OOTS #1225 - The Discussion Thread

[Darth V]

Hey folks, late to the party, so obvious "two kobolds above each other" joke isn't funny anymore...


First things first, Lien could have won this Paladin-Off easily if she just had mentioned that her life depended on Elan! Not even Elan himself, but his hand puppet god!!!

Yes, the font is

Spoiler

Show

WizardSpeak
blambot.com/products/wizardspeak

The words on the cauldron are

Spoiler

Show

magic instant pot

Thank you, I read the thread in hope of finding a translation.


Allow me to give my proverbial two copper pieces:

Thank you, deltamire, for giving insight of the hand colour. I think we can rule out (hob)goblins, orcs, bugbears, drow(?) and kobolds... The skin colour of the hag was mentioned... Do we have a direct comparison on that? Otherwise I think Captain Captor™ might be someone new and unexpected. Compare comic 970 where skin colour was correctly identified as orc and right guesses about Bozzok came up early.

Regarding Greenhand: may it be that ze is wearing green gloves? Do we have any examples how gloves-wearing looks like in new graphics? (since fingers gained width I mean)?

We have enough examples of gloves in the new art style. I am afraid there is nothing conclusive to be seen, because nowadays with the new art style there is no much change in hand size. Some time ago it was easier to tell if a stick hand had gloves...


If Pot Stirrer (let's make a new name!) is the same one as Captain Captor™ even at all!

Who ever was playing ALSO isn't the one who captured the Paladins, since they were dropped with accurate shots.

Whoever threw the darts at the dart board and managed to miss the whole board itself with all three tries is not the same entyity that hit both paladins in their necks on first try (not counting Lien blocking one dart; if she hadn't blocked it that would be a straight hit too). At least I am interpretating the lower half of the stick figure heads as necks for noticable lack of visible necks in the art style. Hitting that accurate is quite a feat, real world police/military is trained to aim for center of mass because greater target area. Clichéed headshots are for hollywood movies and ego shooter games. Hitting necks needs even more accuracy than headshots! Compare and contrast Redcloack's terrifying aim for hitting opponents between the eyes...

Isn’t the usual size of an adventuring party 4-6? The builder of this room is genre-savvy.

Whoever built that room, they were expecting to hold a standard adventuring party in their living room FFS! Seems a bit like Bond Villain Lair... Either Pot Stirrer™ is very powerful or at least thinks that they are powerful enough to do so. Very Bond Villain...

The background in panel 4 isn't the same as that in panel 3, though the relative positions of the captor and the pot are very similar. This suggests that the captor is circling the pot as they stir it, as borne out by the cloak/coat appearing to drag on the floor.

What probably is supposed to be a close-up/zoom-in looks like a completely different shot. Maybe an art error, Giant changed the background in the last minute? Drawer in the background seems the same, it's just the plant that wasn't there before. My bet is art error. Wait no, looking closer again: the drawer from panel 3 is not the same thing in the background from panel 4! Panel 4 has a desk in the background! So definitly a change in perspective. (or an even greater art error)...


Don't have a specific quote for that, but someone mentioned the scribbled pictures at the wall. I can rorschach-see a dragon on the left right? one of those pictures, too. Inserting flashbacks to Girard's dining room... On that note I am more interested in the framed picture above the bed (somehow I don't think it reads "Home Sweet Home"), the note on the right cupboard (maybe "Don't open! No, not even then!"), the paper sheets on the table and of course the book next to the bed. But sometimes a pipe is just a new OOTS update...

@Theories about the book being Serini's diary: No, Xykon has Serini's diary.




TLDR: Cloaked figure has unusual skin colour. Not any race we have seen before IIRC. Arm too short etc as noticed in thread. Pot Stirrer™ might not be the capturer because aim of dart board doesn't hold up to aim of poisoned dart thrower aka coloured voices.





Now for some fun things:

Using an advanced technique called "comparing the size of my cursor to O-Chul in the wide shot and then comparing that to other objects in the scene," I have determined that the wardrobe handles are about half to 2/3rds of an O-Chul off the ground, and the wardrobes are just shy of two O-Chuls tall.

The handles being between waist and shoulder height on an average human seems fairly normal to me. The wardrobes themselves, however, are really tall, at about eleven feet depending on how tall O-Chul is.

If we can't convince them to adopt metric, could we at least force everyone into the O-Chul-Measurement?

Not the first time comics had a doubled name. There was a thread for that somewhere. (Sorry didn't search for that now). Most of the time it might even be deliberative, for example The Bright Side Part One and Part Two.

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

Yes, that is interesting. I couldn't make up my mind about that. Maybe just story telling convention to preserve the mystery about Captain Captor™? Tarquin did the same thing...

[hamishspence]

Not the first time comics had a doubled name.

The point they're making isn't that it's a doubled name - it's the the latest comic is in the wrong place on the list.

Or was, at least. Now it's no longer between 1190 and 1191 - but where it belongs, at the top.

[B. Pseudonym]

No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

I mean... hopefully not, but he is sort of a grizzled mentor archetype.

We already had one person escape the disposable mentor trope, during the book that was specifically about tropes. I'm not convinced it'll happen again.

Then again, his Constitution score is around room temperature, so he might be hard to put down regardless.

[Emanick]

I'll also take that bet.

Oh, there's almost certainly no connection between Captain Captor and the IFCC. I was just making a stupid pun.

[bunsen_h]

No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

I can see it along the lines of: "No, Monster-san, it has to be this way. This is the only way to stop the Snarl. Look for me when you reach the mountain in the heavens, many years from now. I will wait for you."

[JonahFalcon]

Is it wise to have fumes where there's no ventilation?

PS. Another callback -- this time to 1031. They just love trying to one-up each other, huh?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html

[Ron Miel]

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

Being invisible helped them to make the capture. They darted O-Chul before he knew they were there, and Lien couldn't fight them without seeing them. After the capture there was no need to remain invisible.

[Bookshelfstud]

You know, I gotta admit, the Holey Brotherhood is seeming more and more likely to me. Am I crazy?

We have Rich saying that there would be a major ally in the first half of this book who has appeared in exactly one strip so far, prequels included. The Holey Brotherhood is only in one of the crayon flashbacks, shown fighting Girard Draketooth and Lirian, and their representative is wearing a cloak much like Captain Captor here. I also get the vibe from Green Voice in 1189 that Green and Orange aren't necessarily enemies of the Order - Green seems regretful about how messy the kidnapping was, and obviously Lien and O-Chul are, you know, *alive.*

But more importantly, Green seems very resigned to the end of existence. This implies a lot of things, obviously - they know something about the Snarl and the way the gods restart reality. Combine this with the Holey Brotherhood, who believed that the holes of the Snarl had every right to exist...what if this ally, perhaps the Holey Brotherhood, knows or has discovered something about the world through the rifts? And now that the last Gate is under assault, maybe it's time to put into motion some sort of plan to let the world in the rifts be born through to the main world, erasing existence but creating a new world that has "every right" to exist, too?

*What rough Snarl, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Kraagor's Gate to be born?*

Alright maybe it's a little tinfoily. Maybe.

[Dion]

Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling

Good catch! But maybe they’re doing trick shots. Like... blindfolded, doing cartwheels, and throwing with their off foot.

I’d still expect an epic level halfling rogue to hit more than that, though

[hroþila]

Generally speaking the good guys need allies whose goals broadly align with their own. Unsealing the rift and/or destroying this world are not things the Order should be on board with.

[B. Pseudonym]

You know, I gotta admit, the Holey Brotherhood is seeming more and more likely to me. Am I crazy?

Maybe a little. He did specify they would be an important ally, and the Holey Brotherhood's pro-rift agenda makes them... probably not that.

That said, if it ends up being the Holey Brotherhood, the canyon full of tunnels would become hilariously fitting, especially if they had some change of heart with regard to doors at some point in the last sixty years.

A change of heart with regard to doors would also allow them to help maintain the Gates without violating their holey convictions... and if they know the Snarl intends to destroy the entire material plane, then they would also know that that would leave no medium for holes to exist in... and Serini did seem to have help building the Tomb... and now I'm here thinking the Holey Brotherhood miiiiiiiiiiiiiiight actually come back.

On the other hand, they were very much opposed to the creation of the Gates in the first place, even though the Scribblers presumably told them what was at stake. What would've stopped them from just blowing up Serini's Gate as soon as they found it?

[Bookshelfstud]

On the other hand, they were very much opposed to the creation of the Gates in the first place, even though the Scribblers presumably told them what was at stake. What would've stopped them from just blowing up Serini's Gate as soon as they found it?

Yeah I mean this definitely requires a shift in motives for the HB. Maybe they want a bargaining chip, and having only 1 Gate left means all the cards are on the table? Mixed poker metaphor? I just have a strong feeling that the world on the other side of the rifts is going to turn out to be something that the OOTS has to choose whether or not to let live/save, and if that's the case then we need a faction advocating for that world on the other side.

[Metastachydium]

Personally, I still think that
1. the Voices (or whatever we call them now that one of them might not be just a voice anymore) and the Mystery Ally are going to be different characters;
2. the Voices are draconic creatures (for quite a number of reasons; most recently, the drawing of a dragon on the wall gives me some hope);
3. the Mystery Ally is going to be aligned with the IFCC (and might very well be the Vessel); and
4. if the Voices are indeed draconic creatures, they might serve Tiamat.
As for who might and who might not qualify as an important ally for the Order, I'd like to point out that the Mystery Ally is explicitly stated to become an ally of the Order for the first half of the book, which could imply that they will cease to be an ally at a point and therefore their objectives might differ significantly from those of the Order even if some of their tactical priorities coincide.

[bunsen_h]

Is it wise to have fumes where there's no ventilation?

We don't know that there's no ventilation. All we know is that Lien couldn't see any windows or doors, which doesn't even necessarily mean that they don't exist.

Is there some analogue of Purify Food and Drink that can be used to freshen air?

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't want to spoil the ending if you haven't read it.

I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out.

"No, Monster-san, it has to be this way. This is the only way to stop the Snarl. Look for me when you reach the mountain in the heavens, many years from now. I will wait for you."

That's very O-Chul. +many.

We don't know that there's no ventilation. All we know is that Lien couldn't see any windows or doors, which doesn't even necessarily mean that they don't exist.

Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

[Ghosty]

I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out....

...Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

Having read both, I was going to say, "You chose...poorly," but it turned out great. Guess that old Zen master was onto something. OMAM is good, but I like Steinbeck.

I have a kitchen with limited ventilation. It's...not pleasant. I just figured, like the lighting requirements for plants, that 'magic!' was handling it.

The comment referencing the dart player has enough strength to drive the darts into solid blocks, (and is careless enough or childlike enough to leave them there)...sound like anyone we know?

I'll be disappointed if the Holey Brotherhood shows up, but I think the Giant could make it great anyway.

[bunsen_h]

Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation.

[Hopeless]

Maybe they use a variation of the same transportation system Haley just bypassed however temporarily?

Spoiler

Show

Is there no chance Serini is related to Belkar or did they mention Serini's surname?

[Goblin_Priest]

Yeah Instant Pots are designed to be extremely easy to use. It's a slow cooker with a microwave screen basically, it has auto-sets for most foods and depressures itself automatically. I use it for food prep because it takes about 10 minutes to set up tops and then the food is done in 3 hours and ready to refreeze.

Instant Pots are pressure cookers (among a bunch of other related things), slow cookers are not.

I've got a slow cooker, but I barely ever use it. Honestly, I don't really see the appeal. I don't find it any less work than stove-top cooking.

They are...but also it's a $100 combo pressure cooker/saute pan/slow cooker/rice cooker/yogurt maker, whereas you can get a basic slow cooker for like $30. All the people I personally know who have them are pretty good cooks who like the ease but also the flexibility as opposed to people who otherwise don't cook (although maybe that's just me). All I'm saying is that it's more like a programmable coffee machine with a timer than, say, a nespresso pod machine.

Therefore (or maybe just "in any case") this seems to me to be more likely to be a joke based on the faddishness of the instant pot (like the TeeVo way back when) than it is an indication of whether the pot requires a magic user to use.

I don't really get the appeal of instant coffee machines, either. Coffee... is... super easy. Put the grinds in a filter, put water, and voilà. If you want to grind it yourself, again, no extra difficulty, just an extra appliance. Instant coffee machines are just pricier lower quality environmental disasters.

Like the Instant Pot, Instant Coffee, imo, probably targets the low-confidence people who can't bother to learn to do their own food.

Which brings me to all those people who barely ever make their own food, and buy their food pre-made.

What gives?

I will never understand people.

[Ghosty]

...Which brings me to all those people who barely ever make their own food, and buy their food pre-made.

What gives?

I will never understand people.

It's quick. It's easy. Cooking can be intimidating.

It was for me, until my now ex-wife pointed out, a la @bunsen_h upthread, that cooking wasn't conceptually different than the chemistry lab work I was already doing. Get a good cookbook---I like the Cooks Illustrated series---and do what they tell you until you learn enough to start doing it on your own.

Now, I cook enough to instantly see why adequate ventilation is essential for a kitchen, and not merely a good idea. So it goes; my next kitchen will have great exhaust fans.

[Goblin_Priest]

It's quick. It's easy. Cooking can be intimidating.

It was for me, until my now ex-wife pointed out, a la @bunsen_h upthread, that cooking wasn't conceptually different than the chemistry lab work I was already doing. Get a good cookbook---I like the Cooks Illustrated series---and do what they tell you until you learn enough to start doing it on your own.

Now, I cook enough to instantly see why adequate ventilation is essential for a kitchen, and not merely a good idea. So it goes; my next kitchen will have great exhaust fans.

Cooking is fairly easy. Especially in these days, with billions of recipes on the internet, and in books. I learnt to cook by myself, was never really shown before moving out. Sure, messed up a few times, but I also didn't really look for tips anywhere so a lot of the mistakes would have been avoidable.

Buying pre-made food is expensive and unhealthy. And did I mention expensive? Man, so people complaining about not having enough money, and dumping it all on fast food because they can't be bothered to cook...

[bunsen_h]

Un-spoilered:

Is there no chance Serini is related to Belkar or did they mention Serini's surname?

Her surname is Toormuck. That doesn't preclude their being related, of course.

I've got a slow cooker, but I barely ever use it. Honestly, I don't really see the appeal. I don't find it any less work than stove-top cooking.

They're useful for things that require long cooking at just-about-boiling temperatures. I've got a pot of a chick pea dish cooking right now; I started it last night, and it'll be ready for supper tonight. Stews, lower-grade cuts of meat, soups, etc. are all common uses.

[Malloon]

They're useful for things that require long cooking at just-about-boiling temperatures. I've got a pot of a chick pea dish cooking right now; I started it last night, and it'll be ready for supper tonight. Stews, lower-grade cuts of meat, soups, etc. are all common uses.

Yeah, we use ours all the time. Even when we're having something else for dinner there's usually something bubbling in the corner. They're a must if you want the most tender, succulent goulash you can imagine without standing at the stove for several hours.


My guess is: Serini on a footstool to reach the pot that allows her to make magic poisons or whatnot without being a wizard, wearing gloves. Probably Green. Wearing a cloak so we the Paladins don't recognize her before the big reveal next page.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[subtledoctor]

I can't get enough of these two together.

From the captor's height and the way the cloak is bundled near the ground, plus the use of magic (cauldron with magical runes, a room with no door, and invisibility) I call yuan-ti.

And probably a dragon for the orange-voice helper. (The helper is large and has 4+ appendages - it carried Lien and O-Chul by the legs, plus both of their weapons separately, while climbing or flying up the cliff.) (Plus we are in high-level play now, and it is appropriate that dragons be encountered for more than a 1-vs.-party fight.)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out.

After you do, some jokes in Bugs Bunny will make more sense.

[KorvinStarmast]

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation.

Dare I ask what the approprite PPE is for that lab, given the ventilation system? (for those not familiar with it ... PPE = Personal Protective Equipment in any facility with hazmat, etc)

After you do, some jokes in Bugs Bunny will make more sense.

Which is always a good thing.

[Peelee]

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation.

And everyone who played with you said "of course the chemist gave their dungeon a fume hood."

[WanderingMist]

Un-spoilered:

Her surname is Toormuck. That doesn't preclude their being related, of course.

The Order shows up and it's Serini, only for Belkar to exclaim, "Great-grandma Bitterleaf?! But we put you in a home!"

[bunsen_h]

Dare I ask what the approprite PPE is for that lab, given the ventilation system? (for those not familiar with it ... PPE = Personal Protective Equipment in any facility with hazmat, etc)
Which is always a good thing.

I don't remember. That might have been unspecified. The cleric could protect himself using something like Remove Disease, of course. There were lots of "do not enter!" warning signs up, which the minions were presumed to have obeyed on pain of pain, and which the adventuring party were expected to probably ignore.

And everyone who played with you said "of course the chemist gave their dungeon a fume hood."

It's been a long time, but my recollection is that I created the dungeon for a friend of mine to GM. He gave me the stats for the Big Bads, described the basic setup, and let me go have fun.

But yeah. Gotta have a fume hood.

The Order shows up and it's Serini, only for Belkar to exclaim, "Great-grandma Bitterleaf?! But we put you in a home!"

"And you thought I'd stay there?! I was probably out of the place before you were."

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which is always a good thing.

It's a sign of the genius of the Looney Tunes creators that they still make sense and are funny even after the references faded out.