LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong

[BladeofObliviom]

Congrats! That's a big step.

I'm about to go badger some pharmacists in person because my hrt orders have been getting inexplicably canceled for a month.

[Kesnit]

Anyone in Europe or another first world country interested in a green card marriage to help me out of the UK?

This is probably a joke. However, what you are asking for is totally illegal.

[TaiLiu]

Anyone in Europe or another first world country interested in a green card marriage to help me out of the UK?

Sorry that things are so stressful where you live. That sucks.

I've made this with FaceApp and I'm trying to figure out what changes I can make to shift from one to another with makeup, clothes, posture and so on.



I'd prefer more of a spectrum to look at and see which one is me at the time :P But this is helping, I can look at it and see where I recognize myself more at least.

It's interesting that the biggest difference is the hair. I guess the best way to manipulate that is via wigs or something.

In other news: I finally started HRT! Super happy to take this step after so long.

Congrats!

I'm about to go badger some pharmacists in person because my hrt orders have been getting inexplicably canceled for a month.

Dang, that sucks. Do you do injections? I hear that injection-style HRT often runs into shortages.

[Lissou]

It's interesting that the biggest difference is the hair. I guess the best way to manipulate that is via wigs or something.

Yes, I am considering a wig for the feminine version. I have an undercut and I am learning to use hairpins to tie my hair to look like I have a more masculine haircut.
Other than that, I think making my eyebrows thicker with help the more masculine effect. I of course can't change the bone structure of my face but some makeup might help it look more feminine or more masculine and I'm going to look into that if I end up deciding to buy makeup.
I also heard that putting some foundation on one's lips could help masculinize a feminine face to make it more androgynous. Another thing to test I guess :)

[BladeofObliviom]

Dang, that sucks. Do you do injections? I hear that injection-style HRT often runs into shortages.

I forgot to follow up here, I use patches. I did get them though.

[Lycunadari]

I'm also pursuing top surgery at the moment, though I'm not that far in my "journey" (mostly because of social anxiety). The main thing I'm currently stuck at is choosing which clinic to go to- I've narrowed it down to 5:
1) would be my first choice, but it's fairly far away (~5hour train ride) and because it's one of the most popular clinics, they have long wait times. But I've seen a lot of great result pictures from them*, and I know they are explicitly nonbinary-inclusive and I know they also do surgery for self-pay patients (like me, my insurance is very nb-unfriendly and wont pay for my surgery).
2) is also far away (same city as no.1), is nb-friendly and takes people without insurance, but I haven't been able to find any pictures. I've at least heard people be happy about their results at that clinic.
3) is again far away (and also in the same city as 1 and 2, no idea why they have so many clinics). Good results, but I have no idea how nb-friendly they are, if they take self-pay patients and if they are even still doing top surgery for trans people (their website only mentions breast reduction surgeries for cis women).
4 and 5) are much closer (less than 1 hour train ride) but I haven't been able to find any pictures of results and no information if they take nonbinary and self-pay patients, and generally no reports from anyone who went there.

So going to 4 or 5 would be much more practical, and also cheaper (less travel costs, easier to get there in case I need corrections, easier to get home after surgery etc). But having no idea if they're actually good is of course a big negative. I'm sure I'd be shown pictures in any preliminary talks, but they'll obviously only show pictures of good results, so I wont know if the majority of their patients are actually unhappy with their results. Finding out if they take nonbinary and self-pay patients should be easy enough, once I manage to wrangle my social anxiety to write them an email.

I'll also have to find out if I need a statement from my therapist to get surgery at any of those clinics- all of them state on their website that it's required, but I know from some people that not all clinics actually require it (so more email writing is necessary). And then I have to ask my therapist to write me such a statement, which I'm not sure she will do- she has very little experience with trans topics, and I haven't talked much about my dysphoria with her. (More emails.) If she doesn't, I either have to pick one of the clinics that doesn't need one, or find another therapist who's willing to write a statement without having to actually do months of therapy there...

This whole thing would be so much easier and less stressful without disabling social anxiety.


* there's an instagram account where people can submit pictures of their surgery results, including what clinic did their surgery, and while most people probably only like to show pictures of their chests if they are happy with their results, there are also plenty of "warning" posts with pictures from people whose chests don't look great after surgery. Unfortunately, they have lots and lots of pictures of the few main clinics that do top surgery, and only a few to none from all the other clinics.

[TaiLiu]

Yes, I am considering a wig for the feminine version. I have an undercut and I am learning to use hairpins to tie my hair to look like I have a more masculine haircut.
Other than that, I think making my eyebrows thicker with help the more masculine effect. I of course can't change the bone structure of my face but some makeup might help it look more feminine or more masculine and I'm going to look into that if I end up deciding to buy makeup.
I also heard that putting some foundation on one's lips could help masculinize a feminine face to make it more androgynous. Another thing to test I guess :)

Oh, cool! Hope the tests go well. I took the lazy route and just do hormones.

I forgot to follow up here, I use patches. I did get them though.

Oh, yay!

I'm also pursuing top surgery at the moment, though I'm not that far in my "journey" (mostly because of social anxiety). The main thing I'm currently stuck at is choosing which clinic to go to- I've narrowed it down to 5:
1) would be my first choice, but it's fairly far away (~5hour train ride) and because it's one of the most popular clinics, they have long wait times. But I've seen a lot of great result pictures from them*, and I know they are explicitly nonbinary-inclusive and I know they also do surgery for self-pay patients (like me, my insurance is very nb-unfriendly and wont pay for my surgery).
2) is also far away (same city as no.1), is nb-friendly and takes people without insurance, but I haven't been able to find any pictures. I've at least heard people be happy about their results at that clinic.
3) is again far away (and also in the same city as 1 and 2, no idea why they have so many clinics). Good results, but I have no idea how nb-friendly they are, if they take self-pay patients and if they are even still doing top surgery for trans people (their website only mentions breast reduction surgeries for cis women).
4 and 5) are much closer (less than 1 hour train ride) but I haven't been able to find any pictures of results and no information if they take nonbinary and self-pay patients, and generally no reports from anyone who went there.

So going to 4 or 5 would be much more practical, and also cheaper (less travel costs, easier to get there in case I need corrections, easier to get home after surgery etc). But having no idea if they're actually good is of course a big negative. I'm sure I'd be shown pictures in any preliminary talks, but they'll obviously only show pictures of good results, so I wont know if the majority of their patients are actually unhappy with their results. Finding out if they take nonbinary and self-pay patients should be easy enough, once I manage to wrangle my social anxiety to write them an email.

I'll also have to find out if I need a statement from my therapist to get surgery at any of those clinics- all of them state on their website that it's required, but I know from some people that not all clinics actually require it (so more email writing is necessary). And then I have to ask my therapist to write me such a statement, which I'm not sure she will do- she has very little experience with trans topics, and I haven't talked much about my dysphoria with her. (More emails.) If she doesn't, I either have to pick one of the clinics that doesn't need one, or find another therapist who's willing to write a statement without having to actually do months of therapy there...

This whole thing would be so much easier and less stressful without disabling social anxiety.


* there's an instagram account where people can submit pictures of their surgery results, including what clinic did their surgery, and while most people probably only like to show pictures of their chests if they are happy with their results, there are also plenty of "warning" posts with pictures from people whose chests don't look great after surgery. Unfortunately, they have lots and lots of pictures of the few main clinics that do top surgery, and only a few to none from all the other clinics.

Oh, that's a tough choice. My inclination would be to go for the ones that I'm more confident will result in a better outcome, since it's my only body and all. But obviously I'm not you.

Sucks that the insurance won't cover non-binary people, though. Like... what exactly is the difference between top surgery for a trans man and top surgery for a non-binary person?

[Lycunadari]

Oh, that's a tough choice. My inclination would be to go for the ones that I'm more confident will result in a better outcome, since it's my only body and all. But obviously I'm not you.

I've now written emails to all of them, and even got replies very quickly-
1) was an auto-reply that the person in charge is currently not available; I've already heard from other people that they are very hard to reach in general (someone wrote they tried for weeks to call several times every day after they didn't get replies to several emails...) and have long wait times, so I've mostly given up on them.
2) replied that their wait times are 6-8 weeks (so short!), and that I wouldn't even need a letter from my therapist! So I still don't know how good their results are, but they'll show me pictures if I decide to come to a consultation. I'll probably do that.
3) didn't answer any of my questions, just wrote that I can call them. They also misgendered me So no thanks.
4) I have by now found pictures from them, and their results are very uneven- some great, but a few very bad. They have 5 to 8 months wait times, and I would need a letter from my therapist. So I'll probably wont go there.
5) no reply from them yet.

I'll still take some time to consider, but I'll probably call 2) to schedule a consultation. The distance still sucks, but so far they really look like the best option. If I really don't like the pictures I'll see I can still go somewhere else.

Sucks that the insurance won't cover non-binary people, though. Like... what exactly is the difference between top surgery for a trans man and top surgery for a non-binary person?

There actually was a court case last year where a nonbinary person tried to sue their insurance to pay for their surgery, but they lost. The reason was that "there's no clear/uniform way intersex people look, and without a clear 'target' presentation nonbinary people don't have a reason to transition, so insurance doesn't have to pay for it". It was... really bad . The judge clearly didn't know what he was talking about, conflating nonbinary and intersex people, not understanding that "passing" isn't the only (or even main) reason for people to transition... but since then the only option for nonbinary people to get their transition costs covered is by aggressively lying about their actual identity (which isn't an option for me, because I'm already legally nonbinary).

[Lissou]

Oh, cool! Hope the tests go well. I took the lazy route and just do hormones.

I would so do that, but I'm worried that would just shift the disphoria to my feminine days, and since my face is actually pretty androgynous already... I'll work on it, even if nobody can tell it will make me feel better for myself I think.
I darkened my eyebrows a bit the other day and they looked more full, it felt more masculine to me. Haven't tried much else yet.

[TaiLiu]

I've now written emails to all of them, and even got replies very quickly-
1) was an auto-reply that the person in charge is currently not available; I've already heard from other people that they are very hard to reach in general (someone wrote they tried for weeks to call several times every day after they didn't get replies to several emails...) and have long wait times, so I've mostly given up on them.
2) replied that their wait times are 6-8 weeks (so short!), and that I wouldn't even need a letter from my therapist! So I still don't know how good their results are, but they'll show me pictures if I decide to come to a consultation. I'll probably do that.
3) didn't answer any of my questions, just wrote that I can call them. They also misgendered me So no thanks.
4) I have by now found pictures from them, and their results are very uneven- some great, but a few very bad. They have 5 to 8 months wait times, and I would need a letter from my therapist. So I'll probably wont go there.
5) no reply from them yet.

I'll still take some time to consider, but I'll probably call 2) to schedule a consultation. The distance still sucks, but so far they really look like the best option. If I really don't like the pictures I'll see I can still go somewhere else.

Hoping that #2 has encouraging pics! It's encouraging that they don't require a therapist letter.

There actually was a court case last year where a nonbinary person tried to sue their insurance to pay for their surgery, but they lost. The reason was that "there's no clear/uniform way intersex people look, and without a clear 'target' presentation nonbinary people don't have a reason to transition, so insurance doesn't have to pay for it". It was... really bad . The judge clearly didn't know what he was talking about, conflating nonbinary and intersex people, not understanding that "passing" isn't the only (or even main) reason for people to transition... but since then the only option for nonbinary people to get their transition costs covered is by aggressively lying about their actual identity (which isn't an option for me, because I'm already legally nonbinary).

Wow, that reasoning is frustrating. A really bizarre bias.

I would so do that, but I'm worried that would just shift the disphoria to my feminine days, and since my face is actually pretty androgynous already... I'll work on it, even if nobody can tell it will make me feel better for myself I think.
I darkened my eyebrows a bit the other day and they looked more full, it felt more masculine to me. Haven't tried much else yet.

Cool, glad to hear that experimenting is going well.

[Rydiro]

The particular faulty assumptions here are, I believe, 'sex/gender is solely related to genes/genitals' and 'sex/gender is binary'.

Do you see biological sex as a spectrum with 'male' and 'female' at the ends? Or what is your understanding?

PS: I dislike the word spectrum, cause it implies a one-dimensional sliding scale. As if you could reduce complex biology to a single number. "73% female + 27% male"

[Anonymouswizard]

Do you see biological sex as a spectrum with 'male' and 'female' at the ends? Or what is your understanding?

PS: I dislike the word spectrum, cause it implies a one-dimensional sliding scale. As if you could reduce complex biology to a single number. "73% female + 27% male"

Biological sex is complicated and can be 'not male' and 'not female' in a variety of different ways. I'm not commenting past that because my knowledge of intersex conditions boils down to 'wikipedia and I've met someone with one'.

[World Illusion]

I have a funny anecdote, i went to a new doctor to refill my hormones (because i moved recently) but i couldnt remember the dosages exactly.

so anyway my spironolactone tablets are now the size of a thumbnail... theyre like twice as big so i can just cut them in half, but still funny.

[TaiLiu]

I have a funny anecdote, i went to a new doctor to refill my hormones (because i moved recently) but i couldnt remember the dosages exactly.

so anyway my spironolactone tablets are now the size of a thumbnail... theyre like twice as big so i can just cut them in half, but still funny.

Oh, they gave you double your usual dose? That is kinda funny.

[ArlEammon]

I don't know how to deal with all these emotions from my conversion therapy. They all hurt.

[theangelJean]

I don't know how to deal with all these emotions from my conversion therapy. They all hurt.

Firstly, I'm hoping you are talking about conversion therapy in the past, not in the present. If it's the latter, get help from someone else.

On delaying with past traumas: yes, it hurts. This is in a general sense because my trauma history isn't LGBTA-related, but I found the process to be somewhat like grieving. For me the denial phase was really long and kind of hard to discern except in hindsight - I was generally stressed and uneasy but don't realise the nature of the trauma which was bothering me. I went through a long phase of telling psychiatrists/psychologists that I had led a charmed life and I had zero idea why I was so sad, I just was. Later on I got better at describing situations where I was stressed, but still couldn't say why.

When you get to the part where you make a connection between the trauma and your stressful feelings, it can be really overwhelming. I had a few sessions where I came out in tears, telling myself that I should be feeling better for having talked through that, and why didn't I? In the scheme of things, if you are talking about conversion therapy, then I would expect your emotions and pain to be huge.

Yes, you were hurt, people hurt you and at the same time they told you they were doing the best they could for you. It's awful and I am sorry you went through that. And now that you are dealing with the emotional fallout, you can't just turn it off, even though it feels like that would be really useful right now.

Hang in there, find people who will be kind to you, and just breathe. Your feelings might be terribly inconvenient to be going through right now, but they are your feelings and they are valid. And they won't last forever, either. It will take work, but eventually you will move from feeling your pain at the front of your mind, to the point where you can say "I was hurt" and feel like it is actually in the past. But don't expect that to happen right now.

And on the practical side, see if you can make some space for yourself, for a while. I mean in terms of taking a little time off work/school/whatever. "Dealing with past trauma" might not be the easiest thing to explain to others, but you don't actually have to justify your emotions to anyone. All that most people really want to know is "Are you upset because of something I did" and "Are you going to be okay". If they're really nice you will get offers of "anything I can do to help" - this is the place where you ask for space, and take it.

Best wishes as you move through this.

[Rydiro]

I don't know how to deal with all these emotions from my conversion therapy. They all hurt.

You do not need to confront all the emotions right away. Its okay if you take your time.

Ideally, you confront them in manageable chunks, sharing them with someone else, when you are ready (Usually in therapy).

Until then its totally okay not to tackle them. And its okay that you don't know how to do it right now.

[TaiLiu]

I don't know how to deal with all these emotions from my conversion therapy. They all hurt.

That's hard. I'm sorry. I wish you never had to go through that.

[Lissou]

I was supposed to get top surgery on the 25th. But on the 4th I did bloodwork and got rushed to the ER with 4g fasting blood sugar (normal is below 1.25). I got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and it wouldn't be safe to get surgery until it's been under control for at least a couple of months, so I'm getting bloodwork done again in 2-3 months and if everything is good, then we can schedule a new date.

I'm bummed, although it's better we found it before the surgery as there could have been dangerous complications. On top of that I lost my health insurance for unrelated reasons and it's giving me some time to get a new one (in France diabetes is covered 100% even without health insurance so it's not affecting me financially, but the surgery is only partially covered even with insurance).

It's looking like I might not get my top surgery this year, as even if my numbers are normal the waitlist is long. I was really looking foward to it so any hugs are welcome. It is what it is but it still sucks.

[Lycunadari]

I was supposed to get top surgery on the 25th. But on the 4th I did bloodwork and got rushed to the ER with 4g fasting blood sugar (normal is below 1.25). I got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and it wouldn't be safe to get surgery until it's been under control for at least a couple of months, so I'm getting bloodwork done again in 2-3 months and if everything is good, then we can schedule a new date.

I'm bummed, although it's better we found it before the surgery as there could have been dangerous complications. On top of that I lost my health insurance for unrelated reasons and it's giving me some time to get a new one (in France diabetes is covered 100% even without health insurance so it's not affecting me financially, but the surgery is only partially covered even with insurance).

It's looking like I might not get my top surgery this year, as even if my numbers are normal the waitlist is long. I was really looking foward to it so any hugs are welcome. It is what it is but it still sucks.

Oh no, that sucks. I hope you'll get a new surgery date soon! *many hugs*

[TaiLiu]

I was supposed to get top surgery on the 25th. But on the 4th I did bloodwork and got rushed to the ER with 4g fasting blood sugar (normal is below 1.25). I got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and it wouldn't be safe to get surgery until it's been under control for at least a couple of months, so I'm getting bloodwork done again in 2-3 months and if everything is good, then we can schedule a new date.

I'm bummed, although it's better we found it before the surgery as there could have been dangerous complications. On top of that I lost my health insurance for unrelated reasons and it's giving me some time to get a new one (in France diabetes is covered 100% even without health insurance so it's not affecting me financially, but the surgery is only partially covered even with insurance).

It's looking like I might not get my top surgery this year, as even if my numbers are normal the waitlist is long. I was really looking foward to it so any hugs are welcome. It is what it is but it still sucks.

Glad they caught the diabetes and hope your top surgery date is soon soon soon!

[gomipile]

I find what feels like a good way to phrase a problem I've been having.

A web search reveals a reddit thread with a very relevant title asking the same question I am!

The thread has 0 comments.

[BisectedBrioche]

I find what feels like a good way to phrase a problem I've been having.

A web search reveals a reddit thread with a very relevant title asking the same question I am!

The thread has 0 comments.

One of many ways sex and gender are kinda like IT and programming.

[137beth]

Happy pride month!


And by sheer coincidence, also happy day that corporations pretend to start caring about us day!

[Dire Moose]

I’m going to my local comic con for the first time in five years this weekend, and it will be my first time as a girl!

I’m cosplaying the female protagonist from Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen on Saturday and Hermione Granger on Sunday.

[TaiLiu]

Happy pride month!

And by sheer coincidence, also happy day that corporations pretend to start caring about us day!

Happy pride! And yeah, that's right.

I’m going to my local comic con for the first time in five years this weekend, and it will be my first time as a girl!

I’m cosplaying the female protagonist from Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen on Saturday and Hermione Granger on Sunday.

Have fun! I think the FRLG protagonist looks really cool.

[AzureViolet]

It's looking like I might not get my top surgery this year, as even if my numbers are normal the waitlist is long. I was really looking foward to it so any hugs are welcome. It is what it is but it still sucks.

Oof, that sucks. I've heard how long the processing for that sort of thing takes even without any medical complications. -.- Well, I don't know about France in particular, but doesn't sound all too different than the other places I've heard about... Fingers crossed that your blood sugar levels stabilise super soon so you can get the process rolling again!

I’m going to my local comic con for the first time in five years this weekend, and it will be my first time as a girl!

I’m cosplaying the female protagonist from Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen on Saturday and Hermione Granger on Sunday.

Oooh exciting!! I guess it already happened by now, so I hope you had fun! :D

And yee happy pride month everybody, whatever particular flavour(s) of the rainbow you are

[Kesnit]

Just a small happy/brag. Last fall, I applied to be a text/chat counselor with The Trevor Project. Due to scheduling issues on both ends, I didn't get to start training until March. May 28 I finished my training. Yesterday I did my first shift as a full crisis counselor.

[ArlEammon]

My internal homophobia is very bad right now. And I really hate myself atm. It's worse for me because it's Pride Month and I feel like a total loser.

[TaiLiu]

And yee happy pride month everybody, whatever particular flavour(s) of the rainbow you are

I like how this sounds vaguely like an advertisement for skittles.

Just a small happy/brag. Last fall, I applied to be a text/chat counselor with The Trevor Project. Due to scheduling issues on both ends, I didn't get to start training until March. May 28 I finished my training. Yesterday I did my first shift as a full crisis counselor.

Congrats! How was it?

My internal homophobia is very bad right now. And I really hate myself atm. It's worse for me because it's Pride Month and I feel like a total loser.

Definitely don't feel like it's your fault. We live in homophobic societies, so it's difficult not to internalize it. It's definitely hard work to change it and keep it changed.