Mage Ascension Anniversary Edition Crafting ->with Exalted system?

[Justanotherhero]

Hi!

I offered to ST Mages the Ascension Anniversary Edition. And one of my players is very Wonders interested.

The anniversary edition does not have a crafting system I believe.

What would you say to the idea of stealing Exalted second Editons craft rules for Wonders?

Or have you found a better published or homebrew system?

Would this kill you motivation asa player to craft? Would you say it represents the world adequately?

[Quertus]

IIRC, crafting in *most* editions of Mage was horrific, requiring massive XP investment… to create items that could cast the same spells that you already could cast.

So, you spend 10-20 sessions worth of XP to get… nothing.

Not terribly good, from a Determinator PoV. Didn't stop me from crafting a few items, though.

[Justanotherhero]

You wouldn't happen to remember the book those rules were in ?
Good to know that you were still motivated!

[Quertus]

I'll see if I can research it here at some point. But the quick of it is… hmmm… my guess is, add up spheres used for each effect, and multiply by 3?

So a "blast" effect is Forces 3, Prime 2, for 5 sphere levels. "Create Food" might be Matter 3, Prime 2, for 5 sphere levels. So a super high-tech flame thrower that also dispenses granola bars *might* therefore cost 30 XP to make.

Maybe.

I'll see if I can find my source.

[Justanotherhero]

Thank you!

[Max_Killjoy]

I got the impression that the WW devs didn't want players crafting magic items, and just sort of dropped that in as a "OK but it's not worth it" block.

[anthon]

I got the impression that the WW devs didn't want players crafting magic items, and just sort of dropped that in as a "OK but it's not worth it" block.

i think you just hit the nail on the head of many lousy mechanics.

When the authors are both lazy and don't want you to do something, they make it cost prohibitive outside the logic of the native narrative of the genre. 3e magic items for example drained levels, in essence, while in 5e one of the items has like a 40-50 year creation span. Compare to AD&D where you were literally awarded XP for creating spells/magic items and each was considered its own quest arc.


Mage the Ascension had fun magical theory, and i personally tried digging into the exalted magic item/spell system but it was too weird and incompatible from the angle of constant DC vs. mage's variable DC with modifiers.

What I would recommend is thinking about all objects as baseline Matter,
then consider all enchantment a process of Prime attunement.

After that, a little magical thinking and Sympathetic magical theory and you simply plug in the dots and get extended actions + successes.

Another alternative is digging into artifacts as backgrounds, then looking up the XP cost in some editions for purchasing backgrounds. This ends up being a cheap direct route. A storyteller could calculate the total XP then convert that XP into stages of scenes and quest elements, such as a 12 point item being broken into 5-6 steps of creation/questing/missing components and enchantments, each worth 2-3 points.

[lightningcat]

The best Mage crafting system is in Forged by Dragon Fire. No xp cost that I remember, other than spending a permanent Willpower for some items. Lots of tass cost, and you need high Prime, and often other spheres. In the Revised SoE book, they introduced gadget spheres, which cost half the normal price and can only be used to create wonders. This can be upgraded later to normal spheres. While OoH had rote spheres, that only could be used for rotes.

[Quertus]

The best Mage crafting system is in Forged by Dragon Fire. No xp cost that I remember, other than spending a permanent Willpower for some items. Lots of tass cost, and you need high Prime, and often other spheres. In the Revised SoE book, they introduced gadget spheres, which cost half the normal price and can only be used to create wonders. This can be upgraded later to normal spheres. While OoH had rote spheres, that only could be used for rotes.

Oh, yes, and costs a permanent willpower to create (so an extra account of XP, in effect) - I forgot that bit!

What is "Forged by Dragon Fire"?

Also no XP cost in… Dark Ages, IIRC.

In WoD Mage 2nd edition, Create Talisman is a Prime 3 effect. Of course, under "Talisman and Fetish Creation", it says it requires Prime 4 (and a permanent Willpower, and 10 successes). Then 10 Quintessence (and equal successes) per point of Arete. Then 1 Quintessence (and one success on Arete diff 8) per sphere dot, at 1 day per roll. Then actually charge it with Quintessence with Prime 4.

It's one of 2 pages I have bookmarked. Because I'm just crazy like that.

[lightningcat]

Oh, yes, and costs a permanent willpower to create (so an extra account of XP, in effect) - I forgot that bit!

What is "Forged by Dragon Fire"?

Revised Book. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...y-Dragons-Fire
Has rules for making most types of wonders from charms to fetishes to pariapts, along with examples of each. Also has not so good rules for familiars.

[Justanotherhero]

I got the impression that the WW devs didn't want players crafting magic items, and just sort of dropped that in as a "OK but it's not worth it" block.

Yeah very likely at least for a Storyteller looking for answers.

i think you just hit the nail on the head of many lousy mechanics.

When the authors are both lazy and don't want you to do something, they make it cost prohibitive outside the logic of the native narrative of the genre. 3e magic items for example drained levels, in essence, while in 5e one of the items has like a 40-50 year creation span. Compare to AD&D where you were literally awarded XP for creating spells/magic items and each was considered its own quest arc.


Mage the Ascension had fun magical theory, and i personally tried digging into the exalted magic item/spell system but it was too weird and incompatible from the angle of constant DC vs. mage's variable DC with modifiers.

What I would recommend is thinking about all objects as baseline Matter,
then consider all enchantment a process of Prime attunement.

After that, a little magical thinking and Sympathetic magical theory and you simply plug in the dots and get extended actions + successes.

Another alternative is digging into artifacts as backgrounds, then looking up the XP cost in some editions for purchasing backgrounds. This ends up being a cheap direct route. A storyteller could calculate the total XP then convert that XP into stages of scenes and quest elements, such as a 12 point item being broken into 5-6 steps of creation/questing/missing components and enchantments, each worth 2-3 points.

Out of curiosity did or would you implement that system with xp costs or without?

The best Mage crafting system is in Forged by Dragon Fire. No xp cost that I remember, other than spending a permanent Willpower for some items. Lots of tass cost, and you need high Prime, and often other spheres. In the Revised SoE book, they introduced gadget spheres, which cost half the normal price and can only be used to create wonders. This can be upgraded later to normal spheres. While OoH had rote spheres, that only could be used for rotes.

Thank you very much for the Tipp!