DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Yeah if he could run anywhere near that fast, the guy with the fire stand never would have outrun him when Dio tried to recruit him.

[Forum Explorer]

He literally couldn't catch Dio to trap him and destroy him, and if he really really needed to he could pick him up and deposit him on the other side of the world to escape the sun. It's not some big winning play, Alucard does not have the tools to ever take advantage of it. Not as big as the gap in their power is. And no, Dio's BS Vampire body could easily outrun the sun.

EDIT And I totally forgot he could just have The World pick him up and leave with him.

As far as I can tell, Dio is at 'normal vampire' speeds. As in dodgeing bullets, moving faster than the eye can see, and the like, but never further than say, a kilometer in distance. All stuff that's well within Alucard's speed feats. Same with his strength. The power gap is entirely within his Stand.

As for the Stand carrying him, that could work I suppose. Is there a reason they don't travel by Stand in canon? I know they do it in fights.

There is never any indication he can move anywhere close to that fast. Is this DB pulling numbers out of their ass again? I never watch the videos.

Not really. The Stand might be at light speeds, but people here (not in the video) are saying that Dio can move at those speeds.

[Rynjin]

The only time anyone flies with a Stand (barring a specific Stand power) is the Dio/Jotaro fight and it's a bit vague whether they're actually doing that in the first place or just jumping good.

Best guesses are "Araki forgot" (always a safe guess), "it's a specific property of Star Platinum (and by extension The World)", or "they can't and never could".

[HolyDraconus]

As far as I can tell, Dio is at 'normal vampire' speeds. As in dodgeing bullets, moving faster than the eye can see, and the like, but never further than say, a kilometer in distance. All stuff that's well within Alucard's speed feats. Same with his strength. The power gap is entirely within his Stand.

As for the Stand carrying him, that could work I suppose. Is there a reason they don't travel by Stand in canon? I know they do it in fights.



Not really. The Stand might be at light speeds, but people here (not in the video) are saying that Dio can move at those speeds.

Blame Star Platinum for reasons why Dio is so fast and strong . SP was capable of keeping up with Silver Chariot, who is clocked several times faster than the speed of light. While The World and Star Platinum are the same Stand, Dio has fought, and matched, Star Platinum without resorting to his Stand. He has also tanked hits from SP, who hits harder than a Stand that bust meteors.

Alucard can’t beat Dio physically. Level 0 wouldn’t work cause Dio can output eye lasers that are more than enough to destroy the whole thing in a sweep.


So all that’s really left is if epilogue Alucard is allowed vs epilogue Dio. And Dracula loses THAT fight too, cause Dio can literally rewrite reality.

DB does some faulty matches but this one ain’t one of them. Alucard should of been paired of with someone else like Mercer.

[Rynjin]

I'm also very curious where that "Silver Chariot is several times faster than the speed of light" feat supposedly comes from, because that also sounds like bull****.

The Hanged Man fight I'm guessing, because hurr durr mirrors? A lot of people who never read the series think that.

The entire danger of that fight is that Silver Chariot is NOWHERE NEAR fast enough to catch Hanged Man (who does move at the speed of light, or very near it, supposedly) and has to rely on predicting and limiting its movements (by eliminating sources of reflection until only one is left) until it has no choice but to be somewhere at the exact time Silver Chariot attacks, killing it.

[Rater202]

So something else that Deathbattle kind of overlooked: While the "Ocean of Blood" isn't actually blood, Alucard is able to psychically control blood and pull it towards him and is able to absorb it through his skin.

And they say that DIO's eye beams aren't "energy" but pressurized fluids. What Death Battles doesn't say, but which is true in the source material, is that those fluids are DIO's blood.

Shooting it directly at Alucard would make him stronger by feeding him the blood of a powerful person, and by taking in blood when it's fresh Alucard absorbs the memories. One hit and Alucard would know all of Dio's strengths and weaknesses.

Shooting it at Alucard's familiars when they're individually zombies might work, but shooting them in the "aggregate mass" form would probably have no effect.

Also, to settle the argument, I went back and rewatched the scene of aLucard acivating level zero and slaughtering the Millenium soldiers and Papal Knights.

The aggregate form of Alucard's familiars is never referred to as blood. Integra makes mention that Alucard can do that because he drank the blood of so many people, but the onl think it's ever refered to is "a river of death."

It also, on a second viewing... Doesn't even look like blood. In the OVA at least it's glowing red and black substance full of eyes. It's the same "shadowy ethereal substance" that Alucard himself is made of. Not blood,not real blood anyway.

unless it's depicted as, or said to be, blood in the orignal manga Deathbattles is just flat out wrong on it.

[Rynjin]

And they say that DIO's eye beams aren't "energy" but pressurized fluids. What Death Battles doesn't say, but which is true in the source material, is that those fluids are DIO's blood.

I'm pretty sure in part 1 they're explicitly referred to as just being the vitreous humor in the eyes (the gel your eyes are made of).

[Rater202]

I'm pretty sure in part 1 they're explicitly referred to as just being the vitreous humor in the eyes (the gel your eyes are made of).

Every source I can find either says blood or just generic "fluid."

[Forum Explorer]

Blame Star Platinum for reasons why Dio is so fast and strong . SP was capable of keeping up with Silver Chariot, who is clocked several times faster than the speed of light. While The World and Star Platinum are the same Stand, Dio has fought, and matched, Star Platinum without resorting to his Stand. He has also tanked hits from SP, who hits harder than a Stand that bust meteors.

Alucard can’t beat Dio physically. Level 0 wouldn’t work cause Dio can output eye lasers that are more than enough to destroy the whole thing in a sweep.


So all that’s really left is if epilogue Alucard is allowed vs epilogue Dio. And Dracula loses THAT fight too, cause Dio can literally rewrite reality.

DB does some faulty matches but this one ain’t one of them. Alucard should of been paired of with someone else like Mercer.

I was aware that Dio had taken hits from Star Platinum (and regened from those hits. It cracked his skull open, that isn't tanking and ignoring the damage), but I didn't realize that he had actually fought back. Effectively anyways.

I do agree that Alucard can't beat Dio physically. It's all down to if Alucard can exploit Dio's weakness to sunlight. Dio shouldn't be able to kill Alucard fast enough (there is no reason to use level 0, that doesn't actually make Alucard stronger. That's more a trump card to attack an enemy army, not something that is all that effective against a single person) before the sun rises. In fact, I doubt Dio could wipe out Alucard's lives fast enough to be done in a week. There's only so many seconds in the day. Though time of year, and where they are fighting would mess with that.

So Alucard gets to learn of Dio's weakness since Dio disengaging to avoid the sunlight would be really obvious. And the way I see it, he has three ways to potentially exploit Dio's weakness.

1. Unleash level 0 to destroy all of the terrain Dio could be possibly hiding in. Basically level the entire city, drag every body above ground, and if you find Dio, literally dig him out. He might slaughter thousands of ghouls, but Alucard wouldn't actually have to fight Dio to win. Added bonus, it would also restock Alucard's lives and undo the progress Dio made in the night.

Dio might be able to avoid this by going far enough away though.

2. Fight Dio someplace where there is no terrain to hide behind. Like a cruise ship on the ocean for example. Or in the desert.

Problem with this, is Dio can just refuse to fight there. Which locks them into a stalemate. Or maybe Dio could fly away? That part is confusing cause people have definitely escaped from Dio before, and if he could travel at light speed, there is no way that should have happened.

3. Steal a nuke, and use it point blank as a 'suicide bomb'. The fusion from a fusion bomb isn't any different from the fusion in the sun. So logically, it's light should work on Dio the same way. Or have it dropped on him by one of his minions as a way to do it without Dio noticing.

Could Dio shield himself from this by covering himself in his Stand? The physical force, sure. But would the light go through and kill him anyways due to him being a vampire?


Now you can question if Alucard would actually be able to think of any of this. Which is debatable. I mean, Alucard isn't an idiot, and can read minds to boot. But at the same time, we don't really see him make any strategic decisions. He leaves that entirely in Integra's hands.

If Alucard only had a day or two to figure it out, I'd be inclined to say he couldn't. But he's likely got a week or longer to figure something out. (There are 86400 seconds in a day. That's 43200 seconds a night, assuming a perfectly even split between night and day. Even at a rate of a death per second it would still take over a week to get through 3.5 million lives. And that's assuming Alucard doesn't absorb any lives during the day, or the fight itself. And a kill per second is being generous. Dio is overly dramatic and will waste time. Not to mention time lost actually finding Alucard each night and getting to him.)

[Rater202]

So, not a directly related topic but a thought popped into my head... If Alucard got pierced by the Stand arrow, would he get just his own stand, or would he get a stand for each familiar that was capable of developing a stand themself?

[Rynjin]

So, not a directly related topic but a thought popped into my head... If Alucard got pierced by the Stand arrow, would he get just his own stand, or would he get a stand for each familiar that was capable of developing a stand themself?

Depends on whether you ascribe to the "that Hermit Purple thing Dio does once and never again is Jonathan's Stand" theory or not.

[HolyDraconus]

Another thing that people keep skipping is Dio’s Time Stop. Killing Alucard one at a time can still be done in an evening provided he can regen fast enough… but that doesn’t change the fact that Dio progressively gets better with it each time he uses it. Alucard doesn’t have a defense last I checked from being immobile for 9 seconds, then 10 seconds, then 11 seconds etc.

[Forum Explorer]

Another thing that people keep skipping is Dio’s Time Stop. Killing Alucard one at a time can still be done in an evening provided he can regen fast enough… but that doesn’t change the fact that Dio progressively gets better with it each time he uses it. Alucard doesn’t have a defense last I checked from being immobile for 9 seconds, then 10 seconds, then 11 seconds etc.

That doesn't help though. Part of how Alucard's regen works is you can't overkill him. No matter how much force you use, it still only kills him once. Stopping time just lets you concentrate a bunch of attacks into one moment. But if you only need one punch to kill him, that overkill doesn't do anything. I'd say all it does is tire Dio out, but I'm pretty sure he can't get worn down that way.

It's why Alucard could theoretically use a nuke as a suicide bomb and win the fight that way. The nuke would only kill Alucard once, even at point blank range.

[Rynjin]

Another thing that people keep skipping is Dio’s Time Stop. Killing Alucard one at a time can still be done in an evening provided he can regen fast enough… but that doesn’t change the fact that Dio progressively gets better with it each time he uses it. Alucard doesn’t have a defense last I checked from being immobile for 9 seconds, then 10 seconds, then 11 seconds etc.

In addition to what Forum Explorer said, there's also that nothing says Dio would be able to keep infinitely scaling his time stop to begin with, and we do know for a fact that at a certain point it'd just kill him from his heart exploding or whatever. Jotaro's maximum time stop is 5 seconds, because going any longer would kill him. It's unknown what Dio's max time stop is, but he would definitely have a max. It might BE 10 seconds for all we know.

[Dragonus45]

As far as I can tell, Dio is at 'normal vampire' speeds. As in dodgeing bullets, moving faster than the eye can see, and the like, but never further than say, a kilometer in distance. All stuff that's well within Alucard's speed feats. Same with his strength. The power gap is entirely within his Stand.

As for the Stand carrying him, that could work I suppose. Is there a reason they don't travel by Stand in canon? I know they do it in fights.



Not really. The Stand might be at light speeds, but people here (not in the video) are saying that Dio can move at those speeds.

Araki tends to be incosnistent about this but in Rohan Kishibe's novel someone does it and nothing ever says a person can't do it.

I'm also very curious where that "Silver Chariot is several times faster than the speed of light" feat supposedly comes from, because that also sounds like bull****.

The Hanged Man fight I'm guessing, because hurr durr mirrors? A lot of people who never read the series think that.

The entire danger of that fight is that Silver Chariot is NOWHERE NEAR fast enough to catch Hanged Man (who does move at the speed of light, or very near it, supposedly) and has to rely on predicting and limiting its movements (by eliminating sources of reflection until only one is left) until it has no choice but to be somewhere at the exact time Silver Chariot attacks, killing it.

So the general idea is the math is that he needs to be at least close to C to intercept it even if he did know where it was going to be. I guess it's a backdoor way of undoing the weird thing where they said explicitly being listed as able to go faster then the speed of light doesn't mean that Star Platinum can go faster then the speed of light.

In addition to what Forum Explorer said, there's also that nothing says Dio would be able to keep infinitely scaling his time stop to begin with, and we do know for a fact that at a certain point it'd just kill him from his heart exploding or whatever. Jotaro's maximum time stop is 5 seconds, because going any longer would kill him. It's unknown what Dio's max time stop is, but he would definitely have a max. It might BE 10 seconds for all we know.

True there does eventually need to be a cap, but a completed Dio is presumably immune to the heart problems Time Stop has since it's a superfluous organ he can just regrow anyways.

[Traab]

The time stop slaughter would work in a level 0 scenario better because then he has the 8 seconds or whatever his time limit may end up being to mercilessly burst every single one of alucards minions in range. Im not sure what the limits are on time stop, like cooldown wise. Can he go ZA WARUDO!!!!! then the instant it drops go ZA WARUDO!!! again so all alucard gets is a single stutter step in between his ocean of minions being torn apart with no time to react to any of it? But that aside, he would also use the time stop to just kill alucard at that point. Why waste time on minions when you can just time stop, run past them, then tear alucard apart into tiny fragments of whatever the heck he is made of with no souls left inside to regenerate from.

[Forum Explorer]

The time stop slaughter would work in a level 0 scenario better because then he has the 8 seconds or whatever his time limit may end up being to mercilessly burst every single one of alucards minions in range. Im not sure what the limits are on time stop, like cooldown wise. Can he go ZA WARUDO!!!!! then the instant it drops go ZA WARUDO!!! again so all alucard gets is a single stutter step in between his ocean of minions being torn apart with no time to react to any of it? But that aside, he would also use the time stop to just kill alucard at that point. Why waste time on minions when you can just time stop, run past them, then tear alucard apart into tiny fragments of whatever the heck he is made of with no souls left inside to regenerate from.

Level 0 would be an awful thing for Alucard to use in most scenarios. But there's no reason for Alucard to use it against Dio (barring some specific scenarios) as it is a technique to kill armies, but doesn't really help against single targets.

Araki tends to be incosnistent about this but in Rohan Kishibe's novel someone does it and nothing ever says a person can't do it.

Fair enough. It creates some massive problems with Jojo's canon, but like Sephiroth's Supernova feat, that's not really Death Battle's fault.

So that would mean the only way Alucard could win is by using a fusion bomb. Which is a bit of a maybe at that. He would need to realize that he can't catch up to Dio during the day, realize he needs an alternative, and then think of a nuclear bomb as an option. Finding them wouldn't be that big of a problem, Alucard knows high ranking military people, and he can just go kill them and absorb their memories. Ditto with using it.

Is it the sort of thing Alucard would actually do though?

Well maybe. He certainly has no compunctions about slaughtering humans en mass. He also uses modern technology all the time (his guns, flying the Blackbird). And he's smart enough to figure out what he needs to do to recover from eating Schrodinger, even with no knowledge of his powers beforehand, or what had happened to him. (Mind you, he probably got Schrodinger's memories when he ate him, but that's not explicit). But Alucard was always the top dog in every single fight we see in Hellsing. We never see him have to fight against a superior opponent and how he would behave in that situation.

Actually, here's a thought. How is Dio at resisting mind control? Could Alucard create an illusion or hypnotize him into losing track of time?


A thought occurs actually. Alucard gets the powers of those he eats. An alternative way for him to win is to eat someone with a stand, or who knows how to use Hamon. If you are doing a full crossover, then those people would exist in the world. Though what are the rules for the terrain. Usually that doesn't matter, or if it does, the assumption is that both opponents have access to all of their gear and resources.

Normally this sort of stuff doesn't matter. But I can't see a way for Dio to win quickly. It should take him at least a week, likely a lot longer as Alucard replenishes his stock of souls during the day. So now that we have downtime during the fight, it actually does raise the question of what can they do in that downtime.

On that note, what can Dio do to kill Alucard faster?

[HolyDraconus]

In addition to what Forum Explorer said, there's also that nothing says Dio would be able to keep infinitely scaling his time stop to begin with, and we do know for a fact that at a certain point it'd just kill him from his heart exploding or whatever. Jotaro's maximum time stop is 5 seconds, because going any longer would kill him. It's unknown what Dio's max time stop is, but he would definitely have a max. It might BE 10 seconds for all we know.

He doesn't have a cap. He was explicitly said to learn how to use it better each time, and said that given time he would have complete mastery over it. With no drawback.

[Forum Explorer]

He doesn't have a cap. He was explicitly said to learn how to use it better each time, and said that given time he would have complete mastery over it. With no drawback.

Then why is it only at 10 seconds? Does it reset each day when he stops fighting? He's had the power for years hasn't he?

[HolyDraconus]

Then why is it only at 10 seconds? Does it reset each day when he stops fighting? He's had the power for years hasn't he?

he was killed. Can't improve when you are dead.

[Dragonus45]

Yea, the cap he had before hand seemed to tied into his body being incomplete since he was just a vampire head on the body of someone else. Once he drained some blood from that person's descendants he got way stronger/fast and was able to time stop longer. Frankly if he had less ego he would have just won.

[Iamyourking]

Then why is it only at 10 seconds? Does it reset each day when he stops fighting? He's had the power for years hasn't he?

He had been free for five years, but I don't think he had The World for very long by the time Stardust Crusaders starts. When he pierced himself with the arrow to get it, all of Jonathan's living descendants got it as well; and Jotaro had only just developed Star Platinum when the season started. Admittedly there is some variance-Joseph seems to have had Hermit Purple for a little while by the time he arrived in Japan and Holly didn't start getting hers until several days after Jotaro despite being closer to Jonathan (When Josuke got his is mostly unknown, but probably some time later since Stardust Crusaders starts in late November and it's a plot point that him and his mother got stuck in deep snowfall).

[Traab]

Honestly, if I had an ability like time stop and I noticed it got better the more I used it, you better BELIEVE I would grind as hard as i could to improve it. Heck, depending on how evil i wanted to be I would grind it like crazy so its incredible, then never use that improved level so my opponents might think they found a weakness or a limit to my strength. Its always more fun to let your opponent feel hope only to tear it away from him, along with a limb or two. But seriously, can someone answer my question? is there a cooldown on his time stop? Or can he instantly recast it as the cheapest most broken technique on earth?

[Devonix]

Gotta say they really dropped the ball on this one. Especially because of Dio's durability. End of the day Dio doesn't really have high defenses, and is more focused on avoiding damage and healing what does happen. Things, like bullets and bombs can and do hurt him, Sufficient damage to the brain will outright kill him, And he'll need a sufficient infusion of blood to survive and regenerate.

Without enough blood on hand Dio's regeneration flat out doesn't work.

[Dragonus45]

Gotta say they really dropped the ball on this one. Especially because of Dio's durability. End of the day Dio doesn't really have high defenses, and is more focused on avoiding damage and healing what does happen. Things, like bullets and bombs can and do hurt him, Sufficient damage to the brain will outright kill him, And he'll need a sufficient infusion of blood to survive and regenerate.

Without enough blood on hand Dio's regeneration flat out doesn't work.

They do cover that though, he is strong/fast enough that Alucard would really struggle to hit him and Alucard is a bucket of infinite blood he can drink for great healing.

[hungrycrow]

Honestly, if I had an ability like time stop and I noticed it got better the more I used it, you better BELIEVE I would grind as hard as i could to improve it. Heck, depending on how evil i wanted to be I would grind it like crazy so its incredible, then never use that improved level so my opponents might think they found a weakness or a limit to my strength. Its always more fun to let your opponent feel hope only to tear it away from him, along with a limb or two. But seriously, can someone answer my question? is there a cooldown on his time stop? Or can he instantly recast it as the cheapest most broken technique on earth?

Dio uses the World multiple times in succession when Polnareff is trying to ascend some stairs, so the cooldown is only a few seconds at most. The cooldown can't be instant, because Dio wouldn't be so obsessed with achieving a longer time stop if that were the case. Unfortunately I don't think Araki ever gave a specific answer though.

[Rater202]

They do cover that though, he is strong/fast enough that Alucard would really struggle to hit him and Alucard is a bucket of infinite blood he can drink for great healing.

So to repeat myself: I went back and actually watched the relevant scenes.

It's not blood. It's never referred to as blood.

It's the same "shadowy ethereal substance" that Alucard is made of.

Dio wouldn't be able to drink it.

[Forum Explorer]

So to repeat myself: I went back and actually watched the relevant scenes.

It's not blood. It's never referred to as blood.

It's the same "shadowy ethereal substance" that Alucard is made of.

Dio wouldn't be able to drink it.

He has blood though. Dio should be able to drink that.

Well maybe. Alucard can control his blood, so can Dio drink it harder than Alucard can move it?

[Rater202]

He has blood though. Dio should be able to drink that.

Well maybe. Alucard can control his blood, so can Dio drink it harder than Alucard can move it?

I mean, tha'ts just more shadoy ethereal substance shapeshifted totake the form of blood.

And even if it is blood, I've already explained why taking in Vampire Bio-Matter is a bad idea: All of Millenium's vampires are created by grafting them with traces of flesh from Mina Murrey, who was bitten but not fully turned by Dracula(IE, Alucard.)

And Dracula was in Mina's head, a psychic connection, after biting and infecting her.

It is thus reasonable to believe that if Dio ingested Alucard's blood, Alucard would be in Dio's head.

[Dragonus45]

So to repeat myself: I went back and actually watched the relevant scenes.

It's not blood. It's never referred to as blood.

It's the same "shadowy ethereal substance" that Alucard is made of.

Dio wouldn't be able to drink it.

So now you are saying Alucard literally doesn't bleed, despite the gallons of blood that go flying around when he gets hit by attacks?