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2022-08-25, 06:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Some rainly old island
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
TBH, that sounds like my deal, and ace is how I describe myself.
Specifically the label I use is "Sex indifferent asexual" (the alternatives to sex indifferent being "sex repulsed" and "sex positive"; meaning not wanting sex at all, and willing to seek out sexual encounters despite the absence of sexual attraction receptively), meaning I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't seem the point of seeking it out (and I don't find people sexually attractive).
And all I have to say to people who're wondering if they're "really asexual" is; you know how allo people act when sex is on the table in sitcoms and dramas? That's not an exaggeration or artistic licence, apparently.Last edited by BisectedBrioche; 2022-08-25 at 06:41 AM.
Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)
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2022-08-25, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
The most common definition of asexuality is usually "experiences little/no sexual attraction", but personally I prefer the more open "experiences sex or sexual attraction in a way that's different from how allosexual people are expected to experience it". So "I don't find people sexually attractive" falls under it, but so does "I just don't care about sex", "I'm only attracted to fictional characters", "I can't tell the difference between sexual attraction and other kinds of attraction" or "trying to figure out if I'm ace or not is just to much work".
You can call me Juniper. Please use gender-neutral pronouns (ze/hir (preferred) or they/them) when referring to me.
"We all are vessels of our brokenness, we carry it inside us like water, careful not to spill. And what is wholeness if not brokenness encompassed in acceptance, the warmth of its power a shield against those who would hurt us?" - R. Lemberg, Geometries of Belonging
Stories Art
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2022-08-25, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
"I am capable of sexual attraction but do not see acting on such as worth it."
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2022-08-25, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
You can call me Juniper. Please use gender-neutral pronouns (ze/hir (preferred) or they/them) when referring to me.
"We all are vessels of our brokenness, we carry it inside us like water, careful not to spill. And what is wholeness if not brokenness encompassed in acceptance, the warmth of its power a shield against those who would hurt us?" - R. Lemberg, Geometries of Belonging
Stories Art
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2022-08-26, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Auckland, NZ
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
So, I came out to a family member (my brother) as bisexual earlier today. He was very accepting. He basically said something more or less to the effect that as long as everybody involved in a given situation is a consenting adult, it's fine as far as he's concerned. It made me very happy.
Spoiler: Out-of-context quotes
Azurite Name Inspirations
Rich is a better writer than that!
Free speech?
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2022-08-26, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Gender
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2022-08-27, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Arizona
- Gender
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2022-09-07, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Sock, Ray, Blue
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2022-09-22, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Hiya all, haven't been active in the thread for years. I catch up now and then. Good to see you all "still going strong" like the thread title says.
Virtual hugs to anyone who's not feeling strong, you can find me in the same place emotionally because I've lived here for 40 years, insecurity is a figurative load of **** that we carry on our shoulders, backs and heads until we're exhausted and dump it all over someone. I'm still here anyway, you're still here and we made it this far. That's got to be worth something.
This speaks to me so much right now. I don't personally identify as ace but I definitely have a low sex drive. I happen to be cis-het and married so it shouldn't be a big deal, right, it's normal for women, right? Stuff that, there is no normal.
In my case this thread helped me many years ago to figure out that I was demisexual. I will strike up a deep and meaningful conversation with just about anyone, and have recently started wondering if I'm panromantic, but actual arousal quite often feels like too much effort. Not for any lack of intimacy - my husband and I are closer emotionally than ever, kisses are great, and holding hands is my favourite thing which I'm so lucky to get to do every night. And don't get me wrong, it is fun when I do deliberately put myself in to the mindset, relax, let my body do its thing ... It just takes a lot of mental effort to get there and I don't seek it out. I am wondering if part of is how much I have been out of touch with my body and stuck in my head, which is partly inattentive type ADHD and partly flat-out ignoring my body out of habit.
And that's playing on "twenty year established relationship" easy mode - if I weren't partnered, I would be physically attracted to precisely zero people and it would be that much more work to get to the point of even "wanting" sex, much less enjoying it. Add in my husband being definitely allo and my base insecurity, and I go back to my default state of feeling like I am just not enough (but that's another story which is entirely to do with me rather than him, which I'll dump on you all in future posts)
So, err, I don't know exactly what place you are at the moment, Rater202, but you've managed to encapsulate precisely where I am right now, so thank you. And you're not alone. And sure, you could call it a type of ace, if you felt like it. Personally I like being overly specific (see: the above wall of text) so I feel like "demi" describes me better and you might not feel the same. But that feeling of "yes sex exists, cool, but it's so much work" is definitely there.I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.
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2022-09-22, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Well, it started a couple of years ago when Lazodiac commented based on some things I said that sh thought I might be nonbinary...
...And it ended with me thinking that the entire concept of Gender is complete bull**** coupled with the realization that I have never been attracted to someone in a way that wasn't either childish infatuation or base physical attraction and even with physical attraction the idea of actually being with someone sounds like too much work given that even a "casual" relationship requires a lot of upkeep and that human bodies are kind of icky.
I have no idea what labels most accurately apply if any, and honestly, I can't decide if there are too many labels or not enough for any given thing.
I did discover Voidpunk during all of this, which was my "there's a name for it" moment.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2022-09-23, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Thanks for replying, I did actually want to know where you were coming from, even if my post was all about me :p
There are a few different ideas to discuss in your post, but I'm going to resist the urge to go over them point by point - let me know if you want to hear that bit. For now, I'll skip most of them and come back to them later.
What stood out to me was the way you think of your attractions to people: you describe them aschildish infatuation or base physical attraction
(And if I'm right, well fair enough, you don't have to like your feelings. I certainly have plenty I don't like.)
I'm going to tease apart your phrasing a little more:
I have never been attracted to someone in a way that wasn't <snip>
(Story of my life, by the way. I realised recently that every single thought, feeling and even principle I have ever had can be boiled down to the idea of "not enough". )
Because if you're feeling that way, I'll just point out that there's a difference in concept between
- "What I have/had isn't everything" there is more out there
- "What I feel/felt is not the same as other people's feelings" different things for different people
- "What I have/had wasn't enough" you actually want something more
- "What I have/had wasn't good enough" you don't like your past experiences
- "I wasn't good enough" you don't like who you were
- "They weren't good enough" who you were with, wasn't right for you
- "I'm not good enough" you don't like who you are.
Personally I've lived that last one all my life, and I'm struggling to turn it around. It isn't actually a logical conclusion from the first one though. None of them are - they're all different things. So while the first one will always be true, it's important to remember that the rest might not be. Which ones are true for you right now?Last edited by theangelJean; 2022-09-23 at 07:26 PM.
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2022-09-23, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Honestly, I legitimately don't care.
Like... "I've never felt genuine romantic feelings for someone" and "I'm sexually attracted to people but don't think I'll ever actually do anything about it" are just kind of... Observations I've made?
Like, I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2022-09-24, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Okay! I was totally projecting my own stuff on what you wrote, then.
Well, if it's not a big deal to you, then I can see why you aren't fussed about labels. You don't need a label to be you. Like I said, language is for communication, and if "I've never felt genuine romantic feelings for someone" and "I'm sexually attracted to people but don't think I'll ever actually do anything about it" work well enough in saying what you want to say, you don't need to boil them down to one word. I can't see anyone demanding "so what does that make you?"
If you want to know whether there are people who feel the same way you do (the answer is always yes, by the way) I am guessing that you could indeed find them in a group of people who label themselves Ace. But that's just my guess.I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.
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2022-10-21, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Eastern US
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Just a small rant...
I'm a public defender. The annual conference of all PDs in the state was this week. At the conference, there are 1-hour long sessions led by other attorneys (usually other PDs) with an interest in the topic. Although I didn't realize it until I got there Thursday, one of the breakout sessions that afternoon involved how to work with and represent transgender and NB juvenile clients. I had signed up for a different class at that time, but my boss (who knows I'm trans) went. I asked him later what was discussed, and was disgusted with how low level and petty the class was. My boss summed it up as "ask what name and pronouns they use. The word 'tranny' is offensive. Don't ask about their genitalia."
What made this extremely frustrating is that at the end of September, the governor of state released recommended guidelines for public schools that "would require transgender students to use school facilities and programs matching their 'biological sex.' Parents would have to give approval for teachers and other staff members to refer to students by a different name or pronoun at school, and families would have to provide legal documentation to change a student’s name and gender on official school records." (quotes from the Washington Post article about the walkouts.) The policy also requires teachers, guidance counselors, and other school officials to inform parents when a student comes out to the school official. This led to walkouts of students across the state.
This policy and the walkouts would have been PERFECT topics of discussion in the class. Instead, they were barely touched on and not discussed. I am LIVID. Sure, as PDs, we don't get involved in school-related matters unless they involve a crime. But this proposed policy and the consequences if it goes into effect can provide background if and when the consequences rise to the level of the juvenile justice system. (And they will. Bullied students retaliate. Parents charged with child abandonment for kicking out their queer child. Etc.)Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2022-10-21, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2022-10-22, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Eastern US
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
My boss said the same thing. In 25 years of doing this job, he could not recall a single time the genitals of the client were relevant. (I can only think of 1 circumstance where they would be - if someone alleges a man did something with his penis and that man turns out to be a transman who has not had bottom surgery.)
Oh, and I forgot to mention it above, but there was another relevant topic of discussion. (Well, maybe relevant, since the talk dealt with the juvenile justice system. But it could be expended to juveniles.) A transwoman won a case at the federal circuit (one level below the US Supreme Court) holding that it was a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act to house her with male inmates. She was originally housed with women, then when it was discovered she was in transition, they housed her with men, refused to give her hormones (that she had been on for 15 years), would not give her a bra, and had her strip searched* by male corrections officers.
* As I understand it, strip searching is common in jails and prisons. That she was strip searched was not a violation. That she was strip searched by men rather than women was the violation.Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2022-10-28, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
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2022-10-29, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
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2022-10-29, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2022-10-30, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Some rainly old island
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
My first guess would be that the recommended treatment for gender dysphoria (which is how some institutions insist in defining being trans) is allowing someone to transition, so blocking someone from treatment for it would be the same as blocking treatment for any other ailment.
Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)
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2022-10-31, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
I (Trigger Warning For mentions of past traumas)
shouldn’t I be able to move on after thirty yearsSpoilerdon’t know what to do. I’m living through the after math of abusive ABA therapy, Conversion therapy, and child grooming. I’m 38 but I feel so guilty about still hurting over this.Last edited by ArlEammon; 2022-10-31 at 07:14 PM.
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2022-10-31, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Eastern US
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Quotes are from the 4th Cir holding. As it has not yet been "published" (legalese for given an official citation), I cannot include a full cite.
Originally Posted by Fourth CircuitOriginally Posted by Fourth Circuit
The Court goes to the DSM to analyze "gender identity disorder" and "gender dysphoria." Gender Identity Disorder was used in the DSM in 1990, when the latest version of the ADA was passed. The most up-to-date DSM has removed "gender identity disorder" and inserted "gender dysphoria." This is because of new scientific understanding of the issue.
Originally Posted by Fourth CircuitOriginally Posted by Fourth CircuitOriginally Posted by Fourth CircuitOriginally Posted by Fourth CircuitOriginally Posted by Fourth Circuit
The Court then points out that a law that excludes transgender people as a class be discriminatory under the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. A previous 4th Circuit holding has already held that laws discriminating against trans people are entitled to review under intermediate scrutiny. (The middle level, between "rational basis," and "strict scrutiny.")
Originally Posted by Fourth CircuitHello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2022-11-01, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
SpoilerThat's awful. I'm sorry you had to go through all that. Unfortunately, if traumatogenic symptoms don't dissipate soon after a traumatic injury, those symptoms usually linger. Treatment and management are possible, but time itself won't close those wounds. It's not your fault you're not able to move on. I hope you're able to find healing in whatever form (counseling, community, something else) it may take.
Incidentally, as you may know, ABA and conversion therapy are historically tied. It might mean that working on one trauma may help alleviate symptoms from the other. Maybe that's a reason for hope.
Oh, I see. Does the official explanation jive with your original intuitions?
Gotcha! Yeah, it seems like that was the official explanation.
I appreciate the thorough explanation and the link! (And the work that you do as a public defender. ) I guess the short story is that gender dysphoria counts as a disability under the ADA. I wasn't previously aware that was a thing.
Also, god, all those awful people doing awful transphobic things in the holding. I'm glad she's not there anymore.
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2022-11-01, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2022-11-02, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Interesting.
So, just checking if I understand this correctly...
"Gender identity disorder" is no longer considered to be a category of mental illness, which means that treatments aimed at "changing the mind" are not valid.
Gender dysphoria is considered a medical condition, which justifies the availability of medical treatment such as hormones and surgery.
If you identify as a different gender from the one you were assigned at birth, you can identify as transgender. If this does not actually bother you, in theory you can be transgender without suffering from gender dysphoria?
Maybe in a different society, someday that might be a thing. When gender norms aren't so strongly baked into society, and if your body doesn't match your identity, some people might find that has a noticeable effect on their lives, and others might ... not?
But in the meantime, at least medicalising the condition serves to legitimise the hormone/surgical treatments, to the point where they can be considered treatment for a chronic condition which requires accommodations. Maybe they might even acknowledge that misgendering people and other transphobic behaviours can exacerbate the condition!
I'm trying to see a parallel with the way that disability advocates frame "disability" as a societal problem requiring structural change. But maybe it's exactly the other way around.I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.
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2022-11-03, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
Oh, okay. Cool cool.
Yeah, I think "exactly the other way around" is right. You're referring to the social model of disability, right? The legal argument does seem to be much more medical model–based (whatever that medical model is).Last edited by TaiLiu; 2022-11-03 at 09:54 PM. Reason: why do Â's keep popping up?
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2022-11-12, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Arizona
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
It still kind of amazes me that humans can change genders, even five years after I did it myself.
LGBTitp
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2022-11-13, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.
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2022-11-15, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Arizona
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
I suppose it’s just how perfect some of the changes are; like it’s impossible to tell with a lot of people that they ever been different. I feel like if I z went back and talked to some of my old acquaintances, they would find it nearly impossible to recognize me now.
EDIT: Actually, more to the point, gender is one of those things that everyone has mostly assumed to be a permanent part of all of us, and knowing that it can actually be changed has a certain wow factor to it as a result.Last edited by Dire Moose; 2022-11-16 at 11:17 AM.
LGBTitp
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2022-11-17, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Arizona
- Gender
Re: LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong
So on November 17, 2017, I took my very first dose of estrogen. One of the best decisions of my life, and five years, a pair of D-cup boobs, and my butt no longer fitting my old boy pants later and I absolutely don’t regret it.
And yet, it doesn’t feel like it’s been that long. Even though I’m usually one of the longest-transitioned in the queer friend groups I’ve been with and looked up to as an inspiration somehow, I still feel like I’ve barely even started and hardly even know what I’m doing.LGBTitp