What's your favourite "Western" movie?

[Mordar]

Same, I liked that one a lot. Also the one with DiCaprio.

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"? That's like...Western porn.

It is hard for me to pick a favorite. In no particular order...Magnificent Seven (Yul Brenner, but also liked Denzel Washington's), Fistful of Dollars, Rooster Cogburn/Big Jake/True Grit (I cannot pick a favorite JW movie, so it is always those three). I came to The Searchers much later, and totally appreciate it for all that it is, but it never captured me like JW as Rooster or Jake.

I liked Tombstone (at least, I liked about 60% of it), Silverado (about the same) and the new Magnificent Seven...but for me the 60s era (and early 70s) have my favorites.

- M

[comicshorse]

Same, I liked that one a lot. Also the one with DiCaprio.

'The Quick and the Dead' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Qu...ad_(1995_film)

Interestingly neither he nor Russel Crowe get a mention on the movie poster. The Val Kilmer/ Michael Biehn thing Aedilred mention but in reverse

PS
Damn, Ninjaed

[Rodin]

Speaking of Yul Brynner, that's another Western-adjacent favorite - Westworld. Technically Sci-Fi, but the setting is still Western.

[Peelee]

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"?

'The Quick and the Dead' ?

Yeah, that's it.

That's like...Western porn.

- M

Eh?

[Trafalgar]

Blazing Saddles.

If we're restricting it to serious Westerns? High Noon. Iconic gunslinger showdown and his wife gets to kick some ass too.

Most people don't realize that Blazing Saddles is based on a Edo period samurai movie called Moeru sadoru (dir by Kurosawa). It is essentially the same movie except in the campfire scene, the beans were originally wasabi peas.

[Mordar]

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"? That's like...Western porn.

- M

Yeah, that's it.

Eh?

It is a collection of gunfight scenes with a little smattering of...what we can loosely call plot...between them.

Sort of reminiscent of another style of movie.

Spoiler: Get off my lawn moment

Show

For those that are only aware of streaming scenes of a prurient nature, once upon a time those scenes would occur in a movie consisting of loosely-stitched together scenes with some actor overlap pretending to tell a story while really just being a vehicle for nakedness escapades.

As such, I consider The Quick and the Dead western porn, Bloodsport martial arts porn, and most any mid-80s movie with Arnold, Sly, Chuck and several others gun/fight porn.

- M

[Peelee]

It is a collection of gunfight scenes with a little smattering of...what we can loosely call plot...between them.

Sort of reminiscent of another style of movie.

Spoiler: Get off my lawn moment

Show

For those that are only aware of streaming scenes of a prurient nature, once upon a time those scenes would occur in a movie consisting of loosely-stitched together scenes with some actor overlap pretending to tell a story while really just being a vehicle for nakedness escapades.

As such, I consider The Quick and the Dead western porn, Bloodsport martial arts porn, and most any mid-80s movie with Arnold, Sly, Chuck and several others gun/fight porn.

- M

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.

[Mordar]

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.

I have huge respect for both. Arnold Schwarzenegger pioneered (or at least perfected) the comedic moment in action films, and I'm one of the first people to remind friends that Sylvester Stallone is a dual Academy Award nominee for acting and writing.

And best of all, both knew how to read their rooms, and both cashed in without selling out. That is, to my mind, their jobs and they were exceptional in their chosen fields.

- M

[truemane]

Most people don't realize that Blazing Saddles is based on a Edo period samurai movie called Moeru sadoru (dir by Kurosawa). It is essentially the same movie except in the campfire scene, the beans were originally wasabi peas.

Can you provide me a source on this? Google has nothing.

I am deeply, intimately familiar with the work of Akira Kurosawa, and very familiar with post-war Japanese cinema and with the work of Mel Brooks. I've never heard of a film called Moeru Sadoru, nor one called anything close to 'Saddle', nor can I recall one whose plot resembles that of Blazing Saddles, neither among the works of Kurosawa, nor any of his contemporaries.

If this is a thing, and I didn't know it, I will be very excited.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's sarcasm, as not every Western is a copy of Kurosawa.

[truemane]

It's sarcasm, as not every Western is a copy of Kurosawa.

OH. RIGHT.

I am not a smart man.

[Jan Mattys]

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Mostly because I never really liked westerns all that much but saw that one recently and loved it and decided that maybe I like westerns made in Italy. I need to check out the other ones.

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.

[Rogar Demonblud]

But not Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Especially given it's an attempt on a sequel to El Mariachi and Desperado (speaking of modern westerns...).

[Clertar]

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.

Sergio Leone showed that he was a badass director on a shoestring budget, and didn't lose the touch at all when working with 20 times that budget.

Spoiler

Show

I wonder what today's popular veredict stands on the limo scene, and how much De Niro's character would be redeemable in 2021.

[Scarlet Knight]

I was debating so many good ones until I remembered: "The Mark of Zorro" with Tyrone Power.

Face it: how many of you wanted to be Zorro as a kid?

[dps]

A classic favorite for me is "The Cowboys", partially for this:

Jebediah Nightlinger: [praying to God before he's about to hanged by Asa Watts and his gang] I regret trifling with married women. I'm thoroughly ashamed at cheating at cards. I deplore my occasional departures from the truth. Forgive me for taking your name in vain, my Saturday drunkenness, my Sunday sloth. Above all, forgive me for the men I've killed in anger [eyes shifting to Asa Watts] ... and those I am about to.

IMO, one of the greatest bits of dialogue ever written.

[snowblizz]

Paint Your Wagon is more "Gold Rush" than "Cowboys" but it's still a Western, and a musical one at that. The songs are very catchy.

That's an actual thing? I only know it from a The Simpsons reference.


I might have to go with Django Unchained.

[Yora]

I think my number one is probably A Fistful of Dollars. Which is a remake of my favorite Samurai movie Yojimbo. Which is odd, as I usually despise any remakes of movies I love.

It's been ages since I last saw Silverado and can't really remember anything right now, but back in the 90s, the whole family always got excited any time it was on.

[Aedilred]

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.

I think Rocky II was a legitimately good movie. It's not as good as the first, but it's much closer to the first in tone than it is to its successors.

Rocky III and IV... I'm not sure that "fight porn" is the right description because there isn't actually a huge amount of fighting in them (although there are a lot of training montages). But they do belong solidly to the category of light entertainment rather than serious cinema. Balboa is a better drama film than III or IV, but the plot is even more preposterous and really it's a credit to the filmmakers that they persuade you to buy into it at all.

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.

Personally I'd rate The Good, The Bad and the Ugly above ...In America, which I found to be beautifully shot and well-acted but a bit self-indulgent. I still think it's a "great movie" but I don't love it in the same way.

Sergio Leone showed that he was a badass director on a shoestring budget, and didn't lose the touch at all when working with 20 times that budget.

Spoiler

Show

I wonder what today's popular veredict stands on the limo scene, and how much De Niro's character would be redeemable in 2021.

Oof, yeah.

Spoiler

Show

Not just the limo scene, either: there's the bank(?) job earlier in the film, which may be even worse.

That's an actual thing? I only know it from a The Simpsons reference.

It was an actual thing, although the Simpsons presentation of it was inaccurate and tongue-in-cheek. It was a major financial flop, which, when you think about it, a musical starring Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin, you have to wonder how they didn't see coming.

[Peelee]

I think Rocky II was a legitimately good movie. It's not as good as the first, but it's much closer to the first in tone than it is to its successors.

Rocky II undoes everything Rocky does and flies in the face of the entire theme of the original. When Apollo offered Rocky the fight, Rocky said no. He knew he wasn't in Creed's league, he knew it was just a bone thrown to him, just a flash in the pan. But Creed's people kept at it until he thought he had a shot, trained for it, worked himself to the bone, only to find out yet again that it wasn't real. When he told the promoter that the shorts were wrong on the poster, all he got back was "it doesn't really matter, does it?" That was the message of the entire exhibition - it doesn't really matter. It's not a real fight, it's not a shot at the title, it's just a publicity stunt with Rocky as the parade float Apollo rides on. And Rocky decided that he wasn't going to play that game. He wasn't going to try to win, he wasn't going to go for the title, he wasn't going to dance to their tune. He was going to set his own goal. Go the distance, last all fifteen rounds with Creed. And he did, dammit. He doesn't even listen to the announcement declaring the winner, he's focused on Adrian, because he set out what he wanted to achieve. Victory was completely irrelevant. He lost, and more importantly, he didnt care that he lost.

Every other movie about a game or match or competition has the main character win, or lose but with a purpose or message or learning experience. Rocky is the only movie like that where who wins is entirely irrelevant because the main character, and by proxy the audience who care about him, straight up do not give a damn about the outcome. The winner being announced is relegated to background noise, a blink-and-you-miss-it small detail suitable for the answer on a trivia board game. And we also have the main characters' last words to each other which underscore Rocky's personal victory here - "Ain't gonna be no rematch." "Don't want one." Rocky did what he set out to do. He climbed his Everest, he did was nobody else ever had, he had nothing to prove to anyone but himself and he proved it to himself.

And then the sequel comes along and well, he's gotta win.

Hard pass. The sequels are entertaining, sure, but they have no underlying message other than "Rocky is suddenly the underdog again somehow, see how he comes back to win it all!" The first movie completely transcends this. The first movie is art. Hell, that scene the night before the fight in the stadium has more emotional weight than the next four combined. It's the Rocky version of Quint's speech in Jaws, the scene that delivers the entire emotional premise and imparts exactly how the movie wants to make you feel all condensed into five minutes if some of the best filmmaking ever made. It's art.

Rocky II is a popcorn movie. And not even the best one of the Rocky popcorn movies.

[brionl]

It was an actual thing, although the Simpsons presentation of it was inaccurate and tongue-in-cheek. It was a major financial flop, which, when you think about it, a musical starring Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin, you have to wonder how they didn't see coming.

I like the ending, it's pretty funny. Otherwise the movie drags a lot. And, IIRC, they never actually did paint any wagons.

It's hard to pick my absolute favorite, but Pale Rider and Unforgiven are right near the top of the list. My girlfriend is from the Philippines, so she hasn't seen a lot of westerns. We started out with For A Few Dollars More, and The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly and she liked those. Also Blazing Saddles. We'll probably watch Paint Your Wagon soon, but the last movie we watched together was Mr. Blanding Builds His Dream House, that's more of an Eastern.

[quinron]

Once Upon a Time in the West. Not only do I think it's the best but it's also the film that did most to change my mind about westerns, which I had not previously been particularly interested in as a genre.

Very much the same, though I still haven't seen a lot of them. My mom's a big fan of the classics, but I find them far too boring plot-wise. The spaghetti flicks feel more interesting, and they're a lot more visually compelling.

My primary Western touchstone isn't a movie - it's Have Gun - Will Travel, which admittedly I still haven't seen all the way through. I think my lack of enjoyment of American Westerns owes to the fact that the plots feel like they're being stretched too thin, but condensing them into a half-hour TV show keeps them tight and punchy. Plus, Richard Burton's great in the role.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think my number one is probably A Fistful of Dollars. Which is a remake of my favorite Samurai movie Yojimbo. Which is odd, as I usually despise any remakes of movies I love.

It's been ages since I last saw Silverado and can't really remember anything right now, but back in the 90s, the whole family always got excited any time it was on.

Part of the appeal of Silverado is that it was the first western in a long time shot in the west, rather than in Sicily. You know all those jokes we make about how everything looks like Vancouver? Same deal.

[Aedilred]

I like the ending, it's pretty funny. Otherwise the movie drags a lot. And, IIRC, they never actually did paint any wagons.
:

I think the best thing about it is Joshua Logan's comment about the production: "Not since Attila the Hun swept across Europe leaving 500 years of total blackness has there been a man like Lee Marvin."

[brionl]

I think the best thing about it is Joshua Logan's comment about the production: "Not since Attila the Hun swept across Europe leaving 500 years of total blackness has there been a man like Lee Marvin."

I was 8, when it came out in 1969. I vaguely recall going to see it at a drive-in movie theatre, in the good ol' family station wagon. We would park the wagon backwards and all three of us kids would crash out in the "way back".

[Peelee]

I was 8, when it came out in 1969. I vaguely recall going to see it at a drive-in movie theatre, in the good ol' family station wagon. We would park the wagon backwards and all three of us kids would crash out in the "way back".

That sounds pretty awesome.

[Mordar]

Rocky III and IV... I'm not sure that "fight porn" is the right description because there isn't actually a huge amount of fighting in them (although there are a lot of training montages). But they do belong solidly to the category of light entertainment rather than serious cinema. Balboa is a better drama film than III or IV, but the plot is even more preposterous and really it's a credit to the filmmakers that they persuade you to buy into it at all.

I wasn't thinking so much of the Rocky films...more the Cobras, Demolition Mans, Over the Tops and movies with "Rambo" in the original title.

Hard pass. The sequels are entertaining, sure, but they have no underlying message other than "Rocky is suddenly the underdog again somehow, see how he comes back to win it all!" The first movie completely transcends this. The first movie is art. Hell, that scene the night before the fight in the stadium has more emotional weight than the next four combined. It's the Rocky version of Quint's speech in Jaws, the scene that delivers the entire emotional premise and imparts exactly how the movie wants to make you feel all condensed into five minutes if some of the best filmmaking ever made. It's art.

I believe the sequels solidified the Training Montage as a permanent trope, and really brought soundtracks into play for action movies. Story has it that more than once Stallone wrote Rocky's death and was talked out of it. I suspect he felt the same way about the sequels as you did, but recognized the commercial value.

- M

[Peelee]

I believe the sequels solidified the Training Montage as a permanent trope, and really brought soundtracks into play for action movies. Story has it that more than once Stallone wrote Rocky's death and was talked out of it. I suspect he felt the same way about the sequels as you did, but recognized the commercial value.

- M

Look, I can wax poetic on the original all day long but offer me ten million dollars and I'll make Rocky 19 myself. I can't fault the guy at all for that.

[Trafalgar]

Can you provide me a source on this? Google has nothing.

I am deeply, intimately familiar with the work of Akira Kurosawa, and very familiar with post-war Japanese cinema and with the work of Mel Brooks. I've never heard of a film called Moeru Sadoru, nor one called anything close to 'Saddle', nor can I recall one whose plot resembles that of Blazing Saddles, neither among the works of Kurosawa, nor any of his contemporaries.

If this is a thing, and I didn't know it, I will be very excited.

Kurosawa used the pseudonym "M. Ogawa" for all of his comedies so it doesn't surprise me that Moeru Sadoru isn't listed on his filmography.

Moeru Sadoru and Blazing Saddles are two almost identical movies though you can see Kurosawa's use of background environmental effects like wind and fire in his film. For example, in the Blazing Saddles campfire scene, Mongo lifts his leg and you hear a crude noise. The Moeru Sadoru campfire scene is very similar except Mongo also causes a flatulent breeze that makes the tall grass in the background undulate and ripple. It's very artistic.

Moeru Sadoru, like many post war Japanese movies, also has a deeper political meaning lacking in Mel Brook's version. In Blazing Saddles Bart and Lili's relationship is a simple tryst. In Moeru Sadoru, this relationship is a subtle criticism of Tojo Hideki's decision to ally Japan with Nazi Germany.

But most of all, Moeru Sadoru cemented Toshiro Mifune's status as one of the greatest actors in my mind. The expression on his face when he says "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu!" right before he draws his katana is heartbreaking. "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu" is an expression that contains a certain irony and acerbity that is missing in a direct English translation so Mel Brook's settled on "Excuse me while I whip this out".

I think you can stream Moeru Sadoru on the Criterion Channel.

[dps]

Plus, Richard Burton's great in the role.

Richard Boone, not Richard Burton. But I do agree that Boone is great in the role. Years later, he also played the lead in another TV Western called Hec Ramsey. It flopped in the ratings, but IMO it deserved a bigger audience.