OOTS #1225 - The Discussion Thread

[Necris Omega]

If this is our final remaining "original" gate guardian, it'll be especially interesting to hear the extent of her knowledge on the matter.

It seems almost certain the Order of the Scribble didn't have the complete picture on the scope of the issue.

[Emperor Time]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

I hope not since there both great. And if one of them dies then were down to two members left which is dangerously low.

[Emmit Svenson]

Well, we're about to see if my "Zeus and Giggles" theory is correct...!

I like this theory a lot, but I can't buy it. The dialogue in OoTS 1189 just doesn't fit a surviving Western god who is covertly helping the Snarl. If they've been helping all along, why is this time any different ("...we're finally doing this...") and why after hundreds of thousands of dead worlds are they about to die ("Fun while it lasted....existing")?

Second, I can't see a god hang on for hundreds of thousands of dead worlds if just one screwy world is enough to imperil Hel.

Third, he's a puppet.

[The MunchKING]

Team Evil would be... is there an overarching threat in the Pokemon anime? It's been a minute since I actually watched it.

Team Rocket, just like, all the rest of them that AREN'T Jessie and James.

[Yanisa]

About the child drawings: I am disheartened to think that someone with a child is willing to aid in the end of existence, in whatever form that end takes. I presume Orange and Green know of the other planes, and know that death is not the end of existence, so cooperating in the destruction of everything including those outer planes is pretty self-centered. Definitely not good parenting.

It could also be someone with low int, which are often depicted as child-like in the comic. See Thog, who was, besides his child-like demeaner, very much a evil person willingly committing evil acts.

Although that type of character is a bit done in the comic...

[danielxcutter]

Team Rocket, just like, all the rest of them that AREN'T Jessie and James.

Wasn't there a pair of losers who sucked just as much as them?

[Oito Luas]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

If O-Chul dies it will probably trigger the MitD's change of heart

Green=Zeus (or some other unknowingly-surviving Eastern God such as Hades). Thinks the Snarl should run the show. Wants to stop fighting it and has sabotaged all previously possible attempts to stop it. And he's still going. He survived the demolition of his pantheon because they shared believers, and has held on my (a) using only minimal power, conserving energy, and (b) the other gods still think about him, and god-thought sustains pretty powerfully, as thoughts go. But it's why he can't do much, and why he needs an ally. The grey-green arm shown in the comic is that of a dying (gray) Eastern god (green).

Interesting! Alternatively, the Eastern Pantheon could've been born again in the world(s) inside/beyond the gates. Is there a theory like this already? I mean, If the snarl still contains green quiddity & it created another world inside this one... it's a possibility!

[Yanisa]

Wasn't there a pair of losers who sucked just as much as them?

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

Butch and Cassidy, who are basically "the other team rocket" of the anime are depicted as the successful group in contrast with Jessy and James constant failing. But on screen their schemes fails just as easily. Perhaps you meant them.

Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

[danielxcutter]

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

Isn't that like at least 75% of Pokemon villains in general?

Butch and Cassidy, who are basically "the other team rocket" of the anime are depicted as the successful group in contrast with Jessy and James constant failing. But on screen their schemes fails just as easily. Perhaps you meant them.

I think yeah.

Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

Granted some of the other teams aren't much better. Actually most aren't.

[The MunchKING]

Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

Well, the kid beat him through superior firepower, so in that metaphor the kid is 10-year old Rambo or something. It's not that Team Rocket sucked in Red and Blue, you were just supposed to be that Overpowered.

[TaiLiu]

Other people have mentioned Serini already. I personally can't help but think the dexterous and strong duo might be related to Serini and Kraagor, who would fit that archetypal duo well, albeit imperfectly. "Related," of course, is doing a lot of work here—I don't have a clue if the strong one is a Kraagor clone or something else, but it seems like it would be connected specifically to him in some way.

It would also account for the childish pictures. In OOTS, Barbarians have often been depicted as childish, with Thog being the star example.

[B. Pseudonym]

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

To be perfectly fair, some 10-year-olds in the Pokemon universe keep literal deities as pets. Or, you know, whatever Ash's Pikachu had going on.

[JackJin]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.

The only thing strange about this theory to me is the Oracle requesting a full Resurrection at a later date, which may or may not be after the point in time this group is expecting to not be existing anymore. But this pair fits the bill of teleporting mysterious figures not aligned with either any known heroes OR villains. But it tells me the boss, Green, might be a third figure we hadn't seen before.

[Xlsfd]

Now we just need to know how much time passed in-universe between Strip #1189 and this one. In my opinion, it can't have been much longer than one day, if even that.

[Jordok]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.

I would guess "the Boss" in this case would be the great five-headed Mistress of Dragons

[hroþila]

About the child drawings: I am disheartened to think that someone with a child is willing to aid in the end of existence, in whatever form that end takes. I presume Orange and Green know of the other planes, and know that death is not the end of existence, so cooperating in the destruction of everything including those outer planes is pretty self-centered. Definitely not good parenting.

I think there's no real reason to assume the invisible captors are aiding in the end of existence. To me, their dialogue read more as fatalistic humour - Green knows that, if it's come to this, the chances of the Snarl getting out and their being unmade are high. They're "doing this", but "this" could be pretty much anything having to do with the defense of the Gate.

[Corneel]

The mysterious figure is clearly a troll. After all they are stirring the pot.

[Fyraltari]

Now we just need to know how much time passed in-universe between Strip #1189 and this one. In my opinion, it can't have been much longer than one day, if even that.

Strip 1188, Belkar asks to listen in on Elan recapping the plot to Minrah while V casts Sending. Strip 1189, O-Chul and Lien receive V's Sending informing them the Order is due in two days, they are then captured by the invisivoices. Strip 1190, Belkar wakes up and is told they've just arrived near O-Chul and Lien's position. Strip 1191, Roy mention Belkat listened to Elan two nights in a row.

It's been two days.

[danielxcutter]

Strip 1188, Belkar asks to listen in on Elan recapping the plot to Minrah while V casts Sending. Strip 1189, O-Chul and Lien receive V's Sending informing them the Order is due in two days, they are then captured by the invisivoices. Strip 1190, Belkar wakes up and is told they've just arrived near O-Chul and Lien's position. Strip 1191, Roy mention Belkat listened to Elan two nights in a row.

It's been two days.

Huh, if that's not author fiat I don't know what they used on the paladins then. Pretty sure most options that knock people out are usually measured in hours at the most, not days, and that's including magic.

[Fyraltari]

Huh, if that's not author fiat I don't know what they used on the paladins then. Pretty sure most options that knock people out are usually measured in hours at the most, not days, and that's including magic.

Repeated doses are always an option.

[danielxcutter]

Repeated doses are always an option.

Yeah, that does make sense assuming they're using something like drow poison and not something that does ability damage. Wouldn't be surprised if Green lied about the poison burning through O-Chul's arteries.

[Pory]

Mmh...let's see:
-Orange clothes on top of the cabinet
-Little blue book on table
-Lots of little plants that resemble a natural environment

I thinks it's obvious that we are talking about...Baron Pineapple

[Peelee]

I think there's no real reason to assume the invisible captors are aiding in the end of existence. To me, their dialogue read more as fatalistic humour - Green knows that, if it's come to this, the chances of the Snarl getting out and their being unmade are high. They're "doing this", but "this" could be pretty much anything having to do with the defense of the Gate.

Exactly. I've been beating that drum since that comic was released.

Mmh...let's see:
-Orange clothes on top of the cabinet
-Little blue book on table
-Lots of little plants that resemble a natural environment

I thinks it's obvious that we are talking about...Baron Pineapple

Now this is a theory I can get behind!

[Riftwolf]

If O-Chul dies it will probably trigger the MitD's change of heart

No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

[locksmith of lo]

When I saw the tall-yet-stubby-armed figure, the first thing that jumped into my head was Belkar on his stilts in Azure City. But a second thought was maybe its a serpentine body, and its only raising itself that high because of the cauldron?

funny thing is that i thought the same kind of thing and i had to go back to look at the artwork for malack to see if he had short arms. no, he did not, but i definitely thought about the lizardfolk too.

but i still think serini and kid too. having a living space with no doors makes sense with a kid too. we have learned what happens when you leave your kid alone in the dungeons... they get turned into hats and maybe a piece of armour!

[Ninja Dragon]

Poor NPCs, getting captured over and over so that the PCs have someone to rescue.

[Shining Wrath]

It could also be someone with low int, which are often depicted as child-like in the comic. See Thog, who was, besides his child-like demeaner, very much a evil person willingly committing evil acts.

Although that type of character is a bit done in the comic...

So, Lenny to someone's George. George letting Lenny be destroyed utterly is also not a good thing. Yes, I know how that story ends - not the same.

Poor NPCs, getting captured over and over so that the PCs have someone to rescue.

And neither of them has the simple decency to be a Princess.

[KorvinStarmast]

It seems almost certain the Order of the Scribble didn't have the complete picture on the scope of the issue.

They were too busy with intra-Order drama to keep track of the fiddly details.

The mysterious figure is clearly a troll. After all they are stirring the pot.

+1

So, Lenny to someone's George.

Who is George and who is Lenny? I missed the ref.

[Skull the Troll]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.

The only thing strange about this theory to me is the Oracle requesting a full Resurrection at a later date, which may or may not be after the point in time this group is expecting to not be existing anymore. But this pair fits the bill of teleporting mysterious figures not aligned with either any known heroes OR villains. But it tells me the boss, Green, might be a third figure we hadn't seen before.

They had two very different speaking styles. The lizardmen spoke like upper-class Brits.

They were too busy with intra-Order drama to keep track of the fiddly details.
+1
Who is George and who is Lenny? I missed the ref.

Of Mice and Men by Steinbeck. Lenny is the man with a mental handicap that travels with George. He is very dependant on George and it doesn't end well. I don't want to spoil the ending if you haven't read it.

On another note. We haven't factored in how this child clearly has enormous strength. They are driving darts into stone block walls!

[Ron Miel]

Of Mice and Men.

Of Mice and Men is a novella written by John Steinbeck.[1][2] Published in 1937, it narrates the experiences of George Milton and Lennie Small, two displaced migrant ranch workers, who move from place to place in California in search of new job opportunities during the Great Depression in the United States.

George Milton: A quick-witted man who is Lennie's guardian and best friend. His friendship with Lennie helps sustain his dream of a better future.

Lennie Small: A mentally disabled, but gigantic and physically strong man who travels with George and is his constant companion.[5] He dreams of "living off the fatta' the lan'" and being able to tend to rabbits.