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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    and at cr12 virtually everything has dr and renewable healing. it actually might be literally everything. havent seen a monster without either in forever.
    The Monster Manual contains 15 CR 12 monsters. Seven of them -the elder black pudding, displacer beast pack lord, frost worm, kraken, colossal monstrous scorpion, purple worm, and roper - lack both damage reduction and regeneration/fast healing. Additionally, the adult brass dragon and young adult bronze dragon only have DR 5/magic.
    I'm making a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.

  2. - Top - End - #62

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    The problem with all of this is that unlike animate dead, the skull lord has this as infinite use. It's not just "I create three serpentirs," it's "I create 3 serpentirs. Oh no they all died. Well, I create 3 more serpentirs. Oh no, they all died. Well, 3 more."

    Even without buffs, that will eventually kill anything without dr 10 or renewable healing.
    By this logic, Summon Elemental Reserve Feat is too "silly" as well.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    dont undead have a rule that if it dies it stays dead and can only be revived via revive undead spell?

    and at cr12 virtually everything has dr and renewable healing. it actually might be literally everything. havent seen a monster without either in forever.
    1st paragraph: Yes, certainly. But the skull lord can create more. What, just because it can only control 3, doesn't mean that's all it can create. If the 3 are destroyed, it can then create more right?

    2nd paragraph:
    Werewolf lord in human form, cr 14 no dr, no healng.
    Any lvl 12 humanoid.
    Advanced giant squid, cr 10 no dr, no healing.
    Golden Protector, dr 5/ magic. Cr 13. Dr overcome with magic fang.

    And these were just off the srd searched in 15 minutes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, your roleplaying guide is pretty much "Live Fast, Die Young, Leave a confusing corpse"?

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    The Monster Manual contains 15 CR 12 monsters. Seven of them -the elder black pudding, displacer beast pack lord, frost worm, kraken, colossal monstrous scorpion, purple worm, and roper - lack both damage reduction and regeneration/fast healing. Additionally, the adult brass dragon and young adult bronze dragon only have DR 5/magic.
    Also, at least 1 of them, the black pudding, would not think to investigate the endless stream of 3x serpentirs coming to attack it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, your roleplaying guide is pretty much "Live Fast, Die Young, Leave a confusing corpse"?

  5. - Top - End - #65

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    1st paragraph: Yes, certainly. But the skull lord can create more. What, just because it can only control 3, doesn't mean that's all it can create. If the 3 are destroyed, it can then create more right?
    where you gonna get the bones at. if you have infinite bones then i refer you to magicalmagicmans skeletons.

    whatever im done talking about 3 cr4 creatures being super op. if the dm cannot handle a pc with 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level then you are playing a seriously underpowered campaign. in the level of planar binding with surge of fortune and artificial corpses, 3 cr4 creatures breaking the game... yeah.

    as someone who has used 10 bison zombies in a game at level 4 and ditched them all because of how horrid and worthless they were, if your table cant handle a pc using 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level then whatever. 3 cr4 creatures is op as hell for your table.

    just make a new thread asking everyone just how op a player with 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level is. see how many tables are really that underpowered.

    edit: in fact i make 1000 scythers of thoon at 10th level and i use none of them in combat because of how worthless they are. but yup, 3 cr4 creatures is game breaking.
    edit2: at 11th level i am charging wtih a steel predator with overland flight, girallon's blessing, persistent wraithstrike and persistent bite of the weretiger for a grand total of 300 damage a round and even this isnt that good and i get my ass kicked. but yeah, 3 cr4 creatures, thats totally op.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2021-02-27 at 08:35 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    where you gonna get the bones at. if you have infinite bones then i refer you to magicalmagicmans skeletons.

    whatever im done talking about 3 cr4 creatures being super op. if the dm cannot handle a pc with 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level then he seriously needs to get good. in the level of planar binding with surge of fortune and artificial corpses, 3 cr4 creatures breaking the game... yeah.

    as someone who has used 10 bison zombies in a game at level 4 and ditched them all because of how horrid and worthless they were, if your table cant handle a pc using 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level then whatever. 3 cr4 creatures is op as hell for your table.

    just make a new thread asking everyone just how op a player with 3 cr4 creatures at 12th level is. see how many tables are really that underpowered.

    edit: in fact i make 1000 scythers of thoon at 10th level and i use none of them in combat because of how worthless they are. but yup, 3 cr4 creatures is game breaking.
    12th level? You're talking about 1st level. I was talking about 7th level. How much do bones cost? "I stuff 1000 corpses into my bag of holding. I raid graveyards until I have 1000." What's the gold cost? NOTHING.

    We're not talking about 3 cr 4s. We're talking infinite waves of 3 cr 4s. Your ability to gauge usefulness of minions is severely weak. A group of enlarged bison using stampede can literally take down an army properly buffed.

    Proper use of minions can obliterate games. Infinite free buffable minions can easily break things.

    Edit:
    examples: I cast fly and invisibility on each. I send them into town. They attack. After they reach town, I create 3 more. I send them charging toward the gate. As soon as they reach the gate, I create 3 more. I send thrm charging at the gate. I keep going until all defenders are dead, or they are no longer dealing damage to the defenders. I then create a set of stairs against the wall for the now uncontrolled serpentirs to go over. Town destroyed. If no further damage is being done, I just create a few hundred while traveling and leave them in the road because why not. They're uncontrolled but what do I care? It doesn't even cost me entire corpses, just a few bone fragments.
    And hey, more towns exist. In the meantime, I will kill random passerbys because xp. And oh look.. I ran into a bunch of uncontrolled serpentirs who can't touch me because I am flying. Let's go ahead and kill them for xp. Doesn't matter thst I created them, they're uncontrolled....
    Last edited by Calthropstu; 2021-02-27 at 09:09 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    12th level? You're talking about 1st level. I was talking about 7th level. How much do bones cost? "I stuff 1000 corpses into my bag of holding. I raid graveyards until I have 1000." What's the gold cost? NOTHING.

    We're not talking about 3 cr 4s. We're talking infinite waves of 3 cr 4s. Your ability to gauge usefulness of minions is severely weak. A group of enlarged bison using stampede can literally take down an army properly buffed.

    Proper use of minions can obliterate games. Infinite free buffable minions can easily break things.

    Edit:
    examples: I cast fly and invisibility on each. I send them into town. They attack. After they reach town, I create 3 more. I send them charging toward the gate. As soon as they reach the gate, I create 3 more. I send thrm charging at the gate. I keep going until all defenders are dead, or they are no longer dealing damage to the defenders. I then create a set of stairs against the wall for the now uncontrolled serpentirs to go over. Town destroyed. If no further damage is being done, I just create a few hundred while traveling and leave them in the road because why not. They're uncontrolled but what do I care? It doesn't even cost me entire corpses, just a few bone fragments.
    And hey, more towns exist. In the meantime, I will kill random passerbys because xp. And oh look.. I ran into a bunch of uncontrolled serpentirs who can't touch me because I am flying. Let's go ahead and kill them for xp. Doesn't matter thst I created them, they're uncontrolled....
    lets see
    zombie bison group 1 died to mounted units kiting them.
    zombie bison group 2 died to a spined devil
    zombie bison group 3 died to a guecubu
    zombie bison group 4 died to 2 enemy wizards that cast command undead on more than half of them
    zombie dire bat group 1 failed to do jack against spined devils.
    zombie bison group 5 died to a single narzugon kiting them on land

    ...and wtf? your saying uncontrolled serpentirs wont kill you immediately and instead fight for you and you get xp from their kills?

    i used to make riding dog zombies at 2nd level and bison zombies at 4th level but they were significantly inadequate. serpentirs is a small upgrade to them. if theyre so powerful they curb stomp cr12 encounters at your table then whatever. the tricks i come up with is not meant to be used in low op games.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2021-02-28 at 12:33 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: skull lord and assume supernatural ability

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    ...and wtf? your saying uncontrolled serpentirs wont kill you immediately and instead fight for you and you get xp from their kills?
    .
    No. I am saying that you create more AFTER they reach town and are already engaged.

    You then create more making them uncontrolled (but still engaged) in order to attack other parts of the town. Eventually you swarm the town with uncontrolled undead.

    Then you travel. You create some serpentirs. And oops, I created a 4th serpentir. The first one is now uncontrolled so it attacks. You kill it, gaining xp. Wash rinse repeat. Looking at what you posted, it was EXACTLY what I thought. You are going up against things far above your level, and are doing exactly what you should not be doing and your gm is custom targetting your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, your roleplaying guide is pretty much "Live Fast, Die Young, Leave a confusing corpse"?

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