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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Does unyeildings body bind get double bonus to damage? Shoulder gets that, and bodybis shoulder plus damage. I think its fine just clarity.

    V2 on superior reflexes(cant comment something on my end messing up). As an offensive bodyguard just moving does next to nothing to reduce threat to your charge. Taking things out the fight does.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Bodyguard-ish Akashic Mark stuff
    For a more tank-y ability, why not flip this around so that the kheshig instead suppresses a specific foe's ability affect anyone but the kheshig? Though this would be a "mark" in some sense, it would ideally differ quite substantially from existing mark (or similar) abilities, and instead work more along the same lines as the 4E Shielding Swordmage's "Aegis" ability (which you're hopefully familiar with).

    At its most basic, this would be something like (values are mere examples):

    "A kheshig can project a field of Akashic energy around a nearby enemy, hampering its ability to harm her allies. As a swift action, the kheshig can mark an enemy she can see within short range. A marked creature takes a -3 penalty on attack rolls that does not target the kheshig, and her allies gain a +3 bonus on saving throws against the marked creature's spells, powers and abilities. These effects also apply to any creatures bonded to the marked enemy (such as an animal companion, special mount, or familiar), and any creatures summoned or called by the marked enemy. The penalty and the bonus increases by +1 at 4th level and at every 4 levels thereafter, to a maximum of -8 and +8 at 20th level. The mark immediately ends if the marked creature is unable to pinpoint the kheshig's exact location, but otherwise remains for 1 minute, until the marked creature dies or is destroyed, or until the kheshig uses this ability to mark another creature, whichever happens first."

    Note that I deliberately chose not to use miss chance or ASF for this basic version, since IME additional die rolls tend to slow combat down.

    A few possible upgrades to the power of the mark (from levels, invested essence, feats, choice of Fighting Styles, etc):
    1. The first time each round a target other than the kheshig takes damage from marked enemy, the damage is reduced by 50% (applied after any DR, resistances etc). This does not stack with similar abilities.
    2. Marked enemy provokes an AoO from the kheshig the first time each round it makes an attack roll against a target other than the kheshig.
    3. Marked enemy's spell/power gain a 20% failure chance, +1% per level of the kheshig, if the spell targets an ally of the kheshig or an area which includes any of the kheshig's allies but not the kheshig.
    4. Marked enemy takes 1d6 damage per 2 levels of the kheshig the first time it targets an ally of the kheshig or an area including an ally but not the kheshig. This damage is taken before the enemy completes the triggering action, and is not reduced by any damage reduction, resistances or immunities the enemy may have.
    5. Marked enemy takes a penalty to CMD equal to the kheshig's veilweaving modifier, and the enemy is treated as if the same size as the kheshig (minimum Medium size) for the purpose of determining its CMD and whether it can be a target of a combat maneuver. (Average monster CMD values and size typically increase faster than many of the kheshig's CMB values will even when supported with feats, items, spells and high ability scores.)
    6. Marked enemy's speed is reduced by 10 feet, and is halved for 1 round if it targets ally/area (as per above).
    7. Marked enemy is outlined as per fairy fire for 1 round if it targets ally/area (as per above).
    8. Marked enemy is bound as per dimensional anchor for 1 round if it targets ally/area (as per above).
    9. The kheshig gains blindsight within short range and a bonus to Perception checks equal to the kheshig's veilweaving modifier, but only for the purpose of detecting a marked enemy.
    10. Prevent the marked enemy from using one specific special attack or ability the kheshig has witnessed the enemy use or knows the enemy can use (through monster lore checks).
    11. Prevent the marked enemy from making its first attack when taking any action allowing it to make multiple attacks.
    12. Allies are protected as per protection from evil against attacks or effects created by the marked enemy, treating the enemy's alignment as evil for this purpose (regardless of its actual alignment).
    13. Allies are protected as per freedom of movement against attacks or effects created by the marked enemy

    A few possible upgrades to the application of the mark (from levels, invested essence, feats, choice of Fighting Styles, etc):
    1. Apply mark as a free action once per round.
    2. Mark enemy when making a successful attack roll against it.
    3. Apply mark as part of rolling initiative, even if surprised.
    4. Mark one or more additional enemies without removing existing marks.
    5. Whenever applying a mark, the mark also applies to a second enemy within 10 feet of the first.
    6. Mark all enemies within 10 feet for 1 round as a move action.
    7. Mark all enemies within a 10 feet radius area in short range for 1 round as a move action.


    I think this would be more fun and suitable as a core feature than a bodyguard-styled one.
    Last edited by upho; 2021-02-24 at 04:10 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    A few comments on the armor veils:
    Superior Reflexes (both versions): ...you may add your veilweaving modifier to your AC and to your CMD, and may substitute your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier for the purposes of calculating your AC and your Constitution Modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier for the purposes of calculating your CMD.
    Somewhere in mid levels at the latest, it appears to me that this will grant an AC clearly superior to that of full plate. For example, assuming a kheshig at 10th level with Str 24 (16 base, 2 race, 2 level, 2 belt, 2 size), Dex 10 (12 base, -2 size), Con 16 (14 base, 2 belt) and Wis 18 (14 base, 2 race, 2 headband), and disregarding any bonuses to AC besides those provided by an armor veil (without enhancement or essence) and the above ability scores:

    Full plate veil: AC 18, touch 9, flat-footed 18; CMD 28 (9 full plate armor to AC, -1 size; 10 bab, 7 Str, +1 size)
    Superior Reflexes: AC 20, touch 20, flat-footed 13; CMD 35 (4 Wis to AC, 7 Str in place of Dex, -1 size; 10 bab, 7 Str, 4 Wis to CMD, 3 Con in place of Dex, +1 size)

    And at 20th level, assuming quite modest scores of Str 36, Dex 10, Con 20 and Wis 24, the full plate veil's AC bonuses remain the same and CMD has increased to 44. In contrast, Superior Reflexes now grants AC 28, touch 28, flat-footed 16 and CMD 56 (7 Wis to AC, 13 Str in place of Dex, -1 size; 20 bab, 13 Str, 7 Wis to CMD, 5 Con in place of Dex, +1 size)

    Especially when considering that there's typically a high incentive for a kheshig to gain uncanny dodge regardless of its effects on AC, and that Superior Reflexes grants AFAICT veil benefits at least equal to those of any of the full plate veils, why would a kheshig choose a full plate veil after 7th level or so?

    Superior Reflexes V2 Creatures who make attacks of opportunities against you must roll twice and take the worse result.

    Essence: Each odd point of essence invested in this veil grants you a +1 bonus to AC versus attacks of opportunity. Each even point of essence invested in this veil grants you a +1 bonus to AC.
    I think enemies using worst of two rolls would've been a nice boon with normal full plate AC, but since the veil grants such substantial AC bonuses, it's worth noting this is close to granting immunity to AoOs.

    Superior Reflexes V2 Chakra Bind (Shoulders): Whenever a creature makes an attack of opportunity against you, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you. Whenever you make an attack of opportunity, roll twice and take the better result.
    At the level when this comes online, it's a very strong defensive trigger for a kheshig focused on AoOs, at least until enemies have figured out that making AoOs against the kheshig is suicide. I'm unsure whether it's too strong though. It's certainly far stronger than the somewhat comparable Panther Style feat chain which requires a minimum of 4 feats, but also far weaker than the barb's CaGM at 12th. Hmm... It might be good idea to limit this to say 1/round and +1/round per 2 essence invested.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    I think reasonable fix here is to either make it add half Str instead of full or maybe limit the maximum for..hmm...essence investment?Every 1 essence allow you to apply up to two Str instead of Dex?This can scale to the same amount,yes,but also will eat essence like crrrazy.
    I do have reasons to assume that by level at which Shoulders bind is available,assuming there are any witnesses at all,anything with a mind greater than of common frog will NOT be taking AoOs against the user.
    And immunity to AoOs or plain AoO prevention is reasonably easy.In fact,it's a very literally first-level spell that doesn't allow a save.
    So while flashy and fun,it's not OP or even that useful,really.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-24 at 11:56 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    I think reasonable fix here is to either make it add half Str instead of full or maybe limit the maximum for..hmm...essence investment?Every 1 essence allow you to apply up to two Str instead of Dex?This can scale to the same amount,yes,but also will eat essence like crrrazy.
    I think both the "Str in place of Dex" and the "Wis to AC" parts are problematic. First off, I believe the Wis part should say:

    "you may increase your armor bonus to AC with an amount equal to your veilweaving modifier"

    not (my emphasis):

    "you may add your veilweaving modifier to your AC"

    That way, the veil at least doesn't add two high modifiers to touch AC.

    Second, since the veil is obviously geared towards the same idea as heavy armors - making a low Dex viable - I believe your suggestion of "half Str in place of Dex" would be appropriate. This would in most cases grant a lower AC than plate before teen levels, but still a higher touch AC and later level superiority, making it less of a no-brainer. And of course, this doesn't mean the veil is no longer potentially problematic if other classes can access it through Shape Veil or archetypes (especially barbarians and full bab archetypes granting mutagen and/or rage would still love to get their grubby little hands on this).

    Finally, the "Wis to CMD"-part is not only redundant as the veil is currently written (since untyped bonuses to AC apply to CMD per default), but also a straight bonus above what full plate grants a Str-based kheshig. I think this should simply be scratched, so that with the above change to "Wis to armor bonus to AC", users of this veil still have to consider the impact a low Dex has on their CMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    I do have reasons to assume that by level at which Shoulders bind is available,assuming there are any witnesses at all,anything with a mind greater than of common frog will NOT be taking AoOs against the user.
    Uhm... Speaking from personal experience of having been "the mind" of many supposedly highly intelligent opponents, I have to admit even those sometimes acted in a way a that would make a common frog appear like a tactical genius...

    But yes, generally speaking, you wouldn't get more than one or maybe two AoOs out of this per combat. Which is a big part of why I called it near immunity when combined with the high miss chances. So yeah, my suggested limit on the number of AoOs would probably have little effect in most combats against enemies (or GMs) at least as smart as common frogs, since enemies are unlikely to be aware of the limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    And immunity to AoOs or plain AoO prevention is reasonably easy.In fact,it's a very literally first-level spell that doesn't allow a save.
    So while flashy and fun,it's not OP or even that useful,really.
    The spell isn't even remotely as powerful, since it eats a swift, a spell slot (useless as wand/scroll/potion), and only protects against AoOs triggered by movement during a single round. That said, I agree that it's flashy and fun, and I guess actually challenging melee opponents with superior reach would still be a problem.
    Last edited by upho; 2021-02-25 at 10:01 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Or maybe,just maybe,we can ditch Str to AC entirely?
    Because it seems to me that V2 wins the vote like it would if i was the one counting the votes without any oversight,therefore,i propose that instead of adding Str to AC in place of Dex,what veil should do is add Str to Reflex instead of Dex!Or maybe even casting stat!Warblade did it i don't remember anybody calling that OP.
    This way you'll get literal Superior Reflexes when build is right,and since Reflex-based effects are largely of questionable usefulness-it's not even that much of a broken ability.
    Certainly far less than adding Str to AC.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-25 at 06:00 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    The day has come! Armor veils have been merged into the main document, and armored by Akasha has changed too.

    Some notes:
    Superior Reflexes lost STR to AC, as discussed here. I want to make sure its not underperforming, so keep an eye on it.
    Old Juggernaut plating is now called Shards of Steel
    Speaking of underperforming: Armor of Silk and Steel isn't great. I like the idea of it being a form veil, but I feel its current effects are too weak. I'm considering splitting it vs ranged/melee instead of physical/energy, but I fear it may be too much power with Shards of Steel versus ranged. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears
    Shell striker gauntlets have been updated as well.

    Work begins on Akashic Mark. I'll probably be moving it over towards a bodyguard role, as discussed earlier. It'll probably be updated in the Working Doc, so you can keep an eye on its development there, which will probably start late tonight and into tomorrow.

    I am also looking towards getting veils proliferated -- If you think there's a good veil that should be on the Kheshig list, or a Kheshig veil that would be good on another class, feel free to post your suggestions here!

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    For unyielding, "As a move action, you may remove up to your veilweaving modifier in damage from this veil."

    I presume this is supposed to be healing, but it lacks the "character doesn't take damage from doing so" disclaimer that the other incidents have.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by StSword View Post
    For unyielding, "As a move action, you may remove up to your veilweaving modifier in damage from this veil."

    I presume this is supposed to be healing, but it lacks the "character doesn't take damage from doing so" disclaimer that the other incidents have.
    That's because I'm two braincells away from having two braincells. It's fixed!

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    I still don't get how many damage Pile Bunker...err...Shell-striker Gauntlets do.
    Is it stat mod of each fire and force,or is it stat mod total.
    Shards of Steel is simple and useful.
    Two complaints.First is that it mentions spells.Spells target armor bonus only in case of AP rules,but even then AP is so high that even doubling probably won't help.
    Second is that bind is WAAAY too weak and silly.I'm sorry,but Mirror Rapier exists,and it requires only hands bind to properly tell that wizard exactly where he can stuff his Disintegrate spell.
    Body binds are basically capstone abilities.This is maybe a Head.Not even Headband.
    No,strike that,Mirror Rapier doesn't require bind at all!And here we have Body bind requirement,immediate action AND burning essence?
    As for Superior Reflexes-maybe a Feet bind granting Evasion and some stat replacement to Reflex?This way we can have both veils in one.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-26 at 11:07 PM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    I still don't get how many damage Pile Bunker...err...Shell-striker Gauntlets do.
    Is it stat mod of each fire and force,or is it stat mod total.
    Shards of Steel is simple and useful.
    Two complaints.First is that it mentions spells.Spells target armor bonus only in case of AP rules,but even then AP is so high that even doubling probably won't help.
    Second is that bind is WAAAY too weak and silly.I'm sorry,but Mirror Rapier exists,and it requires only hands bind to properly tell that wizard exactly where he can stuff his Disintegrate spell.
    Body binds are basically capstone abilities.This is maybe a Head.Not even Headband.
    No,strike that,Mirror Rapier doesn't require bind at all!And here we have Body bind requirement,immediate action AND burning essence?
    Ranged touch attacks target AC. I'll look into Shards of Steel's bind.

    As far as SSGs, what part of the wording is the issue? The intent is:

    0) Shell is loaded
    1) You hit with an attack
    2) Discharge shell, dealing veilweaving mod + 1d10 per essence invested in the veil. Record damage.
    3) Spike impales target
    4) At the start of the creature's turn, they take damage equal to half of the recorded damage. This happens 3 times.
    5) At the 3rd time, in addition to the above damage, the shell explodes, and they take twice the damage, which should be the recorded shell's damage.

    If it's not reading this way to you, let me know what's wrong and I'll try to fix it.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Ranged touch attacks target AC.
    And usually ignore armor bonus,which Shards of Steel improves.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    2) Discharge shell, dealing veilweaving mod + 1d10 per essence invested in the veil. Record damage.
    You see....
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    additional fire and force damage equal to your veilweaving modifier (minimum 3)
    I'm reading this as additional fire AND force damage equal to mod.So,two mods,one fire and one force.
    And apparently i was right that this wasn't the intent.
    So,i'm voting for it to be left as is.Class is obviously not a caster so won't have casting mod properly high.Hell,maybe improve it in a bind!Say,not 1d10,but 1d10+mod fire OR force.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-26 at 11:30 PM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    And usually ignore armor bonus,which Shards of Steel improves
    Behold! I am an idiot!
    SoS will be changed to an insight bonus to AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    I'm reading this as additional fire AND force damage equal to mod.So,two mods,one fire and one force.
    The intent is that the damage type is split, since fire is a very commonly resisted damage type, you're at least getting half damage out of it. If the damage seems low, I'll look to improve it, but I'm leery about too much damage since the veil is very good on the alpha as is.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Behold! I am an idiot!
    SoS will be changed to an insight bonus to AC.
    No,you are not and please don't.Everything grants insight bonus in Akasha.Courtesan's Cloak exists,for example.
    Better allow the bind to apply your armor bonus to touch AC or something on that level.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    the veil is very good on the alpha as is.
    Not really.I mean,it's purely secondary,for starters,and we are looking at best at 1d10+3 extra at level 1.Or at 3d10+3 at level 6.That's not something to write home about.Especially since,yes,fire is the most common energy resistance.
    It WAS good alpha back when it was auto-critting.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-27 at 12:27 AM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    "Metal plates that are reinforced with the veilweaver’s essence hover around the veilweaver, intercepting attacks from afar."

    Sounds like a deflection bonus to me.

    Which nicely, still adds to touch AC.
    Last edited by StSword; 2021-02-27 at 01:42 AM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    I can live with deflection bonus.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by StSword View Post
    "Metal plates that are reinforced with the veilweaver’s essence hover around the veilweaver, intercepting attacks from afar."

    Sounds like a deflection bonus to me.

    Which nicely, still adds to touch AC.
    Done and dusted.

    Essence Bound Duty (the replacement for Akashic mark)is written in the working doc, sans the level 13 ability, which I'm drawing a blank on. If you have suggestions or would like to leave comments, feel free to do so!

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Done and dusted.

    Essence Bound Duty (the replacement for Akashic mark)is written in the working doc, sans the level 13 ability, which I'm drawing a blank on. If you have suggestions or would like to leave comments, feel free to do so!
    My first impression is that,with sufficient essence investment,our charge becomes very literally untouchable barring True Strike-class effects in place.
    And i'm PERFECTLY OK WITH IT.Because essence investment required is indeed extreme.
    Next,what i see is that ability is suffering from split personality disorder.If we're within fifteen feet-our target can't be hit but if we go away he can be.And base ability allows us to move away.
    Why would we want to move away?
    Where is my alchemist's fire?This way i can hit all of them without leaving the side of the target,and ignore all resistance and immunities anyways.
    Eat that,Colossal Red Dragon,i finally get to use your minature(well,a over a feet high,but still)after fifteen years and you'll die to a very literal alchemist's fire!
    A frikkin shame.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-27 at 02:34 AM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    Next,what i see is that ability is suffering from split personality disorder.If we're within fifteen feet-our target can't be hit but if we go away he can be.And base ability allows us to move away.
    Why would we want to move away?
    Base ability is less about moving away from your charge, and moving to delete whatever poor sod attacked them. Useful if you're not within 15ft of them, like if you're on a frontline tying up some nasty creatures. An option in your pocket, should you need it. Reminder that you are melee (for this archetype, anyways), so having that mobility to get you into range to pummel an idiot isn't bad to have.
    Last edited by AGrinningCat; 2021-02-27 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    I do like new Shell-Striker Gauntlets.Simple,easy to use,and when powered up are quite enough to atomize the target at the end of combat at relevant levels.
    I do think that either essence investment should do something else or bind in part increasing the amount of heat.
    I also do think that in the bind,stat mod limit should be removed.Again,it's insight bonus-it's easy.Hitting people in the face a lot of times isn't so easy.

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    My thoughts on the proliferation of veils to other lists. Crossposted from Discord. Go ahead and post if you agree, disagree, whatever.

    Weapon Veils:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Staff of Ten-Thousand Truths
    Definite: Daevic, Guru
    Maybe: Eclipse, Lunar, Stormbound

    Dancing Glaive
    Definite: Daevic, Guru
    Maybe: Eclipse, Lunar, Helmsman, Nexus, Stormbound

    Swirling Sirocco
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru, Lunar, Helmsman
    Maybe: Daevic, Nexus, Stormbound

    Hardlight Axe
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Lunar, Helmsman
    Maybe: Nexus, Radiant

    Juggernaut Blade
    Definite: Daevic, Helmsman
    Maybe: Lunar

    Mark of the Gate Guardian
    Definite: Daevic, Helmsman
    Maybe: Lunar, Radiant

    Twin Thunders
    Definite: Guru, Helmsman, Stormbound
    Maybe: Daevic, Lunar

    Blade of the Mirror Knight
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar
    Maybe: Daevic, Nexus, Radiant, Vizier

    Mark of the Wounded Beast
    Definite: Guru, Eclipse, Lunar, Nexus, Vizier
    Maybe: Daevic, Stormbound

    Shell-striker Gauntlets
    Definite: Guru, Helmsman
    Maybe: Daevic, Eclipse

    Still Waters, Clear Skies
    Definite: Guru, Eclipse
    Maybe: Daevic

    Destruction Hammer
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar
    Maybe: Eclipse, Stormbound

    Blade of Stone and Air
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Lunar
    Maybe: Stormbound

    Armaments of Faith
    Definite: Daevic, Helmsman, Radiant
    Maybe: Lunar

    Armor Veils:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Superior Reflexes
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru
    Maybe: none

    Unyielding
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru
    Maybe: none

    Tattered Cloths
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru
    Maybe: none

    Phase Weave Vest
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Guru, Nexus
    Maybe: Lunar, Radiant, Vizier

    Runic Breastplate
    Definite: Daevic
    Maybe: Radiant, Stormbound

    Armor of Steel and Silk
    Definite: Daevic, Stormbound
    Maybe: Radiant

    Juggernaut Plating
    Definite: Daevic
    Maybe: none

    Plate of the Mountain
    Definite: Daevic
    Maybe: none

    GrinningCat has stated he plans on giving veils that add a bonus to a skill check to the classes that have that skill as a class skill, so this last one is only gonna be for veils that don't give a bonus to skill checks. There are some veils in my suggestions that say "Vizier (FK)". That means I suggest that veil be added to the Vizier list for the sake of the Fisherking, which uses that list. Currently, there is only one veil which is on the Fisherking list and isn't on the Vizier list, the Sword of Kingship. Up to you if you want to add more to that amount or just give it to Vizier and save the hassle.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Citadel Banner
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Lunar
    Maybe: Helmsman, Nexus, Vizier (FK)

    Barrier Belt
    Definite: Guru, Helmsman, Lunar, Nexus, Radiant, Vizier
    Maybe: Stormbound

    Captor's Chain
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Guru, Helmsman, Radiant
    Maybe: Lunar

    Dark Heart
    Definite: Eclipse, Stormbound
    Maybe: Any???

    Eye of Revealing
    Definite: Eclipse, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar
    Maybe: Nexus, Radiant, Vizier

    Wildfang Necklace
    Definite: Daevic, Lunar, Stormbound
    Maybe: Guru, Radiant, Vizier (FK)

    Heart Link Cuirass
    Definite: Guru, Helmsman, Lunar, Radiant, Vizier (FK)
    Maybe: Stormbound

    Sprinter's Boots
    Definite: ???
    Maybe: Any???

    Sash of Four Seasons
    Definite: Guru, Helmsman, Lunar, Nexus, Radiant, Stormbound, Vizier
    Maybe: Daevic

    Frigid Grasp
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar, Stormbound
    Maybe: Nexus

    Broken Shackles
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar
    Maybe: Radiant

    Lion's Heart
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Helmsman, Lunar, Radiant
    Maybe: Vizier (FK)

    Angel's Feather
    Definite: Guru, Lunar
    Maybe: Nexus, Vizier (FK)

    Black Veil
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Guru, Lunar
    Maybe: Nexus, Radiant, Vizier

    Shards of Steel
    Definite: ???
    Maybe: Any???

    Deathgrip Gauntlets
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Helmsman
    Maybe: Radiant

    Bindings of the Immortal
    Definite: Daevic, Guru, Helmsman
    Maybe: Radiant

    Charred Angelic Wings
    Definite: Daevic, Eclipse, Helmsman, Lunar, Stormbound
    Maybe: Nexus, Vizier
    The Library of Metzofitz: An up-to-date reference document for all of your Akashic, Path of War, and Psionic needs. In the works: Gonzo and Legendary material.

    Pathfinder Caster Spreadsheet: For when you need to check if there's a spontaneous caster Witch or a Charisma-based Alchemist (the answer is yes). Includes manifesters, initiators, and veilweavers. Now with a colorblind version!

    Akashic Character Sheet: Tracks invested Essence, plenty of space for veils and other Akashic hullabaloo.

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    17th level Mark ability feels like a literal slap to the face.
    At the very least it should be "1/day immediate action True Resurrection to the target"instead of"we die for some reason,no save".Some bodyguard!
    And between 1st level and this i don't think that any intervening ability should be in any way defensive.We already have crazy spellfailure and automiss from level 1.Anything beyond is pretty much pointless.
    My thoughts about proliferation:Daevic should get everything possible and then some,because then i can poach stuff via Aegis.
    And it is probably correct at least in regard to armor and weapon veils.
    Also,Daevic can use all the help it can get.
    Silk armor is still very much weak.And not fun.Which is bad because other armors are fun.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-02-27 at 08:49 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    17th level Mark ability feels like a literal slap to the face.
    At the very least it should be "1/day immediate action True Resurrection to the target"instead of"we die for some reason,no save".Some bodyguard!
    There is the Bindings of the Immortal veil, which you can bind right after you get that ability. Might be a reason for that.
    The Library of Metzofitz: An up-to-date reference document for all of your Akashic, Path of War, and Psionic needs. In the works: Gonzo and Legendary material.

    Pathfinder Caster Spreadsheet: For when you need to check if there's a spontaneous caster Witch or a Charisma-based Alchemist (the answer is yes). Includes manifesters, initiators, and veilweavers. Now with a colorblind version!

    Akashic Character Sheet: Tracks invested Essence, plenty of space for veils and other Akashic hullabaloo.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    But maybe,just maybe,and i know it sounds a bit crazy,we can have an ability that doesn't suck in the first place instead of one requiring most powerful bind in the game AND veil slot to fix?

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Orc in the Playground
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    Jan 2015
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    Male

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Small update: There is the full Essence Bound Duty listed in the working doc, with Shell-strikers, Armor of Steel and Silk, and Aura of Rage (new!) all posted there, waiting comments.
    Armor of Steel and Silk cannibalized the old Shards of Steel into its feature, and in its place is Aura of Rage (old visage of rage), a veil that's a great way to kill people (or die trying).

    Furthermore, I've gone back and looked at the old Kheshig ranged archetype, and I probably will be converting it into an alternate class feature and baking in the options into base Kheshig. There's a few reasons for this, but the primary one is that Kheshig drifted a bit in its mechanics that 1) The Kheshig leaned more into a bodyguard role, and B) the mechanics became very aligned with what the ranged archetype was already doing (investing essence into your enemy rather than your ally) -- In fact, the only thing that the ranged archetype replaced was Fighting styles (for ranged ones), and the melee veils in exchange for a smaller list of ranged ones.

    With the archetype changing very few things, I've decided to take this route. I'm making this post so that I'm transparent in my dealings -- I promised a ranged archetype, and I won't quite be delivering a ranged archetype, but a host of ranged options for base Kheshig, and an alternate class feature replacing Kheshig's Essence Bound Duty; transforming them in more standard damage dealer than a bodyguard. This means that you'll be able to build Kheshig as a Melee or Ranged protector, or Melee or Ranged damage dealer, instead of the previous Melee protector or ranged damage dealer. This also gives both variants of the class (ranged or melee) the option for 'backup' weapons, which I may print a feat for to make things easier.

    So this update on Wednesday will be the 'damage' ACF and ranged options. Friday, I'm hoping to get a list of proliferations out for all of the veils, which should have been shaken out by then. As always, I'm available for feedback or discussion, so feel free to let me know your thoughts.'
    Last edited by AGrinningCat; 2021-03-02 at 06:06 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    So,i think that 17th level Mark ability is...passable.Not perfect,but since it can prevent our poor silly target from dying a lot of times and we don't necessary need to die-it's OK.
    Rage is kind of an infinite combo right now.Target hits us,damages us,we damage them with base effect,force them to make an attack,if they hit we damage them with base effect and force them to make and attack,if they miss we make an attack against them,damage them,goto4.
    Unless this is intended-it needs to be fixed.I do like the concept now.
    And i always like more options to the base class as opposed to archetypes-simply because poaching them would be easier.
    Disclaimer:chances are,most likely i won't ever play Kheshig.In fact,the only full veilweaver i've ever played was Rajah.
    But each and every soul at my table is now using Kheshig's veilweaving list as a primary one!Even silly Highlord!
    That wouldn't be happening if class features weren't turned into veils.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-03-02 at 10:08 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    Rage is kind of an infinite combo right now.Target hits us,damages us,we damage them with base effect,force them to make an attack,if they hit we damage them with base effect and force them to make and attack,if they miss we make an attack against them,damage them,goto4.
    Unless this is intended-it needs to be fixed.I do like the concept now.
    I had changed the triggering condition on the shape (Standard action to 'whenever you damage') when I was fiddling with it to make it less bad, and forgot to add in the conditional. This should be fixed now.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    Male

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draacul View Post
    And i always like more options to the base class as opposed to archetypes-simply because poaching them would be easier.
    Disclaimer:chances are,most likely i won't ever play Kheshig.In fact,the only full veilweaver i've ever played was Rajah.
    But each and every soul at my table is now using Kheshig's veilweaving list as a primary one!Even silly Highlord!
    That wouldn't be happening if class features weren't turned into veils.
    I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

    How is highlord getting akashic stuff, if you don't mind me asking? Did an akashic archetype come out with it?

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Orc in the Playground
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    Jan 2015
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    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    It's Wednesday! That means its time for updates!
    Essence Bound Duty, Armor of Steel and Silk, Shell-striker Gauntlets, and Aura of Rage have been moved into the playtest document. In the working document is now the ranged ACF that replaces Essence Bound Duty, 5 new ranged veils, a new fighting style, and a new feat. As always, I'm here for feedback, so don't feel shy to grab my attention about these things!

    As a note, this Friday or Saturday I'll have the veils proliferated out to other lists. If you have suggestions, now would be the time to throw them in!

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: [Legendary Games] [PF] Kheshig Open Playtest. An Akashic Frontliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

    How is highlord getting akashic stuff, if you don't mind me asking? Did an akashic archetype come out with it?
    Well,consider that i didn't use any fighter-related stuff through entirety of Pathfinder.When i see a monster block including fighter-i just rebuild it.So the entirety of effort(if there was one)involved in fighter class or anything related was wasted on me-simply because class is bad,boring,and i can't get anything interesting from it via poaching.This applies for A LOT of things.
    Whereas your class isn't even released yet and already i use it.Now,i use it not with the same chassis,but you can be safely assured that at least four people were,in fact,having fun with it.
    I know it's not much,but it's quite a lot for my group.
    Highlord got akashic stuff through not-yet-released-but-available-for-playtest Spheres of Akasha.
    Same as everybody else,really.
    We have a heavy-spheres game with no classes above or below Tier 3,and this veil list fits into campaign idea very nicely,and is generally pretty good!
    So,feedback.
    New ranged mark is fine,but does it really need to be swift action with no possibility to reduce?I mean,i know that assassins rarely attack in packs,but sometimes they do.Remember Caesar?
    Marksman is a frikkin wunderwaffe.I guess if one allows rifles in the first place-why not?
    Wolf is fine.I mean,yes,an immortal animal companion,but that's not that impressive after Lunar.
    Bow is a bit unclear in "increase number of ice arrows"
    Dagger requires clarifying.Namely,am i correct that we can have a literal fistful of daggers summoned and then just throw them one by one?
    Am i correct that if we move thirty feet,we can throw three daggers at various targets?
    Also bind is boring,please do something about it.I mean,it's a time-saver,yes,but it's one point five damage on average-for Feet bind it's practically nothing.
    Cannon is OK in concept,but VERY weak.I mean,rifle does all that and also makes you tea or coffee,as you wish.
    And probably warms your bed when it's required.
    Last edited by Draacul; 2021-03-03 at 10:19 AM.

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