DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

[Rynjin]

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Akuma fought Shang Tsung last time. I knew Shao Kahn was probably the most likely opponent, but I was hoping for one of Raoh from Fist of the North Star, Garou from One Punch Man, or Yujiro Hanma from Baki.

While not out of character for a Death Battle, Garou and to a lesser extent Yujiro would body any fighting game character they put them up against making it a one-side and boring fight. Garou is in a completely other power scale (as in I'd call something like Garou vs Yamcha a cool match), and Yujiro...is about as inconsistent as a DC comics character in terms of feats.

Raoh would be interesting though.

[Iamyourking]

Raoh is my top pick of the three for precisely that reason. It's alright to have the occasional stomp if it would make for an interesting fight, and Garou's escalation of power would allow him to be an fair fight for Akuma for enough time to make it interesting. I didn't think Yujiro had anything dramatically better than Akuma blowing up an island though. He's far stronger than casual building destroyers, is comparable to Yuichiro, who survived a small nuke, and stopped an earthquake with a punch; but none of that seems out of Akuma's league.
Also, there's always the unlikely possibility that they use Akuma's appearance in an Asura's Wrath DLC to scale him to Asura; at which point he murders Kahn, Yujiro, and Raoh and probably beats Garou.

[Rynjin]

Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with Akuma. I figured he wouldn't have anything comparable to the absurd "punch an earthquake" feat.

[Forum Explorer]

Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with Akuma. I figured he wouldn't have anything comparable to the absurd "punch an earthquake" feat.

Akuma sank an island once.

Spoiler: This time

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Against the Alucard they used, I don't disagree with their logic. But I do disagree with their logic on why they couldn't use Schordinger. We do see what Alucard's power is like without all his souls. That's him at level 0. So it would basically be that, but literally can't die.

And Alucard might not be a genius, but he is both resistant to hypnosis and not an idiot. Once Dio hid from the Sun, he'd pick up on that weakness, and exploit it brutally, likely going as far as to destroy whatever city Dio is hiding in, in order to expose him to light.

Or you know, finding a nuke and setting it off on Dio. The sun's energy is just a nuclear reaction. No reason a fusion bomb shouldn't have the same effect.

[Dragonus45]

Akuma sank an island once.

Spoiler: This time

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Against the Alucard they used, I don't disagree with their logic. But I do disagree with their logic on why they couldn't use Schordinger. We do see what Alucard's power is like without all his souls. That's him at level 0. So it would basically be that, but literally can't die.

And Alucard might not be a genius, but he is both resistant to hypnosis and not an idiot. Once Dio hid from the Sun, he'd pick up on that weakness, and exploit it brutally, likely going as far as to destroy whatever city Dio is hiding in, in order to expose him to light.

Or you know, finding a nuke and setting it off on Dio. The sun's energy is just a nuclear reaction. No reason a fusion bomb shouldn't have the same effect.

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They didn't use the epilogue Alucard because it is still highly unclear what he is and is not capable of at the end there. It's a minefield they were better off avoiding.

[Forum Explorer]

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They didn't use the epilogue Alucard because it is still highly unclear what he is and is not capable of at the end there. It's a minefield they were better off avoiding.

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Unclear maybe, but the only question they need to answer is: Can Alucard use the abilities of the souls he consumes?

If yes, than Alucard can stall out Dio until he has to hide from the sun. And then Alucard can exploit that weakness.

It doesn't actually matter if Alucard loses all of his other abilities, none of them would help him hurt Dio anyways. But we know that he would still have a bunch of abilities anyways because the Seras the Police Girl is a vampire with only 1 soul, and we know what she can do.

Basically Death Battle was lazy.

[Dragonus45]

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Unclear maybe, but the only question they need to answer is: Can Alucard use the abilities of the souls he consumes?

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Also Unclear, and anyone who says they know otherwise or that they know what Alucard's powers really are post epilogue is selling you a something. It's a bridge best left uncrossed for death battle.

[Forum Explorer]

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Also Unclear, and anyone who says they know otherwise or that they know what Alucard's powers really are post epilogue is selling you a something. It's a bridge best left uncrossed for death battle.

Spoiler: This battle

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They are fully willing and have made decisions about what powers people have, in ways that are flat out illogical.

Making a judgement call on how Schrodingers powers would work with Alucard is flat out reasonable in comparison.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Hellsing Epilogue

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In the Epilogue, when explaining how he returned, Alucard explicitly says that he has one soul left and that he is now "Everwhere and Nowhere."

Which is how Schrodinger's powers are described.

Ergo, in Alucard's own words, he has Shrodinger's powers.

[Dragonus45]

Spoiler: This battle

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They are fully willing and have made decisions about what powers people have, in ways that are flat out illogical.

Making a judgement call on how Schrodingers powers would work with Alucard is flat out reasonable in comparison.

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As insane, and outright contradictory, as DB's insane nonlogic can be they at least usually aim for something with basis in the story. There is no basis in the story for Epilogue Alucard because the story ends about three pages after we find out he exists again.

Spoiler: Hellsing Epilogue

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In the Epilogue, when explaining how he returned, Alucard explicitly says that he has one soul left and that he is now "Everwhere and Nowhere."

Which is how Schrodinger's powers are described.

Ergo, in Alucard's own words, he has Shrodinger's powers.

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A decent assumption, but not a certainty.

[Forum Explorer]

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As insane, and outright contradictory, as DB's insane nonlogic can be they at least usually aim for something with basis in the story. There is no basis in the story for Epilogue Alucard because the story ends about three pages after we find out he exists again.

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A decent assumption, but not a certainty.

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Rater said is better than I. Alucard basically directly stated he had Scrodinger's powers. DB has justified worse with less before.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: A thought ccured to me

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The Ocean of blood is the aggregate form of all of Alucard's familiars.

Being engulfed by it is no different than being eaten by Baskerville.

In their depiction of the fight, the first time the ocean of blood slammed into Dio, Dio should have been subsumed.

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: A thought ccured to me

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The Ocean of blood is the aggregate form of all of Alucard's familiars.

Being engulfed by it is no different than being eaten by Baskerville.

In their depiction of the fight, the first time the ocean of blood slammed into Dio, Dio should have been subsumed.

Spoiler: Nah

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Even being eaten by Baskerville is proven to not actually be 'fatal'. That one Valatine brother was eaten by Baskerville and wasn't absorbed into Alucard. Dio is much much stronger than him, and should be able to pull himself out pretty easily.

My problem with the fight is that Alucard had no reason to use level 0 in the first place. It doesn't actually make him stronger, it just lets him attack more people. A good tool when fighting an army, basically useless when fighting a single hyper powerful dude.

Also I did the math. Even if Alucard just stood there and let Dio kill him repeatedly, the sun would've risen way before he got through Alucard's reserve of souls, and thus revealing Dio's critical weakness to Alucard.

[Traab]

Spoiler: A thought ccured to me

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The Ocean of blood is the aggregate form of all of Alucard's familiars.

Being engulfed by it is no different than being eaten by Baskerville.

In their depiction of the fight, the first time the ocean of blood slammed into Dio, Dio should have been subsumed.

I think we can do away with spoilers by now, I disagree. Even if that would be the case normally, dio literally sucks up blood through his hands. Fast enough to desiccate bodies in seconds. He drains them like a dude shotgunning a capri sun pouch, with the crumpled up container tossed aside at the end. Trying to drown/subsume someone in the one thing that makes them stronger makes as much sense as burning superman to death by throwing him into a yellow sun. Theoretically, it might work if he has some limit on his absorption rate, thats fairly standard fare for energy absorbing fights. But I dont think alucard has the oomph to do that. The force they gave him for controlling his blood ocean was pretty dang low iirc. Nothing stops dio from jumping in and out of that ocean till he drains it dry if alucard was dumb enough to leave it active.

[Serenity]

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Yeah, my takeaway from the initial descriptions was that, while Dio probably did have more sheer offensive power, Alucard had much greater defenses, to the point that if he hadn't used Level 0, Dio should have had no way to actually finish Alucard.

[Forum Explorer]

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Yeah, my takeaway from the initial descriptions was that, while Dio probably did have more sheer offensive power, Alucard had much greater defenses, to the point that if he hadn't used Level 0, Dio should have had no way to actually finish Alucard.

I mean, not quite. The only way Alucard could win is by exploiting Dio's weakness to sunlight in some way. And Dio could theoretically win by killing Alucard enough times to actually get through all of his lives. But that would take days to do, so Alucard would have that opportunity to expose Dio to sunlight.

[Rater202]

I think we can do away with spoilers by now, I disagree. Even if that would be the case normally, dio literally sucks up blood through his hands. Fast enough to desiccate bodies in seconds. He drains them like a dude shotgunning a capri sun pouch, with the crumpled up container tossed aside at the end. Trying to drown/subsume someone in the one thing that makes them stronger makes as much sense as burning superman to death by throwing him into a yellow sun. Theoretically, it might work if he has some limit on his absorption rate, thats fairly standard fare for energy absorbing fights. But I dont think alucard has the oomph to do that. The force they gave him for controlling his blood ocean was pretty dang low iirc. Nothing stops dio from jumping in and out of that ocean till he drains it dry if alucard was dumb enough to leave it active.

...But it's not actually blood. It looks like blood, but take a closer look and it's millions of damned souls smashed together.

Even if it wasn't, at the rate it moves Dio can't possibly absorb it fast enough to avoid getting engulfed—humans drink water but a title wave will still kick our ass—and it's a rule of the lore that Hellsing vampire biomatter i infections—every last one of millennium's vampires was born from traces of Mina Murrey's flesh being implanted in people, and she wasn't even fully turned, merely bitten.

[Dragonus45]

Spoiler: A thought ccured to me

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The Ocean of blood is the aggregate form of all of Alucard's familiars.

Being engulfed by it is no different than being eaten by Baskerville.

In their depiction of the fight, the first time the ocean of blood slammed into Dio, Dio should have been subsumed.

Spoiler

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Leaving aside the general issue of the actual fights themselves just being pretty visuals to go with the episode Dio literally absorbs blood so I don't think it interacts the way you want it too.

...But it's not actually blood. It looks like blood, but take a closer look and it's millions of damned souls smashed together.

Even if it wasn't, at the rate it moves Dio can't possibly absorb it fast enough to avoid getting engulfed—humans drink water but a title wave will still kick our ass—and it's a rule of the lore that Hellsing vampire biomatter i infections—every last one of millennium's vampires was born from traces of Mina Murrey's flesh being implanted in people, and she wasn't even fully turned, merely bitten.

Alucard absorbs peoples souls by drinking their blood, and when he summons all that at once it takes the form of something that at least looks like blood. I'm betting for our purposes it's still blood.

I mean, not quite. The only way Alucard could win is by exploiting Dio's weakness to sunlight in some way. And Dio could theoretically win by killing Alucard enough times to actually get through all of his lives. But that would take days to do, so Alucard would have that opportunity to expose Dio to sunlight.

How though, the power differential was overwhelming. Leaving aside the question of how Alucard takes advantage of Dio's sunlight weakness if Dio says "**** you I'm not going outside", he could literally just pick up Alucard and punt him across the globe to stay ahead of the sun till Alucard was dead. Nothing in the rules says they have to just stand still and trade punches in in London until the sun comes out.

[Rater202]

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Leaving aside the general issue of the actual fights themselves just being pretty visuals to go with the episode Dio literally absorbs blood so I don't think it interacts the way you want it too.

See the post literally right above yours: It's not actually blood, even if it was DIO couldn't absorb it fast enough to avoid being engulfed much the same way that humans can't drink a tidal wave, and in Hellsing canon ingesting vampiric biomatter is a bad idea.

[Traab]

See the post literally right above yours: It's not actually blood, even if it was DIO couldn't absorb it fast enough to avoid being engulfed much the same way that humans can't drink a tidal wave, and in Hellsing canon ingesting vampiric biomatter is a bad idea.

He wouldnt have to drink it all at once as there is literally nothing alucard could do to stop him from jumping in and out of it like a kiddie wading pool at will. And I count it as blood, its a representation of the blood he drank to take their souls in the first place. I suppose you could argue it isnt, but I say, much like his body. "Meh, close enough." Alucard just didnt have remotely the strength needed to do much of anything to dio. But I do agree that going level 0 was dumb as heck. I guess they just had to do it or else they would have needed an 8 hour time skip so we could reach dawn and alucard killed 900k times. Then dio just flat out LEAVES because again, alucard has nothing that can stop him in any way. He isnt strong enough to restrain him, isnt fast enough to keep up, and time stop means he just vanishes.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If Dio did hunker down when the sun came out, then Alucard could release restraint level 0 and use his army, first to find Dio and then to deconstruct his building down to the foundations until there was nowhere left to hide.

But I think Dio could probably dig his way to safety faster than that.

[Dragonus45]

See the post literally right above yours: It's not actually blood, even if it was DIO couldn't absorb it fast enough to avoid being engulfed much the same way that humans can't drink a tidal wave, and in Hellsing canon ingesting vampiric biomatter is a bad idea.

If it looks like blood, and everyone involved refers to it as blood, so it's blood. And even if it wasn't the idea that it covering someone is an instant win because Alucard also has a dog familiar that eats people is an even bigger stretch then him being totally immortal and undefeatable because he ate Schrodinger. Although you have a point about the blood being made of souls. Does that mean Dio drinking Alucard would start stealing souls away from him directly? But Dio's blood absorption power is shows to be able to drain a whole human of blood in seconds and nothing indicates he has a limit. Plus he is also a vampire, I see no reason he couldn't eat another vampire and be just fine.

[Forum Explorer]

How though, the power differential was overwhelming. Leaving aside the question of how Alucard takes advantage of Dio's sunlight weakness if Dio says "**** you I'm not going outside", he could literally just pick up Alucard and punt him across the globe to stay ahead of the sun till Alucard was dead. Nothing in the rules says they have to just stand still and trade punches in in London until the sun comes out.

How is easy, he finds wherever Dio is hiding, and simply destroys the area until there is no cover to hide Dio from the sun. He doesn't actually have to fight Dio at all, and can even do that from a distance further than Dio can fight back.

Hilariously, that whole punt Alucard thing wouldn't work because Alucard isn't durable enough. Any blow strong enough to send him flying a massive distance away would just splatter Alucard's body, and he'd just reform at Dio's feet.

Maybe the World could throw him instead, but Alucard has got wings. It's like throwing something with a parachute, the air resistance would drop the speed really quick.

Now it is true that Dio doesn't have to stay in London, but I doubt he'd be able to get out of the way of the sun fast enough. Remember, while the World moves at lightspeed, Dio himself is limited to much more normal speeds.

[Rater202]

If it looks like blood, and everyone involved refers to it as blood, so it's blood. And even if it wasn't the idea that it covering someone is an instant win because Alucard also has a dog familiar that eats people is an even bigger stretch then him being totally immortal and undefeatable because he ate Schrodinger. Although you have a point about the blood being made of souls. Does that mean Dio drinking Alucard would start stealing souls away from him directly? But Dio's blood absorption power is shows to be able to drain a whole human of blood in seconds and nothing indicates he has a limit. Plus he is also a vampire, I see no reason he couldn't eat another vampire and be just fine.

DIO is a completly different kind of vampire. If he took Alucard's blood into himself, he'd be infected with Alucard's vampirism, and Alucard's vampirism runs on Dracula rules: Once the vampirism is in you, the Vampire is in you. Alucard would be in Dio's mind, permanently.

Alucard is rather gentle doing this with Seras, but he'd have no reason not to do everything in his power not to frick up Dio's mind.

While we're not shown limits to Dio's ability to consume blood we can infer by the speed at which he desiccates a body...

If he could absorb an entire ocean of blood, it wouldn't take him seconds to desiccate a body. He'd just grab someone and they'd instantly shrivel to nothing. Logically speaking, if he got hit by it he'd be washed away and engulfed into it.

And again, it's not actually blood. Close-up shows that it's a million familiars mashed up together in a way that looks like blood from a distance. It flows like a liquid, but it's not a liquid.

If Dio was stupid enough to think he could just jump in, suck some up, and jump out he'd get grabbed by a dozen zombies and pulled deeper inside.

Then Alucard just has to reabsorb the familiars while Dio is inside and Dio is trapped inside Alucard until Alucard runs out of familiars to keep him buried. Or he'd just end up as one of Alucard's familiars.

[TeChameleon]

Honestly, that's all getting a bit more esoteric than Death Battle usually goes.

I suspect there's a reason they don't go too in-depth with weird power interactions, given that... I mean, how do you make a ruling when two universes have differing fundamental laws governing how the powers work? As far as I can tell, Jojo vampires have zilch to do with souls; if Alucard's ocean of blood is just souls that look like blood, would Dio even be able to drink it? The zombies in it are nowhere near strong enough to physically restrain Dio, so the whole 'blood ocean' thing would just make a mess if we start making rulings that go into a possibly-questionable area of the lore, and the battle would end in a total stalemate.

What seems to me to be typical is that when they end up in a situation where there's a complete mismatch between offense and defense- where one character has an overwhelming offensive advantage, but due to some quirk in power interactions or oddity of their opponent's defenses they can't totally finish them off, the defending character will play it dumb and 'make a critical error' to wrap the fight up in a reasonable length of time.

[HolyDraconus]

Gonna preamble with I had no dog in that fight.



From the way they are trying to spin it, Dio was several magnitudes stronger and faster than Alucard, and they went as far as to say Schrödinger would of at BEST been a temporary stalemate until Dio found a way around it. They also EXCLUDED World Over Heaven even though they stated it "was his future" because unlike the cat it would be a flat out auto win.

[Dragonus45]

How is easy, he finds wherever Dio is hiding, and simply destroys the area until there is no cover to hide Dio from the sun. He doesn't actually have to fight Dio at all, and can even do that from a distance further than Dio can fight back.

Hilariously, that whole punt Alucard thing wouldn't work because Alucard isn't durable enough. Any blow strong enough to send him flying a massive distance away would just splatter Alucard's body, and he'd just reform at Dio's feet.

Maybe the World could throw him instead, but Alucard has got wings. It's like throwing something with a parachute, the air resistance would drop the speed really quick.

Now it is true that Dio doesn't have to stay in London, but I doubt he'd be able to get out of the way of the sun fast enough. Remember, while the World moves at lightspeed, Dio himself is limited to much more normal speeds.

He literally couldn't catch Dio to trap him and destroy him, and if he really really needed to he could pick him up and deposit him on the other side of the world to escape the sun. It's not some big winning play, Alucard does not have the tools to ever take advantage of it. Not as big as the gap in their power is. And no, Dio's BS Vampire body could easily outrun the sun.

EDIT And I totally forgot he could just have The World pick him up and leave with him.

DIO is a completly different kind of vampire. If he took Alucard's blood into himself, he'd be infected with Alucard's vampirism, and Alucard's vampirism runs on Dracula rules: Once the vampirism is in you, the Vampire is in you. Alucard would be in Dio's mind, permanently.

Bold series of assumptions.

Alucard is rather gentle doing this with Seras, but he'd have no reason not to do everything in his power not to frick up Dio's mind.

If he even could.

While we're not shown limits to Dio's ability to consume blood we can infer by the speed at which he desiccates a body...

If he could absorb an entire ocean of blood, it wouldn't take him seconds to desiccate a body. He'd just grab someone and they'd instantly shrivel to nothing. Logically speaking, if he got hit by it he'd be washed away and engulfed into it.

Probably momentarily.

And again, it's not actually blood. Close-up shows that it's a million familiars mashed up together in a way that looks like blood from a distance. It flows like a liquid, but it's not a liquid.

So it looks like blood, smells like blood, everyone calls it blood, and it comes from the blood drinking vampire who got that liquid by drinking the blood of others... but it's totally not blood guys!

If Dio was stupid enough to think he could just jump in, suck some up, and jump out he'd get grabbed by a dozen zombies and pulled deeper inside.

If they were physically strong enough to hold him... still probably no.

Then Alucard just has to reabsorb the familiars while Dio is inside and Dio is trapped inside Alucard until Alucard runs out of familiars to keep him buried. Or he'd just end up as one of Alucard's familiars.

An even bolder series of assumptions.

[Rynjin]

Dio cannot outrun the ****ing sun, what are you even on about?

[Traab]

Dio cannot outrun the ****ing sun, what are you even on about?

He only has to maintain a speed of roughly 1000 mph to stay ahead of the dawn. Pretty sure he can do way more than that.

[Rynjin]

There is never any indication he can move anywhere close to that fast. Is this DB pulling numbers out of their ass again? I never watch the videos.