LGBTAIitp Part 60: Still Going Strong

[TaiLiu]

People keep saying this, but I'm not sure why they believe it. You can absolutely install both on your phone. It doesn't work for the garbage Youtube app but you can just access Youtube via your browser.

Yeah, I know. I have adblock for my phone's browser. The problem with accessing YouTube through the browser is that the subtitles disappear when you expand the video. I need the subtitles to understand what's being said, so I gotta use the YouTube app. The ads come as a package deal with accessibility, I guess.

[Rynjin]

Ah, yeah, that's a bigger issue. I typically hit the "Desktop site" toggle for Youtube because the mobile version loses so much functionality (like Shuffle doesn't work on a playlist either). Looks like captions work that way as well.

[TaiLiu]

Ah, yeah, that's a bigger issue. I typically hit the "Desktop site" toggle for Youtube because the mobile version loses so much functionality (like Shuffle doesn't work on a playlist either). Looks like captions work that way as well.

Oh, for your mobile browser? I never thought about doing that. I may experiment with that and see if it'll preserve the subtitles. I don't think so, but I'll be very thankful if it works.

[Rynjin]

I tested it out last night and it seemed to work, though the subtitles do take up a huge amount of screen space on mobile.

[TaiLiu]

I tested it out last night and it seemed to work, though the subtitles do take up a huge amount of screen space on mobile.

Gotcha! Thanks. If they aren't too terribly large, I might watch my videos that way from now on.

Of course, YouTube is now blocking ad-blockers, so this is probably just a temporary solution.

[Rynjin]

They can try lol, just like others have tried before. It never works for long, because any "anti-block" they put in place can always be circumvented.

[TaiLiu]

They can try lol, just like others have tried before. It never works for long, because any "anti-block" they put in place can always be circumvented.

I hope you're right. Of course, it's possible that their anti-adblocking tactics will make it so only the technically competent can bypass it. Which will lock out a lotta people.

I experimented with desktop mode on my phone. Unfortunately, it looks like YouTube on my mobile browser bypasses my adblock. Which is too bad, but also my phone's adblock is unrobust compared to something like uBlock Origin.

[Rydiro]

Today I watched an thirty second anti-trans ad. Nothing unexpected: regretful detransitioners, parents worried about their kids, complaints about free speech.

I wonder how much influence this ad campaign will have on transphobia and trans people. It's a little concerning.

Two questions, answers welcome from anybody.
Do you think these concerns are 100% invalid?
Do you think polarization is increasing?

[Mx.Silver]

Two questions, answers welcome from anybody.
Do you think these concerns are 100% invalid?
Do you think polarization is increasing?

In answer to the second: demonstrably yes. While it's a bit difficult to list direct examples while staying inside board rules, if you've been following LGBT rights issues at all, you'd know that the current explicitly anti-trans pushes are a very recent phenomenon and have been getting increasingly strident as time's passed. Especially in the face of increased public tans acceptance.

As for the first, if you'll permit me to answer a question with another question: do you think the concerns put forward by the anti-gay-rights campaigners of the 80s and 90s were 100% invalid? Because unfortunately this is very much the same playbook being used this time around.

[Rydiro]

In answer to the second: demonstrably yes. [...]

As for the first, if you'll permit me to answer a question with another question: do you think the concerns put forward by the anti-gay-rights campaigners of the 80s and 90s were 100% invalid? Because unfortunately this is very much the same playbook being used this time around.

I barely know anything about 80s/90s politics. And not much about the current campaigns either. I hoped to get a less political, perhaps nuanced viewpoint on the whole range of opinions.
You know, to lessen polarization a bit.
Perhaps I didn't phrase my first question very well.

[Rater202]

I barely know anything about 80s/90s politics. And not much about the current campaigns either. I hoped to get a less political, perhaps nuanced viewpoint on the whole range of opinions.
You know, to lessen polarization a bit.
Perhaps I didn't phrase my first question very well.

Yeah, urns out that most biggots don't have much in the way of nuance to their opinions and any excuses they use to hold them up fall apart the second you look at them with a critical eye.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, urns out that most biggots don't have much in the way of nuance to their opinions and any excuses they use to hold them up fall apart the second you look at them with a critical eye.

Hence why TERF Prime, author of the Uber popular 'wizard slavery is great' books, refuses to engage with anybody actually trying to debate her.

[Mx.Silver]

I barely know anything about 80s/90s politics. And not much about the current campaigns either. I hoped to get a less political, perhaps nuanced viewpoint on the whole range of opinions.

I would suggest probably not using a discussion of anti-trans attack ads as the jumping-off point, in that case
People commissioning attack ads aren't coming at a topic in a good faith spirit of debate: they're trying to effect change in policy and/or public opinion.

That's the point I was getting at with the answer to your first question: the validity of the "concerns" raised by people commissioning and running attack ads does not typically even matter that much to them, just so long as it could sound vaguely reasonable to someone not informed about the topic.
If what you want is a more general overview of the state of trans rights movement and the opposition to it, this is not going to be a good place to start.

I will also say that, in general, it's quite difficult to get a comprehensive answer to questions about civil rights issues that isn't in some way political. Civil rights are fundamentally political topics, as are their opposition movements and that is very much the case wrt trans rights.

You know, to lessen polarization a bit.

You're not going to make a difference on that front in a forum thread, I'm afraid. The 'polarization' here is the result of much larger, political, issues.
It also has a body count attached to it.



tl;dr: if you have questions about trans issues then you'd be best off just asking those straight-out.

[Rydiro]

You're not going to make a difference on that front in a forum thread, I'm afraid. The 'polarization' here is the result of much larger, political, issues.

I like to think that talking to individuals in a mutually understanding way can often make a difference.
Not that that is an easy thing to do, but yeah.

[Rynjin]

Problem is, you're not trying to talk down an individual. You're trying to talk down a mob.

Standard mob tactics are divide and conquer. Break into increasingly smaller groups until they all spontaneously realize they're alone.

At that point, maybe you can have the conversation. Until then, busting up large groups is the primary goal.

[Lissou]

Yesterday for the International Nonbinary Day I came out as nonbinary on facebook. I only got a couple comments and a couple private messages, but they were all positive, and two of them (so 50%) mentioned not being surprised, which was nice.

I don't know if the people who didn't respond or react didn't see it, saw it and didn't care, or something else, but if anyone was annoyed, judgemental or whatever, they decided to keep their mouth shut about it, which is nice.

I'm relieved, I didn't know what to expect, especially from some people I've known for upwards of 25 years, so only getting positive reactions is definitely a huge relief.

As for my diabetes, it's getting under control, I don't have a new date right now but I'm using the delay to get in shape and slowly change my wardrobe and presentation to reflect me better without breaking the bank.

[enderlord99]

Being mildly sex-averse, having a short temper, and being unable to recognize jokes is a bad combination.

For context, a few months ago, someone jokingly tried to flirt with me* and then I said "no" and they did it again, but phrased more humorously, and then I said something that I... very much regret.

*that's an oversimplification, but not wrong.

[TaiLiu]

Do you think these concerns are 100% invalid?
Do you think polarization is increasing?

I’m not sure what you mean by “100% invalid” or even what it means for a concern to be valid or invalid. (Logical validity? But that’s a binary thing.)

The second question is an empirical question that requires empirical evidence. I’m unfamiliar with that evidence, so I dunno.

Yesterday for the International Nonbinary Day I came out as nonbinary on facebook. I only got a couple comments and a couple private messages, but they were all positive, and two of them (so 50%) mentioned not being surprised, which was nice.

I don't know if the people who didn't respond or react didn't see it, saw it and didn't care, or something else, but if anyone was annoyed, judgemental or whatever, they decided to keep their mouth shut about it, which is nice.

I'm relieved, I didn't know what to expect, especially from some people I've known for upwards of 25 years, so only getting positive reactions is definitely a huge relief.

As for my diabetes, it's getting under control, I don't have a new date right now but I'm using the delay to get in shape and slowly change my wardrobe and presentation to reflect me better without breaking the bank.

Congrats on coming out and glad to hear your diabetes stuff is going well.

Being mildly sex-averse, having a short temper, and being unable to recognize jokes is a bad combination.

For context, a few months ago, someone jokingly tried to flirt with me* and then I said "no" and they did it again, but phrased more humorously, and then I said something that I... very much regret.

*that's an oversimplification, but not wrong.

What did you say? Did you tell them off? Whatever the situation is, sorry you’re in it. It sounds stressful.

[enderlord99]

What did you say? Did you tell them off?

Spoiler: content warning: really, really hyperbolic accusation

Show

I said:

There's a word for the type of person who tells someone to do something sexual after they have already said "no" and it begins with an R.

We have since both apologized to each other, and now get along decently well (when we interact at all, anyway) but someone else, a friend of his, keeps holding the interaction over my head.

[Kesnit]

In answer to the second: demonstrably yes. While it's a bit difficult to list direct examples while staying inside board rules, if you've been following LGBT rights issues at all, you'd know that the current explicitly anti-trans pushes are a very recent phenomenon and have been getting increasingly strident as time's passed. Especially in the face of increased public tans acceptance.

As for the first, if you'll permit me to answer a question with another question: do you think the concerns put forward by the anti-gay-rights campaigners of the 80s and 90s were 100% invalid? Because unfortunately this is very much the same playbook being used this time around.

I think your second answer addresses the first. Or put another way, "same song, second verse." In the 40s and 50s, it was the Communists. In the 60s and 70s, it was the feminists. In the 80s and 90s, it was the gays and lesbians. (And to be fair, that stretched into the 2000s.) Now it's trans people.

Everyone wants to be part of the "crowd," which means there has to be someone who is on the "outside." The exact words may change, but the underlying sentiment stays the same.

[TaiLiu]

Spoiler: content warning: really, really hyperbolic accusation

Show

I said:

We have since both apologized to each other, and now get along decently well (when we interact at all, anyway) but someone else, a friend of his, keeps holding the interaction over my head.

Oh, I see. Do you regret it cuz it hurt your friend's feelings? Or cuz your friend's friend is being a real jerk about it? I hope your friend can tell their friend to stop bothering you. You've both forgiven each other.

[Lissou]

I have an appointment with a new surgeon in October to discuss my top surgery. He's been recommended, seems very nice based on videos where he explains different procedures, and is a bit cheaper than some of the other options. As a result even for a first appointment the wait is a bit long (other doctors have availaibilities this month) but I figure it's worth it to get a result I'll be happy with. On top of that, by the appointment my diabetes doctor is confident my diabetes won't get in the way of surgery whatsoever.
I'm using the time I have beforehand to make sure I'm as healthy as possible, lose a bit of weight and gain a bit of muscle if I can, and refine my project. For instance I've given more thoughts about my nipples, I've decided to keep them but to ask for both a placement and an areola size that are more gender-neutral.

I'll keep you informed. It's always frustrating to wait but it feels good to have a date for the next step.
Money-wise, I'm still unsure what I'll do, I might crowdfund some of it, but I'm not too worried about it. People spend more on things that don't change their lives for the better as much. If I end up getting in debt for the first time ever, well there is a first time for everything :)

[enderlord99]

I don't care about gender, don't understand gender, don't care about "understanding gender", don't understand "caring about gender", but do, slightly, care about "understanding 'caring about gender'."

Based on how many levels of abstraction are needed for "gender" to have any relevence to me, I probably don't have one. I may be wrong, though, and nobody (including myself) will ever know.

[TaiLiu]

I have an appointment with a new surgeon in October to discuss my top surgery. He's been recommended, seems very nice based on videos where he explains different procedures, and is a bit cheaper than some of the other options. As a result even for a first appointment the wait is a bit long (other doctors have availaibilities this month) but I figure it's worth it to get a result I'll be happy with. On top of that, by the appointment my diabetes doctor is confident my diabetes won't get in the way of surgery whatsoever.
I'm using the time I have beforehand to make sure I'm as healthy as possible, lose a bit of weight and gain a bit of muscle if I can, and refine my project. For instance I've given more thoughts about my nipples, I've decided to keep them but to ask for both a placement and an areola size that are more gender-neutral.

I'll keep you informed. It's always frustrating to wait but it feels good to have a date for the next step.
Money-wise, I'm still unsure what I'll do, I might crowdfund some of it, but I'm not too worried about it. People spend more on things that don't change their lives for the better as much. If I end up getting in debt for the first time ever, well there is a first time for everything :)

Good luck with the October appointment! And with the personal health project. And also with the money situation.

I don't care about gender, don't understand gender, don't care about "understanding gender", don't understand "caring about gender", but do, slightly, care about "understanding 'caring about gender'."

Based on how many levels of abstraction are needed for "gender" to have any relevence to me, I probably don't have one. I may be wrong, though, and nobody (including myself) will ever know.

Being gender unknown is cool. Just like Mew and a lot of other Pokémon!

[enderlord99]

Being gender unknown is cool.

I wouldn't say it's "cool" or "uncool" because I don't care about it, but... thanks, I guess.

[BisectedBrioche]

I see gender as being kinda like clothes; it's what you choose to wear, sometimes what you're expected to wear, and reflects who you are inside from your choices.

[enderlord99]

I see gender as being kinda like clothes; it's what you choose to wear, sometimes what you're expected to wear, and reflects who you are inside from your choices.

I do indeed also not care about fashion.

I throw on whatever's on top of the pile or drawer, usually.

[Talakeal]

Does anyone know what, if any, athletic records are held by transwomen?

It seems like I see an article every day calling for a ban in transpeople in sports because trans men are "shattering all the records" but if I follow up on any of the specifics they mention it is always something like "held a school record in a single event for a few months".

Obviously the whole thing is just a politicized scare tactic, but I am really curious what the actual truth is behind it?

[TaiLiu]

I wouldn't say it's "cool" or "uncool" because I don't care about it, but... thanks, I guess.

No prob!

Does anyone know what, if any, athletic records are held by transwomen?

It seems like I see an article every day calling for a ban in transpeople in sports because trans men are "shattering all the records" but if I follow up on any of the specifics they mention it is always something like "held a school record in a single event for a few months".

Obviously the whole thing is just a politicized scare tactic, but I am really curious what the actual truth is behind it?

At least twenty-three. One athlete won a bike race and then the biking organization banned trans women.

[Talakeal]

No prob!


At least twenty-three. One athlete won a bike race and then the biking organization banned trans women.

I saw that article as well. The title is misleading though, as only 2 of those actually involve records, and both are national. The rest are just a list of transwomen who won (or in some cases just qualified for) an event.


Honestly, if anything, it looks like transwomen are statistically underrepresented in athletic accomplishments.