OOTS #1226 - The Discussion Thread

[facw]

(Was there a non-crayon flash back to Dorukan in one of the recent ones?)

Not recent, but we see two non-crayon flashbacks to Dorukan way back in Don't Split the Party: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

Lirian is also there.

[Ron Miel]

It's still my crackpot theory that when the Order meets her, Belkar will go up to her and say "Hey, Grandma." Having never had a reason to divulge that information.

Except that Grandma Bitterleaf is in a nursing home.

[137beth]

I am very surprised to see her in an antagonistic role.

[wilphe]

Except that Grandma Bitterleaf is in a nursing home.

Most people have two grandmas

[HuntedWalrus]

First my BattleBots bracket gets busted on Day 1, and now my Zeus And Giggles theory gets shot to pieces?

Drat.

[gatemansgc]

Except that Grandma Bitterleaf is in a nursing home.

that could be his paternal grandmother, and she could be the maternal!

[Pory]

Crackpot theory time!

The orange voice is the other half of Serini one of the descendants of Girard! Because they were red headed ! ...Ok, I suppose I have to elaborate on this.

My theory is that Serini and Girard still had some kind of contact when both were alive and possibly the latest send one of his children/grandchildren to stay with Serini, that way they were still somehow in contact but without breaking their own rules...and they couldn't use Sending because they are blocking it because they didn't want to be contacted by anyone.
And then, that kid got familicide'd but were resurrected using the same weird magic that's keeping Serini alive or something similar, it's a working crackpot theory.

[DavidBV]

What I wonder is... if she is so certain about "not existing" soon, why does she care about what the Paladins report?

I just can't see how both things reconcile.

[Doug Lampert]

This whole sabre vs katana thing is getting weird.

Anything involving katanas usually does.

Obligatory link.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Katanas_are...powered_in_d20

[Fyraltari]

She is not hostile to the paladins, so it's not like she believes they destroyed Girard's Gate.

You have high standards as to what qualifies as "hostility".

[Daibhid C]

Everyone wondering what Serini's motivations are: they obviously vary depending on whether her double-headed silver piece lands scarred side up or not.

[Grey Watcher]

Everyone wondering what Serini's motivations are: they obviously vary depending on whether her double-headed silver piece lands scarred side up or not.

I wish we could like forum posts.

[bunsen_h]

Honestly, compared to the flashbacks Serini seems much more... pessimistic and bitter than she used to be. That might be relevant.

Having to live like that, long-term, might easily do that to a person.

Clarification, that rogue ability is Evasion, not Uncanny Dodge. Uncanny Dodge prevents flanking and sneak attack, as shown in the Cliffport arc.

Though, come to think of it, there is an option in 3.5 that lets a rogue forego Evasion in return for appearing to be dead after taking a lot of damage...

Ah, Ninja’d.

So Xykon hits her with serious negative energy; she appears to be dead. Then he does an Animate Dead on her. She's a bilateral half-zombie.

[Psychronia]

Well, there we go.

...anyone other than Elan have any ideas why she was wearing an impractically long cloak just to cover that footstool and look like a full-sized humanoid?

[Emperor Time]

It nice to see that one of the order of the scribble is still alive. And she planning to only erase their recent memories instead of killing them. Guess this means she isn't a new villain in the story and is merely neutral instead.

[Lionheart261]

So, here's a random thought, not sure if it has any legs, but: what if the amnesia potion is also a bluff? Probably not in the sense that she isn't making one at the moment, but more in the sense that she's not actually dead set on giving it to them just yet.

After all, you probably wouldn't want to have your captives wake up while the amnesia potion is unfinished, and if they do, you definitely wouldn't want to tell them about the amnesia potion unless you're super confident they won't manage to escape. If you were set on mind wiping your captives from the start, you'd time it so that the potion was finished by the time they woke up, so you could get it down their throats before they even realize what's going on, then send them on their merry way. Giving them time to get their bearings, not to mention telling them about the mind wipe in advance and going so far as to reveal yourself to them, is counterproductive to that objective because it's just giving them more of a reason to try and escape before you can mind wipe them. However, these choices do make sense if you have a different goal in mind: obtaining information.

Think about it: if you were told you were about to get mind wiped, and your goal of protecting reality itself hinged on that not happening, assuming escape isn't an option, you'd probably try and negotiate your way out of it with whatever you can reasonably offer your captor. So far, O-Chul's mentioned Xykon, but there's other information he and Lien could offer Serini which she probably doesn't know already. At a minimum, more detailed information on how Soon's Gate went down is almost guaranteed, and since they're clearly breaking Soon's oath by marching onto Serini's turf, it's possible they might know about how the other gates went down too. Moreover, I'd like to direct your attention to who the paladins were talking about before they were captured: Vaarsuvius, described as the paladins' ally and whom Serini might know as one of two spellcasters who have been Sending her a bunch of messages. Assuming that the tomb isn't warded against that sort of thing, it's likely that, as others have suggested, she's been getting both V and Durkon's messages; she's simply elected not to respond for whatever reason. As such, it's possible she now knows about the paladins' connection to V, and can assume they have additional information about V and their other allies which she wouldn't have been reasonably expected to obtain from a bunch of magic telegrams.

So, yeah. If they do prove to have valuable information, the threat of mind wiping would've proven way more effective at getting them to talk than more conventional methods, methods that Serini would know don't work on paladins and which probably aren't her style anyway. And if they don't prove to have valuable information after all, then hey, she can still go with the amnesia plan as long as they don't try and escape. Like I said, not sure whether or not I'm on to something here, but I'm definitely interested in seeing what happens in the next strip.

[Riftwolf]

Well, there we go.

...anyone other than Elan have any ideas why she was wearing an impractically long cloak just to cover that footstool and look like a full-sized humanoid?

Chances are Elan would have the right idea.

So, here's a random thought, not sure if it has any legs, but: what if the amnesia potion is also a bluff? Probably not in the sense that she isn't making one at the moment, but more in the sense that she's not actually dead set on giving it to them just yet

The Order has only just turned up, she might be improvising. Carefully timed plans only really work when you have chance to prepare them.

[hroþila]

What I wonder is... if she is so certain about "not existing" soon, why does she care about what the Paladins report?

I just can't see how both things reconcile.

She's not actually so certain. She was just being fatalistic back there.

You have high standards as to what qualifies as "hostility".

Well, she wants them to go away unharmed. Obviously this would count as hostile if your neighbour did it, but what I mean is she doesn't want to hurt them.

[goodpeople25]

She's not actually so certain. She was just being fatalistic back there.

Well, she wants them to go away unharmed. Obviously this would count as hostile if your neighbour did it, but what I mean is she doesn't want to hurt them.

You have low standards as to what qualifies as unharmed.

[EmperorSarda]

The Order has only just turned up, she might be improvising. Carefully timed plans only really work when you have chance to prepare them.

Serini has to be aware of the Order though. Not only has V tried communicating with her several times, but they did trigger the desert trap that would have alerted Serini and others to them.

With the destruction of the Girard's gate, Serini has to know and be anticipating them.

[Sakgeres]

I have some assumptions and questions
1) She is treating the paladins this way because she assumes they are from Sapphire Guard coming to interfere with this gate?
2) She mentions "fun while it lasted" which she refers to existing. Does she know it was the last gate? Why does she want to send the Paladins back instead of defending it together?
3) She met Xykon very early on, after she had build Kraagor's Tomb. They must have met far away from the tomb or Xykon would have known about it's location and went there first. Why did she leave and where did she met Xykon?
4) Her current state is the result of fusion (5e Spell) with another creature? Who had cast this spell on her and manage to do it repeatedly over all these years?
5) The orange voice is her underling as it refer to Sirini as boss. What kind of creature is it and why is it with her?

[El_Chupacabra]

Long-shot theory: Serini somehow merged with the snarl entity or a portion thereof. Could explain the new world in the void.

EDIT: as well as the "existing" statement. If the snarl was an unmaking of existence, a sort of "anti-existence" that destroyed what it came into contact with, then the merger, however unlikely, could have given it existence on a different plane as well as better understanding as to the nature of itself and the existence of others.

[Canisius]

Now THAT was a reveal!

[IntelectPaladin]

Oh no! Not memory stuff! That's killing the "them" that know!
The situation's changed, and the sapphire guard are dissolved, if that's the right term.
She probably is both voices, taking control of an undead partially made from herself?

Whatever goes on, I just hope they remember all of it.

[dps]

Good catch - the "boss" comment makes it pretty darn unlikely that orange voice is Kraagor, regardless of the possibility of resurrection or soul-binding shenanigans.

Wonder if it's a new character, or someone we've already met? If the latter, who could it be? Hank? Maybe Bozzok had Grubwiggler do something to him similar to what he did to Crystal, even though Hank was alive when we saw him last.

Malack? Can't really see him calling Serini "boss" or how he would still be alive (well, undead).

Really, I think it's a new character. It sounds like whoever it is has had a long-term association with Serini, which seems highly unlikely for any character we've already met.

EDIT: could the character with the orange speech bubble be the major character who has only appeared on 1 page previously? Have we seen anyone with an orange speech bubble before?

[hroþila]

You have low standards as to what qualifies as unharmed.

I think they still have all their HPs.

[Fyraltari]

I have some assumptions and questions
1) She is treating the paladins this way because she assumes they are from Sapphire Guard coming to interfere with this gate?

They are.

2) She mentions "fun while it lasted" which she refers to existing. Does she know it was the last gate?

Unless she lost this thing or it was somehow disabled, she knows.

3) She met Xykon very early on, after she had build Kraagor's Tomb. They must have met far away from the tomb or Xykon would have known about it's location and went there first. Why did she leave and where did she met Xykon?

According to SoD they only met a handful of years ago since that's when Big X shows up with her diary. According to the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, she left because she wasn't the type for retiring.

4) Her current state is the result of fusion (5e Spell) with another creature? Who had cast this spell on her and manage to do it repeatedly over all these years?

Looks more like she was grafted artificial organs or something. In any case none of the Scribblers were operating alone so she most likely has somebody on hand to take care of whatever she needs.

5) The orange voice is her underling as it refer to Sirini as boss. What kind of creature is it and why is it with her?

Judging by the way they carried two unconscious bodies and two weapons along a cliff-face, either a multi-limbed creature or somebody with telekinetic magic as for why they worknfor her to stop the end of the world, I would guess a combination of personnal loyalty, being paid and not wanting the planet to be consumed by an eldritch horror.

[Sakgeres]

According to SoD they only met a handful of years ago since that's when Big X shows up with her diary. According to the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, she left because she wasn't the type for retiring.

I mean, she must have left Kraagor's tomb after building it, and met Big X somewhere far away right?

[Fyraltari]

I mean, she must have left Kraagor's tomb after building it, and met Big X somewhere far away right?

Yes because she wasn't the type to retire. So she didn't retire unlike the others and kept being an active murderhobo adventurer. Being an active adventurer, she adventured which would bring us to many places that weren't the arctic.

[BruceGee]

I'm pretty sure Orange has at least four arms considering the spear and saber's positions.

Another clue in 1189 is that Serini said "Grab them." If she and another flying humanoid were each carrying one, she would have said "Grab one." My guess is that orange-voice is a large flying mount, probably a dragon -- definitely something big enough to carry two paladins.
I always figured we would see Serini in the flesh eventually, but the green hand and the stepladder were a great fakeout!