gazeebo Jones, with Luck feats and the Unicorn Tattoo as insurance against natural 1s, to keep him from breaking himself.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2021-02-22 at 05:05 AM.

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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    That's a great idea for a table. Thanks, Troacctid.

    Here's a more traditional one tabulating everyone's choices of class and for scores and reveal later. Since this was such a large round, I thought it might be helpful for keeping them all straight.
    ...

    I haven't dug into all these yet, just skimmed, so if anyone sees alignments for Cole, Shiba, Gr8, or Glaucon, please let me know and I'll put them in the chart.
    I checked the 4 builds you mentioned and as far as I see it, you only seem to have missed one:
    Quote Originally Posted by G.R.8
    Alignment: N --> L-G
    G.R.8 starts with the common "neutral" alignment for warforged. Due to his "former owners" and now "new friends", he switches to "lawful good" within his first 3 levels.
    to find under the "base stats" spoiler.

    ________________________________

    WOW, 13 entries and so diverse. And people where complaining about the PRC ^^
    I really didn't expect this. Well done everyone! I'm just sorry for the judge/s(?) that has/have so much to do this time. I'm halfway through reading the builds (and had a quick overview of all of em) and really all well done. Can't repeat that enough.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Khatoblepas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    I got too self conscious to post my build, but it looks like someone did the poison idea a lot more cohesively than I did! Counting psionic tattoos as real tattoos for tattooed monk though, wow.

    My idea was to use a Marrulurk for cha Death Attack, Unorthodox Flurry with a poison ring, and unseelie fey to key everything off charisma, and use the Poison Fangs graft from Serpent Kingdoms to generate my own poison. By using the Bellflower tattoo I could boost the poison save DC in my off time and milk myself.

    Unfortunately it relied too much on equipment and Unseelie Fey so I dropped it.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Some very nice builds, I was looking at focusing on that Scorpion poison on every attack, and taking a Thri-Keen, going Monk/Swordsage/Tattooed Monk/Bloodclaw Master and then between Claws, Bite, Flurry and Two-weapon fighting getting 12 attacks a round... Con damage everyone to death.

    Work just drained all brain power and creativity to expand the story out, and to figure out the last 4 levels and which maneuvers.

    Good to see someone else looked at move action tattoos, so standard action maneuvers for attacks
    Still here, just a little busy to social post

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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Chineselegolas View Post
    Some very nice builds, I was looking at focusing on that Scorpion poison on every attack, and taking a Thri-Keen, going Monk/Swordsage/Tattooed Monk/Bloodclaw Master and then between Claws, Bite, Flurry and Two-weapon fighting getting 12 attacks a round... Con damage everyone to death.
    The problem with this, I think, is, first off, claws and bites, not monk weapons, yeah? So you can't use them in a flurry. And second, it seems like there's not much value in going thri-keen to get those extra arms and stuff when you're already getting alter self, and you can just turn into, you know, a carrion crawler or whatever.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Uses Dragonborn shuffle for Primary Contact early entry (disqualifying itself for TWF with the Dex reduction) into Drunken Master to get to 7th level for the Improved Grapple bonus feat to use it to qualify for Tattooed Monk in time to still get all 5 Tattoos. Alter Self into Animated Objects for reliable access to crazy reach and whatnot from Drunken Master a la the original Gazeebo Jones, with Luck feats and the Unicorn Tattoo as insurance against natural 1s, to keep him from breaking himself.
    Oooh, that's a neat trick, I'll have to remember that. I was looking at Primary Contact as a way to early-enter the SI but I couldn't find a way to swap the feat in at 4th level.

    That table of chosen tattoos is interesting, lots of diversity. This is a round with so many super-weird builds and I love it.

  19. - Top - End - #139
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by NotInventedHere View Post
    Oooh, that's a neat trick, I'll have to remember that. I was looking at Primary Contact as a way to early-enter the SI but I couldn't find a way to swap the feat in at 4th level.

    That table of chosen tattoos is interesting, lots of diversity. This is a round with so many super-weird builds and I love it.
    Another possible way is Frostblood Half-Orc (or Orc) and Ranger 3 replacing Endurance with Primary Contact.
    Last edited by Korahir; 2021-02-22 at 08:25 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    Another possible way is Frostblood Half-Orc (or Orc) and Ranger 3 replacing Endurance with Primary Contact.
    Hmm, yeah - start out Monk 1 -> Ranger 3, that lets you put the necessary points in Knowledge (religion), and Ranger 3 gives you the BAB. And all the feats are bonus ones, so there's room for Favoured as a 1st or 3rd level feat.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by NotInventedHere View Post
    Hmm, yeah - start out Monk 1 -> Ranger 3, that lets you put the necessary points in Knowledge (religion), and Ranger 3 gives you the BAB. And all the feats are bonus ones, so there's room for Favoured as a 1st or 3rd level feat.
    And there’s a guild in city of water deep with a guild fringe benefit of adding +3 to a stunning fist DC 1/level. Patron diety tyr tho

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    I’m still reading through all the entries, but I had a few ideas that got build stubs but never really evolved into full entries.

    My first idea was using the fact that many of the tattoos have uses or bonuses based on the number of tattoos you have… but don’t actually specify that they have to be tattoos from that class. Of course, I could have gone full cheese with that idea and just arbitrarily stated having NI tiny tattoos all over my character’s body, but I thought I’d instead build a psionic character with Scribe Tatto. I had a bunch of build stubs with this and a few without; here are some of my more finished takes:

    1. Kalashtar monkless monk with Dancing with Shadows feat line

    Kalashtar, Psychic Warrior 10/Tattooed Monk 10
    Spoiler: build stub
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    Kalashtar, Psychic Warrior 10/Tattooed Monk 10
    1 Psychic Warrior1- Improved Unarmed Strike, Endurance
    2 Psychic Warrior2- Improved Grapple
    3 Psychic Warrior3- Power Attack
    4 Psychic Warrior4-
    5 Psychic Warrior5- Combat Expertise
    6 Psychic Warrior6- Monastic Training (psychic warrior)
    7 Psychic Warrior7-
    8 Psychic Warrior8- Improved Combat Expertise
    9 Tattooed Monk1- Path of Shadows
    10 Tattooed Monk2-
    11 Tattooed Monk3-
    12 Tattooed Monk4- Dancing with Shadows
    13 Tattooed Monk5-
    14 Tattooed Monk6-
    15 Tattooed Monk7- Tashalatora
    16 Tattooed Monk8-
    17 Tattooed Monk9-
    18 Tattooed Monk10- Scribe Tattoo
    19 Psychic Warrior9-
    20 Psychic Warrior10-


    Basically, take advantage of the chair’s ruling that a tattooed monk without monk levels counts as a monk for purposes of things like unarmed strike to make a PsyWar/Tattooed Monk Tashalatora build with 0 monk levels. And because it’s one of my favorite feats, I decided to go with a Dancing with Shadows build, a momentum-based build that combines Improved Combat Expertise and Power Attack with the feat to make a super defensive initial strike, followed by a full Power Attack the next round.

    I abandoned it because it was hampered by the poor PA returns of unarmed strikes, meaning that despite the full unarmed strike damage and size boosts it was likely better off using a two-handed weapon, and because it matured later than I’d like.

    2. Monkless monk, take 2 - crazy frog edition!

    Neraph, Psychic Warrior 10/Tattooed Monk 10
    Spoiler: build stub
    Show

    Neraph, Psychic Warrior 10/Tattooed Monk 10
    1 Psychic Warrior1- Improved Unarmed Strike, Endurance
    2 Psychic Warrior2- Improved Grapple
    3 Psychic Warrior3- Midnight Augmentation
    4 Psychic Warrior4-
    5 Psychic Warrior5- Linked Power
    6 Psychic Warrior6- Monastic Training (psychic warrior)
    7 Psychic Warrior7-
    8 Psychic Warrior8- Expanded Knowledge (bestow power)
    9 Tattooed Monk1- Tashalatora
    10 Tattooed Monk2-
    11 Tattooed Monk3-
    12 Tattooed Monk4- Metapower
    13 Tattooed Monk5-
    14 Tattooed Monk6-
    15 Tattooed Monk7- Scribe Tattoo
    16 Tattooed Monk8-
    17 Tattooed Monk9-
    18 Tattooed Monk10- xxx
    19 Psychic Warrior9-
    20 Psychic Warrior10-


    The same basic concept as the build above, but instead of a kalashtar dancer, this one was a crazy shapeshifting frog. Basic idea was to get lots of tattoo uses for lots of outsider form chameleon to shift between forms, with full unarmed strike to take full advantage, plus hustle to use the tattoos as a swift action. Devoted most feats to a basic slow infinite PP combo using Metapower and Linked bestow power, so that the froggy could go a courtin’ every combat, refreshing PP in between fights.

    Probably could have taken this build somewhere, but honestly I got pretty bored of it before even finishing.

    3. Dancing in the Dark

    Human, Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 3/Crusader 4/Shadowdancer 1/Tattooed Monk 10
    Spoiler: build stub
    Show

    1 Monk1- Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Darkstalker, Endurance
    2 Monk2- Mobility
    3 Psychic Warrior1- Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
    4 Psychic Warrior2- Improved Grapple
    5 Psychic Warrior3-
    6 Tattooed Monk1- Sidestep
    7 Crusader1-
    8 Crusader2-
    9 Shadowdancer1- Martial Study (defensive rebuke)
    10 Tattooed Monk2-
    11 Tattooed Monk3-
    12 Tattooed Monk4- Scribe Tattoo
    13 Tattooed Monk5-
    14 Tattooed Monk6-
    15 Tattooed Monk7- Elusive Target
    16 Tattooed Monk8-
    17 Tattooed Monk9-
    18 Tattooed Monk10- Psychic Renewal
    19 Crusader3-
    20 Crusader4-

    Maneuvers:
    1- Crusader’s strike, stone bones, douse the flames, tactical strike
    2- Mountain hammer
    3- Defensive rebuke
    6- Rallying strike, order forged from chaos

    Stances:
    1- Iron guard’s glare
    3- Thicket of blades


    Basically a take on one of the op showcases I’ve run before, Dancing in the Dark. Basic idea runs off of the fact that hide checks aren’t actions of their own, but rather are taken as part of movement, which means that Sidestep allows you to make an AoO and step into hiding in one action. The idea was a sort of backwards lockdown tank - you step into hiding, with a broad threatened area and thicket of blades. Enemies are forced to either try to find you (hopefully impossible with Darkstalker and a tricked out hide check via Scribe Tatto + monkey tat cheese) or leave you to attack your allies… but due to thicket and defensive rebuke and Stand Still, any time they try you can whack them, force them to stop in place via Stand Still and then step back into hiding via Sidestep.

    This was probably my favorite build and the one I was most likely to submit if I’d been motivated enough to do a writeup, but it was a trick I’ve already addressed in more detail in one of the showcases and I was annoyed that there was no good way to get Weapon Finesse on early or to leverage Improved Grapple to make it useful.

    4. Frogger take 2: Shadow Sun Giant Dwarf Oxymoronic Spectacular!

    Neraph, Swordsage 3/Monk 2/Shadow Sun Ninja 6/Tattooed Monk 9
    Spoiler: build stub
    Show

    1 Swordsage1- Endurance
    2 Passive Way Monk1- Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike
    3 Passive Way Monk2- Improved Trip, Improved Grapple
    4 Swordsage2-
    5 Swordsage3-
    6 Tattooed Monk1- Adaptive Style
    7 Tattooed Monk2-
    8 Tattooed Monk3-
    9 Tattooed Monk4- Sun School
    10 Shadow Sun Ninja1- *(new maneuver: comet throw)*
    11 Shadow Sun Ninja2-
    12 Shadow Sun Ninja3- Martial Study (leaping flame) *(new maneuver: shadow stride probably?)*
    13 Shadow Sun Ninja4-
    14 Shadow Sun Ninja5- *(new stance: step of the dancing moth)*
    15 Shadow Sun Ninja6- Improved Natural Attack *(new maneuver: ballista throw)*
    16 Tattooed Monk5-
    17 Tattooed Monk6-
    18 Tattooed Monk7- Martial Study (shadow blink)
    19 Tattooed Monk8-
    20 Tattooed Monk9-


    Nothing really new or exciting with this build in particular, but it made decent use of chameleon tattoo to turn into a dwarf ancestor and throw enemies around with comet throw and ballista throw. Fairly straightforward build, but outside of the chameleon tattoo access it didn’t really do anything all that great and I kept asking myself why I didn’t just have more levels of shadow sun ninja instead of tattooed monk.

    5. Psychic Drunken Tattooed Brawler Shadow Dancer

    Kalashtar, Monk 2/Fighter 2/PsyWar 2/Drunken Master 4/Tattooed Monk 10
    Spoiler: build stub
    Show

    1 Psychic Warrior1- Power Attack, Practiced Manifester
    2 Psychic Warrior2- Scribe Tattoo
    3 Monk1- Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike, Path of Shadows
    4 Monk2- Improved Trip
    5 Fighter1- Improved Grapple
    6 Fighter2- Dodge, Great Fortitude
    7 Drunken Master1-
    8 Drunken Master2-
    9 Drunken Master3- Endurance
    10 Drunken Master4-
    11 Tattooed Monk1-
    12 Tattooed Monk2- Dancing with Shadows
    13 Tattooed Monk3-
    14 Tattooed Monk4-
    15 Tattooed Monk5- Improved Combat Expertise
    16 Tattooed Monk6-
    17 Tattooed Monk7-
    18 Tattooed Monk8- Superior Unarmed Strike/Improved Natural Attack
    19 Tattooed Monk9-
    20 Tattooed Monk10-


    Another attempt to make the kalashtar Dancing with Shadows idea work. It tried to address the issue I had with the first build, where I couldn’t take advantage of good PA returns for maximum Dancing with Shadows fun without giving up the full unarmed strike damage I’d worked so hard to get. It did this by using drunken master, whose improvised weapons deal damage equal to their unarmed strike. This meant I could wield a big two-handed weapon, preferably something with reach, and get full PA returns without giving up the excellent base damage of the monk’s unarmed strike.

    Abandoned this one because, eh, it just felt like the build was a bit all over the place, and I constantly had a niggling feeling at the back of my head that there was a better way to make this all work if I could just figure it out. Also, it really annoyed me that I needed flurry for drunken master, when decisive strike would have been so good on this build. Sounds like a little thing, but it was enough of an annoyance that I never actually got super excited about this build.



    Anyhow, looks like a fun round overall! I’ve scanned over the entry table and it seems like a fun bunch. I’m looking forward to reading them in detail when I get some time.
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2021-02-22 at 09:46 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by NotInventedHere View Post
    Oooh, that's a neat trick, I'll have to remember that. I was looking at Primary Contact as a way to early-enter the SI but I couldn't find a way to swap the feat in at 4th level.

    That table of chosen tattoos is interesting, lots of diversity. This is a round with so many super-weird builds and I love it.
    Going Dragonborn can also disqualify races with Weapon Familiarity from Weapon Focus, since they lose proficiency when the weapon stops being martial for them, but of course that doesn't work for a Warforged.

    Other good ways to land Primary Contact at the level you want include the already mentioned Frostblood Orc's Endurance, Half-Elf Paragon 1, Human Paragon 2, and Marshal 1 when you already have Skill Focus (Diplomacy), though for Tattooed Monk, any of those would require all other early levels being full BAB, and hence non-Monk, and it's gonna be pretty feat-tight.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2021-02-22 at 10:08 AM.

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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Going Dragonborn can also disqualify races with Weapon Familiarity from Weapon Focus, since they lose proficiency when the weapon stops being martial for them, but of course that doesn't work for a Warforged.

    Other good ways to land Primary Contact at the level you want include the already mentioned Frostblood Orc's Endurance, Half-Elf Paragon 1, Human Paragon 2, and Marshal 1 when you already have Skill Focus (Diplomacy), though for Tattooed Monk, any of those would require all other early levels being full BAB, and hence non-Monk, and it's gonna be pretty feat-tight.
    Another dragonborn feat shuffle trick is that dragonborn automatically lose dragonmarks and anything that has a dragonmark as a prereq (see RotD pg 20). I used this a long time ago on Opsablepsia (back in the serene guardian round) to get Breath of Siberys early on for a nice early-game boost to a DFA's breath weapon and then swapped out for stuff that was more relevant in the mid-game. (Never used it for Primary Contact, though. That's clever.)
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Wow, glad to see so many unique entries including multiple versions of Tashalatora and Unarmed Variant Swordsage! Now I feel a bit less bad about not making it in this round after things got a bit busy IRL. I'm hoping things are a bit more quiet so I can sink my teeth into whatever comes next. Congrats everyone on some great builds!

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    The problem with this, I think, is, first off, claws and bites, not monk weapons, yeah? So you can't use them in a flurry. And second, it seems like there's not much value in going thri-keen to get those extra arms and stuff when you're already getting alter self, and you can just turn into, you know, a carrion crawler or whatever.
    Primary weapon being flurry of unarmed strikes which for a monk can be from any part of the body, not just fists; and then secondary attacks with natural weapons, being claws and bite. But yes, the 5/day alter self for up to 10 hours each from Chameleon is very strong
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  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Chineselegolas View Post
    Primary weapon being flurry of unarmed strikes which for a monk can be from any part of the body, not just fists; and then secondary attacks with natural weapons, being claws and bite. But yes, the 5/day alter self for up to 10 hours each from Chameleon is very strong
    When you make a flurry of blows, all your attacks have to be with monk weapons. That means no secondary attacks for that full attack, unless you have a way to treat them as monk weapons.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    When you make a flurry of blows, all your attacks have to be with monk weapons. That means no secondary attacks for that full attack, unless you have a way to treat them as monk weapons.
    ^this
    If you want to flurry you may only use monk weapons for the entire turn/round. However, you could use one of the legal methods to expand the monk weapon list. E.g. Shou Disciple lets you flurry with any melee weapon. It just doesn't work with Natural Attacks (since they aren't handheld weapons as the definition of melee weapons demand it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chineselegolas View Post
    Primary weapon being flurry of unarmed strikes which for a monk can be from any part of the body, not just fists; and then secondary attacks with natural weapons, being claws and bite. But yes, the 5/day alter self for up to 10 hours each from Chameleon is very strong
    If your intend is max amount of melee attacks per round: Shadow Pounce
    With access to shadow pounce you can full attack up to 3 times per turn (swift action, movement action and standard action teleports needed for this).
    Build 11 lvls of flurry progress combined with TWF feat line. Try to hit a min. of +16BAB and you have 27 attacks per turn

    And if you really intent to go non-flurry for the sake of natural weapons, there are other more interesting options. Be a changeling warshaper (1 lvl dip is enough, but other levels can still be interesting) to get you morphic weapons and thus get access to any natural weapon you ever wanted. Have a look at this thread to see your options for morphic weapons.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    On a different note, now that the reveal has happened, do we have any other potential judges? Is anyone willing to judge alongside AV?

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    ^this
    If you want to flurry you may only use monk weapons for the entire turn/round. However, you could use one of the legal methods to expand the monk weapon list. E.g. Shou Disciple lets you flurry with any melee weapon. It just doesn't work with Natural Attacks (since they aren't handheld weapons as the definition of melee weapons demand it).
    +1 Aptitude Necklace of Natural Attacks + Unorthodox Flurry (Claw) would allow you to treat every type of natural attack as a monk weapon, since Unorthodox Flurry applies to a single weapon of your choice and Aptitude makes those feats apply to that weapon. Those Changeling Warshapers would be able to flurry with their fists and attack with their many natural weapons like a champ.

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