DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

[Rater202]

Considering that one of the arguments that was made is that Shadow is literally fast enough to be in two places at one time and can meet the "scissor" mechanic, regardless of there being zero evidence of any other research done besides "this works, lets use it", as well as canonically KNOWS about her and should be smart enough to use that knowledge, and you keep ignoring it with the equivalent of "nuh huh!", Anteros is spot on.

In order: Okay, Shadow can be in two places at once.



Ignore the title of the video, it's wrong.

Note how Ragyo was still alive after this. That's important, becuase shortly after this she regenerated in full.

Shadow being in two places at one... Wouldn't be enough.

There's zero margin for error here. If you are not Perfectly symmetrical and Perfectly simultaneous, the attack won't do anything.

Now keep in mind that Ryuko's regen is stronger than Ragyo's.

Shadow being in two places at once doesn't... Give him any meaningful advantage. Certainly not enough to not need to use a giant pair of scissors to kill her.

As for Isshin...

Isshin, under his original identity, was Ragyo's husband. He stood right by her side while she was doing her own research on the capabilities of life fibers.

He then spent an additional 17 years on his own researching how to kill them.

Why would you assume that he was wrong? The anime presents him as having been correct. If you're going to ignore what the original source material says then there's literally no point in having this conversation.

[Forum Explorer]

In order: Okay, Shadow can be in two places at once.



Ignore the title of the video, it's wrong.

Note how Ragyo was still alive after this. That's important, becuase shortly after this she regenerated in full.

Shadow being in two places at one... Wouldn't be enough.

There's zero margin for error here. If you are not Perfectly symmetrical and Perfectly simultaneous, the attack won't do anything.

Now keep in mind that Ryuko's regen is stronger than Ragyo's.

Shadow being in two places at once doesn't... Give him any meaningful advantage. Certainly not enough to not need to use a giant pair of scissors to kill her.

As for Isshin...

Isshin, under his original identity, was Ragyo's husband. He stood right by her side while she was doing her own research on the capabilities of life fibers.

He then spent an additional 17 years on his own researching how to kill them.

Why would you assume that he was wrong? The anime presents him as having been correct. If you're going to ignore what the original source material says then there's literally no point in having this conversation.

That's what happens when you actually do it correctly. Ragyo was split into several pieces and didn't just automatically regenerate. She had to actually push herself together. Because doing it correctly doesn't shut down the regeneration, it just takes it off automatic.

But yeah, DB completely robbed Ryuko there. They didn't even bring up the fact that Ryuko could be literally split in half, and act like nothing happened. Instead they mention she can run out of blood, a weakness she overcame like ten episodes ago.

Not to mention Shadow can't move parts of the planet. Neither can Sonic. That was some super beast inside the planet that was being sealed away the Chaos Emeralds being placed in very specific temples designed to channel the Chaos Emeralds to do that exact thing. Shadow is not that strong and none of his other feats even come close to that.

[Delicious Taffy]

Is it too early to recommend the next thread title?
DEATH BATTLE 9 - Shadow's Simultaneous Scissors

[McNum]

Is it too early to recommend the next thread title?
DEATH BATTLE 9 - Shadow's Simultaneous Scissors

That one might be a little too specific, even if it does cover at least the plurality of posts in this particular thread. (As in more posts about this specific topic than any other single topic.)

I do like the idea of rebooting the thread next season, though. We know the DEATH BATTLE threads get awfully quiet between seasons. Unless we pull up some old discussion, but even Superman vs. Goku ran out of steam eventually. So coming up with a Season 9 thread title might be good around the season finale.

Do we have an idea on who that would be? I think I heard a rumor that Galactus vs. Unicron is an upcoming fight, but I can't remember where I got that.

[Iamyourking]

It's all but confirmed to be Galactus vs. Unicron. Back in July I said I'd heard rumors of it and Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man, so once one of those rumors was confirmed the other became a virtual certainty.

[Talakeal]

It's all but confirmed to be Galactus vs. Unicron. Back in July I said I'd heard rumors of it and Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man, so once one of those rumors was confirmed the other became a virtual certainty.

Squeee.

I have been asking for that one since Day 1.

[Seppl]

It's all but confirmed to be Galactus vs. Unicron. Back in July I said I'd heard rumors of it and Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man, so once one of those rumors was confirmed the other became a virtual certainty.

Squeee.

I have been asking for that one since Day 1.

At first I thought that matchup sounded a lot like yet another Flash vs. Quicksilver scenario, but reading up on Unicron: That guy has had some serious power creep since the days of "just" being a planet size transformer . Might even easily surpass the craziness that is 50+ years of Marvel canon that Galactus has going for him. I guess in the end it will once again come down to something like measuring the size of the Marvel universe vs. Transformers universe, which is always just silly.

[TeChameleon]

Quick check of the tfwiki and... uh... huh.

It sounds like Unicron was at one point a unique, multiversal-level threat, but now he... just kind of isn't anymore? It's all rather confusing, really. It really depends on if they go with the 'only one in all reality, wants to eat the multiverse' version, or one of the... splinter ones, I guess..? that are running around the various Transformer franchises.

Then again, Galactus is kind of an oddity as well as far as being multiversal or not... there are alternate universe versions of him, but at the same time, the 'main' Galactus wanders all over the multiverse every so often.

EDIT- it's too bad that they probably won't do anything with 'all beings see Galactus as something roughly approximating a huge version of their own species'- Transformer Galactus could be epic.

... or he might just look like purple Unicron

[Anteros]

Nobody changes their mind, and in the end everyone involved gets too invested in it and upset while everyone else has to scroll through three pages of spoilered dbz posts.

What? That isn't true at all!

The dbz posts usually aren't spoilered....

[Prime32]

Quick check of the tfwiki and... uh... huh.

It sounds like Unicron was at one point a unique, multiversal-level threat, but now he... just kind of isn't anymore? It's all rather confusing, really.

IIRC at one point the franchise introduced a group of 13 Original Transformers who were all Multiversal Singularities^TM of the same type as Unicron, but they left some slots open to be fleshed out later. Multiple writers took them up on this... except they fleshed them out differently. So now it's 100% canon that Optimus Prime has always been one of the Original Transformers in every Transformers story, and it's also 100% canon that he's never been one of the Original Transformers in any Transformers story.

Eventually the whole concept became such a colossal mess that they dropped it entirely, handwaved by a comic where someone "strengthened the dimensional barriers".

In franchises with as much power creep as this, sometimes it's like writers forget that they can't actually give their characters control over real life.

[Dragonus45]

I just wonder how many times you're going to repeat this argument. You've already seen the counter argument like 12 times from multiple people. At this point it's probably time to accept we won't be convincing each other.

I’m assuming they are waiting for an actually workable counter argument, otherwise they might just go in keeping being both loud and right till the sun goes out.

[Rater202]

I’m assuming they are waiting for an actually workable counter argument, otherwise they might just go in keeping being both loud and right till the sun goes out.

I am waiting for a counterargument that doesn't require 1: outright ignoring the orignal source material or 2: Assuming that a scientist who spent decades first studying the capabilities of the Life Fibers and then how to destroy them was arbitrarily wrong about how to kill life fibers for no adequate reason.

[Anteros]

Here we go again.

As has been pointed out to you dozens of times, Shadow is more than fast enough to cut from multiple angles simultaneously, is fully capable of cutting her, and is fully aware of her weakness. The scissors aren't even the only things in the show itself capable of hurting her, and even if we want to arbitrarily decide that Shadow needs them, he's more than capable of disengaging from the fight and going to get what he needs to finish it. She can't stop him. Honestly, if we're taking Ryuko at her peak, she should just have the scissors on her. He can just take them. Otherwise, he can just go to tokyo and get them out of the bay. Not that he even needs them.

More to the point...it's not that you disagree. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. It's that you keep pretending your opinions are some sort of objective fact despite the fact that you know multiple people on the thread disagree with you. It's not just this topic. It's Goku, it's Carnage, it's itsybitsy. Whenever someone disagrees with you or provides a counter argument you basically just go "nuh uh" and pretend their argument has no merit. Just repeating the same things over and over as if they're objective truth when you already know your audience doesn't agree isn't productive to any sort of conversation.

[Rynjin]

I will say the repeated discussions of Shadow v Ryuko has done something productive for me: it's made me cross Kill la Kill off my backlog of anime to watch, because I never want to hear anything about it again or risk having to have a conversation with one of its fans about it.

[Rater202]

Shadow can be in multiple places at once, but as I said that in and of itself isn't enough: There is zero margins for error, and even if you do it perfectly it's not guaranteed to kill her. Assuming that being in two places at once by running really fast counts as "simultaneous" for the purposes of Life Fiber regeneration, because again, zero margin for error.

I don't have a clip for this one, but Ragyo cut Ryuko in half at the waste and it didn't take becuase Ragyo's angle was off by a tiny imperceptible amount

Furthermore, the only things that have injured her at her full power are things on the same level, or greater, than the scissors—at one point Nui attacks her with both of the scissors, some kind of energy attack application of them, and Ryuko deflects it when she was trying to block with just one hand.

you're right, it doesn't need to be the scissors. But it still needs to be two perfectly simultaneous clean slices striking through the same point from two symmetrical angles

Furthermore: As Forum Explorer Pointed out, DB's calculations of Shadow's Strength are vastly overinflated due to their outright misrepresenting the events of one of the games. Shadow as presented honestly doesn't have the necessary brute force to inflict physical harm on End of Series Ryuko wearing End of Series Senketsu.

the one weakness of Ryuko's that Death Battle Cites(her only weakness, other than her temper) is the one that she explicitly overcame not even halfway through the series and even if she hadn't is one that she would have reasonable been assumed to have overcome when her regeneration evolved to the point that ripping off most of her of her own skin became the equivalent of pulling out a splinter.

Furthermore, you can't take any injuries she takes early in the series as evidence of her being able to get injured because she demonstably becomes harder to injure over time as she grows more powerful.

I stand by my original position when they first announced the fight: Shadow is more powerful, but Ryuko wins regardless becuase he's not capable of inflicting an injury that Ryuko wouldn't regenerate from. He could try just trying to brute force past her regeneration, but Ragyo tried that and it didn't work.

Look at it from my perspective: I am citing facts straight from the source material, and you all are acting like I'm holding up an action figure and saying "nu-uh, mine's win becuase she's cooler."

[HolyDraconus]

Spoiler: Length… Le sigh…

Show

.

as well as canonically KNOWS about her and should be smart enough to use that knowledge, and you keep ignoring it with the equivalent of "nuh huh!", Anteros is spot on.

I am waiting for a counterargument that doesn't require 1: outright ignoring the orignal source material or 2: Assuming that a scientist who spent decades first studying the capabilities of the Life Fibers and then how to destroy them was arbitrarily wrong about how to kill life fibers for no adequate reason.

Here we go again.

More to the point...it's not that you disagree. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. It's that you keep pretending your opinions are some sort of objective fact despite the fact that you know multiple people on the thread disagree with you. It's not just this topic. It's Goku, it's Carnage, it's itsybitsy. Whenever someone disagrees with you or provides a counter argument you basically just go "nuh uh" and pretend their argument has no merit. Just repeating the same things over and over as if they're objective truth when you already know your audience doesn't agree isn't productive to any sort of conversation.

Shadow can be in multiple places at once, but as I said that in and of itself isn't enough:

At this point, you ARE holding up an action figure and saying “Nuh huh”.

[Keltest]

Shadow can be in multiple places at once, but as I said that in and of itself isn't enough: There is zero margins for error, and even if you do it perfectly it's not guaranteed to kill her. Assuming that being in two places at once by running really fast counts as "simultaneous" for the purposes of Life Fiber regeneration, because again, zero margin for error.

I don't have a clip for this one, but Ragyo cut Ryuko in half at the waste and it didn't take becuase Ragyo's angle was off by a tiny imperceptible amount

Furthermore, the only things that have injured her at her full power are things on the same level, or greater, than the scissors—at one point Nui attacks her with both of the scissors, some kind of energy attack application of them, and Ryuko deflects it when she was trying to block with just one hand.

you're right, it doesn't need to be the scissors. But it still needs to be two perfectly simultaneous clean slices striking through the same point from two symmetrical angles

Furthermore: As Forum Explorer Pointed out, DB's calculations of Shadow's Strength are vastly overinflated due to their outright misrepresenting the events of one of the games. Shadow as presented honestly doesn't have the necessary brute force to inflict physical harm on End of Series Ryuko wearing End of Series Senketsu.

the one weakness of Ryuko's that Death Battle Cites(her only weakness, other than her temper) is the one that she explicitly overcame not even halfway through the series and even if she hadn't is one that she would have reasonable been assumed to have overcome when her regeneration evolved to the point that ripping off most of her of her own skin became the equivalent of pulling out a splinter.

Furthermore, you can't take any injuries she takes early in the series as evidence of her being able to get injured because she demonstably becomes harder to injure over time as she grows more powerful.

I stand by my original position when they first announced the fight: Shadow is more powerful, but Ryuko wins regardless becuase he's not capable of inflicting an injury that Ryuko wouldn't regenerate from. He could try just trying to brute force past her regeneration, but Ragyo tried that and it didn't work.

Look at it from my perspective: I am citing facts straight from the source material, and you all are acting like I'm holding up an action figure and saying "nu-uh, mine's win becuase she's cooler."

Rater, plenty of us are trying to operate within those facts as presented, but you just keep insisting that "brute force cant ever work because it didnt work once" and similar such arguments.

Youve described the specific steps necessary to create an injury she cant heal from. We have described how Shadow can meet those conditions. Your followup is typically to refute that Shadow has actually met those conditions by restating them. Theres nowhere to go here when you just repeat your premise. You need to explain WHY Shadow cant meet the conditions in the way we have described.

Also, obligatory pointing out that a pair of scissors actually physically cant meet the conditions necessary as you have described them because the two blades are slightly offset from each other to allow the scissors to close.

[HolyDraconus]

Rater, plenty of us are trying to operate within those facts as presented, but you just keep insisting that "brute force cant ever work because it didnt work once" and similar such arguments.

Youve described the specific steps necessary to create an injury she cant heal from. We have described how Shadow can meet those conditions. Your followup is typically to refute that Shadow has actually met those conditions by restating them. Theres nowhere to go here when you just repeat your premise. You need to explain WHY Shadow cant meet the conditions in the way we have described.

Also, obligatory pointing out that a pair of scissors actually physically cant meet the conditions necessary as you have described them because the two blades are slightly offset from each other to allow the scissors to close.

I want to give you cookies so BADLY.

Thank you. Seriously.

[Rater202]

Rater, plenty of us are trying to operate within those facts as presented, but you just keep insisting that "brute force cant ever work because it didnt work once" and similar such arguments.

Youve described the specific steps necessary to create an injury she cant heal from. We have described how Shadow can meet those conditions. Your followup is typically to refute that Shadow has actually met those conditions by restating them. Theres nowhere to go here when you just repeat your premise. You need to explain WHY Shadow cant meet the conditions in the way we have described.

Also, obligatory pointing out that a pair of scissors actually physically cant meet the conditions necessary as you have described them because the two blades are slightly offset from each other to allow the scissors to close.

I explain the steps more than once... Becuase someone explains how Shadow could follow them.. In ways that don't actually follow them. I posted the clip of Ragyo being her head split in half and her body cut into chunks and it not working. Shadow doing it by running fast enough to be in two places at once won't make it any more effective on Ryuko than it was on Ragyo. If you don't do it perfectly it won't work. If you do it perfectly and it's not enough to actually kill her, it still won't work.

I think it's very important to note that, in the orignal source material: Ryuko never kills Nui or Ragyo. They both killed themselves.

Edit: And For the Record, I didn't list the steps for injuries she can't heal from. There are no injuries she can't heal from.

I listed injuries that she can't automatically heal from. She'd still regenerate instantly if she pushed the pieces back together.

[Keltest]

I explain the steps more than once... Becuase someone explains how Shadow could follow them.. In ways that don't actually follow them. I posted the clip of Ragyo being her head split in half and her body cut into chunks and it not working. Shadow doing it by running fast enough to be in two places at once won't make it any more effective on Ryuko than it was on Ragyo. If you don't do it perfectly it won't work. If you do it perfectly and it's not enough to actually kill her, it still won't work.

I think it's very important to note that, in the orignal source material: Ryuko never kills Nui or Ragyo. They both killed themselves.

Ok, see, here. Chaos control selectively stops time. It isnt "shadow running fast enough" it is literally, physically that he is in multiple places at once. So clearly we arent as on the same page as you think we are.

But most importantly here, clips of such and such action not working arent useful refutations. They just did it wrong. That says nothing about Shadow's ability to do it right. Youre literally trying to prove a negative with them, it cant be done.

Edit for your edit: Ok, so shadow takes half of her and runs. Thats not really a meaningful obstacle.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Also, since Shadow already knows her weakness (having watched the show himself), there's really nothing she can do to stop him from just stealing her scissors and killing her with them.

[Rynjin]

Indeed, I think it's worth remembering that there are conditions/stipulations for Death Battle specifically made for the truly immortal, regenerators, and the like.

If a character can be incapacitated indefinitely, that counts as a win even though they haven't been "killed". Similar to how Hidan is finally beaten in Naruto. He can't be killed by any means, but if you blow him into 50,000 separate chunks and bury him in a hole 50 feet deep there's nothing he can do about it.

[Rater202]

Ok, see, here. Chaos control selectively stops time. It isnt "shadow running fast enough" it is literally, physically that he is in multiple places at once. So clearly we arent as on the same page as you think we are.

Further up thread,HolyDraconus made the argument that Shadow could run fast enough to be in two places at once. I was refuting that claim as being insufficient.

If you're arguing that Shadow uses Chaos Control to Freeze Ryuko and make a simultaneous cut then that's a different argument that I have to different counter-arguments for.

It really comes down to how chaos control works: Does Shadow literally freeze time, or does he simply manipulate time-space in such a way that he is moving so fast that time appears to be stopped from his perspective?

1: If Time is literally frozen, then Ryuko's body will not react to the force Shadow Even if a shadow has a blade capable of inflicting the necessary injuries, even if he is also using Chaos Control to be in two places at once beyond this, the blade itself will not pass through her body, only the force it exerts on her, he's essentially just tapping her really hard and hoping that that tap by itself will convey enough force to make the necessary cuts

2: If time is effectively frozen, then Ryuko's body will still react as Shadow inflicts the injuries... But it won't actually be simultaneous so she'll just pull back together as soon as she's unfrozen, unless Shadow duplicates himself but even then that's not a garruntee that it'll work. Even if it does... She can easily reattach her body parts.

We don't actually know what a fatal wound for a life fiber hybrid is other than "decapitate themself in a way they won't automatically regenerate from and then immediately allow themselves to be absorbed by another Life-Fiber organism" or "voluntarily scatter their own life fibers," and we're told that Ryuko is a stronger hybrid than they were so even those might not work for Ryuko.

Also, since Shadow already knows her weakness (having watched the show himself), there's really nothing she can do to stop him from just stealing her scissors and killing her with them.

I know that I need to stab a vampire through the heart with a wooden ake to kill one.

That doesn't mean that I can physically kill one.

[Rynjin]

1: If Time is literally frozen, then Ryuko's body will not react to the force Shadow Even if a shadow has a blade capable of inflicting the necessary injuries, even if he is also using Chaos Control to be in two places at once beyond this, the blade itself will not pass through her body, only the force it exerts on her, he's essentially just tapping her really hard and hoping that that tap by itself will convey enough force to make the necessary cuts

As you've been told before nothing about this refutation makes any sense.

Just admit that you refuse to believe anything could ever beat your darling favoritest character and move on, you're giving everyone else a headache.

[Rater202]

As you've been told before nothing about this refutation makes any sense.

Just admit that you refuse to believe anything could ever beat your darling favoritest character and move on, you're giving everyone else a headache.

If something is frozen in time... It's frozen in time. Nothing done by anything not frozen in time can effect it. It is physically incapable of reacting in any way. Push it, it won't have any give. And you need give to be able to cut something.

Shadow could exert force on a frozen figure, but the figure won't react until it is no longer frozen, if at all. And even then, only to the force, not to what exerted the force.

I honestly do not understand why this doesn't make sense to you.

So if Shadow is demonstrated to be able to affect frozen objects... Then the objects aren't literally frozen, only effectively frozen.

[Forum Explorer]

Here we go again.

As has been pointed out to you dozens of times, Shadow is more than fast enough to cut from multiple angles simultaneously, is fully capable of cutting her, and is fully aware of her weakness. The scissors aren't even the only things in the show itself capable of hurting her, and even if we want to arbitrarily decide that Shadow needs them, he's more than capable of disengaging from the fight and going to get what he needs to finish it. She can't stop him. Honestly, if we're taking Ryuko at her peak, she should just have the scissors on her. He can just take them. Otherwise, he can just go to tokyo and get them out of the bay. Not that he even needs them.

Even granting Shadow the ability to stop the automatic regeneration, I doubt his ability to actually hold onto Ryuko. Because outside of Super Shadow, I'm pretty sure he lacks the power to hurt Ryuko. Because Ryuko explicitly scales to Raygo, and beyond, and she can do things like form limbs out of fabric. So even if Shadow cut her in half, and ran away with half of her body, she'd be able to form a new body out of cloth, and chase after him to retrieve it.

Because in the show, they did that perfect cut. From both sides, and everything, they cut Raygo into four pieces and it barely slowed her down. Regeneration canceling and all. Raygo only died because she killed herself and the sheer stupidity of Ryuko yelling at clothes to stop eating people and that working.

Rater's whole 'the Threads can warp reality' thing isn't entirely false. Kill La Kill lets all of its characters just do stuff. Ryuko is a lot closer to a Loony Toons character than a normal anime. Except instead of only being able to do stuff when it is funny, she can only do it when it is cool/dramatic.

[Rynjin]

If something is frozen in time... It's frozen in time. Nothing done by anything not frozen in time can effect it. It is physically incapable of reacting in any way. Push it, it won't have any give. And you need give to be able to cut something.

Shadow could exert force on a frozen figure, but the figure won't react until it is no longer frozen, if at all. And even then, only to the force, not to what exerted the force.

I honestly do not understand why this doesn't make sense to you.

So if Shadow is demonstrated to be able to affect frozen objects... Then the objects aren't literally frozen, only effectively frozen.

The problem is that you are picking and choosing when something operates on "normal physics" or not.

Either Shadow has true timestopping powers as depicted in media (time is stopped, but the stopper can affect anything stopped as normal) and Ryuko ****ing dies because he can overcome her "conceptual weakness" of being cut simultaneously on both sides by...doing so.

OR

Shadow has "realistic" timestop powers and can exert force than is then felt simultaneously once the timestop ends and her "conceptual" powers do not at all matter because she is now working on normal physics and the force is exerted simultaneously even if the object is not literally passing through her.

That is what is so baffling about your argument, and why people keep getting angry at you. Your arguments are so transparently, ludicrously biased that it is impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion, and you are so emotionally invested in the outcome that we can't even have a FUN discussion, which is what this is supposed to be, because you bring it up at every single opportunity to turn the conversation back to it no matter what anyone else is discussing.

In the end, the argument doesn't really matter because you taking this so seriously, and being so stubborn about it makes it hard for anyone to take you seriously on this topic even if you were completely correct about it.

It would probably be best for all involved if you simply...stopped bringing up the topic. Please.

[Rater202]

Rater's whole 'the Threads can warp reality' thing isn't entirely false. Kill La Kill lets all of its characters just do stuff. Ryuko is a lot closer to a Loony Toons character than a normal anime. Except instead of only being able to do stuff when it is funny, she can only do it when it is cool/dramatic.

I mean, yeah, everyone can do it to some extent... But things like Ryuko brute-forcing reality into doing what he wants of Nui compressing herself down to two dimensions of fitting in spaces physically too small to hold her are presented as being weird in-universe, and we're explicitly told that Life Fibers operate on a complicity different set of physics than naytinh on earth.

So even by in-universe standards, they're bending reality.

@Ryujin.

Deathbattles makes a lot of questionable calls and occasionally outright errors. Ryuko vs Shadow is a perfect example of several of them—they flat out ignore the nigh absolute nature of Ryuko's healing factor and her shear durability in general while misrepresenting things from the sonic series to justify giving Shadow a vastly overinflated power level.

In a thread for discussing Deathbattles, why shouldn't I bring up a perfect example of its flaws?

I mean, the flawed videos are the only ones anyone talks about after the fact. You don't see us having pages and pages of discussion about how they got All Might and Might Guy perfectly right and that's actually how an interation betweent he two might end up if nothing stops them from getting too enthusiastic in a competition, do you?

[Vahnavoi]

Ah, they're finally doing Madara versus Aizen? They somehow didn't do this years ago? Okay.

Madara should have this in the bag.

Remember when Aizen cast his most poweful destructive spell, the Black Coffin, against Ichigo, in their ultimate fight? What did he brag about? He bragged about his Kido being strong enough to warp gravity.

You know what also gives explicit ability to control gravity? The Rinnegan does. We have direct apples-to-apples comparison in raw power here, and Madara wins by virtue of casually throwing meteors around. Rinnegan also gives abilities to see into the spirit world and steal souls, so Madara ought to have zero problems sensing and interacting with Aizen.

There is exactly one feat, from the very end of Bleach, which you could raise in Aizen's favor: Aizen was capable of using his Absolute Hypnosis on Yhwach. By Aizen's own statements, this should only have been possible, if his own spiritual power is within spitting distance of Yhwach. But, and this is a really important but: the only source we have for things working this way is Aizen himself, and Aizen has been shown to be wrong about things, so. Given literally everything else about that fight, Aizen's not in the same weight class as Yhwach.

Aizen does explicitly grow stronger during his captivity between arcs, but by how much, is pure guesswork. He does not, for example, fight Ichigo again, so we can't even tell in any measured way if he's weaker or stronger than Ichigo by end of the series. "Now hold on", you say, "didn't Ichigo kill Yhwach?" No. Ichigo along with Aizen, Ishida and Renji killed Yhwach, with prior support from Tsukishima and Orihime. The argument for Ichigo being as strong as or stronger than Yhwach is the same as for Aizen being within spitting distance of Yhwach: based on dubious in-character statements that Ichigo must've been that strong to make the killing blow, he's that strong.

[Anteros]

If something is frozen in time... It's frozen in time. Nothing done by anything not frozen in time can effect it. It is physically incapable of reacting in any way. Push it, it won't have any give. And you need give to be able to cut something.

Shadow could exert force on a frozen figure, but the figure won't react until it is no longer frozen, if at all. And even then, only to the force, not to what exerted the force.

I honestly do not understand why this doesn't make sense to you.

So if Shadow is demonstrated to be able to affect frozen objects... Then the objects aren't literally frozen, only effectively frozen.

I'm just quoting this because it's so incredibly biased that I want to draw attention back to it. "Nuh uh guys...that character's powers don't work that way. It wouldn't be realistic. So anyway, the character I like is immortal and can do anything they want! Realism? Suspend your disbelief bro. She can do it in the show."