New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 723
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Bucky with a first edition of the Hobbit a full year before its first American printing.

    My respect for you has grown.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier


  3. - Top - End - #33
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    After they put out the press release, the healing can begin.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Feb 2015

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    I wonder if there is any influence from the 1985 film, The Falcon and the Snowman? Or do we need a fan film entitled The Winter Soldier and the Snowman?

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Clertar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ockham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    I wonder if there is any influence from the 1985 film, The Falcon and the Snowman? Or do we need a fan film entitled The Winter Soldier and the Snowman?
    Mentioning a 1985 film made me jump to wanting an MCU Ladyfalcon movie
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    First episode is out, and I loved it.



    Spoiler: Flight Club
    Show
    It was great to see Batroc again, even if he wasn’t up to his earlier fighting trim. He made up for it with the wingsuit run. Also, nice to see that he survived, giving us the option for a recurring low-level villain.

    He did seem to have an unlimited supply of helicopters, though, which made the sequence feel a little over-the-top. I also wonder why Falcon doesn’t have chaff or flares as an anti-missile defense, since that’s not the first time he’s had a swarm of missiles launched at him.

    And I'm trying to understand the nuances of the legality here. Falcon is involved because the US military can’t be connected to the operation...even though they’re driving around in standard-issue HUMVEEs on the edge of a highly contentious border. But under what authority is Falcon operating? Is he working with the Sokovia Accords, which he went to prison for violating? Is he working as a military contractor, as his conversation at the bank seemed to imply? Or is he operating as a completely free agent? Given that the Avengers Compound is a rubble-filled lake, do the Avengers even exist anymore?

    I can understand how it's convenient for them to leave these things vague, but there's a lot of questions this show could be answering, and I hope we hear a little more in future episodes.


    Spoiler: No Place Like Home
    Show
    Really enjoyed the exploration of Sam’s family and their history. I don’t know how much of this is from the comics, but it felt like time well spent. And I’m always glad to see the MCU get out of New York and into the rest of the country. (Yes, Marvel, there is a country out there beyond NYC.)

    As for Bucky, also interesting to see him working through things, but it felt a little contrived that his friend Yori was the father of one of his victims. Until that moment, I’d been thinking that Bucky and Yori could understand each other because they were both WWII veterans. For the friendship instead to be Bucky’s attept at making amends…seems a little disappointing somehow.

    And in both cases there’s the question of what these guys are living off of. Sam said he had contracts (probably some sort of consulting gig) but it’s a valid question whether he and the other Avengers had any kind of stipend from Stark or some other source.

    Bucky doesn’t seem to be doing much of anything other than attending psych sessions and hanging out with people who don’t seem to recognize him. And doing a little soft vigilante work on the side. Maybe he's surviving on a trust fund that's been accruing for the past ninety years?


    Spoiler: The New Guy
    Show
    And are we supposed to know who the new Captain America is? I’m wondering if I’m expected to recognize him.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-03-19 at 09:04 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: No Place Like Home
    Show

    And in both cases there’s the question of what these guys are living off of. Sam said he had contracts (probably some sort of consulting gig) but it’s a valid question whether he and the other Avengers had any kind of stipend from Stark or some other source.

    Bucky doesn’t seem to be doing much of anything other than attending psych sessions and hanging out with people who don’t seem to recognize him. And doing a little soft vigilante work on the side. Maybe he's surviving on a trust fund that's been accruing for the past ninety years?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Re: Sam’s family, my understanding from various reviews is that they actually lifted large parts of Anthony Mackie’s history for Sam. I also gather he’s a little annoyed they wouldn’t let him eat a crayfish on screen. Can’t say I blame him there, would it really have broken the budget Disney?

    Re: money, they both also have the added complication of having been on the run for however long it was between Captain America: Civil War and Infinity War. Even if Stark gave everyone a salary, I can’t see him continuing it after the airport battle.

    That said, they must have been getting money from somewhere, because Steve had his own apartment in Winter Soldier. Military back pay maybe?


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: The New Guy
    Show
    And are we supposed to know who the new Captain America is? I’m wondering if I’m expected to recognize him.
    Spoiler
    Show
    I believe he’s supposed to be US Agent, from the comics.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    Spoiler
    Show
    Re: Sam’s family, my understanding from various reviews is that they actually lifted large parts of Anthony Mackie’s history for Sam.
    Spoiler
    Show
    That’s outstanding, very cool.

    And yeah, not sure what the issue would be with his eating a crawdad on screen. The crawdad-rights contingent can't be that vocal.


    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    Spoiler
    Show
    That said, they must have been getting money from somewhere, because Steve had his own apartment in Winter Soldier.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Since Steve was on call for S.H.I.E.L.D. at the time, they probably covered his apartment, along with the apartment for the cute agent watching over him.

    Speaking of whom, I'm looking forward to Agent 13 showing up again. And I was glad to see Don Cheadle had a good part in this episode—not just a face in the crowd, but someone to actually interact with Sam.

    My unrealistic hope is that Spidey shows up at some point, since he was there when Falcon and Winter Soldier had their very first team-up. But Tom Holland is probably too much of a hot property to do that sort of thing.


    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    Spoiler
    Show
    I believe he’s supposed to be US Agent, from the comics.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Huh. Never heard of this one.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Huh. Never heard of this one.
    Oooh! Oooh! it's time for COMIC BOOK HISTORY!

    Spoiler: Captain America in the Comics!
    Show


    Captain America was created to punch Nazis.

    After WWII, they didn't really have anything to do with the character, since Nazis were gone, so they rebranded him as Captain America: Commie Smasher, a Cap for the McCarthy Era who hunted down communist spies lurking in our midsts.


    This take on Cap...didn't do very well. Especially after the Red Scare faded and McCarthy was disgraced.


    Soo, in the early Avengers comics, the Avengers discover Cap in ice. It was retconned that the 50s Captain America wasn't the beloved Steve Rogers, but some other guy named John Walker, who was appointed by/blackmailed the US Government (or something), impersonated Cap, and used the shield and star-spangled jumpsuit to pursue his own agenda.


    From what I can tell, John Walker has, with successive decades and reboots, been reworked into kind of "Captain America, but he kind of sucks", usually under the name U.S.Agent, operating as a solidly D-List Hero for the most part.

    Last edited by BRC; 2021-03-19 at 09:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Originally Posted by BRC
    Oooh! Oooh! it's time for COMIC BOOK HISTORY!
    Slow down, tiger.

    But interesting. Are we sure this is who this is?

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Slow down, tiger.

    But interesting. Are we sure this is who this is?
    Wyatt Russell is credited as playing John Walker, and he's the go to "Somebody is pretending to be Captain America", so probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Spotted the name in the credits, so that looks pretty certain.

    Just watched it again, enjoyed it just as much the second time around. Very on board with this.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    With these TV series (both this one and WandaVision), I have to wonder if the actors ever thought they would be doing TV series staring these characters.
    Member of the Giants in the Playground Forum Chapter for the Movement to Reunite Gondwana!

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    With these TV series (both this one and WandaVision), I have to wonder if the actors ever thought they would be doing TV series staring these characters.
    Paul Bettany apparently thought he was going to be fired when they brought him in to pitch WandaVision at him.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Saw it and I'm loving it so far. The high-flying action, the quiet moments, the examination of race in the MCU, I'm here for all of it.

    Dammit Tony, you couldn't set up a "hero fund?"

    Spoiler: New Guy
    Show
    John Walker is absolutely the captain america we need now - a guy so utterly horrible at it that we remember what really matters about the character, and why Sam (and/or Bucky) are eminently more suited to the role. The Azrael to Steve's Batman, the Raiden to Steve's Solid Snake, I could go on.


    Spoiler: Torres
    Show
    Sam's partner seemed pretty prominent. I don't know that we heard his first name, but if it's Joaquin, looks like we'll have the next Falcon.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ramza00's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Sometimes boys are shy, but other words can also work here besides shy.

    Spoiler: Links to a humor gif
    Show

    https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/stat...730987522?s=20

    sigh I can not figure out how to embed the gif so please click the tweet link.
    Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    I'm intrigued, outside of the fact that it's got the sense of visual spectacle that anyone who hasn't been to a movie in over a year hasn't really been able to experience, The Falcon & Winter Soldier has got a stewing pot full of [Current Year] hot-button issues compressed simply into a Superhero narrative. Which is sort of inevitable if you're dealing with the Captain America end of the MCU brand.

    While my predictions are usually 20% correct --

    Spoiler
    Show
    I'm going to guess right now that the Flag Smashers are a false-flag operation to give this new Captain America a deliberately ambiguous anti-nationalist "them" for him to win against. Much like AIM was trying to do with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 except with a more coherent strategy not coded in Middle Eastern terrorism but a non-national, non-religious, quasi-anarchist sect which will appeal directly to American's sense of patriotism. That, without a WW2 to fight, this new guy has to be seen doing something to validate himself beyond wearing the suit and holding the shield and this is tailor-made for his sudden appearance on the national stage.

    I suspect that the Flag Smashers superpowers are the same we'll see from this Captain America, as they got it from the same place. Maybe the Winter Soldier program since they've had more than enough time to go through Hydra's old stuff.


    Edit: On a weird-to-me note. I'm watching Once Upon a Time on Disney+, and I had totally forgotten that Sebastian Stan was the Mad Hatter in that. Were just at the point where he's relevant in the show in the first/second season. With us knowing generally where the series is going my roommate couldn't help but comment that they wished he was The Winter Soldier instead, a ruthless cyborg assassin would solve so many problems down the road.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2021-03-19 at 07:00 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2020

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    I'm going to guess right now that the Flag Smashers are a false-flag operation to give this new Captain America a deliberately ambiguous anti-nationalist "them" for him to win against. Much like AIM was trying to do with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 except with a more coherent strategy not coded in Middle Eastern terrorism but a non-national, non-religious, quasi-anarchist sect which will appeal directly to American's sense of patriotism. That, without a WW2 to fight, this new guy has to be seen doing something to validate himself beyond wearing the suit and holding the shield and this is tailor-made for his sudden appearance on the national stage.

    I suspect that the Flag Smashers superpowers are the same we'll see from this Captain America, as they got it from the same place. Maybe the Winter Soldier program since they've had more than enough time to go through Hydra's old stuff.
    I tend to agree, just because Marvel's clearly decided Govt = Evil is the gift that keeps on giving.

    However, so far I really enjoyed this episode, though nitpicks:

    Spoiler: Bucky Comment
    Show
    damn Bucky, did you learn nothing from Civil War? Don't engage with people who's family you murdered without telling them about it!


    Spoiler: Loan Comment
    Show
    The family stuff was very nice, but I really hate Marvel's tendency to solve hard questions by making the obstacle an *******. The funding problem here is significant because Sam at this point is a mercenary. Those contracts might be big money, but I got to wonder about death benefits and a bank ought to wonder too. Now, since the teller didn't know who Sam was, he obviously just didn't read the documents provided and is an *******. But even if he wasn't, investing in a business where the backer is a mercenary...is really risky. Especially since I got to imagine the entire Life Insurance industry basically vanished in the Snap.


    Spoiler: Money Comment
    Show
    Lots of chat in places about how Bucky and Sam are doing financially, with a big focus on Stark Industries, which I find weird as they've been fugitives for a couple years, then Snapped for five. If they had any assets, I assume they were frozen when they went rogue and distributed when they died.

    Bucky...actually may have a reasonable case for a pension and a LOT of backpay from the US military. I assume military pay continues while you're a POW and he arguably served a long time as a POW. Maybe even interest is required, don't know.

    Sam's harder. Honorable discharge way too early for a pension, then worked as a councilor in Washington DC (got to assume basically no savings given cost of living and likely salary). Then he works as an Avenger for two years, apparently making nothing [which actually makes sense to me, despite some complaints elsewhere. They've cut all ties to SHIELD and have no sponsor beyond Stark. Does anyone think they'd be set up with a salary and benefits like employees and that wouldn't mess up team dynamics? I mean you could try to do it, but...if I were Tony that would smell an awful lot like buying friends. Who exactly should be paying them? I mean they could do a go fund me, or get a sponsorship deal or something and probably earn a lot, but that seems a bit undignified for Sam.] They go on the run and end up in Wakanda, where T'challa puts them up but doesn't pay them [this also makes sense to me. Their whole thing at this point is independence from any constraint/oversight, they're hardly going to sign up to be Wakandan soldiers/government agents]. Then he's gone for five years and reappears and immediately takes a job as a mercenary. That's a bad structure for any financial stability, especially if you're unwilling to take any of the opportunities which presumably pour in every day, but are undignified.


    Spoiler: Shield
    Show
    This one actually annoys me. First, assuming Sam has the ability to just give the shield away (doesn't it belong to Wakanda? I thought the original was left behind in Civil War and the current model was Wakandan?) he didn't put any limits on that? A gift of that value (vibranium, rare, must be worth millions of dollars at least) would usually be done with some riders. Even if he wouldn't negotiate any sort of payment for himself, having an agreement in place is just basic sense? As someone at the museum ought to have pointed out to him.

    Second, no one told him? I realize we're going for shock value here, but this is the sort of thing that PR flaks are for. This has the potential to be a PR nightmare right at the launch of their thing and no one thought to check?

    ETA: Nope, Forgot that Cap's shield was shattered in the last battle. This is one he picked up in the alternate timeline/past, right? Was it ever even used by him? Other objections stand, but I don't think this Wakanda would have any claim on it.


    Spoiler: Borders
    Show
    Just because I'm a bad person...hey an Avenger who cares about international borders and sovereignty, but only because he's working for the US military...right. Okay. Sure.
    Last edited by ecarden; 2021-03-20 at 12:24 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by ecarden View Post
    Spoiler: Loan Comment
    Show
    The family stuff was very nice, but I really hate Marvel's tendency to solve hard questions by making the obstacle an *******. The funding problem here is significant because Sam at this point is a mercenary. Those contracts might be big money, but I got to wonder about death benefits and a bank ought to wonder too. Now, since the teller didn't know who Sam was, he obviously just didn't read the documents provided and is an *******. But even if he wasn't, investing in a business where the backer is a mercenary...is really risky. Especially since I got to imagine the entire Life Insurance industry basically vanished in the Snap.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Also wasn’t this not their first loan? I admit I am not a financial expert, but it seems to me a bank would be leery about loaning more money to someone who hasn’t paid back the previous loans yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by ecarden View Post
    Spoiler: Money Comment
    Show

    Sam's harder. Honorable discharge way too early for a pension, then worked as a councilor in Washington DC (got to assume basically no savings given cost of living and likely salary). Then he works as an Avenger for two years, apparently making nothing [which actually makes sense to me, despite some complaints elsewhere. They've cut all ties to SHIELD and have no sponsor beyond Stark. Does anyone think they'd be set up with a salary and benefits like employees and that wouldn't mess up team dynamics? I mean you could try to do it, but...if I were Tony that would smell an awful lot like buying friends. Who exactly should be paying them?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Truthfully I don’t really see Tony have an issue with ‘buying’ his friends - that’s basically what he did with Spider-man in Civil War. ‘Hey, Spider-kid, I see you’re dumpster diving for your superhero equipment, let me give you a new suit worth more than your entire house that you would never in a million years be able to afford on your own. Now will you come fight my ex-friend with me?’

    Also, I need to re-watch Iron Man 2, but isn’t Pepper the one running Stark Industries at that point? I can’t remember if she successfully gave back her position as CEO after Tony’s near-death experience. The money coming from Stark Industries and Tony just okaying the paystubs as a representative of same would be a rather different dynamic from Tony paying for everything out of pocket.


    Quote Originally Posted by ecarden View Post
    Spoiler: Shield
    Show
    This one actually annoys me. First, assuming Sam has the ability to just give the shield away (doesn't it belong to Wakanda? I thought the original was left behind in Civil War and the current model was Wakandan?) he didn't put any limits on that? A gift of that value (vibranium, rare, must be worth millions of dollars at least) would usually be done with some riders. Even if he wouldn't negotiate any sort of payment for himself, having an agreement in place is just basic sense? As someone at the museum ought to have pointed out to him.

    Second, no one told him? I realize we're going for shock value here, but this is the sort of thing that PR flaks are for. This has the potential to be a PR nightmare right at the launch of their thing and no one thought to check?

    ETA: Nope, Forgot that Cap's shield was shattered in the last battle. This is one he picked up in the alternate timeline/past, right? Was it ever even used by him? Other objections stand, but I don't think this Wakanda would have any claim on it.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Not sure where Steve got the replacement round shield from (I don’t think it was ever stated), but the Wakandan version was a completely different shape. The one they’re playing hot potato with is definitely not it.

    But concur otherwise. Maybe I’m just being heartless here, but if I’m supposed to get up in arms because the government didn’t do what Sam wanted them to do with the shield, then I feel like I should be getting up in arms because Sam didn’t do what Steve wanted him to do with the shield. But I’m not because the thing about giving things to people is that once you give it to them, it’s theirs, and they can do what they want with it. If I give you a cookie I may expect you to eat it, but you could throw it out or give it to someone else. If I give you a car, I may expect you to drive it, but there’s nothing stopping you from selling it or breaking it down into parts or wrapping it around a tree.

    I do acknowledge this is probably going to end badly, but that’s from a narrative perspective - we’re on episode 1 of 6, all other factors aside. But in isolation - wanting to make use of a major symbol of hope rather than have it gather dust after a major shakeup? That’s the sort of thing the hero usually does on purpose, not the sort of thing the hero facepalms over.

    Tl:dr - agree that if Sam wanted some say in what happened to it after it left his hands, he should have gotten it in writing.



    Quote Originally Posted by ecarden View Post
    Spoiler: Borders
    Show
    Just because I'm a bad person...hey an Avenger who cares about international borders and sovereignty, but only because he's working for the US military...right. Okay. Sure.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Might be a Sokovia Accords thing? No one’s trying to arrest him, so I’m assuming the rogue Avengers got amnesty or something, maybe he’s just trying not to rock the boat just yet?

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Spoiler: My Thoughts
    Show

    This week’s episode was unexpectedly good! I was expecting a lot of fanboying about the sAcRoSaNcTiTy of the shield and generic action scenes, but they got both things out of the way within the first ten minutes, so the rest was juicy character development.

    It’s absolutely hilarious to me when older people arrange dates for younger acquaintances, even though it’s kind of an Asian stereotype. Dunno, it’s funny. The Pinochle scene was amazing.

    The Yoshi thing in general is very sad, though. This is inevitably going to lead to a shock-reveal later in the show, isn’t it? Ugh.

    Flag-Smashers are cool. I was expecting Baron Zemo but Flag-Smasher works too, even though I only remember him for being like the only non-mythical character in the Marvel Universe who fights with a mace. I think his LMD was very badass in Sam Wilson’s original Captain America run?

    Looking forward to US Agent. In the comics John Walker was played off as a foil against Sam Wilson as a conservative partisan to a liberal one, which was really effective in exploring what Captain America is as a concept. Hope to see something similar here.

    Though they made Joaquinn’s backstory less overtly political. I believe the original was something to do with illegal immigration? He’s still a very interesting characters here, though.
    Last edited by Vrock Bait; 2021-03-20 at 09:34 AM.
    Spoiler: Total War
    Show


    As
    The Celestial Empire of Longshan

    Spoiler: Domination Victory
    Show

    Equinox League

    Red Aurora College - Fae of the Four Courts - Khalos Guild - Celestial Empire



    (Pretend there’s more spoilers here because I haven’t found the will to digitize my campaign setting yet)
    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我。

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrock Bait View Post
    Spoiler: My Thoughts
    Show

    Looking forward to US Agent. In the comics John Walker was played off as a foil against Sam Wilson as a conservative partisan to a liberal one, which was really effective in exploring what Captain America is as a concept. Hope to see something similar here.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Though I am not sure about the directorial choice of having him make a weird gurning face when he was revealed. Should have gone for the not-quite-really-there smile Anthony Starr does as Homelander

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Though I am not sure about the directorial choice of having him make a weird gurning face when he was revealed. Should have gone for the not-quite-really-there smile Anthony Starr does as Homelander
    Spoiler
    Show

    I don’t think he’s not there, though. John Walker is someone who believes in what he does.
    Spoiler: Total War
    Show


    As
    The Celestial Empire of Longshan

    Spoiler: Domination Victory
    Show

    Equinox League

    Red Aurora College - Fae of the Four Courts - Khalos Guild - Celestial Empire



    (Pretend there’s more spoilers here because I haven’t found the will to digitize my campaign setting yet)
    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我。

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Though I am not sure about the directorial choice of having him make a weird gurning face when he was revealed. Should have gone for the not-quite-really-there smile Anthony Starr does as Homelander
    Spoiler
    Show

    I think it’s just a proud smirk. But the way the helmet emphasizes his features makes him look like a troll doll.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    I'm a little confused about the Flag Smashers and their agenda.

    Spoiler: Flag Smashers
    Show
    We're told two things about them; that they believe that things were better during the Snap, and because of that they want a world without borders or nations. But...during the five years after the Snap, there were still borders and nations, right? I mean, granted, they've sort of glossed over that period so far and we haven't had much of a good look of what things were like. But I'm pretty sure the nations of the world weren't dissolved.

    So I''m not seeing the logic of how 'things were better during the Snap' leads to 'therefore, we need to a world without borders/nations.'

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    On Crawfishgate:

    I can believe that it would be a pain in the butt to get him eating a crawfish on screen. You need to boil a big pot of them if you're making them properly (that is, Louisiana style) for a start, and the resulting crawfish is covered in spices, seasoning, and oil that is exceptionally messy. People go through entire rolls of paper towels at crawfish boils. It's a messy food to eat when you're not on a film set. Keeping it fresh while filming? I wouldn't like to try it. Crawfish are also seasonal, meaning it might not be that easy to get them if they were filming at the wrong time of year.

    On General MCU stuff:

    I'm digging the new method of putting out stories. Previous Marvel TV shows weren't really part of the MCU - they mentioned the Avengers off fighting somewhere else, but the shows themselves were effectively set in an alternate universe. They didn't progress the movie storylines and felt noticeably cheaper. They weren't "real" MCU.

    The new shows are very different. They feature the actors from the movies. They advance movie storylines. In effect, WandaVision was Scarlet Witch's Title Movie, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier is going to do the same for Sam and Bucky. They're movies that have been decompressed into the form of a TV show.

    I think it's a vast improvement. The MCU movies could get a bit tiring after a while - 3-4 movies a year to keep up with was difficult, and it's hard to vary up the formula of a blockbuster movie. There's only so many ways to introduce and defeat a villain within the space of a few hours.

    The TV shows are going to let them be more experimental. Tell longer stories at a slower pace. There isn't the pressure to rush out to the cinema and catch it before you get spoiled. If this is how they do things going forward, I am totally here for it.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    I'm a little confused about the Flag Smashers and their agenda.

    Spoiler: Flag Smashers
    Show
    We're told two things about them; that they believe that things were better during the Snap, and because of that they want a world without borders or nations. But...during the five years after the Snap, there were still borders and nations, right? I mean, granted, they've sort of glossed over that period so far and we haven't had much of a good look of what things were like. But I'm pretty sure the nations of the world weren't dissolved.

    So I''m not seeing the logic of how 'things were better during the Snap' leads to 'therefore, we need to a world without borders/nations.'
    Spoiler
    Show

    It is actually possible that borders were dissolved during the time. Half of the world’s population is people who maintain infrastructure, necessary experts for infrastructure, people who produce the resources necessary for society, niche specialists, etc. It’s very likely that countries may have started banding together to centralize populations and trade specialists. With superheroes in the world, they’d probably encourage this and push for a one world government.
    Spoiler: Total War
    Show


    As
    The Celestial Empire of Longshan

    Spoiler: Domination Victory
    Show

    Equinox League

    Red Aurora College - Fae of the Four Courts - Khalos Guild - Celestial Empire



    (Pretend there’s more spoilers here because I haven’t found the will to digitize my campaign setting yet)
    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我。

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2020

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: No Place Like Home
    Show

    As for Bucky, also interesting to see him working through things, but it felt a little contrived that his friend Yori was the father of one of his victims. Until that moment, I’d been thinking that Bucky and Yori could understand each other because they were both WWII veterans. For the friendship instead to be Bucky’s attept at making amends…seems a little disappointing somehow.

    Spoiler: Old Man Yori
    Show
    It definetly is not a coincidence. I think Bucky actually befriended Yori in the hope of making amends, and the conversation with the waitress just scratched that wound bare and upset all the healing hes trying to achieve.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    Spoiler: Old Man Yori
    Show
    It definetly is not a coincidence. I think Bucky actually befriended Yori in the hope of making amends, and the conversation with the waitress just scratched that wound bare and upset all the healing hes trying to achieve.
    I thought that was to be reasonably assumed. It's just how the show chose to go about it ended with that as a reveal.

    Spoiler
    Show
    - Start with Bucky's context-less nightmare flashback first for the audience to reacquaint themselves with the idea that he was a Hydra assassin for decades

    - Then showing Bucky is deeply cut-off from the world and lonely with the sequence with his therapist and that he's doing this weird version of the 12 steps by confronting his victims.

    - Then we see he does apparently have this friendship with this old man, who turns out to be a grieving father, and Bucky even gets a date.

    - Then we see him bail on said date half-way while under some clear unstated anxiety.

    - Then we get the big reveal what was really going on all along, that the flashback was of the assassination of man's son and Bucky life is sadder than we were first led to believe as everything he's been doing there has just been seeking more penitence - in the aforementioned 12 steps-esque process - but he can't bring himself to actually pull the band-aid off, so to speak.


    Incidentally, watching Bucky being comfortable around people closer to his actual age kind of reminded me of Ultimate Captain America who spent most of his social life in veteran's halls and retirement homes. Granted Ultimate Cap was a pretty big a-hole and his unwillingness to move past his life in the 40's was - like a lot the Ultimate universe - played up to the point of making him excessively rigid and unrelatable.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2021-03-22 at 12:36 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    I'm a little confused about the Flag Smashers and their agenda.

    Spoiler: Flag Smashers
    Show
    We're told two things about them; that they believe that things were better during the Snap, and because of that they want a world without borders or nations. But...during the five years after the Snap, there were still borders and nations, right? I mean, granted, they've sort of glossed over that period so far and we haven't had much of a good look of what things were like. But I'm pretty sure the nations of the world weren't dissolved.

    So I'm not seeing the logic of how 'things were better during the Snap' leads to 'therefore, we need to a world without borders/nations.'
    I imagine the global crisis (including the sudden loss of various experts, specialists, etc) lead to a greater need for global cooperation, or at least more of a detente - fewer government-sponsored espionage efforts etc. Any number of active conflicts I can't elaborate in this forum would have likely ceased overnight as well. It's easy to see how some individuals/groups would have seen that as a positive.

    I expect that Marvel will do here something similar to what they did with Black Panther - "The villain raises a good point and actually has a reasonable objective, but their methods are too chaotic/destructive/violent and they can't be the ones to lead the way, so here's a more incremental way of moving toward that positive objective." More specifically, on the subject of nationalism we'll likely have a spectrum inhabited by the Flagsmashers at one extreme, US Agent at the other, and our heroes somewhere in the middle.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Clertar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ockham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Falcon & Winter Soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I expect that Marvel will do here something similar to what they did with Black Panther - "The villain raises a good point and actually has a reasonable objective, but their methods are too chaotic/destructive/violent and they can't be the ones to lead the way, so here's a more incremental way of moving toward that positive objective." More specifically, on the subject of nationalism we'll likely have a spectrum inhabited by the Flagsmashers at one extreme, US Agent at the other, and our heroes somewhere in the middle.
    The Falcon, in his gig as Captain America in the comics, had a take on patriotism very much oriented to social causes. The show seems to be going in that direction, and he will probably embody a synthesis of the two extreme positions: the thesis of extreme state patriotism of this new Captain America and the antithesis of the Flag Smashers. That would make Sam Wilson a constructive-patriotic version of the anti-system strife of the Flag Smashers.
    (Not unlike what MCU Steve Rogers went through himself, becoming a sort of anti Jack Ryan in the course of his post-freeze life.)
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •