The Falcon & Winter Soldier

[Palanan]

New trailer is out:

Spoiler

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The chemistry between these guys, or rather anti-chemistry, is hilarious. I wasn't expecting Agent 13, so that makes for a nice surprise. And I'm glad they'll be getting more mileage out of Zimo.

If WandaVision is surreal and meta-referential, this looks to be straight-up action with some international intrigue thrown in. Not likely to be as conceptually inventive as WandaVision, but there's a place for slam-bang action and antagonistic partnerships.

[Ramza00]

Did not like CA2 or CA3

I like these characters though. I just dislike the stories they are in. I think it is being born in the 80s and thus growing up in the 00s I can only take so much aughts energy about bad governments and so on.

I hope I like this show. I doubt it from the trailer for it seems more of the same.

—————

That is okay 👍 for I am being fed with WandaVISION. Everyone who hates that show please be fed in a reciprocal fashion with Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Given that WandaVision was originally supposed to come afterwards and the time frame I wonder how much craziness they can really get up to. Either this takes place in the three weeks or so between the Blip and WandaVision, or WandaVision isn’t going to ultimately be allowed to do anything immediately far-reaching - Wanda turning supervillain and swearing revenge on SWORD could be doable but mutants spontaneously appearing everywhere or the moon turning into cheese not so much.

[Kitten Champion]

Given that WandaVision was originally supposed to come afterwards and the time frame I wonder how much craziness they can really get up to. Either this takes place in the three weeks or so between the Blip and WandaVision, or WandaVision isn’t going to ultimately be allowed to do anything immediately far-reaching - Wanda turning supervillain and swearing revenge on SWORD could be doable but mutants spontaneously appearing everywhere or the moon turning into cheese not so much.

Honestly, that feels like a weird expectation to have from a streaming show. Like, I expect WandaVision and this to give some context to later events and characters - I fully expect Monica Rambeau to be in any Captain Marvel sequel, for instance - but using it for something as world-changing as introducing Mutants I think would be considered unfair for those outside the Disney+ subscription-base.

What's weird for us viewers in 2021 is that these Disney+ shows were supposed to be working concurrently with the movies and whatever they were going to do to move the universe forward, but at the moment they're kind of replacing them. I think that's put more emphasis on them than they were intended to have.

[Mechalich]

What's weird for us viewers in 2021 is that these Disney+ shows were supposed to be working concurrently with the movies and whatever they were going to do to move the universe forward, but at the moment they're kind of replacing them. I think that's put more emphasis on them than they were intended to have.

Maybe, but the movies that would have happened in 2020 or early 2021 in a non-Covid timeline were Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals. I wouldn't exactly consider Black Widow or Shang-Chi are big Phase 4 movers and shakers. So it really all comes down to Eternals, which, admittedly, could have been the big setup film that we're missing.

[Ramza00]

Given that WandaVision was originally supposed to come afterwards and the time frame I wonder how much craziness they can really get up to. Either this takes place in the three weeks or so between the Blip and WandaVision, or WandaVision isn’t going to ultimately be allowed to do anything immediately far-reaching - Wanda turning supervillain and swearing revenge on SWORD could be doable but mutants spontaneously appearing everywhere or the moon turning into cheese not so much.

Kevin Feige and the other talent in this "collaborative" project that is the MCU are pretty good adapters on the fly. These stories are not pre-written and pre-plotted but are adapted in a very "improvisation" type of way.

They have the skillset, organization, and most importantly the "group understanding" that allows them to stick the landing even if its always doing improv. I wish that could be the same for other big tentpole Disney properties such as the Star Wars franchise which has demonstrated over several movies that they do not have this understanding, organization, or skill set. (I am not talking about the final projects I am also talking about the shoots themselves, firing directors, massive rewrites, etc where they do not know what they want themes / styles, etc and they did not stick the landing in several movies.)

Hopefully though we can get less concrete and green screen in the future Phase 4 and Phase 5 projects.

[Kitten Champion]

Maybe, but the movies that would have happened in 2020 or early 2021 in a non-Covid timeline were Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals. I wouldn't exactly consider Black Widow or Shang-Chi are big Phase 4 movers and shakers. So it really all comes down to Eternals, which, admittedly, could have been the big setup film that we're missing.

I think - or at least I think people like Kevin Feige think - if it's that big of a change in the setting, it would be something accessible to people in the global market. I don't believe Disney+ has had a launch in Asia, which is unquestionably a massive market especially for the MCU specifically. So, no, I don't think they'd greenlight something huge like that without attaching it to a movie at minimum. Regardless of the magnitude of the film it's actually in.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Kevin Feige and the other talent in this "collaborative" project that is the MCU are pretty good adapters on the fly. These stories are not pre-written and pre-plotted but are adapted in a very "improvisation" type of way.

There is a BIG difference between re-writing a script before anyone has done anything with it and doing so after it’s already started filming. And recall that both series started filming before the pandemic hit.

They could cut existing references in WandaVision the refer back to Falcon and Winter Soldier to make up for it coming out first. They could probably sneak in something quick like ‘oh, Agent So-and-so isn’t available, s/he’s dealing with something in Westview’ into Falcon and Winter Soldier to tie back to WandaVision. Neither of those options would require huge amounts of retooling. But huge numbers of people randomly getting wings/spikes/blue fur? The Hex engulfing all of planet Earth? Not going to happen mid-Falcon and Winter Soldier, because they’ll already have the main story arc planned out and partially filmed.

[Ramza00]

*shrug*

I feel less interested when things are going to threaten the entire planet. But one town on the other hand, that may actually happen.

There is probably a better OOTS comic to demostrate this point but this one springs to mind.

Spoiler: 584 Improbable Causes

Show

It is TV, the only time planet ending stuff may happen is in an Avengers movie, and even then it is too profitable to do that so it is never going to happen. Stakes are about character moments, tensions, etc.

[Murk]

Did not like CA2 or CA3

I like these characters though. I just dislike the stories they are in. I think it is being born in the 80s and thus growing up in the 00s I can only take so much aughts energy about bad governments and so on.

By now, I thought I was the only one who ranks CA2 and CA3 very low on the MCU movies scale. Glad to see I'm not alone.

The reason you mention is part of it - though for me a big part was also that I did not find these two characters particularly interesting. I found the Falcon to be a bland sidekick, and Bucky didn't actually have that much of a personality to begin with.

So that makes me... cautiously interested in the series. On the one hand, I'm not interested in its two main characters so far. On the other hand, that's a great opportunity to make them interesting - so it has great potential.

[KillianHawkeye]

It is TV, the only time planet ending stuff may happen is in an Avengers movie

I'm pretty sure the world almost ended a couple of times on Agents of SHIELD.

[Kitten Champion]

I'm pretty sure the world almost ended a couple of times on Agents of SHIELD.

It did end, in fact.

[KillianHawkeye]

It did end, in fact.

Yeah, but there was a little bit still left.

[Ramza00]

I'm pretty sure the world almost ended a couple of times on Agents of SHIELD.

Does the Elijah Wood / Frodo face where he is talking to Gandalf in the very first movie. But instead of us saying “Keep your secrets”, it is me saying “Sure” when you tell me the world was truly going to end and you felt it in your bones. The “Sure” is full of mirth and is not sarcastic.

[KillianHawkeye]

Does the Elijah Wood / Frodo face where he is talking to Gandalf in the very first movie. But instead of us saying “Keep your secrets”, it is me saying “Sure” when you tell me the world was truly going to end and you felt it in your bones. The “Sure” is full of mirth and is not sarcastic.

Wtf are you talking about? It's a TV show. The real world wasn't going to end. Plot Twist: The world never actually ends.

[Ramza00]

Wtf are you talking about? It's a TV show. The real world wasn't going to end. Plot Twist: The world never actually ends.

Then why do I care if WandaVISION or Falcon and the Winter Solider comes first? You said I should care for it "signifies" they are not going to do a FAKE world twist. Well I told you the chances of that happen are NIL before all this.

[Psyren]

Given that WandaVision was originally supposed to come afterwards and the time frame I wonder how much craziness they can really get up to. Either this takes place in the three weeks or so between the Blip and WandaVision, or WandaVision isn’t going to ultimately be allowed to do anything immediately far-reaching - Wanda turning supervillain and swearing revenge on SWORD could be doable but mutants spontaneously appearing everywhere or the moon turning into cheese not so much.

Given that WV leads directly into a main-line movie (DS2:MOM) I find the idea that nothing far-reaching can come of it to be... odd.

As for Falcon and WS - More than anything I see it as an opportunity to showcase some of the MCU's more mid-tier or even street level threats, but with movie-level budgets and talent. Think of some of the Netflix Marvel's more ambitious attempts at this, like The Hand or AIM or Roxxon, but with greater-than-shoestring resources and the ability to draw from the entire canon. The trailer alone is showing us a lot more spectacle than we'd ever see in something like Daredevil or Cloak & Dagger, and I'm excited for more.

[KillianHawkeye]

Then why do I care if WandaVISION or Falcon and the Winter Solider comes first? You said I should care for it "signifies" they are not going to do a FAKE world twist. Well I told you the chances of that happen are NIL before all this.

I have honestly no clue what you're talking about. I didn't say any such thing. I only disagreed with your statement that the world can only be endangered in an Avengers film.

[Clertar]

Given that WV leads directly into a main-line movie (DS2:MOM) I find the idea that nothing far-reaching can come of it to be... odd.

To be fair that's what us the "fanbase" have guessed. But things look different when you look in from the outside, we still need to know how all of that will play out.

[Gallowglass]

To be fair that's what us the "fanbase" have guessed. But things look different when you look in from the outside, we still need to know how all of that will play out.

While I wouldn't put it past Marvney and their bottomless pockets to pay for Benedict Cumberbatch to make a cameo at the end of Wandavision, I'm not expecting it.

I'm expecting the tie in to be Wanda being sent to Dr Strange for training and rehabilitation at the end of the series, so she can be his apprentice/sidekick/foil in the 2nd movie.

If there IS a connection between the plots in Wandavision and DS2:MOM (love that acronym) then it will be the "bad guy" who is psuedo manipulating Wanda (possibly Nightmare?) being revealed as being working for whoever the big bad is in MOM (mordo, dormammu, someone else)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gallowglass
While I wouldn't put it past Marvney and their bottomless pockets to pay for Benedict Cumberbatch to make a cameo at the end of Wandavision, I'm not expecting it.

Agreed, but beyond this, I doubt if Cumberbatch would want to make a token appearance at the tail end of someone else's series.

[Dire_Flumph]

Agreed, but beyond this, I doubt if Cumberbatch would want to make a token appearance at the tail end of someone else's series.

I believe MoM has been filming since late last year. A quick scene made for WandaVision could easily have been done as part of that. Same as the X-Men side room cameo in Deadpool 2 as Dark Phoenix was filming at the same time.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Agreed, but beyond this, I doubt if Cumberbatch would want to make a token appearance at the tail end of someone else's series.

He did show up for a short appearance in Thor: Ragnarok though.

[Psyren]

While I wouldn't put it past Marvney and their bottomless pockets to pay for Benedict Cumberbatch to make a cameo at the end of Wandavision, I'm not expecting it.

a) He doesn't have to for the two to be connected. She could just get a business card with the Sanctum Sanctorum's address on it or something for all we know.
b) As Kareeah pointed out, he's clearly not above a cameo as we saw in Thor 3.

I believe MoM has been filming since late last year. A quick scene made for WandaVision could easily have been done as part of that. Same as the X-Men side room cameo in Deadpool 2 as Dark Phoenix was filming at the same time.

^ This too

[Palanan]

New spot, with the MCU's definitive take on wizard vs. sorcerer:

[Psyren]

Every trailer actually makes me more excited to see this. They're clearly up against metahumans, not just the spy vs spy/buddy cop street-level stuff I was expecting.

[Dire_Flumph]

New spot, with the MCU's definitive take on wizard vs. sorcerer:

Pfft. Any Marvel Super Heroes player could tell you that list is missing "Altered Human".

[Kareeah_Indaga]

All in favor of getting Dr. Strange a hat, say ‘Aye!’

[Clertar]

Pfft. Any Marvel Super Heroes player could tell you that list is missing "Altered Human".

Or Carbon

[Ramza00]

Pfft. Any Marvel Super Heroes player could tell you that list is missing "Altered Human".

The clip today is much better with a longer version of the scene with no edit points.