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2021-02-05, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I just came across this compilation of Chris Perkins and Planescape: Torment pronouncing Sigil with a hard G.
So it is official that the city isn't pronounced the same as the symbol. Some characters even take offense if you forget that.Originally Posted by Planescape Campaign Setting, Sigil & Beyond p4, Her Honor Rastina Tollin of the Guvners
Bonus question: And you, fellow French players, have you ever played in "Siguil"?
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2021-02-05, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- Sweden
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
To me Sigil is one of those things that only exists on the internet, I thought it was Sijil but I guess Sigil with a hard g is the correct way to say it. Sounds kinda ugly though.
Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2021-02-05, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Vacation in Nyalotha
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2021-02-05, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
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- Paris, France
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2021-02-05, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2013
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- Slovakia
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Sidžil.
What...?Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
Formerly GMing: Riddle of Steel: Soldiers of Fortune
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2021-02-05, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
The confusion arises because "sigil" as in "the floor of the wizard's lab contained a summoning circle lined with arcane sigils for conjuration and abjuration"...that is pronounced "sijil".
"Sigil" as in "the City of Doors" is correctly pronounced "siggle".
It does sound ugly.
But so does pronouncing "Demogorgon" as "DEE-mo-gor-gun". But that's what's technically correct.
Planar stuff often has weird pronunciation. I go with official sources as much as possible. The Baldur's Gate games were what helped me learn to pronounce "drow" (rhymes with "how", as in "how do you do?"), "tiefling" (TEE-fling), and "genasi" ("gen-AH-see", hard "g").
As an aside, "GIF" as a file extension...I know the guy who made them said it's pronounced "jif", but the first letter stands for "graphic", not "juraphic".Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
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Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2021-02-05, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I just don't care about how English people pronounce obviously non-English stuff like Demogorgon. That's a perfectly phonetic word with a pretty clear etymology. I mean, if we let English speaker have their say, we'd pronounce Acheron as Esheron and Asgard as Æsgard.
Same for Sigil. Sijil is weird. Though, to be fair, Siggle is even weirder and it never occured to me before today that anyone could pronounce it like that.Last edited by Eldan; 2021-02-05 at 11:01 AM.
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2021-02-05, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2021-02-05, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I've always pronounced it with a hard G because that's how the guys in my first D&D group said it the first time I ever heard of Planescape.
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2021-02-05, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I call it Sijil no matter what people say or think it is. Thats what it is to me and those inhabitants who insist otherwise can deal with it, insisting on proper pronunciation is on par with those peoples who insist on linguistic purity in terms of not mattering.
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2021-02-05, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I always thought it was "Sijil" (pronunciation-wise), and that still sounds better to me, but in fact I think I've only discussed it in writing, not speech.
Last edited by icefractal; 2021-02-05 at 06:15 PM.
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2021-02-05, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Sigil not sijil. OTOH I mispronounce the word sijil as sigil anyway, so it already sounds "correct" to me. Like many D&D words, they're ones you never hear in real life, so it's easy to get them wrong when you only ever read them.
As a teen I spent an entire session calling the alcoves in a module "ack-lowves" before my friends had enough and corrected me.
is it Vaas or vayce?
Is it Bra-zier or Bray-zer?
Is it boo-lay or bull-ette?
(About the only one that gets my goat is when people call dark elves drough instead of drow.)Last edited by Tanarii; 2021-02-05 at 07:59 PM.
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2021-02-05, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
In this thread:
The GitP forum discovers linguistics for the first time.
Ok guys, I have shocking news for you:
The idea of each word having one objectively correct pronunciation is LAUGHABLE. And in many instances, wrong.
For instance, the following word:
Crayon.
Some pronounce it "CRAY-on"
Some pronounce it "Cran"
Both are correct.
How about "Coupon?"
Some pronounce it "COOP-on"
Some pronounce it "KYOO-pon"
Again, both are correct.
How about the ever-debated "GIF?"
Welp, according to how linguists do things, (Go look at how people say it, and then describe how people actually pronounce it) the most common is hard-G "GIF", by a fairly big margin.
"JIF" is in second place
And pronouncing it "G-I-F," letter-by-letter is the rarest.
So you'll get fewer odd looks with hard G. But those top two are still both correct for now. The bottom one is weird but probably not wrong.
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2021-02-06, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Imagination Land
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
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2021-02-06, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- Sweden
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2021-02-06, 03:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2013
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- Paris, France
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I've always pronounced it with a soft "dj". And in French, as "Sigille", as in "vigile".
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2021-02-06, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
If they wanted it pronounced with a hard g, they should spell it differently from the real word that is pronounced with a soft g.
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2021-02-06, 08:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- GMT
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
My thoughts exactly. There are so many options: Siggil, Síguil, even Sigill (because fish have gills not jills)... This isn't a case of a city name that has existed for hundreds of years where the original spelling is still kept even though the pronunciation has evolved over time, it was knowingly created in a language with non-transparent orthography. Imo if you're creating a situation where casual fans are highly likely to mispronounce your fictional name and those more familiar with the work must either put up with that or sound like pedants, then you're committing a creator faux pas.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2021-02-06, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I just had someone the other day talking about Simulacrum (pronounced it "simm-ul-AY-crum"). Had to remind them that it's the same root word as "simulate" or "simulation". If anyone's curious, it's "si-myuh-LA-kruhm".
Brazier is "brei-zhr". It's not supposed to sound like "brassiere".
Bulette, according to the 2e Monstrous Manual, is pronounced "boo-lay". That's the only pronunciation I've ever noticed in an official book.
And I must confess I used to say "drough". Baldur's Gate 2 made me realize I was wrong. There was an official pronunciation guide on the old wotc site back in the day. I, regrettably, no loner have the link.
Nope. Neither is "crown" (and yes, some people say it like that).
It's "KREI-aan".
Webster's Dictionary is very specific about that. Other pronunciations are due to regional dialect differences. Variations of a correct way to pronounce a word.
Saying "both are correct" or "there's no correct way to pronounce a word" is like saying "there's no such thing as an accent". Hell, I'm from Michigan, and like most Michiganders, when I say the word "both", it comes out sounding kind of like there's an "L" in it ("bolth"). Does that mean it's "correct" to put an invisible L in the word? No. It's a regional dialect. And it's just how it sounds. Michiganders tend to use a lot of nasal cavity resonating in our pronunciation. Has something to do with the humidity of the region.
Also wrong. One does not drive a "kyoop" De Ville. One does not overthrow a ruler in a "kyoop" (or "kyoo") d'etat. A "Blow of Mercy" is not a "kyoop" or "kyoo" de grace*. It's pronounced "Koo-pon".
*On that note, the last word of that is not pronounced "grah". "Coup De Grace" is not pronounced "koo de grah". THAT would be spelled "Coup De Gras", and would mean "Blow Of Fat". "Coup De Grace" means "Blow Of Mercy" and is pronounced "koo de grahs".
This one caused debate, because it is an acronym. I still maintain that pronouncing the letter that stands for a "hard G" word with a "soft G" is...bizarre, if not blatantly stupid, but I can't find any fault with saying "G-I-F" letter by letter.Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2021-02-06, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Fun fact: trying to spell things out phonetically just using normal letters doesn't work, because different dialects and accents pronounce those letter combinations differently than you do. Use the IPA, guys. Or just stop trying to do this.
Anyway, yeah, words can be pronounced differently, but place names generally have one accepted pronounciation in any given language.
You'd be more used to this if you lived in the UK, I'd wager.
Source: I actually went to college for this stuff.
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2021-02-06, 09:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Weirdly, even WotC themselves now have a policy of ignoring the origins of the words when they decide on the pronunciations of places, which is why you get M:tG planes like Ixalan (Pronounced "IX-a-lon" rather than "EE-sha-lon") and Ravnica (Pronounced "RAV-ni-ca" rather than "Rav-NEETS-a").
The S in laser stands for a word beginning with a soft S but I have never heard anyone pronounce it "Lacer" rather than "Lazer" under any circumstances for as long as I've lived. I pronounce it gif rather than jif too, but the logic here is clearly faulty.
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2021-02-06, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Originally Posted by GeoffWatson
If they wanted it pronounced with a hard g, they should spell it differently from the real word that is pronounced with a soft g.
I have a feeling that the hard-g variant was a mispronunciation that became fixed for some reason—probably because, like Tanarii, someone hadn’t heard it spoken before, and they ended up reinforcing it in their social circle.
Although that quote from the Planescape Campaign Setting seems more than a little tongue-in-cheek, approaching GotG levels, so I wonder if they’re just not making fun of their own mispronunciation. I know very little about Planescape, but it never occurred to me not to pronounce it with a soft g, just like the real word.
Originally Posted by Unavenger
Weirdly, even WotC themselves now have a policy of ignoring the origins of the words when they decide on the pronunciations of places, which is why you get M:tG planes like Ixalan (Pronounced "IX-a-lon" rather than "EE-sha-lon") and Ravnica (Pronounced "RAV-ni-ca" rather than "Rav-NEETS-a").
But something like Ixalan, which so plainly echoes Nahuatl, is almost made ridiculous by the “official” mispronunciation. There’s an opportunity here to give people an introduction to the real-world inspiration behind the lore, but they seem to be going for the lowest common denominator.
For instance, I assumed Ravnica was something like "rav-NEEK-ah," since I've never heard it pronounced by anyone; but "rav-NEETS-a" sounds much more interesting. That gives it a little more depth than just a random fantasy word.
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2021-02-06, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2020
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- Area 51
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Sick Jill sans 'ck'
I ran Planescape when it came out, had all the box sets - even the many useless ones - and the audio disk. Sigil like the idea of a symbol. Rhymes with Vigil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil
one of the best designed settings in the history of AD&D. It managed to do what Spelljammer tried to do, but failed, and what Ravenloft managed to do by pissing off players - without pissing off players:
gather a bunch of people from different campaign settings together into a new, strangely familiar, but somehow unique world.
Sigil was like the Gaming Convention version of a Setting, complete with cosplay.
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2021-02-06, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2021-02-06, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Last edited by Tanarii; 2021-02-06 at 03:15 PM.
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2021-02-06, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
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- Paris, France
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2021-02-06, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
I've always pronounced Sigil with a soft G.
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2021-02-06, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
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- The Old West
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Historically speaking, no, not as long as people knew what you meant. Before we started printing dictionaries that could be spread all over the place it was very hard to get consistent spellings, even from people who wrote a lot. Even for their own names.
Edit: I've always pronounced it like sijil, like the word (at least how it is for English speakers I've known). I don't think I'd make that big a deal out of it, but if I'm running Planescape I'm not going to have anyone complain about how it's really pronounced. That's obnoxious enough in real life. I assume people don't know how the city's name is "really" said because the early material didn't come with a pronunciation guide.Last edited by Luccan; 2021-02-06 at 05:48 PM.
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2021-02-06, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Earth
Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
Since I'm currently running a Planescape game, I have NPCs pronounce it both "Siggle" and "Sijil", and some of them get cranky if you "mispronounce" it
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2021-02-06, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: Do YOU pronounce Sigil with a hard or soft G?
The original Latin has a hard g. So that's what I use. Don't care what English does.
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