Are Half-Elves Boring?

[Mechalich]

I think folks fixate, in D&D especially, too much on what "the race" brings to the table. Honestly unless your character is real big on their race, probably not much.

I think the opposite would actually be true. Ethnicity is one of the primary identity traits among humans and we live in a world with, at present, only one sapient species. It seems almost certain that in a setting with multiple sentient species active at one time, species is going to be hugely important.

This is particularly obvious in the case of species with significant differences in size. Take three people, one's one meter tall, the next is one-point-five meters tall, and the third is two-point-five meters tall. Can they freely interact with the built environment in the same way? No, they can't, and we know this from experiences with humans. In human society people with very large differences in height require assistance (mechanical and otherwise) to handle everyday tasks. If you had whole populations with such differences they would likely live in very different built environments, designed to different scales.

That's just height, there's a whole range of other features to take into consideration, like temperature, atmospheric mix, odor sensitivity, light level, and even gravity. Science fiction and space fantasy sometimes delve into this (the issues afflicting people born on Mars are fairly common in recent literature).

D&D, by contrast, deliberately elides commonplace differences between species in order to facilitate gameplay, especially from 3e and onward (several early novels actually did have references to how things like dwarf and halfling height presented real challenges). The game made a mechanical choice to drastically decrease the actual impact of race on play. That's probably for the best, for gameplay purposes, but it artificially removes meaning from an extremely important character trait.

[KillianHawkeye]

One interesting addendum is that half-elves in fiction are usually extremely rare: their specialness and what makes them interestesting is that there are very few of them not only in the present time, but across history, usually numbering in the single digits.

So, playing a lot of half-elves may take away the uniqueness that made them interesting to you in the first place, because they now are "commonplace" in your mental landscape.

This is something that was done by D&D itself, though, by making half-elves and half-orcs into actual races. Now we have half-elves whose mom and dad were both half-elves and who grew up in a half-elf village.

[LibraryOgre]

This is something that was done by D&D itself, though, by making half-elves and half-orcs into actual races. Now we have half-elves whose mom and dad were both half-elves and who grew up in a half-elf village.

Especially with half-orcs, though, I think that may be a bit more likely. If you go with a traditional D&D, where orcs and humans are in near-constant conflict, then first generation half-orcs would be relatively rare... aborted or infanticided, when they occur in human lands (an orc-raised half-orc would be more or less an orc in outlook). Those that survived would, IMO, often find common cause with each other... while a half-elf might find companionship with humans or elves, at least for a time, the hostility that orcs and half-orcs get means that many half-orcs would have few places to turn... other than other half-orcs.

Get a few generations of that and you have the makings of a small community.

[TaRix]

Wait... why can't elves have beards? If the system still bases elves on Tolkien elves, an image search for "rankin-bass hobbit elrond" gives me a definitely-bearded high elf.

[hamishspence]

The only elf who is specifically called out as bearded by Tolkien himself, is Cirdan the Shipwright.

I'm not sure if there's any good examples of a D&D elf (as opposed to half-elf) with a beard though.

Ed Greenwood though, has stated that one of his elf book characters has facial hair - just very very little, and he never needs to shave.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.as...1&whichpage=80

As it happens, all of the Knights can attest that Merith Strongbow has both (scant, but dark in hue and definitely present) facial and body hair (though unlike human males, he doesn’t get facial stubble if he doesn’t shave every morning, and in fact never needs to shave)

[Cheesegear]

This is something that was done by D&D itself, though, by making half-elves and half-orcs into actual races. Now we have half-elves whose mom and dad were both half-elves and who grew up in a half-elf village.

Player's Handbook:
"Walking in two worlds but truly belonging to neither."
"Some Half-Elves live among humans, set apart by their emotional and physical differences..."
"Others live with Elves, growing restless..."
"Many half-elves are unable to fit into either society..."

Half-Elves are 'boring', 'cause, at the table, nobody wants to get bogged down in what amounts to real-world social issues, inside their make-believe power fantasy game. As a DM, I'm not going to roleplay that the Human bartender wont serve you because you're weird-looking, because your character has to address that, or leave town and not address it, but now your character isn't doing things in the town anymore, which is where I need you to be. And the players at the table aren't interested in character drama that only affects one player. We've got **** to do, and not a lot of time to do it in.

Half-Elves are boring, 'cause everything that makes them interesting, I - the DM - don't want to touch because I want to get to the part where the party stops the summoning of Yeenoghu. I don't have time for Half-Elf ennui, and I don't want to roleplay that the whole Human or Elf town hates Half-Elves.

[Silly Name]

Half-Elves are 'boring', 'cause, at the table, nobody wants to get bogged down in what amounts to real-world social issues, inside their make-believe power fantasy game. As a DM, I'm not going to roleplay that the Human bartender wont serve you because you're weird-looking, because your character has to address that, or leave town and not address it, but now your character isn't doing things in the town anymore, which is where I need you to be. And the players at the table aren't interested in character drama that only affects one player. We've got **** to do, and not a lot of time to do it in.

Usually, my players take any offence to a single member of the party as an offence to all of them: they're "family" in the sense they're a band of misfits that was drawn together by chance/fate and they get angry when some NPC mistreats them.

A racist barkeep is a good way to do some party-wide roleplaying and deal with the locals: if you want our help, you can't refuse one of us.

[hamishspence]

You could also invert it by having isolationist elves who will talk to the party only because of the half-elf- they're not as friendly with him as they would be with an elf - but because he speaks Elven due to being raised with elves, and knows "secret elven trust passwords" they will give the party information that they would not otherwise get.

Half elves as the intermediaries between elven society and human society, is a thing, in Races of Destiny.

[Cheesegear]

Usually, my players take any offence to a single member of the party as an offence to all of them

As I said, it's both quicker and easier as the DM to just not do that, and continue the adventure as normal.

A racist barkeep is a good way to do some party-wide roleplaying and deal with the locals: if you want our help, you can't refuse one of us.

Why even help at all, at that point? They've already shown the Half-Elf the door. If the Town is in trouble, the Half-Elf can and quite rightly just walk away. If the Half-Elf walks away, that player has to roll a new character, 'cause I'm not splitting the party. If the entire party walks out the door in solidarity, then I have to start making **** up on the fly, because the adventure I planned for, is effectively over. I really don't want to do that, given that time is almost always a factor in every session.

Why even give the party the incentive to walk out the door?

This goes for every exotic race.

Unless an NPC points it out, a Dragonborn is a Human with Resistance to a damage and a breath attack.
Unless an NPC points it out, a Drow is a Human with a weird sunlight reaction.

Just not have NPCs point it out, and you're golden.
"Can I play a Hobgoblin?"
Uhh...There's going to be issues when you walk into a civilised town.
"You're the DM. Can't you just make that not happen?"
I guess I don't have to do that, do I?

Per the OP of the thread; "Are Dragonborn boring?" Practically speaking, they're just a Tall Humanoid with a Breath Attack. Yeah. They are. They're not special at all, unless the player and the DM actively go out of their way to make race species a focal issue of importance within the game - which it isn't. Except for in a few rare cases. Racial Speciel tensions are purely a roleplaying issue which anyone can just ignore and remove from their game because who really wants to do that?

Do you want to get bogged down in a very real, very complex societal issue in a fake game of make-pretend?
Or would you like to play the game?

[Silly Name]

Do you want to get bogged down in a very real, very complex societal issue in a fake game of make-pretend?
Or would you like to play the game?

Some people find that "playing the game" includes interfacing with a complex world populated by NPCs that can have flaws and prejudices which the PCs need to get through in order to reach their objectives.

If you and your group don't want to do that, it's fine. But there's some groups for which "having to deal with stereotypes and all that stuff" IS the incentive to play non-humans, or worshippers of a niche god, or whatever.

[Anymage]

Half-Elves are 'boring', 'cause, at the table, nobody wants to get bogged down in what amounts to real-world social issues, inside their make-believe power fantasy game. As a DM, I'm not going to roleplay that the Human bartender wont serve you because you're weird-looking, because your character has to address that, or leave town and not address it, but now your character isn't doing things in the town anymore, which is where I need you to be. And the players at the table aren't interested in character drama that only affects one player. We've got **** to do, and not a lot of time to do it in.

Half-Elves are boring, 'cause everything that makes them interesting, I - the DM - don't want to touch because I want to get to the part where the party stops the summoning of Yeenoghu. I don't have time for Half-Elf ennui, and I don't want to roleplay that the whole Human or Elf town hates Half-Elves.

I don't think I've ever seen a human town that insisted that the point-ears take the back entrance. The half elf fluff sounds a lot less like "underclass" and a lot more like "I am special and nobody understands me". Which can feel a bit juvenile, especially when most other races have something more proactive as characterization touchpoints. (E.G: dwarves have duty and craftsmanship, gnomes are clever and studious, orcs are brash and straightforwards, etc.)

You could also invert it by having isolationist elves who will talk to the party only because of the half-elf- they're not as friendly with him as they would be with an elf - but because he speaks Elven due to being raised with elves, and knows "secret elven trust passwords" they will give the party information that they would not otherwise get.

Half elves as the intermediaries between elven society and human society, is a thing, in Races of Destiny.

Half elves as protagonists work best when elves are otherworldly and just better than you. Usually this results in settings where, if they were converted into RPG settings, elves would have a high upfront cost to play(a big chunk of build points, high ECL, etc.) if they're available at all. Half elves get a bit of that specialness and protagonistiness while still being closer to the everyman/audience self-insert. There'd be a more distinct narrative role. That's watered down a lot when elves are relatively common and balanced for play with ordinary humans.

When elves are just another PC race and a player can just up and pick one, two things happen. First, there's no reason to have a half elf as an elven envoy when a full elf PC can do that just as easily. Second, when elves are just another people in a cosmopolitan world (which tends to happen in games because again, otherwise you'd have to explain how PCs could come from this isolationist society often enough to be one of the main races published in the PHB), it's a lot easier to just approach one than to make a whole narrative thing about half bloods working well as go-betweens.

[Lord Raziere]

Do you want to get bogged down in a very real, very complex societal issue in a fake game of make-pretend?
Or would you like to play the game?

Only if you define "game" as "comedic hack 'n' slash where things aren't taken very much seriously".

There are other things that are fun. the idea that all fun is this lowest common denominator of near murderhobo silliness designed to allow you to escape from modern life is not an accurate one.

like dude, I play a freeform naruto game all about the politics, social issues, espionage and science of that universes shinobi, cutting out the Akatsuki as villains to focus on how the shinobi nations themselves are horrible and full of people who do war crimes, abuse and manipulate their children so they grow up to do more war crimes, where all the nations have people who are sympathetic or good people but aren't on the PC's side, manipulative and evil people who ARE on the PC's side, while my character is an amoral scientist girl who is a mix of Vegeta, Orochimaru, and Entrapta whose entire story is about whether she turns out a hero or a villain in her ambitious quest to obtain all jutsu like some To be a Master protagonist/villainous power hungry mastermind, with my efforts specifically being to make it as ambiguous and uncertain as possible. and I'm having fun playing out how screwed up that world is. its a most beautiful trainwreck!

people can have fun portraying the pain and suffering, the complexities, the grey, the serious, the dark, and the screwed up. just because you can't, doesn't mean your somehow the only fun around.

[Cheesegear]

I play a freeform naruto game all about the politics, social issues, espionage and science of that universes shinobi, cutting out the Akatsuki as villains to focus on how the shinobi nations themselves are horrible and full of people who do war crimes, abuse and manipulate their children so they grow up to do more war crimes

Bartender wont talk to or serve a specific player character... War crimes.
Bit of an escalation. The only way I can even begin to say how you've missed my point is by bringing in real-world examples, which I obviously can't/wont do.

people can have fun portraying the pain and suffering, the complexities, the grey, the serious, the dark, and the screwed up. just because you can't, doesn't mean your somehow the only fun around.

Are Half-Elves, boring?

Yes. In the same way that Dragonborn, Drow, Half-Orcs, Tieflings and any Volo's race are 'boring.' What makes them interesting as characters is the - usually negative - aspects of roleplaying that the DM and players can include for such species in their world. There are a lot of (mostly negative) roleplaying opportunities to be had when a player plays as those races that present challenges to the players.
However, in my experience, those negative aspects to roleplaying, only really serve as a backstory, for why a character had to leave their home, or to provide a call to adventure. However, once in game proper, those aspects are dropped, because they might impede the game or the plot-thread. A Tiefling is a literal representation of someone, somewhere, at some point, consorting with Fiends. That's gonna stick with people, and not just a single bartender. That's why it's a problem.

I can put in an NPC to roadblock my players for any reason. Including for what their characters are. But it's that NPC, not commonplace that the party has to deal with everywhere they go, because I don't want to play that game, because that sounds miserable, and not in the good way.

If the other players and the DM don't or wont roleplay those negative attributes at the player's character, then you aren't playing the most important aspect of being a Half-Elf.
But I would also contend that any group that don't or wont do it for Half-Elves, doesn't do it for Dragonborn, Drow, etc. either.

[Anymage]

However, in my experience, those negative aspects to roleplaying, only really serve as a backstory, for why a character had to leave their home, or to provide a call to adventure. However, once in game proper, those aspects are dropped, because they might impede the game or the plot-thread. A Tiefling is a literal representation of someone, somewhere, at some point, consorting with Fiends. That's gonna stick with people, and not just a single bartender. That's why it's a problem.

In terms of actual play, yeah. Racial prejudice should be minimal to negligible in terms of play. If nothing else, it tends to get in the way of the PCs doing cool protagonisty things.

In terms of background fluff? The teifling can make the occasional off the cuff remark about wanting to be more than their birthright. Maybe even living beyond peoples expectations of them, even if those expectations never manifest in game beyond the dm occasionally mentioning sideward glances and whispers when the character enters a tavern. Just like the halfling can drop a stray comment about their past community and what compelled them to give up their comforts for adventure.

Half elves? In a cosmopolitan setting where the "outsider" and "go-between" roles aren't really relevant, what's their narrative shtick?

[Mechalich]

Dealing with social issues in-game has two prerequisites. First, the game itself must be sufficiently immersive that the players actually care about social issues in the setting. Only a minority of games meet this bar and most of them aren't set in high fantasy settings. Second, the setting must be sufficiently robust so that it can actually portray such issues in a meaningful fashion. Only a tiny minority of game settings meet this bar and almost none of them are high fantasy. Attempting to handle serious issues in a non-serious or non-functional setting is a recipe for tragicomedy or the worst kind of grimdark and is only suited for deconstruction or black comedy, which are unlikely forms of tabletop gameplay (I mean, anything is possible, apparently Lord Raziere is doing just this in a Naruto game, something that boggles my mind since Naruto's world-building is utterly nonsensical and hilariously awful).

Superhero settings (which includes all 3.X D&D scenarios not level-limited) are particularly bad for this sort of thing because there are no social issues. All power is personal and therefore all politics are personal. If you're a level 15 half-elf wizard and the people of some human small town treat you like garbage because of your heritage you can turn that town into a crater and the only people who can do anything about it will be other level 15 and above full casters. This is why the MCU keeps things light and fun and mostly elides the implications of gods among us to great success and their DC competitors struggled while trying to be serious.

[Lord Raziere]

Attempting to handle serious issues in a non-serious or non-functional setting is a recipe for tragicomedy or the worst kind of grimdark and is only suited for deconstruction or black comedy, which are unlikely forms of tabletop gameplay (I mean, anything is possible, apparently Lord Raziere is doing just this in a Naruto game, something that boggles my mind since Naruto's world-building is utterly nonsensical and hilariously awful).

No its the opposite way around: a sensible or well built setting I have no urge or need to deconstruct or examine, because they too well built and thus already have answers to those questions, which are often good aligned answers that make sure you can't get the maximum drama/suffering out of it, so there is no point to telling a story there. its the ATLA roleplaying problem for me: the story its made to tell is already told and so superbly that I can't think of anything better so I feel no need to ruin the setting by touching it. that and ATLA is kinda of a limited setting for me so not really sparking my imagination.

an unexamined setting full of weirdness on the other hand like Naruto is ripe for being taken and modified to tell the story I want because there is so much blank space to fill and thus ways for the setting to make sense in a way that causes conflict, problems, obstacles and cool stories you wouldn't get otherwise. some of my best characters have come from asking questions that the setting has never asked before and imagining an answer that allows a story to be told, especially if its not a story intended by the original creator. those gaps are the motherlode in the guise of blank canvas! Why go for a setting where I know all the answers? thats boring.

[Dienekes]

In terms of actual play, yeah. Racial prejudice should be minimal to negligible in terms of play. If nothing else, it tends to get in the way of the PCs doing cool protagonisty things.

In terms of background fluff? The teifling can make the occasional off the cuff remark about wanting to be more than their birthright. Maybe even living beyond peoples expectations of them, even if those expectations never manifest in game beyond the dm occasionally mentioning sideward glances and whispers when the character enters a tavern. Just like the halfling can drop a stray comment about their past community and what compelled them to give up their comforts for adventure.

Half elves? In a cosmopolitan setting where the "outsider" and "go-between" roles aren't really relevant, what's their narrative shtick?

I think that really depends on the type of game and players. Though I will admit, I don't think D&D is the best system for working through the intricacies of prejudice, injustice, and the gritty details of life. But it can be done.

[ezekielraiden]

Are Half-Elves, boring?

Yes. In the same way that Dragonborn, Drow, Half-Orcs, Tieflings and any Volo's race are 'boring.' What makes them interesting as characters is the - usually negative - aspects of roleplaying that the DM and players can include for such species in their world. There are a lot of (mostly negative) roleplaying opportunities to be had when a player plays as those races that present challenges to the players.
However, in my experience, those negative aspects to roleplaying, only really serve as a backstory, for why a character had to leave their home, or to provide a call to adventure. However, once in game proper, those aspects are dropped, because they might impede the game or the plot-thread. A Tiefling is a literal representation of someone, somewhere, at some point, consorting with Fiends. That's gonna stick with people, and not just a single bartender. That's why it's a problem.

I can put in an NPC to roadblock my players for any reason. Including for what their characters are. But it's that NPC, not commonplace that the party has to deal with everywhere they go, because I don't want to play that game, because that sounds miserable, and not in the good way.

If the other players and the DM don't or wont roleplay those negative attributes at the player's character, then you aren't playing the most important aspect of being a Half-Elf.
But I would also contend that any group that don't or wont do it for Half-Elves, doesn't do it for Dragonborn, Drow, etc. either.

I don't get why it has to be "mostly negative." You can play both negative and positive stuff here. Positive stuff can be sensory differences, physiology differences, predominant cultural patterns, or instinctual differences. For example, clothing may be cut differently for races with horns, thick scales, hooves, a tail, etc. Furniture might be variably comfortable for different physiologies, food might taste different, idioms might be common for one but not another (e.g. dragonborn might not speak of birth as much as hatching), fight-or-flight patterns might differ. Nothing "negative" about any of these things.

As for whether half-elves (or any other races) are "boring," it's a matter of what you and your DM do with them. With something like a playable race, where it needs to cover a lot of ground because it needs to encompass an enormous variety of player characters, it's a matter of implementation. How did your DM implement that race in the world, and how did you implement your specific character within that context? (Note that this isn't true of 100% of things--feats, for example, can quite easily be boring because all they do is offer a mechanical advantage, e.g. Elven Accuracy is a boring numbers-booster, and there really isn't any room for alternate implementation--but it is true of races.)

In the Dungeon World game I run, there are some elves, who are the descendants of a much older elven civilization that no longer exists. Those forebears left a long time ago, and one of the party is a half-elven descendant of theirs. He has a Cool Sword he inherited from them, which ties into other things in the game. People don't make a fuss about him being half-elven, but it has mattered in various ways (subtle or not-so-subtle) over the course of the game. That's purely because I've made the effort to have it be relevant. If the DM never bothers to make physiology, appearance, or ethno-linguistic origin matter, then of course it's going to be boring.

Likewise, if the player never injects any flavor or texture by considering these facets, again, boring because it's a non-entity. Things don't have to be bad, they just have to differ in one way or another, enough to be worth mentioning. Perhaps tieflings are all tetrachromats--so their clothing can sometimes look "bland" to other races, as most of them can't see the colors the tieflings can. Perhaps dragonborn have a strong sense of actual taste (meaning, sour/bitter/umami/etc., the stuff the tongue itself detects) but a weak sense of smell, and thus their food tends to be seen as overly herbal/seasoned, but under-salted compared to other races. As an example in my campaign world, the otherworld region that genies hail from, Jinnistan, is elementally supercharged compared to the mortal world. This affects Jinnistani food, and in particular, Jinnistani alcohol--mortals generally have to water down Jinnistani wine for potability, or drink it in very small amounts, otherwise it can be a powerful hallucinogen. These properties also make it a powerful alchemical agent, and because the genies charge incredible tariffs on the export of goods, it's always terribly expensive.

[quinron]

This is something that was done by D&D itself, though, by making half-elves and half-orcs into actual races. Now we have half-elves whose mom and dad were both half-elves and who grew up in a half-elf village.

Wait... why can't elves have beards? If the system still bases elves on Tolkien elves, an image search for "rankin-bass hobbit elrond" gives me a definitely-bearded high elf.

These two posts being so near each other is very funny to me. Elrond, a.k.a. Elrond Half-Elven, is the son of two half-elves, Eärendil and Elwing.

EDIT: Okay, technically Elrond's mother is herself a half-elf, making Elrond a quarter-elf, but her mother is half-Ainur, so Elrond is technically half human, 3/8 elf, 1/8 angel. I didn't know any of this 10 minutes ago.

[Cheesegear]

Though I will admit, I don't think D&D is the best system for working through the intricacies of prejudice, injustice, and the gritty details of life. But it can be done.

Of course it can be done. But with either:
a) Players who aren't mature enough to handle the content, or
b) Players who see themselves within the fictional characters, and thus are real-world offended at/by the DM for including certain storylines and characters (but then also see a)),
Then no it can't be done.

I don't get why it has to be "mostly negative."

Because I'm not talking about the aspects of roleplaying that people don't care about.
If a player gets a social advantage for being a Half-Elf, that's a good thing, and the player isn't going to complain about it, so it's a non-issue at most tables - including mine.

Nobody complains when their character isn't punished - let alone actively rewarded - for something they didn't do.

[ezekielraiden]

Because I'm not talking about the aspects of roleplaying that people don't care about.
If a player gets a social advantage for being a Half-Elf, that's a good thing, and the player isn't going to complain about it, so it's a non-issue at most tables - including mine.

Nobody complains when their character isn't punished - let alone actively rewarded - for something they didn't do.

I never said it had to be a reward; the sword was literally just one example among many. I just showed you had to actively making race mean something. (The cool sword was actually a specific racial feature, or rather, having SOME kind of signature magic item. A sword just made sense for this character.)

You specifically said that most of the way to make things not boring were negative. I'm challenging the notion, which both you and Raziere seem to hold unquestioned--that the only way for race to matter is if it's a problem or a perk. I'm saying it can matter for reasons entirely unrelated to bonuses or penalties, coolness or grimness. It can just be...the quirks or idiosyncrasies of having different physiology, or of ethno-cultural values, or language, etc. No need for trauma, tragedy, bonus-mongering, or ruthless charop. Just teasing out logical (or at least plausible) consequences and concepts from what is known. Y'know, world-building.

[Anymage]

I think that really depends on the type of game and players. Though I will admit, I don't think D&D is the best system for working through the intricacies of prejudice, injustice, and the gritty details of life. But it can be done.

I think we're agreeing here, D&D is not a good place to focus on these issues beyond the most trivial level. Like you might have some oaf make an offhand sexist comment to a female PC, but that's just setting up the oaf to get his comeuppance soon and not a thing the PC will have to face with any regularity.

I do think that a dwarf or elf or dragonborn might make a mild flavor comment reaffirming their dwarf-, elf-, or dragonborniness. Much like how a human character who adds a blurb about his heroic great-grandfather might make a mild flavor comment about that. My point is that barring settings where humans and elves live in very different worlds (and as such, creating the narrative space for half elves as go-betweens), I don't see what bits of fluff a player might add to affirm their half elvishness that wouldn't fit just as well on a full human or elf.

[Lord Raziere]

I never said it had to be a reward; the sword was literally just one example among many. I just showed you had to actively making race mean something. (The cool sword was actually a specific racial feature, or rather, having SOME kind of signature magic item. A sword just made sense for this character.)

You specifically said that most of the way to make things not boring were negative. I'm challenging the notion, which both you and Raziere seem to hold unquestioned--that the only way for race to matter is if it's a problem or a perk. I'm saying it can matter for reasons entirely unrelated to bonuses or penalties, coolness or grimness. It can just be...the quirks or idiosyncrasies of having different physiology, or of ethno-cultural values, or language, etc. No need for trauma, tragedy, bonus-mongering, or ruthless charop. Just teasing out logical (or at least plausible) consequences and concepts from what is known. Y'know, world-building.

I didn't say they didn't matter without being a problem.

I said that they weren't serious without suffering. A joke can matter a lot. Don't underestimate the power of jokes. I'm talking tone, not importance. You need at least some pain for anything to have weight as something to be taken seriously rather than something that makes the tone comedic. and while comedy is fine, too much of it and you get silly hats, overdone stereotypes for the sake of a joke, memes, and everything devolving into absurdity. comedy is incredibly powerful and matters because it has the power to destroy all tension and make everyone go along with the absurdity to balloon it into being even more absurd. it has the power to turn a great and powerful foe into a laughingstock if aimed right. it is the bane of drama and atmosphere if you let it get too powerful.

not to say that comedy can't pair well with pain- one can argue comedy is all about pain, played in a different way. But the reason silly hat races is a thing, is because DnD is seen as "funny fantasy adventure game". See: all instances of murderhobo behavior, crazy plans and other PC shenanigans. allow the tone to be dictated by players and will inevitably devolve into comedy, this is nothing against players or anything, this just social inevitability. you let the races have no tragedy or pain to them, they will matter sure, in the same way any comedic character matters in that they warp the story to be absurd. it will matter, but is it the way you want them to matter? Sure some people want DnD to be "funny fantasy adventure game" and they're free to keep it that way.

But if you want a serious TONE for the races so they stop being a silly hat, there has to be something with weight to it that you can't just laugh off. Thats my point. You have a point to yes, I'm just pointing out that for a full depiction of a life is to depict the downsides in a believable and appropriate manner, thats apart of the mix, you can't ignore it if you want make the races better.

Edit: Behold the power of comedy:

The half elf fluff sounds a lot less like "underclass" and a lot more like "I am special and nobody understands me". Which can feel a bit juvenile, especially when most other races have something more proactive as characterization touchpoints.

With a simple joke, intentional or not, half-elves sound like whiny elf brats who don't have real problems. If a half-elf is born to an abusive elf who sees their offspring as pets whom they will outlive (which they will) that suffering is shoved aside for some generalized image of them being "caught between two worlds" that isn't really accurate to actual complex social issues that people here fear anyways. If a half elf sees something using dark vision in an ignorant human town that associates the trait with more monstrous races and think they're a monster in disguise, that is pushed aside by a comedic light tone that says "no! humans would never be THAT stupid/ignorant/hateful/etc" and any concerns about that are just a joke, because thats all you make of it. If a half elf speaks infernal or abyssal because they're a demon hunter and use those extra languages right but gets suspected of being a demon summoner themselves because of it, thats all wiped away. A meme is a rug that hides many things under it.

[Leon]

No more than humans are. Just that Humans typically get a set of powerful bonuses to make up for how bland they are. Halfelves on the other hand have traditionally gotten squat all.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Guhhhh, now I feel even MORE indecisive as to what my paladin/duelist should be.

[Mutazoia]

Mechanically at least, in pre 3e days all of the races had level caps (never could understand why an elf that lived for a thousand years could only get to a much lower level in a given class than a human), and class restrictions. The Half-Elf allowed a player to have the racial benefits of the elf and avoid the dual-class non-sense that came with the human kit.

After 3e, Half-Elves became more of an RP point while still giving the character some racial benefits. Since 3e did away with racial level limits and class restrictions, Half-Elves became more fluff.

Whether or not something is boring, however, is entirely up to the individual. One person can take a thing and see the near-endless potential in it. Another can take the same thing and just see a tired trope that they can't milk another ounce of potential out of.

[LibraryOgre]

No more than humans are. Just that Humans typically get a set of powerful bonuses to make up for how bland they are. Halfelves on the other hand have traditionally gotten squat all.

Depends on what you mean by Traditionally. For better than half the life of the hobby, it was pretty standard that humans got nothing. In 2e, half-elves were regarded as a particularly powerful option... most of the elven advantages, with access to some human classes thrown in.

[TridentOfMirth]

Half-Elves definitely have "protagonist energy", as many of the most famous characters in literature and D&D lore are half-elves. I definitely feel like Half-Elves can be pretty boring if you are playing the character as a human+, which is the way a lot of people play them. If you want to spice it up, try emphasizing their unique role in society, how they have one foot in each culture and are not really accepted by either. Dig into the inherent loneliness of being a member of a race who does not have their own unique culture. That you are a member of a race that is not wide spread and, likely, you will rarely, if ever, meet another who shares your same experiences. Alternatively, realize that your character will never be accepted by either society but your character yearns for that acceptance and so becomes either the elf-y-ist elf or the human-y-est human. Maybe play a character who tries to be the most elf like elf while around elves and the most human like human around humans, regularly code switching between the two culture.

[quinron]

Half-Elves definitely have "protagonist energy", as many of the most famous characters in literature and D&D lore are half-elves. I definitely feel like Half-Elves can be pretty boring if you are playing the character as a human+, which is the way a lot of people play them. If you want to spice it up, try emphasizing their unique role in society, how they have one foot in each culture and are not really accepted by either. Dig into the inherent loneliness of being a member of a race who does not have their own unique culture. That you are a member of a race that is not wide spread and, likely, you will rarely, if ever, meet another who shares your same experiences. Alternatively, realize that your character will never be accepted by either society but your character yearns for that acceptance and so becomes either the elf-y-ist elf or the human-y-est human. Maybe play a character who tries to be the most elf like elf while around elves and the most human like human around humans, regularly code switching between the two culture.

I haven't read any official D&D books, so my exposure is limited. I feel like almost all half-elves hit the "human+" and "foot in both cultures" aspects, and I can't think of any that instead hit the "elf-" aspect. I think it could be interesting to play a half-elf among elves who gets treated comparably to how orcs treat half-orcs, but with passive aggressiveness and babying pity instead of open violence.

Maybe your half-elf only knows humans through the stereotypes elves have of them, but is aware of the stereotypes humans have of elves. So instead of celebrating being an elf, they try to hide their elven heritage because they know they can't measure up to the expectation.

[TridentOfMirth]

I haven't read any official D&D books, so my exposure is limited. I feel like almost all half-elves hit the "human+" and "foot in both cultures" aspects, and I can't think of any that instead hit the "elf-" aspect. I think it could be interesting to play a half-elf among elves who gets treated comparably to how orcs treat half-orcs, but with passive aggressiveness and babying pity instead of open violence.

Maybe your half-elf only knows humans through the stereotypes elves have of them, but is aware of the stereotypes humans have of elves. So instead of celebrating being an elf, they try to hide their elven heritage because they know they can't measure up to the expectation.

The books talk about the two cultures aspect but in my years of playing almost everyone goes for humans+ ;)

The idea of elf- is very interesting but that requires buy in from the DM. It also needs to be handled with care because that style of play can easily lead to the player not having fun (especially if they adventure a lot in elf lands).