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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    So to start, I've only ever been a druid one other time and it was completely healing based. I didnt enjoy it much. Im hoping to make a more melee type druid this time...

    The dm only uses 3.5. No homebrews. We're starting at lvl 5 (leveled up as if we had started from level 1). Hero stats (I think thats what its called).

    I want to do a druid, probably human. However our other characters are a cleric and a tiefling and non of them are very melee based. So I'd like to make my druid melee based. Or at least have her have a good amount of battlefield-control type spells/abilities. A focus on wild shape, use of my animal companion, and some summoning and melee type spells. A little healing would probably be good too but maybe not since we'll have a cleric... I dont know if that's all possible, but as close as we can get would be good.

    Right now I chose my animal companion to be a Warbeast Leopard.

    Thanks for any help or suggestions! I dont know what feats I should pick, where I should focus my ability scores, what skills would be best, spells, etc.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Well, for ability scores: wisdom primary, constitution second, the other mental stats a distant third, and strength and dexterity are almost useless. You will take natural spell at 6th, being the best druid feat in the game.

    A question you will want to ask yourself is: “Do I want to be melee myself, or do I want to provide meleeage?” Your animal companion and summoned creatures can provide an effective frontline even if you act as a ranged combatant.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Ok, so good news: the druid can do all of that pretty well. The spell list has battlefield control stuff, buffs, summoning, healing and spells that'll boost your melee effectiveness. Once you hit 6th level, there's a feat called Natural Spell, that will basically allow you to just stay in wild shape most of the time, because it lets you still cast spells.

    The bad news is, druids are complicated, because you've got a lot of options, and it's easy to get overwhelmed. If your DM is allowing all the various WotC-published 3.5 books, including the obscure ones, and only saying 'no homebrews', you are probably the most powerful class in the game, but you will also have a lot to keep track of.

    There's a Druid Handbook on the forums, here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...Druid-Handbook
    The person saying 'This isn't a handbook — it's an encyclopaedia.' is entirely right, but again, heed my warning about getting overwhelmed. I'm guessing you're relatively new to D&D or at least haven't really delved into the weird obscure stuff that can be done by mashing together things from wildly unrelated books? Take things slow, and honestly, don't worry *too* much about being 'optimised'. You're going to have a lot of fun stuff you can do, just by virtue of being a druid.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombulian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    If your DM allows Dragon Magazine then the Swift Avenger feat from Dragon #357 and a 1 level dip into Scout for full skirmish progression is a really easy way to boost damage output on a Druid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    How complex are you comfortable with your combat being? Summoning can provide a lot of powerful melee options, on top of wildshape, but it's much harder than just going "I bite." On the other hand, keeping track on your stats in different forms is a lot of book-keeping outside of combat.

    Also, besides "not homebrew", what are the available resources, and what's the expected power level? Druids can be really powerful when optimized, and we don't know what the cleric is doing, and what class the tiefling is.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    First of all, only take levels of Druid. Don't multiclass, don't bother looking at prestige classes. Nothing you find will make you better at being a Druid without a decent amount of system mastery, just plain Druid 20 is easily good enough.

    Second, don't bother trying to do melee when you're not wild shaped into a capable animal form. You can only wild shape 1/day for 5 hours at this level, and you likely can't cast spells when wild shaped, so your character going full melee likely won't come online until you gain one more level.

    Third, a Druid is naturally good at doing all the things at once. Need to heal someone? Cast summon nature's ally for a unicorn and have it do the healing. Need to keep opponents at bay? Cast entangle, or wall of thorns, or summon animals that can improved grab them (crocodiles, lions, bears, etc.), or have a greenbound summon make a wall of thorns and spam entangles. Need to deal ranged damage? Cast splinterbolt, or (lesser rod of extended) creeping cold. Need to take opponents out of the fight? Cast kelpstrand, or call avalanche, or drop a wall of thorns on top of them (or have a greenbound summon do that). Want to do melee attacks? Turn into a physically strong animal, cast enhance wild shape, cast (extended) bite of the werewolf/werebore/werebear/weretiger, cast produce flame and add fire damage to your melee attacks per holding the charge on a touch spell. Plus you'll have an animal companion that's a stronger combatant than most of the other characters in your party, even without buffing it.

    Fourth, be sure to read up on how wild shape works after the errata. The SRD Druid should be current, and links to any other relevant rules.

    For feats, as already said your 6th level feat (or sooner, if possible) should be Natural Spell. Other strong feats to pick include Ashbound, Greenbound Summoning, Natural Bond, and Multiattack. You can get a 'level -3' animal companion such as a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3) or Dire Eagle (RoS) and Natural Bond will allow you to count your full Druid level toward its benefits. You can summon critters to help hold the line, and both Ashbound and Greenbound Summoning help make them better. Multiattack (MM) is an obvious choice if you use forms that have many types of attacks. If you don't get the fleshraker, Exalted Companion in BoED allows you to get a celestial version of our animal companion which allows it to take Vow of Poverty. If you do get the fleshraker, cast (extended) venomfire on it do add an absurd amount of damage to most of its attacks. You can turn into one of those and cast that on yourself as well.

    Starting items should include a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, a Wilding Clasp (MIC) or Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC), a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, decent armor and a heavy wooden shield. Plan to get items from the Trappings of the Beast set in CC (Armor of the Beast, Ring of the Beast, Mantle of the Beast), the Raiment of the Stormwalker set in MIC, a Monk's Belt, enhancement bonuses to ability scores added to those items that naturally continue working when you're wild shaped (MIC p234), and Wilding Clasps (MIC). The Monk's Belt gives you the full Monk AC bonus class feature, which includes adding your Wis bonus to your AC, and also allows you to full attack with unarmed strikes and iterative attacks when wild shaped, plus you can make your natural weapon attacks afterward as secondary attacks. Wild armor/shield still melds into your form when you wild shape, so you're not considered to be wearing armor or carrying a shield. Even though you still gain the AC bonuses from those, you'll also benefit from the Monk AC bonus at the same time. Another option is to cast (Rod of) Extended Luminous Armor (BoED) every day, and use the Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Str damage that occurs when it ends.

    If you can use Flaws and/or Traits from UA, definitely do so. You can take up to two flaws when creating a character and each gives you an extra feat. Since you're creating this character at 5th level, you can say you gained a flaw at your current level and select Natural Spell for the feat it grants. For the specific flaws you take, I'd go with Bestial Instinct and Love of Nature. For traits, Uncivilized would be fitting, and the Slow trait can be mitigated by casting (Rod of Extended) Longstrider and/or wild shaping, as it doesn't affect the speed of the forms you take.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lablamires View Post
    Right now I chose my animal companion to be a Warbeast Leopard.
    Wait, is your GM letting you just apply the Warbeast template to your animal companion for free? Jesus. The benefits the template gives aren't phenomenal - if it cost as much as getting the next level up of animal companions, it wouldn't be worth it at all - but getting them all completely free is amazing.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombulian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    snip
    Not strictly on topic but I’m not sure the Hold the Charge thing works with Produce Flame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Have a look at my beloved Papa Smurf build (see signature) that gets to less attention ^^

    It is a full optimized build so be careful if you want to copy it for you table. It's a double ubercharger build and if your DM can't handle damage optimization (1 hit = 1 kill with pounce full attack every turn) the build can be painful for him. So check with your group and adjust accordingly.

    That being said, the build makes use of a Fleshraker animal companion and the Redcap as wild shape (fey) form. Redcaps are small but can count medium and have absurd high stats that scale with HD. And wild shape progresses the available HD for your target forms. This increases your stats with every lvl. Combined with up to x6 charge damage multipliers you will annihilate anything as you hit it. Since the mount is of medium size and the Redcap is small, you can ride it anywhere where a medium sized creature would fit in. You never need to step down from your mount if you don't want to basically.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Originally Posted by H_H_F_F
    Also, besides "not homebrew", what are the available resources, and what's the expected power level?
    Seconding this. It really would help to know what 3.5 books your DM is allowing, whether Dragon magazine is on the table, etc.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    If you and the cleric are sharing healing duties, talk to the whole group and have everyone chip in some money for a wand or three of the lesser vigor spell (from the Spell Compendium). It provides fast healing 1 for 10 rounds + 1 round per level. That's 11 points of hp damage healed over the course of 11 rounds (1 point per round) at caster level 1. Not great for in-battle healing, but it's a fantastic way to heal up after a fight. And why should one or two party members use all of their resources and money healing everyone else when a cheap wand (750 gp for 50 charges, or 550 hp healed) can do most of it instead? If everyone chips in, you won't have part of the party bearing the burden while everyone else reaps the benefits.

    You may also want to ask your DM if you can build your warbeast friend and give him (her? it?) feats of your choice. If you can, maybe consider giving your kitty the Draconic Aura: Vigor feat (from the book Dragon Magic), which allows it to grant fast healing 1 to everyone around it, up to 1/2 their max hp. This will further save you on wand charges, keep it from getting ganked by enemies, and encourage the other players to protect it.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2021-02-22 at 11:59 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    I'm going to take a different tack and suggest that you be VERY cautious about following most of the advice in this thread or either of the druid handbooks.

    Druids are one of the 3-4 most powerful classes in the game and they're probably the easiest to build powerfully. As a result it's very easy to accidentally make a druid that outshines the rest of the party and makes the game a lot less fun for your friends. This is especially true if you're a new player and even more true if you're a new player playing in a group of new players.

    A lot of the advice is this thread is, imo, only appropriate for a high-optimisation game with an experienced GM who knows how to design sufficiently challenging encounters and players who won't fall behind.
    The Greenbound Summoning feat (recommended in this thread and available to a starting druid) for example lets you use a level 1 spell to summon a creature that can cast a level 5 spell AND multiple level 1 spells AND is probably able to out-fight the entire party at low levels. The Fleshraker dinosaur also recommended in this thread is similarly able to outfight many supposedly level appropriate challenges even before you start casting spells to buff it into the stratosphere ... and thats even withoit you wildshaping yourself into a second fleshraker and sharing every buff spell between the two of you. The list goes on.

    Unless you know your party is playing at a high level of optimisation (and the presence of a tiefling suggests they're probably not) I wouldn't worry about optimisation.
    Make sure Wisdom is your highest stat, select Natural Spell as your 6th level spell and just enjoy yourself.

    That said, here's another guidebook. Rather more succinct than the giantitp one.
    http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=940.0
    Last edited by Weasel of Doom; 2021-02-24 at 07:09 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel of Doom View Post
    I'm going to take a different tack and suggest that you be VERY cautious about following most of the advice in this thread or either of the druid handbooks.
    I agree... you need some of this thread's advice, but quite a bit of it can be kept in your back pocket for emergencies. Most of the tricks can be ignored most of the time, but then brought online within a day. You can decide what to wild shape into, swap out your spells every day, and you can also swap out your animal companion, for example.

    I think bare minimum, you would want a druid's vestment (in the srd) for an extra wild shape, and a pearl of speech (Magic Item Compendium?) so you can still talk in animal form. You can also equip your animal companion with barding and magic items. Totally agree with Natural Spell at level 6 too.

    Lets see, for inexpensive helpful items, Dragon Magazine 334 has Claw Extenders for 20 gold. They grant +1 damage to the front claws...

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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Yeah, I'd like to join to the voices calling for you to be careful with many of these suggestions. This is why i made this a part of my original reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    ...what's the expected power level? Druids can be really powerful when optimized, and we don't know what the cleric is doing, and what class the tiefling is.
    If you've got two optimizers with you playing T1 casters, you'd be fine taking greenbound summoning and ashbound. If you've got a cleric focused on healing and a tiefling rogue, an optimized druid would be way outside the expected power level.

    I'd like to add that a lot of people think of these things only mechanically, but maybe you wanted to have a wolf as an animal companion, and not a dinosaur or a riding dog. That's great and ok. Don't let optimization hurt your fun.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    I'd like to think my suggestion isn't included in the warnings. Efficiency at out-of-combat healing is hardly overpowered, after all (especially if you're not being forced to pay for all of it yourself from your WBL).

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    If the tiefling is a rogue, then summoning "flank buddies" for that rogue will make them buy you flowers.

    Light the lamp not the rat LIGHT THE LAMP NOT THE RAT!!!

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    If the tiefling is a rogue, then summoning "flank buddies" for that rogue will make them buy you flowers.
    Well, evil flowers, but still.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    If the tiefling is a rogue, then summoning "flank buddies" for that rogue will make them buy you flowers.
    Yeah, but wolf buddies would be much more appreciated than green-ash-bound-malar bodies.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Oh one nice thing about druids is that you don't need to prepare Summon Nature's Ally spells at the beginning of the day. You can prepare other spells and change those into Summon Nature's Ally if you need to cast Summon Nature's Ally. So that gives you both flexibility in spell choice and a guarantee that you will have Summon Nature's Ally available as long as you have spells of level 1 or higher available.

    Light the lamp not the rat LIGHT THE LAMP NOT THE RAT!!!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    First of all, only take levels of Druid. Don't multiclass, don't bother looking at prestige classes. Nothing you find will make you better at being a Druid without a decent amount of system mastery, just plain Druid 20 is easily good enough.
    Agree with this whole post, just wanted to make a comment on the prestige class comment. There are only 2 prestige classes that actually offer any Real benefit over Druid 20. Planar shepherd and Lion of Talisid. Shepherd is flat out game breaking. Lion adds some free feats while penalizing you 2 levels on your wild shape progression. Everything else hinders BAB, casting or wild shape more than any benefit you get.

    For a combat Druid, Lion is pretty good. Immunity to fear (& +4 to will saves vs other mind effects), Scent, Pounce, and Exalted Companion as free feats, only miss out on getting to be a large elemental when compared to Druid 20, and some of the nature based Druid abilities.

    Also, Claws of the Beast (savage species) plus a wilding charm gets you a size increase on your claw attacks while wild shaped. Also get a Monks Belt for your animal companion as well, then you can boost your spell saves, your AC and your companions AC with a single spell (owls wisdom or owls insight)

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    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Practical suggestion: Druid is one of the classes that requires a bit of homework. Find out what summons you can cast at your level, and bring printed-out sheets and statblocks with you to the session, so you're ready to go as soon as they're needed. This is particularly important for the first few sessions, as the group is getting used to each other. Making the session grind to a halt with, "Hold on, I need to look up what I can summon," gets old really quickly.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Practical suggestion: Druid is one of the classes that requires a bit of homework. Find out what summons you can cast at your level, and bring printed-out sheets and statblocks with you to the session, so you're ready to go as soon as they're needed. This is particularly important for the first few sessions, as the group is getting used to each other. Making the session grind to a halt with, "Hold on, I need to look up what I can summon," gets old really quickly.
    I'll second that. You'd do well to do the same with your wild shape forms too.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Melee Druid? (semi-new to d&d)

    Quote Originally Posted by DwarvenWarCorgi View Post
    Agree with this whole post, just wanted to make a comment on the prestige class comment. There are only 2 prestige classes that actually offer any Real benefit over Druid 20. Planar shepherd and Lion of Talisid. Shepherd is flat out game breaking. Lion adds some free feats while penalizing you 2 levels on your wild shape progression. Everything else hinders BAB, casting or wild shape more than any benefit you get.
    Well, there's also Moonspeaker (for the Shifter race only, but quite good) and arguably Warshaper (which sacrifices casting and Wild Shape for a few levels, but gives you so much for melee combat that it's arguably net 0 for a few levels and probably positive if you're only dipping Warshaper 1).
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