Cleric elemental domains (PEACH)

[supercereal]

Hy everyone,

This is my version for the Water, Earth, Fire and Air divine domain for Clerics. You can see them at this link:

https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MSTbhQ2T_Nf-CcqXZyZ

What do you think in terms of theme and balance compared to the others cleric domains? You will notice that I tried to copy existing domains feature as much as possible to avoid something to op! I realize that elemental domains are not a new concept but I did not find a homebrew version for D&D 5e of all the four elements together.

Latest version after some suggestions and revisions: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MTLYXk5HyT5tVbQcJvE

[kosh49]

Overall this looks good to me. The Water domain needs some work, but the other domains only need small tweaks.

Water:
The spells are good.
The 1st level features are fine.
The 2nd level channel divinity is an interesting mix of the healing sub-theme and a water based effect.
The 6th level feature is OK, not sure this much should be stolen from the Life domain.
The 8th level features is standard, and makes sense given that this feels like a caster cleric.
The 17th level feature should be water based, not healing based.

Earth:
The 1st level features feel a bit strong. I would probably make the tremorsense last 10 minutes at let them use it Wisdom modifier times per long rest. I would also move the +1 AC bonus from the level 1 feature to the level 17 feature. Otherwise this looks good to me.

Fire:
I think is good the way it is. The 17th level feature might be a little thin, but immunity to fire damage is good enough that I would not want to add too much.

Air:
I would change Warding Wind to Wisdom modifier uses per short rest. Otherwise it looks good they way it is.

[supercereal]

Overall this looks good to me. The Water domain needs some work, but the other domains only need small tweaks.

Water:
The spells are good.
The 1st level features are fine.
The 2nd level channel divinity is an interesting mix of the healing sub-theme and a water based effect.
The 6th level feature is OK, not sure this much should be stolen from the Life domain.
The 8th level features is standard, and makes sense given that this feels like a caster cleric.
The 17th level feature should be water based, not healing based.

Earth:
The 1st level features feel a bit strong. I would probably make the tremorsense last 10 minutes at let them use it Wisdom modifier times per long rest. I would also move the +1 AC bonus from the level 1 feature to the level 17 feature. Otherwise this looks good to me.

Fire:
I think is good the way it is. The 17th level feature might be a little thin, but immunity to fire damage is good enough that I would not want to add too much.

Air:
I would change Warding Wind to Wisdom modifier uses per short rest. Otherwise it looks good they way it is.

Thank you for the input. For the water domain, I took inspiration from Avatar, in which waterbending is also associated with healing, maybe I can change the 17th feature but I can't think of any water based power appropriate for that level and the domain spells give a good control over water already.

For the earth domain, I will change tremorsense to WIS times per rest as it is a little too much. I think I'll move the +1 AC but to the 6th level (to be on par with the forge cleric).

I agree to fire being a little bit thin but I did not want to make it to OP.

For the Warding Wind feature I modeled it on the Light domain feature Warding Flare and I think they have overall comparable strenght, so I think I will leave it to WIS uses per long rest

[kosh49]

For water, I recognized the association of healing with the element of Water as something from Avatar. My issue is that in Avatar healing was a secondary theme for Water bending - not all Water benders were shown healing, and those who did did other things with water as well. For this class the 1st level feature is all about water, the second level feature mixes healing and water, the 6th level feature is all about healing, and the 17th level is all about healing. The result is this subclass feels like a healing themed subclass with a secondary theme of water, where it should feel like a water themed subclass with a secondary theme of healing.

In the Air domain, the description of the Warding Wind feature says it is useable a number of times equal to twice your Wisdom modifier per long rest. I assumed that was intentional and made a suggestion to make that less cumbersome by giving fewer uses that refreshed more frequently. Based on your response I now assume that this was not intentional and that you need to delete the word twice from the description. After comparing the feature to Warding Flare, I agree that Wisdom modifier uses per long rest is the correct number of uses.

[supercereal]

For water, I recognized the association of healing with the element of Water as something from Avatar. My issue is that in Avatar healing was a secondary theme for Water bending - not all Water benders were shown healing, and those who did did other things with water as well. For this class the 1st level feature is all about water, the second level feature mixes healing and water, the 6th level feature is all about healing, and the 17th level is all about healing. The result is this subclass feels like a healing themed subclass with a secondary theme of water, where it should feel like a water themed subclass with a secondary theme of healing.

I made some small changes to make it more watery. I replaced lesser and greater restoration as domain spells and added two cold damaging spell instead. I also changed the 6th level feature to synergize better with water spells: now you can heal allies when dealing cold or bludgeoning damage, and harm foes with cold or bludgeoning damage when you heal allies.

In the Air domain, the description of the Warding Wind feature says it is useable a number of times equal to twice your Wisdom modifier per long rest. I assumed that was intentional and made a suggestion to make that less cumbersome by giving fewer uses that refreshed more frequently. Based on your response I now assume that this was not intentional and that you need to delete the word twice from the description. After comparing the feature to Warding Flare, I agree that Wisdom modifier uses per long rest is the correct number of uses.

Fixed. New link here: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MTLYXk5HyT5tVbQcJvE

[kosh49]

This looks good. I really like the flavor of the new Ebb and Flow ability - doing minor cold/bludgeoning damage when heal or minor healing when you do go cold/bludgeoning damage really gives a back-and-forth feel that evokes the tides without being literal about it.

[Zaile]

Love what you're doing here. I want to play all of these.

I think all of these should get access to the summon elemental spell, but of their element only.

Water Domain

• This is the best and strongest one. I'd maybe add proficiency with the trident, glaive/halberd and scimitar (pirates!) for flavor reasons.
• Ebb & Flow currently says "deals damage...to a creatures" is that supposed to be "to a creature" or "to creatures"? This wording exists on both effects.
• The rest of my notes are to get the other domains closer to this one, seriously good job here.

Earth Domain

• Love the Tremorsense. I don't think there is currently a way to get this besides spells.
• I feel Athletics expertise would make sense in this domain as it's screams melee, but not sure what you could change for it.
• Earth Shield - This should be closer to Twilight cleric's channel. Right now this domain seems set to compete against it and it loses out b/c of this. Maybe 1d6+CL/turn or 2d6+1/2 CL/turn for 1 minute.
• Rock Solid - Stoneskin is crap, and you get that at 7th level. This ability is borderline useless by the time you get it. Everything that hits you at this level has magic attacks except swarms of mooks. Resistance to all damage for 1 minute for PBx per long rest could work, but the Barbarian does that from level 1. Maybe change this to a Earthglide ability like earth elementals or double proficiency bonus on DCs of your domain spells and spells that change, move, erupt, shake, create or summon earthly things?

Fire Domain

• Martial Weapons are good, but I'm not sure about heavy armor. This looks to be a blaster
• Blessing of flame - Instead of "your next" change to "one ability check you make before your next rest"
• Divine strike - This is a melee ability on a blaster. Change this to Radiant Soul from celestial warlock
• Fire Soul - Kinda weak for a capstone, even if it damaged the foe's armor and weapons. But what to replace it with? Wildshape as a druid 1/rest into only a fire elemental (and still be able to cast)? Spend a channel to get concertation-free heat metal on up to PB items/weapons/armors creatures damaged by your fire spells have?

Air Domain

• Glad you avoided the temptation to make this like Tempest.
• I'm very tempted to tell you to have this remove cleric armor proficiencies and replace it with Monk Unarmored Defense. Very tempted.
• Warding Wind - Make this "As a reaction, you cast warding wind spell centered on yourself, but it only lasts until the beginning of your next turn."
• One With the Wind - Needs to be a bit stronger, especially for an Action. Rogues can do this at 2nd level as bonus action without spending a channel and +2 AC for not even a full round is... meh. How about something closer to "For 1 minute you bless yourself and a number of additional creatures within 30' equal to your PB with the blessings of the zephyr. The blessed creatures do not provoke attacks of opportunity and gain a +2 bonus to AC unless they are grappled, restrained, or incapacitated." Maybe even add "ranged attacks them have disadvantage."
• Improved warding wind - change to "can use...centered on any creature within 30' you can see." to match above change.
• Airborne or Air-Born? - The avatar bender that could fly could do it in tight spaces and underground, but I get the limitation. Perhaps "unless in areas with ceilings lower than 10 feet?". If you use Unarmored defense, any armor prevents using this ability.

All-in-all really good!

Edit: Now that I look at it again, every capstone could be an elemental wildshape into that type of elemental. You gave each domain similar effects with all already except for water.

[MrStabby]

Firstly I love these. I am going to try and be really, really fussy here though.

All: wording needs a bit of tidying up - not really a content thing though, but that it stands out is a sign as to how polished the rest of it is.


Water
Generally very good. Ebb and Flow seems very strong but balanced by the friendly fire aspect of it. I do worry that it might aggrevate you team mates and it does undermine the healing element of it to be immediately undoing some of the healing you are doig by inflicting damage. Likewise whenever you damage an enemy, if you then heal it back up again with your ability it feels a bit counterproductive.

On the other hand, the effects are big. 2+spell level healing is like a mass healing word for free on a lot of spells. I would be inclined to ask for creatures to use their reaction to benefit from this but to make it creatures you select. I.e. less friendly fire/hostile healing but then you can't recover your whole downed party by blasting an enemy as it won't work on incapacitated enemies.


I really like this domain as it actively encourages you to play into your domain and does well for bringing out the healing element of clerics. I think it has a really good blaance of playing a bit differently to other clerics (you can't miss the effects of Ebb and Flow) and feel unique, whilst also really making good use of the base cleric class.




Earth

Every element of this domain is fine in isolation... my concern is that it might be a bit boring to play; everything is a little bit passive. Not entirely passive, but leaning that way. Gain tremorsesne for a while, gain temp HP, advantage on some saving throws and AC boost, then damage resistance... everything is very defensive.

I would consider something like granting a different channel divinity at 6th level as well - something pro-active. Maybe stunning enemies with a melee attack or something?



Fire

There are a few balance issues here I think. Destructive wrath is a bit much. I get the comparison with tempest cleric, but shatter and fireball are in different leagues when it comes to base spells.

Fire soul: "When you deal fire or radiant damage with a spell, a nonmagical object that isn’t being worn or carried also takes the damage if it’s in the spell’s area." - not quite sure what is intended by this.

I was setting myself up to not like this as it seemed to overlap a lot with the light domain, but the focus on the martial rather than the casting really helps differentiate it. I wonder if you could make the channel divinity a more martial ability (like the death domain cleric) to help differentiate the two?



Air

Warding wind as an ability has the same name as the spell. To avoid confusion consider a rename?

The channel divinity seems pretty bad. Use an action to give +2AC to your whole party? OK, but it lasts until the end of their next turn. Those going immediately after you will only get a benefit against attack of opportunity and enemies can attack allies for whom the warding effect has worn off. If you were to have an ability to protect allies I would look to something more like the glamour bard's use of bardic inspiration to get your allies out of trouble with no opportunity attacks or even something that blows enemies away. +2 to AC is the kind of bonus that is big over a day but as a bonus that expires after a round - it is a lot more modest.

I am struggling to get my head round this particular class - the leaning with things like Zephyr Strike (awesome thematic spell) leans towards a weapon focussed class, but then things like potent cantrip lean the other way. I see a lot of... OK support/protection abilities but I worry that the options will see little play as the cleric's base uses of conentration are probably better under almost all circumstances. Warding wind (ability not spell) is also usable a few times per day, so I could feel that the subclass would feel absent a lot of the time - situational abilities, spells less used... I could imagine that some days you could go through without using most of your class abilties at all. I think this class could benefit from an ability that is going to see a lot of use, day after day to reinforce the class identity.

If you look at the other domains there are usually some abilities you get realtively early that can really make an impact - so nature getting ability to give anyone resistance or the transformative druid cantrips, or life cleric with a big bonus on all healing, or war cleric where extra attacks are always useful and bonses to hit come up a lot.

[supercereal]

Thank you for the interest into my domains , I made two small changes:

- Modified "Ebb and Flow" to correct creatures into creature (singular), so is should be clearer now. Also note that all the effects are preceded by "you can", so there is no risk to accidentaly heal foes or harming allies.
- Buffed the air domain channel divinity to last until the end of the cleric next turn, so everyone gets a full turn of +2AC
- Thinking about a new name for the "warding wind" ability (suggestions?)

To respond in general to the other points, I choose to give divine strike or potent spellcasting in pairs (e.g. air - spellcasting and earth - divine strike). I also gave hevy armor proficiency to fire domain because divine domains tends to be generous about giving heavy armor proficiency.

For the earth domain I think it is ok if is it mostly defensly. I bsed the channel divinity based on the twilight cleric and they should be around the same power. I get that the 17th level feature is not op, but is a common feature in divine domains.

For the fire domain, I agree that the 2nd level feature is a little bit op, but I think that the rest of the class feature are accordingly toned down. While it is true that it can be a good basis for a baster, martial weapon + heavy armor, a couple of smite spells and divine strike gave it a more mixed profline overall.

For the air domain, unarmored defense seems a little bit too much , but maybe it is a little bit on the underpower side. Maybe I'll think about an additional feature at first level or to boost the channel divinity a little bit more.

[MrStabby]

Thank you for the interest into my domains , I made two small changes:

- Modified "Ebb and Flow" to correct creatures into creature (singular), so is should be clearer now. Also note that all the effects are preceded by "you can", so there is no risk to accidentaly heal foes or harming allies.
- Buffed the air domain channel divinity to last until the end of the cleric next turn, so everyone gets a full turn of +2AC
- Thinking about a new name for the "warding wind" ability (suggestions?)

To respond in general to the other points, I choose to give divine strike or potent spellcasting in pairs (e.g. air - spellcasting and earth - divine strike). I also gave hevy armor proficiency to fire domain because divine domains tends to be generous about giving heavy armor proficiency.

For the earth domain I think it is ok if is it mostly defensly. I bsed the channel divinity based on the twilight cleric and they should be around the same power. I get that the 17th level feature is not op, but is a common feature in divine domains.

For the fire domain, I agree that the 2nd level feature is a little bit op, but I think that the rest of the class feature are accordingly toned down. While it is true that it can be a good basis for a baster, martial weapon + heavy armor, a couple of smite spells and divine strike gave it a more mixed profline overall.

For the air domain, unarmored defense seems a little bit too much , but maybe it is a little bit on the underpower side. Maybe I'll think about an additional feature at first level or to boost the channel divinity a little bit more.

For the fire domain, I wouldn't say the CD is a little overpowered - it puts other blasters to shame. If we look at fireball as the go-to fire spell and compare to the draconic sorcerer at level 6 there is quite a gulf. 48 damage from the Fire Cleric compared to an average of 32 to 33 for the draconic sorcerer (if they boost fire spells). So 50% more damage than a dedicated blaster. Sure it needs resources from the cleric but the cleric will generally be getting more chanel divinities at this level per day than they will have level 3 spell slots. This is on a class that has great concentration spells, utitilty spells, ritual casting, heavy armour etc.. I just think this is really too much. This isn't actually a fault with the channel divinity at all - the problem is with fireball. If you took fireball from the spell list it would all be perfectly reasonable.

Regarding water - ok this looks better. When you had said "a creatures" before I had assumed it was a typo for "all creatures", so not all friendly creatures or all hostile creature and generally meaning if you wanted to use it you would be having some beneficial and some adverse effects.

And for air... It isn't underpowered, just a bit underexciting. Well it might be a tiny bit underpowered as well. Most cleric domains have some signature, powerful ability in the 1-6 level range that makes you want to play that domain. It could be a domain spell, it could be a channel divinity option or a passive buff. Something to make that cleric really stand out. Air domain feels like... well why would you play it?

Water you play to use Ebb and Flow and to be an efficient healer - not in the way a life cleric does but by healing from other damage spells. When you play a fire cleric you are wanting to be a heavily armoured engine of fiery destruction. There are reasons to play the domain and reasons to play a cleric to do what you want to do.

Air seems to offer mobility, which is good. Zephyr strike and steel wind strike throw you around the battlefield but are you really better placed than a monk for this? Then there is stuff like "warding wind" ability and the channel divinity which are about protecting allies, but neither are particularly sexy like the nature cleric's level 6 ability.

I think you can push the envelope a bit harder with protective abilities on the cleric - they all compete for concentration just just having a few more spells on the list through domains won't boost the power much.

On the other hand, if you want to emphsise the mobility element of the subclass you need to boost the benefits from being mobile. If yu are a monk or similar you can use your mobility to close down and hurt enemies and your melee payload isn't insignificant. With the wind domain, you can use your mobility from tools like zephyr strike to hit someone in the face but you don't get a bonus to weapon attacks or the armour to want to stay there. A small change like swapping gust as the cantrip for booming blade (and making it a cleric spell - side note, are the extra cantrips provided intended tobe cleric spells for the users? id doesn't say so) would totally turn this around. You wouldn't be a top tier damage dealer but you would do just enough to be noticed and with a mechanic that would reward your mobility.

[supercereal]

For the fire domain, I wouldn't say the CD is a little overpowered - it puts other blasters to shame.

Ok you convinced me, I think I will change Fireball with Melf's Minute Meteors.

And for air... It isn't underpowered, just a bit underexciting.

I think I will think about the Air domain for a bit, I will make a few changes to emphasize mobility, which I think it's an untapped market for Cleric.

side note, are the extra cantrips provided intended to be cleric spells for the users? id doesn't say so

Should they? The other domains (e.g. Nature or Death) doesn't specify that they are cleric spells, just that you learn a new cantrip. Am I missing something?

[MrStabby]

Ok you convinced me, I think I will change Fireball with Melf's Minute Meteors.



I think I will think about the Air domain for a bit, I will make a few changes to emphasize mobility, which I think it's an untapped market for Cleric.



Should they? The other domains (e.g. Nature or Death) doesn't specify that they are cleric spells, just that you learn a new cantrip. Am I missing something?

Death IS specifically differen to the others, Nature it matters less as it uses wisdom anyway as the casting stat. Arcana does, possibly as it can be a cleric using an attack roll or a save. I think that you would need to specify the appropriate casting stat if nothing else.


I think that Air domain could be an awesome domain if it emphasised mobility - my advice is to ensure it has abilities that a) make it mobile and b) make it matter that it is mobile. As long as it has some niche that can't be beter done by another class you should be fine.

[supercereal]

Death IS specifically differen to the others, Nature it matters less as it uses wisdom anyway as the casting stat. Arcana does, possibly as it can be a cleric using an attack roll or a save. I think that you would need to specify the appropriate casting stat if nothing else.

Ok I think it matters only if you have potent spellcasting as an 8th level feature (you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip) and if you gain extra cantrip that deals damage, so the Arcana domain is the only one that requires the specification that those extra cantrip are cleric cantrip for you. It's not about the appropriate casting stat as is specified by the spellcasting feature of your class and not by the cantrip itself.

I will work on the more mobile Air domain

[supercereal]

So I made some changes on the Air domain:

https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MTLYXk5HyT5tVbQcJvE

In a nutshell: I kept the 1st level ability and the 6th level improvement, the channel divininity is now a bonus action that grants the benefit of Dash AND Disengage, and I added a feature at the 6th level that works like a tiger's pounce (e.g. if you move at least 4 squares your attack can knock enemy prone).

What do you think?

[MrStabby]

So I made some changes on the Air domain:

https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MTLYXk5HyT5tVbQcJvE

In a nutshell: I kept the 1st level ability and the 6th level improvement, the channel divininity is now a bonus action that grants the benefit of Dash AND Disengage, and I added a feature at the 6th level that works like a tiger's pounce (e.g. if you move at least 4 squares your attack can knock enemy prone).

What do you think?

Honestly, I think you could add more power to the air domain still. Some of the abilities don't mesh quite right.

At level 1, you could maybe add a little movement increase?

At level 2, the channel divinity is... fine. Compare it to something like misty step though which has its own disadvantages but does something similar and is widely available. It doens't feel unique. I would say at least give flying.

At level 6, we get something cool... kind of. You can knock people over but only with a weapon attack, which is cool but the class doesn't get a boost to weapon attacks at level 8 - instead giving you an incentive to cast cantrips. And your high level signature spell - steel wind strike - would be great fun if you could also knock over a bunch of people, but it is a spell attack not a weapon attack.

Level 17, yeah sure, flying is cool. Why not allow it indoors though?


So I my philosophy on clerics is that a good domain really has at least one signature thing (spell or ability) to draw people in and a bunch of weaker stuff so the end result isn't overpowered. You need a "why would you play this" type thought process. So I don't have a problem at all with any of the abilities being weak. In fact this is good because it leaves more space for awesome iconic abilities. It is this ability that I think this cleric domain misses.

I think that of the domains you have here, Water is the perfect example. OK but unremarkable domain spells (which is fine, core low level cleric spells are fantastic), some passive water themed abilities (kind of thing that would sting if they were not there), channel divinity is both pretty strong and does something other classes don't but nothing over the top, capstone is really good but not particularly sexy. But it is Ebb and Flow you pick the domain for. Even low level spells can quickly start to chip away at enemies or keep party hitpoints stacked up. This looks like fun as you get to do more things and always by contributing to a fight in multiple ways. It also gives you an incentive to use the domain spells to give you the damage types you want. I think it is well balanced and fun.

Also note Ebb and Flow currently reads: "When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher that restores hit points to a creature other than you, you can deal cold or bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + the spell's level to a creatures within 30 feet of you. When you cast a Cleric spell of 1st level or higher that deals cold or bludgeoning damage to a creature, you can restore hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level to a creatures within 30 feet of you." It still has an instance of an "a creatures" wording. Also, is it intentiaonal that the damage spell must be a cleric spell but the healing can come from any class?

Fire is a really challenging one. You need to create a unique feel so that it isn't "another version of he light domain" nor "tempest domain with the element swapped". On the tempest side, you have a heavy weapon and armour cleric with an ability to boost damage a couple of times per short rest - one has scorching ray the other has shatter; they are not identical but its close. I think in fire's favour it IS more burn focussed. More fire spells and less support spells like fog cloud. Whilst I think the domain is pretty fine, if you were to take another look I would do so with an eye to putting a bit more space between them.

[supercereal]

Ok, final revision to the air domain:

I changed airstrike to work with meele attack, so as it is worderd now it should work with melee weapon attacks, melee spell attacks (like steel wind strike) and also unarmed attacks (with optional sinergy with the monk class).

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

[MrStabby]

Ok, final revision to the air domain:

I changed airstrike to work with meele attack, so as it is worderd now it should work with melee weapon attacks, melee spell attacks (like steel wind strike) and also unarmed attacks (with optional sinergy with the monk class).

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

OK, fair enough. It is a good set of subclasses. Though I might do things differently I think what you have is sound.

Still, to summarise - and I emphasise this is a personal view not a recomendation:

I would make Air touched add 5ft to movement speed as well.

If it were me I would change the channel divinity to "as a bonus action you may double your speed, double your jump distance and avoid provoking attacks of opportunity until the start of your next turn" It is just a bit broader to allow for reaction moves and combining it with the dash action. I think that a cleric moving this fast is both memorable, unlikely to be game-breakingly powerful and themaic for the sub-class.

At 8th I would make attacks deal d8 thunder damage. Firstly, this would seem to tie up well with the imagery from 6th level - you knock people off their feet with a burst of thunder, but it also gives an incentive to use those mobile attacks rather than throwing out a cantrip like toll the dead. All in all I think it is about as powerful, but this would make the player feel like they were being more mobile.

At 17th I would just make it give a flying speed. It kind of sucks if you don't get a capstone because your game of Dungeons and Dragons goes into dungeons. Look at forge cleric - fire immunity, BPS resistance or arcana cleric with high level wizard spells. Tempest cleric kind of gets away with the bad version because so many of its other feaures are strong.


Edit:
If I were to play one, I think that a dex based dual wielder with the mobile feat would work pretty well. You would be a solid support skirmisher dashing about, knocking enemies prone and protecting them with warding wind effects. The additional mobility is also nice to have for picking up fallen allies with healing spells.