The Falcon & Winter Soldier

[Mechalich]

I would really, really hope they would move past Sharon in a movie, and let her be a low-level shadowy figure in the Disney+ side of the MCU.

Visual recognition. Using a previously established cast member is a way to signal 'this person who just showed up is important' to the less immersed segment of the audience. It's weak sauce, but it works (this is one of the many reasons no one ever actually dies in comics and comic-derived properties).

As for Walker, I’m wondering if they’re considering a USAgent series for Disney+, since they’ve now positioned him as a grey-area operator with a sinister sponsor. Given the wobbly nature of the character arc, that might seem unlikely, but spinoff series have been spawned from less.

Wyatt Russell is a journeyman actor who's been bouncing around Hollywood in relatively small roles for most of a decade. This is his first really big time role. He's fine as Walker - I don't think anyone was complaining about the performance - and as such adds relatively cheap and highly available superhero to the Marvel stable. That's a valuable asset considering Disney's plan to churn out ever more Marvel content, especially on streaming. For example, US Agent is an ideal character to show up in Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Secret Invasion, and the unnamed Wakanda show - all of these are supposedly in some stage of production- as either a temporary ally or antagonist. He'd also make a lot of sense in theoretical properties like Black Widow 2, Shang-Chi 2, a Hulk film, and a number of others. Obviously he won't do all of these things, but I can see Marvel getting a lot of mileage out of him even without giving him his own show.

[Psyren]

I'm guessing USAgent will show up on either a Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers team. More likely the latter since the former's most logical leader would be Zemo himself, and he absolutely hates super soldiers (Bucky excluded.)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mechalich
For example, US Agent is an ideal character to show up in Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Secret Invasion, and the unnamed Wakanda show - all of these are supposedly in some stage of production- as either a temporary ally or antagonist.

True, but his own show would enhance his recognition, and thus the profile of some of the lesser-known shows he might appear in. Rather than being “that guy who’s not Captain America in one episode of the other guy’s show,” he would be “USAgent guest-starring in Moon Knight,” which would be more of a draw.

He’s also a much cheaper option, both in terms of the actor’s name and the character’s abilities. Tatiana Maslany is no stranger to CGI, but her show will probably need more of a budget to accommodate all her hulking out. USAgent just needs a new shield and a shave.

Originally Posted by Mechalich
He'd also make a lot of sense in theoretical properties like Black Widow 2, Shang-Chi 2, a Hulk film, and a number of others.

Possibly, but for the average moviegoer he’d be extremely obscure—unless his profile was raised by his own show beforehand.

I don’t watch much mainstream TV, but here lately I’ve been inundated with Falcon & Winter Soldier commercials. Even a small advertising campaign around a limited series of his own could improve his recognition ahead of a major movie appearance.

[Rakaydos]

True, but his own show would enhance his recognition, and thus the profile of some of the lesser-known shows he might appear in. Rather than being “that guy who’s not Captain America in one episode of the other guy’s show,” he would be “USAgent guest-starring in Moon Knight,” which would be more of a draw.

He’s also a much cheaper option, both in terms of the actor’s name and the character’s abilities. Tatiana Maslany is no stranger to CGI, but her show will probably need more of a budget to accommodate all her hulking out. USAgent just needs a new shield and a shave.



Possibly, but for the average moviegoer he’d be extremely obscure—unless his profile was raised by his own show beforehand.

I don’t watch much mainstream TV, but here lately I’ve been inundated with Falcon & Winter Soldier commercials. Even a small advertising campaign around a limited series of his own could improve his recognition ahead of a major movie appearance.

In this case, the actor's profile matters less than the narrative role he's filling in the other series. He's basically phase 5+ equivilant of Phase 1 Agent Sitwell, an ass of a reccuring character who other characters need to work with or work around, and just enough plot armor that fighting him isnt the right answer.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

He’s also a much cheaper option, both in terms of the actor’s name and the character’s abilities. Tatiana Maslany is no stranger to CGI, but her show will probably need more of a budget to accommodate all her hulking out. USAgent just needs a new shield and a shave.

There’s also the in-universe power level to consider. ‘Super soldier’ is just powerful enough that Walker could plausibly tip the scales for whichever side he joined without instantly blowing the opposition out of the water, and by extension destroying all tension. It’s also a general enough powerset that it’s not going to require a plotline tailored to using it.

Compare him with Carol, who could end most fights as soon as she joins them and is therefore written out almost as quickly. It’s why I don’t get terribly excited when the Marvel management starts bragging about how powerful any given new hero is.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Compare him with Carol, who could end most fights as soon as she joins them and is therefore written out almost as quickly.

Yeah, “busy in space” seems to be the permanent excuse for why she didn’t end most of Phases 1 and 2 in the first ten minutes.

Can she manage a hyperspace jump without needing a ship around her? That would give her a lot more territory to roam around in, as opposed to just, I dunno, hanging around the Oort Cloud or something.

[Cikomyr2]

There’s also the in-universe power level to consider. ‘Super soldier’ is just powerful enough that Walker could plausibly tip the scales for whichever side he joined without instantly blowing the opposition out of the water, and by extension destroying all tension. It’s also a general enough powerset that it’s not going to require a plotline tailored to using it.

Compare him with Carol, who could end most fights as soon as she joins them and is therefore written out almost as quickly. It’s why I don’t get terribly excited when the Marvel management starts bragging about how powerful any given new hero is.

Hey. Cosmic threats is a valid comic genre, and I am sure we'll see some of it in her next movie.

I don't see anyone complaining at how powerful Superman is in the Justice League movie. He too basically beat the boss just by showing up. And they had to justify writing him out of the plot.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Hey. Cosmic threats is a valid comic genre, and I am sure we'll see some of it in her next movie.

It's the 'had to justify writing them out of the plot' that is the problem. The kind of foes that would threaten War Machine, either version of Captain America, Bucky, Spider-man, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Black Widow - most of the rest of the heroes running around - Carol could destroy by sneezing hard. Right now there are only a handful of people Carol could team up with without completely overshadowing them in combat. Anyone else and it will be at most five minutes of cameo before she zips off to Xandar for donuts and coffee. Maybe the next Avengers/Avengers-equivalent film will be able to use her for more than that. But her potential for team ups right now is really low.

This is why John Walker is in a good spot, power-wise. If he were to show up as a supporting character in Carol's movie, there are lots of things he could do that could contribute to a plotline but wouldn't steal the spotlight from her - sneak a hostage out while she's in epic flashy combat, or listen in on bad guys to give her information later. He could organize an evacuation or hold a bandage over some poor person's bleeding wound. And if they really want him in the fight too hand him a space gun capable of hurting whoever-Carol-is-fighting. It's relatively easy to make him more useful if the situation calls for it, it's much harder to make her less useful without it coming off as contrived.

Maybe as we get more people in her tier the problem will go away as she gets more people she can fight beside without overshadowing them. But then you know they're just going to make a tier above that and have the same problem all over again with someone else. It's not really fixing the issue. So I don't get excited over upcoming super-powered heroes.

(I suspect this was a factor in making Wanda a villain; they now have an excellent reason for her not to show up to help the good guys and vaporize any bad guys in under thirty seconds.)

I never saw Justice League so I can't comment on that.

[Cikomyr2]

Well, in the MCU, which character have we seen that's in Powergirl's league?

-Maybe top-power Thor in Infinity War
-Wanda at the peak of her power in Wandavision

- Something something cheating Dr Strange

.... Anyone else?

[Psyren]

Hey. Cosmic threats is a valid comic genre, and I am sure we'll see some of it in her next movie.

I don't see anyone complaining at how powerful Superman is in the Justice League movie. He too basically beat the boss just by showing up. And they had to justify writing him out of the plot.

The issue here is that Clark lives on Earth, while Carol visits occasionally. The latter is a lot easier to write out when you want tension for the remaining heroes.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Well, in the MCU, which character have we seen that's in Powergirl's league?

-Maybe top-power Thor in Infinity War
-Wanda at the peak of her power in Wandavision

- Something something cheating Dr Strange

.... Anyone else?

Possibly Monica, now that she has her powers. The Vision. Maybe Hulk.

[Cikomyr2]

The issue here is that Clark lives on Earth, while Carol visits occasionally. The latter is a lot easier to write out when you want tension for the remaining heroes.

Yhea. Just like they write our Thor or Hulk when it's not convenient. Sorry, why is Captain Marvel especially egregious?

[Psyren]

Yhea. Just like they write our Thor or Hulk when it's not convenient. Sorry, why is Captain Marvel especially egregious?

I never said she was?
I was poking fun at Superman, not Carol.

[Rakaydos]

Ironman was reaching the "write out" level of power by Avengers Infinity war, and so is Wakanda as a whole- less for individual power and more for... utility, I guess. Wizard vs optimized barbarian type stuff.

Wakanda at least has the downside that, as a goverment, (even a "heroic" one), they can be restrained by things that would never work for an individual, while individual wakandans can still slip through, like the royal guards in FATWS.

Tony stark had to be written out permanantly, as he was approaching nation level utility with hulkbuster level power.

Vision was written out, but it's going to be interesting to see what they do with Cataract. Bruce doesnt want to fight, even if he's "smart hulk" now... Carol and Thor are both "in SPAAAACE!" (though Guardian Thor is going to have the same problems, but played for laughs both in his favor and against) and Strange is likewise dealing with "a bigger picture." Wanda may well be joining Strange in that bigger picture, either as an ally or antagonist.

[Cikomyr2]

Personally, when the writers said they were giddy about Carol Denver being so powerful is that it basically opened up the Cosmic Marvel Universe, where you can afford to have ridiculously powerful enemies like Galactus and its like.

[Dienekes]

Personally, when the writers said they were giddy about Carol Denver being so powerful is that it basically opened up the Cosmic Marvel Universe, where you can afford to have ridiculously powerful enemies like Galactus and its like.

I think that is part of the (admittedly overblown) problem. I'll accept Danvers and what the Marvel guys are going to throw at us. But I have never cared about Galactus. He's a boring villain. Same with Dormammu, Beyonder, and the like. Even Doom is more interesting when he's not going into his ultimate godly power state, and remains a still somewhat ridiculous science/dictator. I will admit I had a soft spot for Thanos, though. So there is wiggle room.

Most the fun of the Avengers style shows are just watching the characters bounce off each other and work their specific angle. And I'd say the first two Avengers movies didn't really handle it all that well. With the low powered guys getting token comments or action beats while all the important stuff was done by Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man. And when most of your favorite of the heroes are on the lower end of the power spectrum, hearing the hype up for the next big cosmic villain pretty much has me thinking that we're going to see my favorites getting relegated to McGuffin handing duty.

Now, it's not doom and gloom for me. The writing has been getting better at balancing them, I've felt. With Endgame giving pretty much all the surviving cast interesting things to do. But that was largely because that movie was "Oops all McGuffin." But it was still fun. I'm just tentatively curious how they're going to carry on the path of creating an ever widening gulf between the heroes powers without getting repetitive in how they handle the cast.

Also, as an aside. Don't people constantly complain about how powerful Superman is? I don't think that happened as much after the Snyder cut, because most of the people who watched it were already gung ho about sitting down to watch a 4 hour look into the mind of Snyder.

[Tyndmyr]

Hey. Cosmic threats is a valid comic genre, and I am sure we'll see some of it in her next movie.

I don't see anyone complaining at how powerful Superman is in the Justice League movie. He too basically beat the boss just by showing up. And they had to justify writing him out of the plot.

Really? Complaining about Superman being overpowered is...almost standard at this point. In the first edition of Justice League it was particularly bad, with Superman directly overshadowing most of the team to the point where they seemed utterly useless. The reshoot improved on that score to some degree, but things like Cyborg deciding to shoot Superman are still stupid. There's no reason that he should expect that to work.

Yhea. Just like they write our Thor or Hulk when it's not convenient. Sorry, why is Captain Marvel especially egregious?

The first two have at least been here all along, Marvel's a later addition, so it requires a fair degree of justification. Also, the other two have built in transportation limitations. Hulk doesn't have interplanetary travel at all, he moves at the speed of a good jump, and Thor has limitations on his travel. Capt Marvel does not, and can fly between planets basically on a whim. Her being offworld is significantly less of a limitation than it is for either of those two.

I think that is part of the (admittedly overblown) problem. I'll accept Danvers and what the Marvel guys are going to throw at us. But I have never cared about Galactus. He's a boring villain. Same with Dormammu, Beyonder, and the like. Even Doom is more interesting when he's not going into his ultimate godly power state, and remains a still somewhat ridiculous science/dictator. I will admit I had a soft spot for Thanos, though. So there is wiggle room.

Oof, yeah. Let's look at some of those galactic threats...Green Lantern had Parallax, FF has of course had Galactus, and both of those really sucked.

Dormammu worked in Dr Strange in the role he was in. That was really cool, but it mostly worked because it was a one off encounter that was inherently, well, strange. It built up the cthuluesque otherworldly nature of what Strange does. It would have worked far less well if he were the primary antagonist and they punched it out three times over the course of the movie.

Thanos works, but Thanos is, for all his power, ultimately fairly human. A powerful, warped human, definitely, but that's very different than punching space clouds or what have you. Probably the *best* otherworldly galactic threats we've had have been in the GotG franachise...and again, both at least somewhat humanized, albeit Ego FAR more so than Ronan. And thanks to the humanization, they don't require obscenely powerful heros. Peter Quil and company are obviously not on Capt Marvel's tier of power.

So, really, having a godlike puncher punching space god clouds just works really badly, and I don't see Captain Marvel enabling anything of use there. Good characters are good because they are interesting, not because they have power levels over 9000.

[Psyren]

Personally, when the writers said they were giddy about Carol Denver being so powerful is that it basically opened up the Cosmic Marvel Universe, where you can afford to have ridiculously powerful enemies like Galactus and its like.

And I'm okay with that. Granted, I do think Carol is a bit too powerful currently, and they'll have to keep writing her out of many situations if she stays at the level she's at, but at least there's a solid justification for them doing so when they need to.

It wouldn't surprise me though if they established her as being this far up the power scale baseline so that they can later depower her (Rogue anyone?) and still have her be able to go toe to toe with cosmic threats. Soloing Thanos and also one-shotting his flagship are pretty big deals after all.

I think that is part of the (admittedly overblown) problem. I'll accept Danvers and what the Marvel guys are going to throw at us. But I have never cared about Galactus. He's a boring villain. Same with Dormammu, Beyonder, and the like. Even Doom is more interesting when he's not going into his ultimate godly power state, and remains a still somewhat ridiculous science/dictator. I will admit I had a soft spot for Thanos, though. So there is wiggle room.

Most the fun of the Avengers style shows are just watching the characters bounce off each other and work their specific angle. And I'd say the first two Avengers movies didn't really handle it all that well. With the low powered guys getting token comments or action beats while all the important stuff was done by Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man. And when most of your favorite of the heroes are on the lower end of the power spectrum, hearing the hype up for the next big cosmic villain pretty much has me thinking that we're going to see my favorites getting relegated to McGuffin handing duty.

The point of a cosmic or force-of-nature villain isn't the villain itself, nor even the macguffin. it's about what the heroes are willing and able to do to stop them, showing rather than telling us what lines they are and are not willing to cross. We saw that with Thanos, where the heroes could have stopped him from amassing the stones easily by simply murdering Vision and destroying the Mind Stone before he arrived, or having Strange teleport into the sun with his etc. Similarly with the Time Heist, the heroes did as little damage as possible to the timeline they borrowed the stones from (minus the kerfuffle that will result in the Loki series) despite knowing there would be no consequences for their own timeline even if they went in guns blazing - because, again, that's who they are. Even the smaller choice Tony made in Infinity War, to not go back to Earth once they succeeded at taking control of Ebony Maw's ship, is a demonstration of his character.

"Dormammu, I have come to bargain" is one of the MCU's best boss fights, not because of what we learn about Dormammu, but because of what we learn about Stephen Strange. That's the power of a Dormammu story, and that's furthermore the power of a Galactus story. (That should have also been the power of an Apocalypse story, but Fox royally screwed that one.)

[Cikomyr2]

And I'm okay with that. Granted, I do think Carol is a bit too powerful currently, and they'll have to keep writing her out of many situations if she stays at the level she's at, but at least there's a solid justification for them doing so when they need to.

It wouldn't surprise me though if they established her as being this far up the power scale baseline so that they can later depower her (Rogue anyone?) and still have her be able to go toe to toe with cosmic threats. Soloing Thanos and also one-shotting his flagship are pretty big deals after all.



The point of a cosmic or force-of-nature villain isn't the villain itself, nor even the macguffin. it's about what the heroes are willing and able to do to stop them, showing rather than telling us what lines they are and are not willing to cross. We saw that with Thanos, where the heroes could have stopped him from amassing the stones easily by simply murdering Vision and destroying the Mind Stone before he arrived, or having Strange teleport into the sun with his etc. Similarly with the Time Heist, the heroes did as little damage as possible to the timeline they borrowed the stones from (minus the kerfuffle that will result in the Loki series) despite knowing there would be no consequences for their own timeline even if they went in guns blazing - because, again, that's who they are. Even the smaller choice Tony made in Infinity War, to not go back to Earth once they succeeded at taking control of Ebony Maw's ship, is a demonstration of his character.

"Dormammu, I have come to bargain" is one of the MCU's best boss fights, not because of what we learn about Dormammu, but because of what we learn about Stephen Strange. That's the power of a Dormammu story, and that's furthermore the power of a Galactus story. (That should have also been the power of an Apocalypse story, but Fox royally screwed that one.)

I am really wondering whats the world building they will do regarding SWORD and Fury and everything else.

Also, i like the Cosmic keystone plot that actually kicks off with Carol being depowered, so suddenly everyone she was so busy keeping in check have free reign.

[Dienekes]

The point of a cosmic or force-of-nature villain isn't the villain itself, nor even the macguffin. it's about what the heroes are willing and able to do to stop them, showing rather than telling us what lines they are and are not willing to cross. We saw that with Thanos, where the heroes could have stopped him from amassing the stones easily by simply murdering Vision and destroying the Mind Stone before he arrived, or having Strange teleport into the sun with his etc. Similarly with the Time Heist, the heroes did as little damage as possible to the timeline they borrowed the stones from (minus the kerfuffle that will result in the Loki series) despite knowing there would be no consequences for their own timeline even if they went in guns blazing - because, again, that's who they are. Even the smaller choice Tony made in Infinity War, to not go back to Earth once they succeeded at taking control of Ebony Maw's ship, is a demonstration of his character.

"Dormammu, I have come to bargain" is one of the MCU's best boss fights, not because of what we learn about Dormammu, but because of what we learn about Stephen Strange. That's the power of a Dormammu story, and that's furthermore the power of a Galactus story. (That should have also been the power of an Apocalypse story, but Fox royally screwed that one.)

Well yes, the story is never truly about the McGuffin. Which is part of why being relegated to McGuffin duty tends to be the most boring part of a story unless the writers are careful.

And testing the limits of the heroes is all well and good. But it's not exclusively in the purview of the force of nature villain. Or more accurately, it's not in the purview of the Grand Cosmic Being villain. Take the Joker. He often gets stories about what lines Batman is willing to cross to stop him, but at least the Joker is fun to watch. And certainly you can make the case that the Joker is a force of nature villain, as he's a mouthpiece for chaos, or entropy, or the darkness within the human mind, or a bunch of things he's been used as over his history.

But really he's a guy in a suit with a gimmick. Whose abilities are established in such a way that really anyone in the core Batman family can go toe to toe with him. Allowing them to have engaging and personal interactions with him. Even if he has been shall we say overused over the years.

Or if we just want to use MCU villains, Zemo tested the limits of Steve and Tony quite well. Showing what lines they were able to cross and how to get them in conflict with each other. He was actually one of my favorite of the movie villains even before F&WS fleshed him out a bit more.

The Dormammu scene with Strange was great. But as you said, it wasn't because of the audience caring at all about Dormammu. And honestly, I'm going to say that scene used Dormammu better than any of the comics I've read that used Dormammu as a villain. Which brings me back to shrugging when I hear people tote about the new cosmic level villain.

So we're left with, the Big Cosmic Villain tests the heroes in a way that other villains can also do. And tends to draw the focus to characters I'm usually less interested in and fight scenes that tend to devolve into big flashy lights and beams of energy rather than the good stuff like punches, kicks, guns, and perhaps a thrown shield or two.

Now again, I'm not saying that "Oh Galactus is here, therefore it will always develop in a way I don't like, hum dum, rabble rousing." These characters can be used well in ways I'll end up liking. But it is seldom because I am engaged with the villain at all, so I am not excited by the prospect of Marvel Cosmic all that much.

[Starbuck_II]

So we're left with, the Big Cosmic Villain tests the heroes in a way that other villains can also do. And tends to draw the focus to characters I'm usually less interested in and fight scenes that tend to devolve into big flashy lights and beams of energy rather than the good stuff like punches, kicks, guns, and perhaps a thrown shield or two.

Now again, I'm not saying that "Oh Galactus is here, therefore it will always develop in a way I don't like, hum dum, rabble rousing." These characters can be used well in ways I'll end up liking. But it is seldom because I am engaged with the villain at all, so I am not excited by the prospect of Marvel Cosmic all that much.

For DC, Superman had Mxyzptlk.
Dude was basically immortal and all powerful, Superman did try the energy beams and punch though.
Instead, he had to beat him with his wits (he can be stopped only by tricking him into saying or spelling his own name backwards (Kltpzyxm - "kel-tip-zix-um"), which will return him to his home in the fifth dimension and keep him there for a minimum of 90 days).

He first gets fooled when Superman asks what the word is and he says Superman would have thought him stupid enough to say "Klptzyxm", before realizing what has happened and being transported home.

Granted, a few times, Mxyz helped out Superman, he can't torment him if the enemy kills him after all.

[Psyren]

The Dormammu scene with Strange was great. But as you said, it wasn't because of the audience caring at all about Dormammu. And honestly, I'm going to say that scene used Dormammu better than any of the comics I've read that used Dormammu as a villain. Which brings me back to shrugging when I hear people tote about the new cosmic level villain.
...
Now again, I'm not saying that "Oh Galactus is here, therefore it will always develop in a way I don't like, hum dum, rabble rousing." These characters can be used well in ways I'll end up liking. But it is seldom because I am engaged with the villain at all, so I am not excited by the prospect of Marvel Cosmic all that much.

I guess this is the part that confuses me. The movies have shown that they can use cosmic level villains in interesting ways - more interesting even than the comics they come from. Yet you're somehow convinced, or at least expecting, that these same creators will reduce Galactus to a DBZ fight where we smash all our action figures together. It just doesn't follow, to me.

For DC, Superman had Mxyzptlk.
Dude was basically immortal and all powerful, Superman did try the energy beams and punch though.
Instead, he had to beat him with his wits (he can be stopped only by tricking him into saying or spelling his own name backwards (Kltpzyxm - "kel-tip-zix-um"), which will return him to his home in the fifth dimension and keep him there for a minimum of 90 days).

He first gets fooled when Superman asks what the word is and he says Superman would have thought him stupid enough to say "Klptzyxm", before realizing what has happened and being transported home.

Granted, a few times, Mxyz helped out Superman, he can't torment him if the enemy kills him after all.

Eh, I view Mxy as more of a puzzle boss one-shot monster. Think Q from Star Trek - interesting for an episode or three, not really the kind of villain I can see a movie being made around unless there's another villain in the mix too, e.g. Luthor/Braniac kidnapping him and stealing his powers or something.

[BRC]

I guess this is the part that confuses me. The movies have shown that they can use cosmic level villains in interesting ways - more interesting even than the comics they come from. Yet you're somehow convinced, or at least expecting, that these same creators will reduce Galactus to a DBZ fight where we smash all our action figures together. It just doesn't follow, to me.

I mean, that's the thing about Cosmic Villains.

A Bad resolution is where you look at a villain that can't be punched, and punch it anyway.

A Good Resolution is one like Dormammu, where you use existing plot elements to find a clever solution to the problem, ideally with plot elements introduced naturally over the story.


So, it's easy to think of a BAD way to do Galactus as a villain (Captain Marvel does pew pew lasers and wins), but in imagine a GOOD galactus resolution, you basically have to write the whole film, which is more energy than I think any of us want to put into a forum discussion.

[Psyren]

I mean, that's the thing about Cosmic Villains.

A Bad resolution is where you look at a villain that can't be punched, and punch it anyway.

A Good Resolution is one like Dormammu, where you use existing plot elements to find a clever solution to the problem, ideally with plot elements introduced naturally over the story.


So, it's easy to think of a BAD way to do Galactus as a villain (Captain Marvel does pew pew lasers and wins), but in imagine a GOOD galactus resolution, you basically have to write the whole film, which is more energy than I think any of us want to put into a forum discussion.

I'm not asking anyone to write a good Galactus story. I'm asking them to trust that the folks who have shown they can write a good Dormmamu story will think of a good Galactus story.

I get that doomsaying is easier, but I don't see the point in it either.

[Dienekes]

I guess this is the part that confuses me. The movies have shown that they can use cosmic level villains in interesting ways - more interesting even than the comics they come from. Yet you're somehow convinced, or at least expecting, that these same creators will reduce Galactus to a DBZ fight where we smash all our action figures together. It just doesn't follow, to me.

They were able to use Dormammu more interesting than the comics for exactly one scene involving one character. Imagine that set up in a team oriented movie? How does Cap and Hulk deal with Dormammu? And I have tried very hard to reiterate that I am here to see what the MCU does next. Think of this not as a big problem, but as something that I am curious how they will get around.

It’s when statements get thrown out that Danver’s power allows them to scale up to cosmic threats that put me at a pause. 1, because as said, I don’t really find the characters interesting, though I will concede they can be used in interesting ways. Dormammu has his one scene. But 2, it implies her power is somehow an answer to cosmic threats. Which I don’t find interesting.

And again, this whole thing is not about “they shouldn’t do this.” And more “the announcement doesn’t excite me.” If they do it, I hope they do it well. I just am not jumping up and down going “Woo! Galactic!” I don’t care about Galactus.

I'm not asking anyone to write a good Galactus story. I'm asking them to trust that the folks who have shown they can write a good Dormmamu story will think of a good Galactus story.

I get that doomsaying is easier, but I don't see the point in it either.

There is a difference between doomsaying and expressing a general mild disinterest.

Like if they announced: next Spiderman movie involves Kraven the Hunter. I am in. I am ready to see Kraven’s Last Hunt. Let’s set this up and do this right.

If it says the next Spiderman movie is that the clone saga focused, I’ll watch it. I’ll see where it goes. But I’m not really sitting in rapt anticipation here.

[Psyren]

I guess I don't see the point behind "mild disinterest" either, but fair enough, you do you.

Speaking purely for myself, I am excited, because Marvel have by and large earned my trust. Even if all we end up with is a big gray villain who gets punched a lot, there will still be enjoyable character beats and teases for what is yet to come.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

So, it's easy to think of a BAD way to do Galactus as a villain (Captain Marvel does pew pew lasers and wins), but in imagine a GOOD galactus resolution, you basically have to write the whole film, which is more energy than I think any of us want to put into a forum discussion.

...Build a giant, planet-sized muzzle he can’t take off?

But yeah, we’d have to at least establish what his needs and limitations are to come up with a viable, non-lasers solution.

IIRC 616 Galactus needed to consume life energy, not the planet itself, so feeding him Pluto isn’t going to work. Maybe terraform a bunch of lifeless rocks into ‘farms’ with easily replaced animal life, and make enough of them so that by the time he’s eaten the life force of the last ‘farm’ the first one has been restocked. ...But you’d need the help of an alien empire or three to do the terraform thing, and the main conflict is getting them to agree to it.

I think there was different version of him that preyed on the ‘eggs’ of the Celestials, which just happened to be hidden in planets. That would be easy enough to solve, just move the egg someplace else. You even have the option of playing hot potato with it until it hatches if the MCU Celestials end up being good guys or the heroes don’t want to sacrifice it just on the basis that it might be evil later.

Ultimate version was a swarm of robot drones, but I don’t know much about them other than that. Computer virus maybe, ala Independence Day?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
Also, i like the Cosmic keystone plot that actually kicks off with Carol being depowered, so suddenly everyone she was so busy keeping in check have free reign.

I agree with this sentiment on its own, but it’s always been a little frustrating to me that there are apparently no other high-powered hero types roaming around the galaxies. Is Danvers really picking up the slack for absolutely everyone out there?

Seriously, let those Andromedans stand on their own five lalts for once.

Originally Posted by Dienekes
But it is seldom because I am engaged with the villain at all, so I am not excited by the prospect of Marvel Cosmic all that much.

Very much with you here.

One reason I liked Falcon & Winter Soldier is because it’s very street-level. People are worried less about the planet imploding than they are about being forcibly relocated to serve someone else’s political agenda.

I’m just…not that interested in uber-mega-intergalactic threats, partly because, again, I have trouble suspending my disbelief that one little planet out in the interstellar suburbs is the only planet able to generate beings capable of defending against those threats.

And partly because, call me silly or strange, I prefer heroes taking on more down-to-earth issues, at least by comparison to bad guys who slurp up galaxies or whatever.

Originally Posted by Dienekes
If it says the next Spiderman movie is that the clone saga focused….

Either I’m not getting a reference or the syntax is a little off here.

What clone saga? Focused on what?

[Rater202]

The lone saga is a referance to two separate but related Spider-Man stories.

The first is simple enough, a new Supervillain called The Jackal is trying to ruin Spider-Man's life and ultimately forces Spider-Man to fight a clone of himself, which seemingly dies and Peter, panicking, disposesof in the smokestack of an abandoned factory.

This storyline is noticiblye for introducing the Punisher, who as hired by the Jackal to assassinate Spider-Man.

The Jackal, real name Miles Warren, is a genticist and professor of Biology at Empire State university who tught the class attended to by both Peter Parker and Gwen sTacy, whom he had a secret, sexual obsession with.

when Gwen sTacy died, Warren decided to take revenge on Spider-Man for failing by experimenting with cloning and discovered Spider-Man's secret identity when he started using DNa stolen from his students in his experiments and his clones of Peter Parker ha d Spider-Man's powers.

However, most people who talk about the clone saga talk about an extended running storyline from the 90s.

A man called Ben Reilly shows up, proclaiming to be the clone from the previous storyline who survived... Except he thinks he might be the real Peter.

and they go back and forth or which one is the original and all kinds of real crazy bull**** happens and there's a Third Clone going around named Kane who is murdering people and Peter ends up on trial and this happens and that happens and it turns out that Norman Osborn had been enabling Warren to screw with Peter in revenge for Harry Osborn's death(which was the result of Harry taking an experimental variant of the goblin formula that reacted poorly to the drugs that Harry abused on and off for a while.)

This was not the original plan. The storyline dragged on for fricking ever, was rewritten several times in the writing, the ending was rushed, and everyone got really sick of the back and forth over which of the "Parker Brothers" was the original Peter Parker.

The concept has been revisited a few times since then and done much better, but the Clone Saga is a stain on Spider-Man's history.

...Though I think that they could do interesting things with Spider-Cide.

[Dienekes]

Either I’m not getting a reference or the syntax is a little off here.

What clone saga? Focused on what?

I did seem to add a few extra words. Let’s try again with even more words.

If I found out the next Spiderman movie is drawing from the amazing Kraven’s Last Hunt comics, a story about street level villain Kraven the Hunter trying to prove himself in the face of his upcoming death from cancer, while also exploring what makes Parker a good man and superhero, I would be excited because I like Kraven as a character and that story arc is widely regarded as one of the best in Spiderman history.

If I instead found out that the theoretical next Spiderman movie is taking inspiration from Spiderman: Clone Saga an infamously overlong meandering mess filled of half-baked or terrible ideas, villains whose motivations made no sense, and grotesque character retcons, I would still go watch it because the MCU is usually good with only a couple movies I don’t like and no movies I regret wasting time watching. But it is not high on my list of anticipated movies.

In that same vein, I’ll still go see Avengers V: Galactus Is Hangry, because of brand loyalty to the MCU and curiosity what they’ll do with it. But it’s not something I’m actively excited for.