Why Don't more people play light armor/weapon paladin

[LudicSavant]

I'll courteously direct you to the forum rules:
https://forums.giantitp.com/announcement.php?a=1

[Ir0ns0ul]

I'll courteously direct you to the forum rules:
https://forums.giantitp.com/announcement.php?a=1

Sorry for the off-topic: but I didn’t see any break in the rules. To be honest, Ludic post was quite informative and clear.

Back to the subject: Dexadins are great! My biggest pain when I played a Dwarf Paladin was long range combats. Being able to circumvent that by being super effective with a longbow is great. Dueling, Rapier, Studded Leather & Shield are a great setup!

[Verble]

I played a ratfolk sorcadin that used both UA subclasses, the Oath of Heroism and the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. He grew up a rogue on the streets and living in the sewers, and picked up use of thieves tools. He was dex based and the sorcerer subclass gave him a base ac of 13+dex which with a shield made him pretty resilient. My DM appreciated me going dex based and removed the strength requirement for multiclassing. The ratfolk had a dex bonus and an interesting ability where they can move through enemy squares if they're medium size or bigger. He had a whip and a rapier which gave him mixed flexibility with range and OAs. He also had a riding dog that he used to help scent track. Unfortunately covid closed down that game which was a pity as I was excited by the character both story wise and mechanically.

I like dex paladins and wish they were more common, particularly in multiclassing.

[Jerrykhor]

Because Might makes Right!

[Witty Username]

Some of it is anchoring, rangers have something similar with GWF, they don't have the fighting styles and the artwork says the thing so players do the thing. Multi classing can also be more frustrating on a dex build because of the 13 str requirement. I see it as a non-problem, just players having behaviors.

[CheddarChampion]

To answer the OP: when you think of a Paladin, what comes to mind?

A high AC and high saving throws? Heavy armor lets you boost your Cha without losing out on AC. That requires Str.

Big melee damage? The melee weapons with the most damage require Str. Some tables let the great weapon fighting style work with divine smite and such.

A knight in shining armor, riding a mighty steed, charging forward to slay a dragon with their lance? Str.

Dex Paladin can be strong. It just doesn't fit the archetype as well as Str Paladin does. Moreover, being good at sneaking around, using lockpicks, and picking pockets might actively go against a Paladin's Oath/Archetype.

[Valmark]

Imo it's mostly the lack of ranged support, the strenght requirement for multiclassing and the heavy armor.

It just feels bad to go Dexterity and be told that your ranged attacks (one of the reasons to go dexterity) don't benefit from many of your features/spells.

And if you're going dex you still can't multiclass without putting points in strenght- that makes them a little MADder if you indeed want to multiclass. Unless you go Hexblade, since that means you don't need neither Dex nor Str.

Finally, many see heavy armor as an upgrade over other armors when it's really a sidegrade- and since those have a Strenght requirement you're even more prone to boosting strenght.

I'll courteously direct you to the forum rules:
https://forums.giantitp.com/announcement.php?a=1

Keep in mind if someone tells you that you're wrong it doesn't mean that they're telling you that you're lying. Assuming that's what you were referring to.

[MrStabby]

But what's in a name?

If you strip a class down to its mechanics that thematic cluster of abilities we call a paladin also works to a number of different archetypes as well.

My inquisitor, dedicated to hunting down evil in the shadows was a dexterity vengeance paladin. Subtle deception, intimidation, stealth all complimented smites for a quick assassination style kill, aura for resiliance to magic type effects, detect good and evil for confirming targets.

[JellyPooga]

To answer the OP: when you think of a Paladin, what comes to mind?

A high AC and high saving throws? Heavy armor lets you boost your Cha without losing out on AC. That requires Str.

Big melee damage? The melee weapons with the most damage require Str. Some tables let the great weapon fighting style work with divine smite and such.

A knight in shining armor, riding a mighty steed, charging forward to slay a dragon with their lance? Str.

Dex Paladin can be strong. It just doesn't fit the archetype as well as Str Paladin does. Moreover, being good at sneaking around, using lockpicks, and picking pockets might actively go against a Paladin's Oath/Archetype.

But what's in a name?

If you strip a class down to its mechanics that thematic cluster of abilities we call a paladin also works to a number of different archetypes as well.

My inquisitor, dedicated to hunting down evil in the shadows was a dexterity vengeance paladin. Subtle deception, intimidation, stealth all complimented smites for a quick assassination style kill, aura for resiliance to magic type effects, detect good and evil for confirming targets.

I've got to go with MrStabby on this one.

A Paladin without a title and with nothing but rags on his back is still a Paladin.

Being a Paladin is about the Oath. Without that, they are nothing. With it, they are everything.

Anything else is just details. When I think of a Paladin, I'm not seeing a knight in shining armour; that image goes to (honestly) the douche-bag monster-hunting fighter or crusader who is more interested in his own image and personal fame than actually helping anyone. I'm also not thinking of high AC and big damage; that's just numbers and I can get that with basically any Class.

When I think of a Paladin, I'm more inclined to think of...

...the kindly gentleman in plain clothes helping out down at the local soup-line, busting out a battered looking sword and some old leathers that belonged to his dad when bandits try and take advantage of the helpless and vulnerable.

...the simple traveller that shares her meal on the road, even though it's the last she has. In the dark of the night, when creatures foul attack the campsite, she is the light that drives them back, putting her own life at risk to protect those she barely knows. In the morning she parts ways with no expectation, let alone demand, of reward.

...the relentless hound that lets neither compassion or personal interest sway him from his task; namely the pursuit and execution of those that would do evil and harm. His is a lonely path, a rough one devoid of status or fame. No-one understands and they don't need to.

In short, when I think of a Paladin I'm mostly inclined to think of someone that, more than anything else, travels a lot. They do their thing (for good or for ill) and then move on to do their thing somewhere else. It is their job to remove problems, not to be the agent of lasting gain (or ill, for an evil Paladin). They are charismatic, so people trust them, but they are also dangerous and endowed with great power, which makes them ill suited to a settled life. Their Oath implies, if not dictates that they must move on once their job is done in a place. This wandering lifestyle lends itself to wearing and using that which is, above all, practical and comfortable. Heavy Armour is not this. The Paladins I've played have all worn light armour, if any.

Granted, 5e rules don't support this particularly, but that's just what I envision when Paladins come to mind.

[diplomancer]

Dexadin FAQ / mythbusting:

Q: "Wouldn't the lack of the TWF style make them bad at dual-wielding?"
A: Not really. The TWF fighting style doesn't add a lot of damage, and isn't needed for dual-wielding to work for Paladins -- just having an extra attack to attach a smite to, without spending a precious feat slot, is sufficient for them to use it sometimes.

Also, the TWF style might not even be the best style to take on a TWF-build. Consider instead Blind-Fighting, Defense, or Interception.

Q: "What about heavy armor? Won't I be squishy without that?"
A: We'll ignore for the moment the possibility of being a Dex build that still wears plate.

Full Plate is at best worth 1 AC over light armor +20 Dex... and even that is situational (because it also costs an extra 1425 gp, money which could potentially be converted into magic items that are worth more than 1 AC. There's also possibilities like, say, just having Mage Armor, in which case the AC is equal).

A 20 Dex Light Armor (or no armor) build provides other defensive advantages that are arguably worth at least as much: A higher initiative, a better Dex save (which tends to be worth a lot more than a better Str save), and excellent stealth. It also means you have a lot of extra money in your pocket. Even in a game where you can't buy magic items or anything, even just converting this into healing potions is a lot of healing potions. Or pricey spell components. Or the like.

Q: "What about GWM? Don't I need that to do Teh Big Damagez?"
A: Absolutely not!!

The higher your damage-per-attack, the less valuable GWM is for you (because the -5 is risking more damage, and the +10 is granting less of a percentage increase to your damage).

A Paladin with Divine Smite, Improved Divine Smite, and possibly even things like Hunter's Mark or Holy Weapon, can actually decrease their average damage output by taking GWM. And they're eating an ASI, and dropping a shield, and losing initiative, stealth, etc (which all contribute indirectly to damage). Initiative in particular is worth more than you might expect -- people keep overlooking it because it doesn't affect damage per round... instead it effectively gives you more rounds.

Hmm, after seeing your Mage Armor suggestion I'm thinking it might be fun to play a Mark of Warding Dexadin with Tasha's rules, having a free Mage Armor and Armor of Agathys on the spell list looks like a nice way to make your DM hate you :)

[Willie the Duck]

It took a long time for me to realise this, but there actually isn't any reason a paladin has to be the archetypal knight in heavy armor with a big sword. Smite, there spells, and every one of there features doesn't have to be used on the frontline to be optimal. Obviously it's the classic build, and you generally want your explosive nova fighter to have a big weapon and tanky armor, but a different approach to paladin would be very doable and I'm disappointed that we don't do see it more often.

I'm a little surprised that you haven't seen it more. I think Dexadin (more rapier/dueling and shield than bow or crossbow, since as people mention smiting is melee-based) and was a pretty common concept when the game came out. I think people (online, on boards like these) have since kind of come to the conclusion that martial character need to eventually be able to grab one of the... rather fighting-style preferential over-tuned combat feats like GWM/PAM/SS/XBE or the like (and designer rulings have excluded Shield Master from this list), and as such the build kind of loses out. This isn't strictly the case, as low consistent damage with smite-based smites still help out in a battle, and a dexaladin makes a good second frontliner alongside a PAM/GWM barbarian, or the like. Of all the martial classes, paladin makes a lot of sense as a 1h weapon-and-shield front-liner-- they are MAD, and as such would love to be able to stick all their ASIs into Dex and Cha instead of combat feats, they have smite (and Improved Divine Smite) to boost damage over the 1d8+stat+2+magic they otherwise would get), and they have a bunch of spells that they can actually use for spells sometimes instead of just smite fuel. Compare them to a fighter or the like, and the likelihood of the option makes all the sense in the world.

Aside from the above combat feat issue. I think there are a number of reasons you don't see them quite so much these days (again, online where people talk much more about optimal choices). Multiclassing being a huge reason. Sorcadins BitD, and hexblade dips, both conspire to make a 13 Str rather necessary, which can really constrain the options, particularly if using the array. The array, in general, disfavors frontline dex builds, as getting your pre-shield/pre-magic AC up to comfortable levels is a real challenge --Str-based start with chainmail, which is AC 16. Dex 16 builds start with AC 14 leather armor, which can get up to 17 with half plate or 16 with breastplate if you want to stealth (a reason to pick dex in the first place) once you have cash (at which point the Str guy is in AC 17 splint and halfway to full plate). You don't max out your studded leather to AC 17 until at least 8th level+, which is a long wait. Above all else, I think an issue holding it back is a major reason to use Dex is because it allows you to switch-hit between melee and ranged better. However, both the shield rules (full action to remove shield), and the smite rules conspire to make switching to longbow something you probably only do when the flying enemy shows up, and even then newer options conspire to make that less required of a choice (instead of going dexadin, you can do a 1-level dip into hexblade and pick up Eldritch Blast, or at later levels summon a Pegasus to solve the enemy flier issue, etc.).

All in all, Dexadins are... fine. They're fine. They fight some basic functions of the ruleset all the way along, but they work. I can imagine a single classed paladin with bow and rapier and shield doing some decent frontline fighting paired with either a big-ax barbarian or fighter helping or a ranger or fighter behind them peppering the enemies with XBE/SS damage or something, all while rocking a great Dex and Cha for spellcasting and save bonuses. It would work. It would just take a lot of work to finely tune to perfection and I think a lot of the people interested in fine-tuning things are playing around with 14 Dex 1h-quarterstaff-and-shield hexblade 1 paladin x-1s with polearm master and elven accuracy or some-such.

[CheddarChampion]

SNIP

SNIP

I don't mean to say "You can't make a thematically appropriate Dex-based Paladin." I just mean "I think most people envision Paladins in a certain way and that contributes to how they build them."

I admit my previous post didn't really come out like that. I'm also making a big assumption about how "The People" think of Paladins, so maybe I'm way off base.

[MrStabby]

I'm a little surprised that you haven't seen it more. I think Dexadin (more rapier/dueling and shield than bow or crossbow, since as people mention smiting is melee-based) and was a pretty common concept when the game came out. I think people (online, on boards like these) have since kind of come to the conclusion that martial character need to eventually be able to grab one of the... rather fighting-style preferential over-tuned combat feats like GWM/PAM/SS/XBE or the like (and designer rulings have excluded Shield Master from this list), and as such the build kind of loses out. This isn't strictly the case, as low consistent damage with smite-based smites still help out in a battle, and a dexaladin makes a good second frontliner alongside a PAM/GWM barbarian, or the like. Of all the martial classes, paladin makes a lot of sense as a 1h weapon-and-shield front-liner-- they are MAD, and as such would love to be able to stick all their ASIs into Dex and Cha instead of combat feats, they have smite (and Improved Divine Smite) to boost damage over the 1d8+stat+2+magic they otherwise would get), and they have a bunch of spells that they can actually use for spells sometimes instead of just smite fuel. Compare them to a fighter or the like, and the likelihood of the option makes all the sense in the world.

Aside from the above combat feat issue. I think there are a number of reasons you don't see them quite so much these days (again, online where people talk much more about optimal choices). Multiclassing being a huge reason. Sorcadins BitD, and hexblade dips, both conspire to make a 13 Str rather necessary, which can really constrain the options, particularly if using the array. The array, in general, disfavors frontline dex builds, as getting your pre-shield/pre-magic AC up to comfortable levels is a real challenge --Str-based start with chainmail, which is AC 16. Dex 16 builds start with AC 14 leather armor, which can get up to 17 with half plate or 16 with breastplate if you want to stealth (a reason to pick dex in the first place) once you have cash (at which point the Str guy is in AC 17 splint and halfway to full plate). You don't max out your studded leather to AC 17 until at least 8th level+, which is a long wait. Above all else, I think an issue holding it back is a major reason to use Dex is because it allows you to switch-hit between melee and ranged better. However, both the shield rules (full action to remove shield), and the smite rules conspire to make switching to longbow something you probably only do when the flying enemy shows up, and even then newer options conspire to make that less required of a choice (instead of going dexadin, you can do a 1-level dip into hexblade and pick up Eldritch Blast, or at later levels summon a Pegasus to solve the enemy flier issue, etc.).

All in all, Dexadins are... fine. They're fine. They fight some basic functions of the ruleset all the way along, but they work. I can imagine a single classed paladin with bow and rapier and shield doing some decent frontline fighting paired with either a big-ax barbarian or fighter helping or a ranger or fighter behind them peppering the enemies with XBE/SS damage or something, all while rocking a great Dex and Cha for spellcasting and save bonuses. It would work. It would just take a lot of work to finely tune to perfection and I think a lot of the people interested in fine-tuning things are playing around with 14 Dex 1h-quarterstaff-and-shield hexblade 1 paladin x-1s with polearm master and elven accuracy or some-such.

I think that the GWM/PAM/SS/XBE list was the case for a while, but has been erroded a little. Elven Accuracy was first - a good enough feat that worked just fine with dexterity. Even better on vengeance paladins who could get relatively easy access to advantage. I mean, its not game breaking but its not bad for a half feat. More recently Fey Touched is also pretty competative with GWM/PAM/SS/XBE for an ASI. Mobility being a bit of a challenge for the paladin sometimes and spells like Hex being a pretty good damage boost helps.

Now I would say that a dexterity build will be better some campaigns, worse on others. It depends on whether your DM likes high AC targets or not. Paladins get enough bonus action spells that the feats that give bonus action attacks are... well they are still good, but not as good as on other characters.

[JellyPooga]

I don't mean to say "You can't make a thematically appropriate Dex-based Paladin." I just mean "I think most people envision Paladins in a certain way and that contributes to how they build them."

I admit my previous post didn't really come out like that. I'm also making a big assumption about how "The People" think of Paladins, so maybe I'm way off base.

I don't think you're wrong. I imagine that most people think "Knight in Shining" when Paladin comes up; in part because of historical paladins, in part because of earlier editions, in part because of the artwork and in part because of the flavour text (the first line of which begins by literally describing gleaming armour). That's a lot of "parts" contributing to a very specific image.

I just happen to think it's a misplaced archetype!

It probably stems from my dissatisfaction that the image of the KiSA and therefore Paladins are "supposed" to come from some kind of wealth. If your armour shines, it means that a) it's expensive to start with and b) someone spent a lot of time making it shiny. That means either you aren't spending your time doing Paladin-y stuff or you have someone to polish your gear, which itself doesn't sound too Paladin-y to me either. Either way it's more "douche bag, self-obsessed noble" than "righteous oath-bound warrior". Paladins (at least the Good ones) are supposed to be selfless, not selfish.

[Willie the Duck]

I think that the GWM/PAM/SS/XBE list was the case for a while, but has been erroded a little. Elven Accuracy was first - a good enough feat that worked just fine with dexterity. Even better on vengeance paladins who could get relatively easy access to advantage. I mean, its not game breaking but its not bad for a half feat. More recently Fey Touched is also pretty competative with GWM/PAM/SS/XBE for an ASI. Mobility being a bit of a challenge for the paladin sometimes and spells like Hex being a pretty good damage boost helps.

Oh, for sure. I personally have never toed the line on the 'must haves' --although I do recognize them as some clearly-best options that make me wonder who on the WotC staff loved hand crossbows and halberds (and whether 1H quarterstaff and shield was intentional or not). PAM/XBE work as long as you have a DM who plays ball and GWM/SS work if you have lots of ways to boost your to-hit or get advantage (in which case you are spending a lot of opportunity cost doing that). Fey Touched with Hex or Hunter's Mark on a paladin w/o Misty Step is another great option, along with EA. Options are opening up. I think the melee-only smites, difficulty in making a (non-emergency) melee-ranged switch-hitter, and prevalence of multiclassing are at this point major driving forces (along with the above-mentioned preference for a 'knight in shining armor' theme).

Now I would say that a dexterity build will be better some campaigns, worse on others. It depends on whether your DM likes high AC targets or not. Paladins get enough bonus action spells that the feats that give bonus action attacks are... well they are still good, but not as good as on other characters.

True, although Improved Divine Smite also helps up the overall damage. In general, I think fighters and barbarians are the obvious choices for PAM/GWM and XBE/SS, and the farther you move from that model, the more you are giving up for XBE/PAM.

[LudicSavant]

Overestimating GWM, particularly for Paladins, is a common mistake for new or non-optimizer players. This is because it takes extra effort to figure out how much things like accuracy, crit rate, buff synergy, init bonuses, and the like contribute to your offense.

GWM will actually often decrease a Paladin's DPR relative to just, say, taking a +2 Strength ASI. Seriously, jump on here and calculate some DPR, tossing in things like Improved Divine Smite, or Divine Smite, or Holy Weapon, or Hunter's Mark, or maybe even a Flame Blade. Look how often that -5/+10 is actually decreasing your damage output compared to +1/+1.

GWM shines best on characters who have a large number of hits, but low damage per hit, like many Fighters.

[Kane0]

Virtually all depictions and descriptions of paladins feature the heavy armor visualization.

Mechanically, there's nothing wrong with choosing dex at all. You lose a bit of AC and grappling in exchange for a more rounded set of skills that dex offers as well as keeping your stealth ability and adjusting your saves around a bit (they're still overall pretty high thanks to your Aura). You can still use a shield if you want too, and your ranged weapons are generally a bit better off using dex as you arent limited to thrown weapon ranges.

Honestly, I forget what classes get which fighting styles so have seen a few dual wielding dexadins and I have to say, it's pretty enjoyable to witness.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Imo it's mostly the lack of ranged support, the strenght requirement for multiclassing and the heavy armor.

It just feels bad to go Dexterity and be told that your ranged attacks (one of the reasons to go dexterity) don't benefit from many of your features/spells.

And if you're going dex you still can't multiclass without putting points in strenght- that makes them a little MADder if you indeed want to multiclass. Unless you go Hexblade, since that means you don't need neither Dex nor Str.

Finally, many see heavy armor as an upgrade over other armors when it's really a sidegrade- and since those have a Strenght requirement you're even more prone to boosting strenght.



Keep in mind if someone tells you that you're wrong it doesn't mean that they're telling you that you're lying. Assuming that's what you were referring to.

I think your point on needing the 13 strength is a good one. It doesn't seem like a huge issue at first glance, but when you want a level of Rogue, as I did with my Dex based Paladin, you now need 1) 13 strength, 2) Charisma as high as you can get it, 3) Decent Con, 4) At least 1 martial type feat to be competitive (assuming they are ok in your game), and 5) Dex getting to 20 as fast as possible for AC as well as attack. That starts to be a pretty restrictive list, and probably turns some players off.
That said, my 'Inquisitor' was really effective, so I'd say the 13 strength requirement was warranted.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Paladins are trained combatants. If a paladin decided to train with two weapons, why wouldn't they gain the fighting style? There isn't anything universal to all paladin trainings that forbids them to practice with two weapons.

You can certainly say most paladins would prefer to learn a different style, but that's not to say a few paladins couldn't learn it.

There's nothing universal to all wizards that forbids them to wear armor, except for their lack of proficiency with armor and genre conventions against armored mages. Paladins lack the TWF fighting style, and traditionally fight with the sorts of weapons a medieval knight might bring into battle (swords, lances, maybe a polearm, but certainly not two weapons at the same time).

Everyone has a different line for how far from genre conventions classes should stray. Some people would think that armored wizards are okay. Others blanch at the idea of paladins being anything but LG paragons.

This is not true.

Earliest for 20 Dex is actually level 1 with rolling, and level 4 with point buy (via CL+Half Feat).

Theoretically, you can get 20 Dexterity fairly quickly if you pour all your resources into it. Fun fact, paladins have things other than Dexterity to invest in! At best, you're left with a much more restrictive list of where you're spending your build resources; at worse, even with such a guide you won't be as effective.

It probably stems from my dissatisfaction that the image of the KiSA and therefore Paladins are "supposed" to come from some kind of wealth. If your armour shines, it means that a) it's expensive to start with and b) someone spent a lot of time making it shiny. That means either you aren't spending your time doing Paladin-y stuff or you have someone to polish your gear, which itself doesn't sound too Paladin-y to me either. Either way it's more "douche bag, self-obsessed noble" than "righteous oath-bound warrior". Paladins (at least the Good ones) are supposed to be selfless, not selfish.

That's a problem with fantasy literature in general. Like many of our sources (and our language), it equates noble birth with noble character. D&D is trying to replicate that standard fantasy setting more than it tries to innovate within it, so of course it does the same.

[LudicSavant]

Fun fact, paladins have things other than Dexterity to invest in!

And? The same is true for Strength.

[jaappleton]

My reasons:

It’s difficult to get a bonus action ability as a Paladin that doesn’t utilize Strength. No PAM, no shield bashing via Shield Master, etc.

I am a firm believer in fully utilizing action economy.

[MrStabby]

And? The same is true for Strength.

Slightly less true - diminishing returns for strength kick in earlier as once you have enough for your armour it only boosts attack and damage and skills. This frees you up to push charisma instead. For dexterity it is a bit of a harder choice.

My reasons:

It’s difficult to get a bonus action ability as a Paladin that doesn’t utilize Strength. No PAM, no shield bashing via Shield Master, etc.

I am a firm believer in fully utilizing action economy.

Seriously... take a look at their spell list.

[LudicSavant]

Slightly less true - diminishing returns for strength kick in earlier as once you have enough for your armour it only boosts attack and damage and skills. This frees you up to push charisma instead. For dexterity it is a bit of a harder choice.

You can push Charisma first as a Dexadin too; you just wear medium armor for a while.

[jaappleton]

Slightly less true - diminishing returns for strength kick in earlier as once you have enough for your armour it only boosts attack and damage and skills. This frees you up to push charisma instead. For dexterity it is a bit of a harder choice.





Seriously... take a look at their spell list.

I want to take a brief moment to recognize the irony of someone called MrStabby telling me that Paladin spell slots are utilized for more than Smite.
(Can’t figure out how to do Blue Text on mobile, so work with me here)

EDIT: more THAN Smite, get it together me.

[heavyfuel]

There's nothing universal to all wizards that forbids them to wear armor, except for their lack of proficiency with armor

There is a difference between "mages have to spend time studying and therefore don't have the time to learn how to properly use armor and weapons" and "paladins are trained with literally every weapon in existence and can learn how to use them more effectively via Fighting Styles, but for some reason they cannot possibly learn how to hit harder with their left hand"

[5eNeedsDarksun]

My reasons:

It’s difficult to get a bonus action ability as a Paladin that doesn’t utilize Strength. No PAM, no shield bashing via Shield Master, etc.

I am a firm believer in fully utilizing action economy.

You are right about Shield Master, but a 1 level dip in Rogue for Athletics expertise gives enough benefit that the 13/14 Str required is more than enough to make it work reliably.

[MrStabby]

You can push Charisma first as a Dexadin too; you just wear medium armor for a while.

I never said you couldn't, just that there was an extra marginal cost in terms of AC to doing it with dex.

I want to take a brief moment to recognize the irony of someone called MrStabby telling me that Paladin spell slots are utilized for more than Smite.
(Can’t figure out how to do Blue Text on mobile, so work with me here)

EDIT: more THAN Smite, get it together me.

Well... its just another form of smiting! Although spells like shield of faith help you to stay in the fight to stab them longer. Divine favour lets you stab them harder. Find steed lets you get to them faster to stab them sooner...

[LudicSavant]

I never said you couldn't, just that there was an extra marginal cost in terms of AC to doing it with dex.

Right, you said diminishing returns for Strength kick in earlier.

But that doesn't actually establish how good any given Strength build is compared to any given Dexterity build, so it kind of seems like a moot point.

[Potato_Priest]

Earliest for 20 Dex is actually level 1 with rolling, and level 4 with point buy (via CL+Half Feat).

Pardon me, but what's CL?

[LudicSavant]

Pardon me, but what's CL?

Custom Lineage (the Tasha's race option). It allows you to start with 17 in a stat, and get a half-feat, allowing you to start with an 18 using Point Buy or Standard Array.