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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    My point there was: since there are absolutely no necessity for the very existence of "deals or pacts" - it's pretty weird to point you can ignore them

    Just one canonical example: "The Amarantha Agenda" adventure (Dungeon #123). Amarantha in question is a dryad who was unwillingly bound to Ironmaw which forced on her Half-Fiend template and Warlock class. To the end of the adventure, Amarantha successfully got rid of Ironmaw and Half-Fiend template - but not of Warlock class. How it's possible, if the very source of her abilities is gone now?
    Isn't called "Experience points" Because you have experience as you level up? If she is separated from the pact she won't have her special abilities like normal. But the class levels she earned will still be there, due to her, key word, experience at being a warlock. What she gained like feats and skills proves she would keep the levels
    So, does a archer that lost his limbs still retain the archer class? Yes, because he had the knowledge and experience. I think it's the same deal.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    How it's possible, if the very source of her abilities is gone now?
    To un-Warlock her, the PCs need to find the Warkey.
    Last edited by Nifft; 2021-02-18 at 02:10 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    To un-Warlock her, the PCs need to find the Warkey.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    it always felt weird to me that wands and staves couldn't be recharged.

    I'm not saying making them disposable is inherently a waste, but they're roughly equivalent to guns that can't be reloaded.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    My point there was: since there are absolutely no necessity for the very existence of "deals or pacts" - it's pretty weird to point you can ignore them

    Just one canonical example: "The Amarantha Agenda" adventure (Dungeon #123). Amarantha in question is a dryad who was unwillingly bound to Ironmaw which forced on her Half-Fiend template and Warlock class. To the end of the adventure, Amarantha successfully got rid of Ironmaw and Half-Fiend template - but not of Warlock class. How it's possible, if the very source of her abilities is gone now?
    I think it works on a enabling/learning basis. Once you unlocked the warlock powers you have access to em no matter what. Compare it with Sorcerer & Wizards. A Sorcerer is a natural talent who discovers himself how to use magic. The wizards goes to school to let other educate him. The warlock is to lazy to go to school and not a natural talent either. This is why he invites an evil entity as house teacher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    it always felt weird to me that wands and staves couldn't be recharged.

    I'm not saying making them disposable is inherently a waste, but they're roughly equivalent to guns that can't be reloaded.
    Don't we have rules to refill charges? Or was that just a specific prc ability? Dunno Imho there was something like that in 3.5 or pf..

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    PF has stave recharge. 1 charge able to be recharged a day, gotta put a slot/spell equal to the highest level spell it can cast.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    it always felt weird to me that wands and staves couldn't be recharged.

    I'm not saying making them disposable is inherently a waste, but they're roughly equivalent to guns that can't be reloaded.
    Just plug them into the wall. It's like sticking a fork in the wall socket, only a little less zappy. Or more zappy, depending on the spell.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    it always felt weird to me that wands and staves couldn't be recharged.

    I'm not saying making them disposable is inherently a waste, but they're roughly equivalent to guns that can't be reloaded.
    I think you can use the old stick that ran out of charges completely and given the right feat craft it as a magic wand or staff again. Maybe it is like those “rechargeable” electronic batteries or devices that you are meant to let completely run out of power before you recharge them?

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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Can I nominate Book of Vile Darkness?

    That whole book says it's about evil campaigns and/or how to run villains. Yet it's more like a mix of edge and squick that would only seem mature to a 13 year old and has bafflingly bad advice on the actual bit about running villains / evil PCs.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottriman View Post
    Can I nominate Book of Vile Darkness?

    That whole book says it's about evil campaigns and/or how to run villains. Yet it's more like a mix of edge and squick that would only seem mature to a 13 year old and has bafflingly bad advice on the actual bit about running villains / evil PCs.
    There's a bit of decent material in there and some of the parts talking about Evil itself are actually pretty nice, but yeah. Exemplars of Evil is probably a better choice for that.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Also stupid thing: you have to be a caster to make things with Craft(alchemy). Yes, even nonmagical acid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Also stupid thing: you have to be a caster to make things with Craft(alchemy). Yes, even nonmagical acid.
    Ahh yes that rule I had automatically retconned away the instant I saw it because of how nonsensical it was. It just bounced off my GM brain and I never even remember it except in discussions like these.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottriman View Post
    Ahh yes that rule I had automatically retconned away the instant I saw it because of how nonsensical it was. It just bounced off my GM brain and I never even remember it except in discussions like these.
    I know right? I mean, Craft(poisonmaking) isn't any different and some of those alchemical items aren't much more complicated than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Obligatory mention of Sanctify the Wicked from BoED.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    Obligatory mention of Sanctify the Wicked from BoED.
    The idea that anyone isolated in a gem for a year can automagically find they should be good instead of just hating the caster.
    Or that mind control + unnecessary suffering is good(it is either of the interpretation but both are horrible) is plain silly.
    Last edited by noob; 2021-02-19 at 10:09 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    The idea that anyone isolated in a gem for a year can automagically find they should be good instead of just hating the caster.
    Isn't it more the opposite, like the dark romance trope that isolation would make you LOVE your jailer?

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    "Mind rape" and "program amnesia" have more or less the same effect, but only one of them has the evil descriptor.
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    The idea that anyone isolated in a gem for a year can automagically find they should be good instead of just hating the caster.
    Or that mind control + unnecessary suffering is good(it is either of the interpretation but both are horrible) is plain silly.
    The whole point of "poison is evil" (but ravages aren't) is that poison causes undue suffering.

    Presumably, any suffering the soul in the gem experiences, is considered due suffering.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-02-19 at 02:01 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The whole point of "poison is evil" (but ravages aren't) is that poison causes undue suffering.

    Presumably, any suffering the soul in the gem experiences, is considered due suffering.
    Drow Sleeping Poison causes undue napping. I guess it's [Evil] napping.

    Ravages were really a missed opportunity -- there are plenty of other non-suffering things you could do to impair combat capabilities, and spells which served that function such as calm emotions, hideous laughter, and irresistible dance were already in the game. Really just a failure of imagination to use ability damage.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Drow Sleeping Poison causes undue napping.
    And it's specifically called out as not evil by BoED.
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    And it's specifically called out as not evil by BoED.
    Oh, nice. That's one point in favor of BoVD saying non-stupid things.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Oh, nice. That's one point in favor of BoVD saying non-stupid things.
    There's plenty of non-stupid things in BoED (and in BoVD as well) - unfortunately, the stupid things tend to get the most focus on by the fandom.

    And of course different fans will have very different opinions. For some, "torture is always evil" is stupid. For others, it's not.
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  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    "Mind rape" and "program amnesia" have more or less the same effect, but only one of them has the evil descriptor.
    Well one spell has the chilling implication of a 10 minute casting time, so if you use it on an unwilling target they are most likely bound in some way or unconscious.

    The other spell is mindrape.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There's plenty of non-stupid things in BoED (and in BoVD as well) - unfortunately, the stupid things tend to get the most focus on by the fandom.

    And of course different fans will have very different opinions. For some, "torture is always evil" is stupid. For others, it's not.
    I think barely anyone will say that view is stupid. Many will, however, say it's wrong.

    Which gets us back to "alignment is dumb", which, yeah. "You wanna play an LG paladin? Oopsie, you just poisoned a mass murderer, so no more good alignment for you. Your NG barbarian body who just tore an animal in half and is currently bathing in her blood is fine though."

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by goodpeople25 View Post
    Well one spell has the chilling implication of a 10 minute casting time, so if you use it on an unwilling target they are most likely bound in some way or unconscious.

    The other spell is mindrape.
    Programming takes time and effort?

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    I think barely anyone will say that view is stupid. Many will, however, say it's wrong.

    Which gets us back to "alignment is dumb", which, yeah. "You wanna play an LG paladin? Oopsie, you just poisoned a mass murderer, so no more good alignment for you. Your NG barbarian body who just tore an animal in half and is currently bathing in her blood is fine though."
    BoED and BoVD had to deal with topics that have eluded thinkers for many millenia and them staple them into the framework of being objectively true in the world. I admire them doing as well as they did with an insane task, but alignment is ultimately highly problematic at best (heck, half the time things have certain alignments for convenience, no matter how little sense it makes).

    As for something silly: let me hop on the "multiclass penalty" train. Its purpose was silly; its execution bad. Even the most RAW stringent DMs I knew would just drop it.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    BoED and BoVD had to deal with topics that have eluded thinkers for many millenia and them staple them into the framework of being objectively true in the world. I admire them doing as well as they did with an insane task, but alignment is ultimately highly problematic at best (heck, half the time things have certain alignments for convenience, no matter how little sense it makes).

    As for something silly: let me hop on the "multiclass penalty" train. Its purpose was silly; its execution bad. Even the most RAW stringent DMs I knew would just drop it.
    Oh yeah, I don't blame the creators of BoVD and BoED for the cluster**** that is alignment. As I was saying, discussing specific bad decisions made by them pretty much brings us back to "alignment is dumb."

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Thing item in BoED that gives ref dc 15 for half damage on attacks and evasion applies. Starmantle cloak? Take one ToB maneuver so you do not fail on 1s and get plus 14 reflex, and you are mostly immune to damage.

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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    There are a couple prestige classes that get a full attack after any Teleportation effect. One of the best spells for this, because it's level 1 and an immediate action, is called Stand. But, you have to be prone for it to work. This leads to a scenario in which the best tactical option for a character is to walk up next to an opponent, drop to the floor, then click their heals (or whatever casters do for somatic components while prone, but that's a post in and of itself) then next thing you know, they're stabbing someone a whole bunch.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Silliest Material in 3.5e?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harrow View Post
    There are a couple prestige classes that get a full attack after any Teleportation effect. One of the best spells for this, because it's level 1 and an immediate action, is called Stand. But, you have to be prone for it to work. This leads to a scenario in which the best tactical option for a character is to walk up next to an opponent, drop to the floor, then click their heals (or whatever casters do for somatic components while prone, but that's a post in and of itself) then next thing you know, they're stabbing someone a whole bunch.
    Ah, shadowpouncing. That’s a fun one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
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