DataNinja's Scintillating Digital Random Banter #231

[Tvtyrant]

It's okay, the exercise keeps it warm.

Especially if you use a dash of lavender.

[Mystic Muse]

...I'm just gonna be frank and say that very time Marvel arguments and minutia discussion come up in this thread, my eyes glaze over. Especially since they very often go around and around in circles, for many many pages. Or are just about some overly pedantic thing. And... I feel like that's the same for a lot of people who aren't versed in all of that.

I'm the same way. I don't know enough to get invested, and the arguments aren't heated enough for me to take a side.

Granted, I don't want this thread to go into freefall, but watching threads go down in flames in general can be entertaining.

[Lord Raziere]

I'm the same way. I don't know enough to get invested, and the arguments aren't heated enough for me to take a side.

Granted, I don't want this thread to go into freefall, but watching threads go down in flames in general can be entertaining.

I mean I debate with Rater on some things, but Superhero stuff I can't really since superhero universes make so little sense, there is nothing to discuss: anything goes because magic, technology, super-genetics, super-skill and so on and forth all exist at once so there isn't really any consistency at all I can see, as I could just make up anything and it'd be a valid superhero concept. my metaphysical discussions depend on there being some consistency and unified power source that has to be figured out to maximize potential, when thats unneeded in a superhero universe- whats the point of figuring out one thing if I can become another thing through entirely different, just as valid means? When literally anything is possible, the only thing that matters is what you WANT to do with it, not what you need to figure out to make this or that work.

like I have superhero concepts, I love superheroes, but fundamentally I like them because I can make my own unique thing with them, not have to conform to some system and game it to just to make something possible.

[Rater202]

What you're claiming is required knowledge.

When did I ever claim it was required knowledge?

I didn't.

What I claimed is that the Hulk knows it by instinct and can instinctively use it to figure out how to do things, allowing him to do the things perfectly.

If you're trying to smash a tank from muscle memory and experience with how hard to punch, eventually you're gonna screw up and kill the people in the tank.

Hulk never will—due to instinctive mathematic powers, due to thinking in math and automatically quantifying the world in numbers without having to take measurements, he always knows the exact amount o force to use, and how.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'd like to see more halberds in fantasy fiction. And other polearms in general actually, they're actually really cool weapons in general.

Yes, this comes from me reworking my novel plan because I realised swords were too prominent. The eventual soldier viewpoint is now a halberdier, and possibly a woman, while if I add in a magic weapon it'll probably be a spear (at the moment there's no magic items planned, but one character gets a really nice sword). Then due to the fact that there's at best only one trained soldier present for something like 70% of the story I've made a note to start arming characters with axes, bows, and polearms.

It's also helped with worldbuilding, the royal guard are now explicitly halberdiers, which has helped with building an image of them (bright blue gambesons* paired with feathered hats and cloaks baring their personal or house seal). I had no clue what I was going to have them wear until deciding that. But deciding on one outfit has helped build a feel for this world, one relatively impoverished where cloth is seen everywhere and metal armour extremely rarely.

Which is great, because it works for a later plot element.

* Used because I didn't want them in breastplates and they don't appear as useful armour enough.

[Peelee]

When did I ever claim it was required knowledge?

I didn't.

What I claimed is that the Hulk knows it by instinct and can instinctively use it to figure out how to do things, allowing him to do the things perfectly.

If you're trying to smash a tank from muscle memory and experience with how hard to punch, eventually you're gonna screw up and kill the people in the tank.

Hulk never will—due to instinctive mathematic powers, due to thinking in math and automatically quantifying the world in numbers without having to take measurements, he always knows the exact amount o force to use, and how.

Dude, you're claiming it's required knowledge in this very post. if Hulk won't ever do X because he has special knowledge and anyone else will do X some point because they don't have special knowledge, that's required knowledge. I frankly don't know how to explain it any simpler.

And I don't particularly care that some writer said "Hulk won't ever do that ever ever period" because another writer some day can say "oh whoops he did that what a twist!" They're comics, they can be fun and interesting and make cutting commentary on society and human nature but they're not sacred texts that are sources of narrative purity. Hulk will kill someone the second a writer decides that would make a good story, and then another writer will get upset and decide that was in Alternate Earth Times Infinity because welcome to decades-long syndicated stories where the points are made up and the rules don't matter.

If you want to get into comics minutiae with me, that's doomed to failure because I largely don't read comics, and I especially don't read non-Star Wars Marvel comics, so I will never have anyyhing to say on the in-universe comics side. I will only ever have something to say on the out-of-universe metaphorical sausage-making or how silly some aspects are because of how ridiculous the concept the author claims is. Superman lugging a bunch of planets chained together is ridiculous. Hulk thinking in numbers and instinctively knowing math for his punches is ridiculous. Because it doesn't work like that.

There are things I like which are ridiculous, and I've never spent a second trying to justify them because I don't need justification. I can acknowledge that it's ridiculous and still enjoy it. Someone else pointing out that, say, the Illinois Nazi car falling from above the Sears Tower after driving off a small bridge in the Blues Brothers is stupid does not ruin my enjoyment of that scene. I'll never try to argue that in that universe there is a half completed bridge with a shallow slope that for reasons unknown goes a mile into the airspace above Chicago and is also completely unobtrusive and invisible to the skyline, because I don't need to. I can just enjoy the movie by embracing that it's a ridiculous movie with ridiculous scenes that make no sense and are completely outlandish. If anyone else tries to argue that the bridge makes sense, I'll argue against them, because its ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with a story or series being ridiculous if it's good and you enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with the Hulk doing whatever he does in his comics. All I'm saying is that, just like the bridge in the Blues Brothers making no sense, "thinking in numbers and doing instinctive math" makes no sense. That's alright. It's fine for it to make no sense. But if you want to go on a crusade to say how it totally makes sense, you're in for one hell of an uphill climb.

[Tvtyrant]

I'd like to see more halberds in fantasy fiction. And other polearms in general actually, they're actually really cool weapons in general.

Yes, this comes from me reworking my novel plan because I realised swords were too prominent. The eventual soldier viewpoint is now a halberdier, and possibly a woman, while if I add in a magic weapon it'll probably be a spear (at the moment there's no magic items planned, but one character gets a really nice sword). Then due to the fact that there's at best only one trained soldier present for something like 70% of the story I've made a note to start arming characters with axes, bows, and polearms.

It's also helped with worldbuilding, the royal guard are now explicitly halberdiers, which has helped with building an image of them (bright blue gambesons* paired with feathered hats and cloaks baring their personal or house seal). I had no clue what I was going to have them wear until deciding that. But deciding on one outfit has helped build a feel for this world, one relatively impoverished where cloth is seen everywhere and metal armour extremely rarely.

Which is great, because it works for a later plot element.

* Used because I didn't want them in breastplates and they don't appear as useful armour enough.

Probably because spears and halberds are formation weapons, and formations are rarely heroic.

[LaZodiac]

Here's something that is comic related (good for frequent poster friends) but also not drenched in age old nonsense (good for people who don't read comics).

My beautiful, wonderful, all around best in the world girlfriend got me the entire Sandman series for my birthday. I'm nearly done volume 6 and this is truly excellent a series.

also I am shocked no one pounced on my dream as a topic of discussion. Guess I'm no longer as interesting as I once was, ah. The pains of being an Old, I suppose.

[Peelee]

My beautiful, wonderful, all around best in the world girlfriend got me the entire Sandman series for my birthday. I'm nearly done volume 6 and this is truly excellent a series.

I am happy for every part of that!

Also, on a wholly irrelevant note, I may have gotten slightly addicted RealLifeLore's videos on geography affecting specific country's historical civilization progression.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably because spears and halberds are formation weapons, and formations are rarely heroic.

Also because if the setting includes AoE magic you quickly learn why the squad sergeant tells you to never bunch up.

[Bartmanhomer]

I play Patty Cake with a male hatchling gold dragon yesterday. It was fun and nostalgic.

[LaZodiac]

I am happy for every part of that!

Also, on a wholly irrelevant note, I may have gotten slightly addicted RealLifeLore's videos on geography affecting specific country's historical civilization progression.

It's quite a wonderful gift. A Game Of You had a... rough ending, but like literally every time she ever shows up ever, Death made it better simply by existing and being the best of the Endless.

That sounds neat. What is Real Life Lore, exactly? I can make a guess, but I'm curious how you'd put it.

I play Patty Cake with a male hatchling gold dragon yesterday. It was fun and nostalgic.

I'm going to ask this, because I truly have to; do you mean in reality, or do you mean in DND? Because if it is the later, I don't think this is the place for that sort of story. Do go to the DND part of the forum they're sure to be interested!

[factotum]

My beautiful, wonderful, all around best in the world girlfriend got me the entire Sandman series for my birthday. I'm nearly done volume 6 and this is truly excellent a series.

Sandman is absolutely fantastic, yes, and it maintains the quality right through to the final panel, which is rare in any medium, much less graphic novels/comic strips.

[Lacco]

...I'm just gonna be frank and say that very time Marvel arguments and minutia discussion come up in this thread, my eyes glaze over. Especially since they very often go around and around in circles, for many many pages. Or are just about some overly pedantic thing. And... I feel like that's the same for a lot of people who aren't versed in all of that.

I can completely agree with this. I'm like "Hulk... Hulk... the green guy? The angry one? Does not kill anyone... huh. Okay, he's not so angry as he looks like."

And that's it. It would be more interesting if he could see the universe as ascii game.

I'd like to see more halberds in fantasy fiction. And other polearms in general actually, they're actually really cool weapons in general.

Swords were not only prominent but too expensive when compared against the halberds. Also, if you are going for armed soldiers, crossbows would make a bit more sense. The time it takes you to train a bowman is rather long - crossbows are easier.

Probably because spears and halberds are formation weapons, and formations are rarely heroic.

I'd agree with spears, but halberds are more "city" weapons, mostly because they give you the opportunity to swing, thrust, but also keep your distance. Closing distance against a halberd/spear is a bit complicated if the halberdier knows what they are doing. You don't want to get the point.

I play Patty Cake with a male hatchling gold dragon yesterday. It was fun and nostalgic.

Sounds like Dwarf Fortress description.

Is Bartmanhomer actually viewing universe as ascii?

[Form]

I'm the same way. I don't know enough to get invested, and the arguments aren't heated enough for me to take a side.

Granted, I don't want this thread to go into freefall, but watching threads go down in flames in general can be entertaining.

I don't understand why those arguments sometimes get heated in the first place. From my perspective, when it happens they're always arguing over trivial and insignificant things. Sure, it can be a fun thought experiment to see which character would win in a fight or what a writer may or may not have intended or whatever, but to choose something like that as a hill do die on? It's ultimately just fiction and not really that important.

In those situations I'm inclined to think that there's actually something else that is making someone angry and the Marvel or DC comic argument is just the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Rater202]

It's five in the morning, it's cold as all hell, and I don't currently have a heater.

I'm not in danger but it's inconvenient.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm going to ask this, because I truly have to; do you mean in reality, or do you mean in DND? Because if it is the later, I don't think this is the place for that sort of story. Do go to the DND part of the forum they're sure to be interested!

In reality.

[Tvtyrant]

I'd agree with spears, but halberds are more "city" weapons, mostly because they give you the opportunity to swing, thrust, but also keep your distance. Closing distance against a halberd/spear is a bit complicated if the halberdier knows what they are doing. You don't want to get the point.

In European practice the point of the halberd is they required little training. The creation of professional pike companies ended the use of the halberd, as pikes are both better at defense against cavalry and had a much more devastating charge. Pikes require professional soldiers though, while halberds are comparatively bad at everything but easy to train.

One of the ironies of the transition from halberd-bowmen-knight in the 14th century to the pike-handgun-lancer of the sixteenth century is the dumping ground for untrained soldiers moved from the halberds to the gunmen, and the middle professionals went from bowmen to pikemen. The cavalry maintained their status as elites but became more fragile over time. There were battles were massive infantry armies lost to small armies of cavalry into the 1350s, but by 1500 that was over.

[Bartmanhomer]

Sounds like Dwarf Fortress description.

Is Bartmanhomer actually viewing universe as ascii?

What's Dwarf Fortress and ASCII?

[Fyraltari]

What's Dwarf Fortress and ASCII?

ASCII is the American Standard Code for Information Interchang, it's a norm attributing numbers to characters so that computers (who only understand number) can send messages to one another.

Dwarf fortress is a video game where the players build fortresses inhabited by dwarves and fill them with traps for funsies. It features an extremely detailed game world but instead of graphics uses only ASCII charcters (otherwise the amount of data would be impossible to manage on any affordable computer).

[Rawhide]

but instead of graphics uses only ASCII charcters (otherwise the amount of data would be impossible to manage on any affordable computer).

Ummmmmmmm?

[Bartmanhomer]

ASCII is the American Standard Code for Information Interchang, it's a norm attributing numbers to characters so that computers (who only understand number) can send messages to one another.

Dwarf fortress is a video game where the players build fortresses inhabited by dwarves and fill them with traps for funsies. It features an extremely detailed game world but instead of graphics uses only ASCII charcters (otherwise the amount of data would be impossible to manage on any affordable computer).

Interesting. I might look into it.

[Rater202]

My knowledge of dwarf fortress ii that it's the game where elves will sell you wooden products and then get mad at you for using wood.

And that large quantities of lava cover all sins.

[Fyraltari]

Ummmmmmmm?

I wasn't aware. Thanks.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And that large quantities of lava cover all sins.

One of those truths of the universe that doesn't get acknowledged enough, IMHO.

[Jasdoif]

My knowledge of dwarf fortress ii that it's the game where elves will sell you wooden products and then get mad at you for using wood.

They've gotten better about that, now they get mad at you for using wooden products that weren't made by elves.

[Fyraltari]

They've gotten better about that, now they get mad at you for using wooden products that weren't made by elves.

Do they sell those as well?

[Tvtyrant]

Do they sell those as well?

Surly not right?

[Rater202]

One of those truths of the universe that doesn't get acknowledged enough, IMHO.

Honestly, the ability to control and generate magma would be another one of those powers that would be cool to have for just that reason.

Lava control. Earth control(which should include lava control, if you're powerful enough, but they're usually kept separate,) plant control, wind control, water/ice control, lightning generation, weather control(which is to say, the combination of specialized versions of the last couple but is usually separate.)

If I had to pick one it would be plant control, but the idea of being able to exert tangible control over a force of nature has a certain... appeal to it in general.

Control over things like gravity or the nuclear forces also has an appeal, but with the exception of electromagnetism, they don't really have the same primal, visceral appeal as making the grass beneath someone's feat explode into crushing vines or projectile vomiting a stream of white-hot molten earth, ya know.

[Tvtyrant]

Murder or assault with super powers is still a crime.