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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    Yeah, you can't cut life fibers that way and Ryuko has taken massive blasts before. Also they didn't even bring up the fact that if Ryuko survived Super Shadow, than Shadow wouldn't be able to survive her blows. Basically, can Shadow kill Ryuko in 60 seconds?

    Oh, and they mentioned the blood timer thing, but that stopped being a thing in the second half of Kill la Kill. Basically right after Ryuko's life fiber abilities activated. Before that, her body acted as if it was human.

    The definitely gave Shadow some massive buffs though by giving him the force to put a planet back together. That was certainly new.
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    from what was demonstrated, you can, its just widely accepted that the one doing the cutting isnt doing it fast enough to outpace the regeneration. Shadow is so far beyond her speed that it really shouldn't of been a question of if he could speed blitz paste her. And as I said in this thread, a LOT of Shadow's feats was done with his limiters on, including the ones when he went super. Him without limits in super is something never seen, but if he can tank the collapse of a reality with limits..

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    There is talk of new feats, of which I have no knowledge, but Lex Luthor did lose to Iron Man last time.

    So, "scales to Superman" isn't massively indicative of auto-win, I guess. Also, Doom is somewhat comparable to Iron Man -- even being Iron Man not too long ago.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Hmm. Doom vs. Luthor is an interesting one.

    Both have reality-warper-level feats, although I'm pretty sure that in both cases, they had outside buffs.

    I'd probably give Lex the edge in terms of sheer brainpower- the dude is the supergenius' supergenius. Doom, on the other hand... his trump isn't his intelligence (which is admittedly insane, even by comic book standards)... but rather his raw will. Once Doom has set his mind to something, it seems like the only thing that can seriously stop him is him changing his mind. And occasionally RICHAAAAAAARDS!!! of course. He's flat-out ignored Killgrave's control from point-blank range, continued his single-minded pursuit of his goal while in the middle of being ripped apart atom by atom by the Beyonder, choked out a lion with his bare hands while stark naked, and so forth.

    Doom also has his robot armies of various sorts. I don't know of Lex having anything equivalent to that, unless they allow him parademons from his time ruling Apokolips or something.

    Tough call- my instinct says 'Doom', but Lex is definitely still a contender.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
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    from what was demonstrated, you can, its just widely accepted that the one doing the cutting isnt doing it fast enough to outpace the regeneration. Shadow is so far beyond her speed that it really shouldn't of been a question of if he could speed blitz paste her. And as I said in this thread, a LOT of Shadow's feats was done with his limiters on, including the ones when he went super. Him without limits in super is something never seen, but if he can tank the collapse of a reality with limits..
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    Considering they didn't even mention how it worked, I'm not inclined to think they presented the info correctly. They also didn't go over the sheer stupidity of Raygo still managing to speak and talk after having her head cut down the middle. Her regeneration isn't based off being faster than what is damaging her, it still happens like normal regeneration, IE, getting cut up, and healing after you've been cut up. It just doesn't happen automatically if you cut both side simultaneously

    I'll grant that complete eradication of Ryuko would work, but that's at planet busting levels, which before this episode I didn't think Shadow had. Mind you, I'm still not 100% that Shadow does have that. The moving pieces of the planet feat is not nearly as impressive as it sounds, because the planet wants to do that anyways. It wants to fall back together due to gravity. It only isn't do so in this specific scenario because of some sealed monster Eggman unleashed. Using the Chaos Emeralds is just restoring that seal, it has nothing to do with power at all. Also their math was wrong because they didn't subtract the Outer core's mass as well as the inner core.

    So to calculate it, they should be calculating the force of gravity the planet is exerting on itself and subtracting that from the force Shadow needs to move the planet in the first place.

    EDIT: Looked into the planet moving feat, I'm really not inclined to give it to Shadow. For starters, Sonic wasn't the one to do that either. It was putting the Chaos Emerald in a specialized Temple that allowed it to happen and that Temple was needed to charge the gem in the first place. And it metaphorically 'heals' the planet by doing so, so you could argue the pieces aren't being moved by force either.

    Oh and from the same game, Sonic with all 7 Gems, was only able to blind the monster that tore the Earth apart in the first place.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

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    Once again, I'm not convinced they were wrong with the result here. I just think they picked the worst possible way to go about it. Once they decided they tweet confirming Kill la Kill was shadow's favorite anime was canon, which considering it was from the official twitter in an "ask a character a question" context I think is a fair assessment, then it was already over. Just say he uses that knowledge and his super speed to end her and move on. Instead they start playing 4d chess against themselves trying to justify this brute force approach that arguably doesn't work and only shows off how ignorant they were of the finer details of both series.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Doom blurb is up. Only interesting part is THEY TEASED ALUCARD!
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Doom blurb is up. Only interesting part is THEY TEASED ALUCARD!
    Yeah, but which Alucard? If it's the Castlevaina one, that isn't really anything too special.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Yeah, but which Alucard? If it's the Castlevaina one, that isn't really anything too special.
    I didnt think of that, it BETTER be the hellsing ultimate one.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I didnt think of that, it BETTER be the hellsing ultimate one.
    Odd question, but how would Alucard vs. Alucard shake out, anyway?

    I have a feeling the Castlevania one might have a bad night, but I'm not sure...

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Odd question, but how would Alucard vs. Alucard shake out, anyway?

    I have a feeling the Castlevania one might have a bad night, but I'm not sure...
    It depends, Ultimate Alucard had three million extra lives, multiple powerful thralls he could call on to make life difficult, as well as his own power speed strength and weaponry. Im not sure what the official ruling was for alucard at the end of his series, he absorbed schrodinger and had to get rid of his millions of lives, but I think he got everywhere and nowhere as a passive ability meaning he doesnt die because he wasnt there to be killed or some such thing.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Odd question, but how would Alucard vs. Alucard shake out, anyway?

    I have a feeling the Castlevania one might have a bad night, but I'm not sure...
    In order to kill the one from Hellsing, you have to destroy his entire body so that not even a single drop remains. Integra herself mentions that it pretty much requires you toburn him to ash.

    Then do it again.

    Whevener Alucard drinks someone to death, or absorbs the spilled blood of a recently slain individual, he absorbs their souls.

    In addition to gaining the memories and powers and being able to summon them as familiars, if Alucard ever takes enough damage to die he can substitute one of his familiars for his own soul, releasing it the afterlife in order to instantly resurrect himself to full strength.

    For most of the series, he has over two million familiars, including soldiers from every time period between the 'death' of Vlad Tepes of Wallachia and the modern-day as well as several other vampires, several horses, and an actual Hellhound, but the highest number of familiars he is ever known to have is Three million, four hundred twenty-four thousand, eight hundred sixty-seven.

    Unless you're talking about someone who can casually spam nukes or someone who is a big enough threat that Alucard elects to summon his familiar's as an army(thereby allowing more than one to be destroyed at a time and rendering Alucard vulnerable) you're not killing him.

    And that's assuming that you don't rule that epilog "Alucad spent 30 years killing all of his own familiar's until the only one left was the soul off Shrodinger" as being Alucard at his peak, inwhich Alucard is unable to die and can be in a theoretically infinite number of places at once.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    That does make a good point for Hellsing Alucard, Castlevania Alucard is no slouch, and has a lot of Dracula's powers, but... Three million is a lot.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    That does make a good point for Hellsing Alucard, Castlevania Alucard is no slouch, and has a lot of Dracula's powers, but... Three million is a lot.
    It's very telling, that Millenium's plan for removing Alucard from the field...

    Team Four Star explained it better than I ever could have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellsing Ultimate Abridged episode 10
    Major: Fraulein, have you ever heard of Schrödinger's Cat?
    Integra: I shot Schrödinger's Cat!
    Major: Indeed! And yet it lives! And yet it dies. It is here, yet it is not. It is a curious creation, one of infinite possibilities, as long as it remains unobserved. Yet to consume a thing is to know a thing. Alucard is now partaking of Varrant Officer Schrödinger's paradoxical existence. Und as our dear cat boy stares into ze abyss zat is within Alucard... zat abyss stares back. Ze wave function collapses, uncertainty becomes certainty, ze proverbial coin flips, und...
    Alucard: (suddenly affected) Am I a bad person?
    (Alucard disappears)
    Integra: ALUCARD!! WHAT DID YOU DO?!
    Major: I CALLED HEADS!
    A proverbial coin flip. There was only a 50% chance of t working, and if it had failed Alucard would have become infintly more dangerous. That was the best, nay, only chance of taking him out of the fight.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Hmm... I wonder - if they're going for new-character-with-a-movie youtube algorithm clicks - they'd just do Castlevania's Alucard v. Morbius.

    Well, presumably Castlevania's, because Hellsing's wouldn't be a contest.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    How about the Blacklight Virus from Prototype vs Alucard? 3 Million is a lot, but I don't think Alucard can kill something that can survive a nuke. And the Virus doesn't get tired.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    How about the Blacklight Virus from Prototype vs Alucard? 3 Million is a lot, but I don't think Alucard can kill something that can survive a nuke. And the Virus doesn't get tired.
    That sounds like it would be a very long fight.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    How about the Blacklight Virus from Prototype vs Alucard? 3 Million is a lot, but I don't think Alucard can kill something that can survive a nuke. And the Virus doesn't get tired.
    It depends on if it's Mercer or Heller. Mercer is more iconic, Heller's game wasn't that popular for reasons that I personally think are stupid.

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    Jesus christ, Alex's thought patterns and emotions are molded on those of a sociopath, he explicitly doesn't understand humans, has some weird views on death due to the fact that the people he absorbs still exist within him, and he's literally a virus. God Damn, him becoming the big bad planning to infect humanity with himself in order to forcibly evolve them into a collective superorganism in order to make the conflict stop is a logical progression of his character arc. Especially if you read the comic. If you think the sociopath that beats people to death so he can eat them despite that being unnecessary.

    Not to mention I don't think anyone played the original prototype for the plot. They played it to experience what being a Resident Evil End boss was like and to karate kick helicopters.

    Prototype 2 was a mechanically smoother game with a more sympathetic protagonist, more of the destruction and power fantasy that people played the first game for, a more straightforward memory absorption storyline, and fewer plotholes. People are just butthurt that their fanfics were invalidated.

    Now, to be fair, Activision screwed over the game, refusing to let Radical do some things and deliberately withholding the PC Port even though the majority of poled players wanted to play it on PC and used its 'lack of commercial success despite its very high sales for the month of the release as an excuse to shut down Radical and redistribute their resources, so the game probably could have been better if it wasn't being used as a scapegoat to shut down the creators, but still.


    Heller, meanwhile, is much stronger, due to being infected with the virus after it's absorbed a hell of a lot of DNA from both humans and various redlight and blacklight infected mutants and being designed specifically to absorb the powers of other infected. And much more stubborn, to the point of being able to resist being absorbed by Mercer, even partially absorbed Mercer in response, out of sheer bloodymindedness.

    But I'd still give it to Alucard, Alucard is just that much stronger, and while Alex survived a nuke it blasted him apart and it's implied that he would have died if that crow hadn't eaten him. Mercer is vulnerable to both bullets and the natural weapons of various mutants, even ordinary zombies that aren't much stronger than a normal guy. Alucard would tear him apart and eat him.

    Heller would last longer due to his much more powerful defensive options and much greater regenerative abilities, but he'd only be delaying the inevitable.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Personally, I didn't like Heller because while in narrative terms he may be stronger, he was weaker in gameplay; you had less forms to choose from, leading to a lot less variety in gameplay. Or, well, not less forms exactly but removing a form I liked (Musclemass) for one I didn't (Tendrils) didn't endear it to me.

    I also didn't like his bulkier design at all. "Mercer" was sleek for good reason; it looked cool in motion and made the bulkier, more grotesque transformations stand out more. Heller meanwhile looks like a Left4Dead 2 Charger half the time.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Personally, I didn't like Heller because while in narrative terms he may be stronger, he was weaker in gameplay; you had less forms to choose from, leading to a lot less variety in gameplay. Or, well, not less forms exactly but removing a form I liked (Musclemass) for one I didn't (Tendrils) didn't endear it to me.

    I also didn't like his bulkier design at all. "Mercer" was sleek for good reason; it looked cool in motion and made the bulkier, more grotesque transformations stand out more. Heller meanwhile looks like a Left4Dead 2 Charger half the time.
    I mean, msuclemass and hammer fists ae kind of redundant. They both amount to "make foreamrs bigger for sake of improved throws and punches." It makes sense to fold them together and use the Musclemass slot for something knew.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

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    Doom wins. Lex was physically superior but Doom had counters for most of his abilities and the ability to take them for himself.


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    Tekken's Heihachi Mishima vs. Final Fight's Geese Howard. I've seen that fight suggested in the past, and apparently Geese is the stronger.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Honestly this fight was a confusing muddle that made little sense overall, and the next one has two characters I care nothing for as I never played those games.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Geese is stronger than Heihachi? I mean, he definitely is in terms of challenging fighting game bosses, but of the two I think Heihachi is shown to be more durable.

    Like, Geese died falling from a building. Heihachi survived being tossed miles from an explosion... and a lot of other things.

    Tekken is pretty goofy.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    My knowledge on the subject is third hand, from a person who was doing a video on a new fight for every franchise Death Battle has ever used. For Final Fight he picked Geese and put him up against Heihachi; then said he was told Geese wins. So take it with a grain of salt.
    That said, I can see how Geese wins purely through the scaling Death Battle has already used for their fights. Terry beat Ken, who's equal to Ryu, who beat Jin, who beat Heihachi. Geese is weaker than Terry, but I assume they're still in the same general league.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Also, IIRC, Geese is canonically immortal... Or at least able to come back from the dead (not very clear what/how it works... It may take years). That tower fall when he supposedly died??? It's an insanely tall tower, and it happened after he was defeated by Terry, one of the strongest characters in the Fatal Fury/Art of Fighting/King of Fighters' universe.

    That said, Heihachi's least impressive feat of endurance is surviving being thrown down a giant cliff... And he did get quite a bit of power creep since then, specially from Tekken 5 and forward. The stunts he pulls in Tekken 7 are pretty insane... At one point, he catches a bullet with his teeth, if I'm not mistaken.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Also, IIRC, Geese is canonically immortal... Or at least able to come back from the dead (not very clear what/how it works... It may take years). That tower fall when he supposedly died??? It's an insanely tall tower, and it happened after he was defeated by Terry, one of the strongest characters in the Fatal Fury/Art of Fighting/King of Fighters' universe.
    According to the wiki,

    Quote Originally Posted by SNK Wiki
    In 1981, Geese Howard kills Jeff Bogard in front of his son Terry's eyes (revealed in Fatal Fury: Wild Ambition) and hires Billy Kane as his personal bodyguard. He sets up Billy as his champion in his King of Fighters tournaments. After this, he becomes acquainted with Marie Heinlein, whom he eventually marries, and has a son, Rock, in 1989.

    Ten years after Jeff's death, Terry, his brother Andy Bogard, and their friend Joe Higashi enter Geese's King of Fighters tournament. Terry faces him on top of Geese Tower and defeats him by knocking him out the window. While the town presumes him to be dead, Geese was actually alive, apparently thanks to the secrets of a Chinese scroll in his possession. The scroll, called the "Phoenix Scroll", was later discovered in Geese Tower; it allows the user to speed up their recovery rate.

    During Fatal Fury Special, Geese hears that the scrolls grant immortality, so he discreetly searches for them. The story in Real Bout Fatal Fury explains that Geese obtained all three scrolls from Jin Chonshu and Jin Chonrei. However, he strategically wants them destroyed so that they would never be used against him. In the same game, he finally announces his presence to the public and organizes another King of Fighters tournament to settle his differences with the Bogard brothers. In the tournament's climax, he faces Terry and is once again thrown from the tower. Although Terry caught hold of his nemesis' hand, Geese refused his help and wrenched his arm away from Terry's grasp, laughing while falling to his own death, for good.

    Though there was speculation that he survived his second encounter, the story in Garou: Mark of the Wolves depicts that Geese had fatally fell from Geese Tower. The Real Bout series alluded to this fact with his nightmare form that appeared as a difficult secret boss. He is survived in the games by his son Rock Howard.
    They bring him back for fighting game purposes as Nightmare Geese, but Geese is dead.

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    I guess that makes sense...

    I'm not super well-versed in SNK lore, as the chronology and canonicity of events is a bit of a mess and I'm not a huge fan of KoF either.

    Heihachi might win simply because he's had a couple extra decades of canonical power creep, then.

    EDIT: However... It's worth noting that Geese is canonically alive in KoF '96, which takes place after his supposed death... And that he's implied to be dead in a later game that takes place in an alternate timeline... So make of that what you will.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-04-08 at 08:02 AM.

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I guess that makes sense...

    I'm not super well-versed in SNK lore, as the chronology and canonicity of events is a bit of a mess and I'm not a huge fan of KoF either.

    Heihachi might win simply because he's had a couple extra decades of canonical power creep, then.
    That's largely what I was thinking. Though Iamyourking's point that DB's weird power-scaling malarkey might make anything Heihachi himself does irrelevant, as it'll just be ranking other characters through a mystifying six degrees of Kevin Bacon kind-of-way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    EDIT: However... It's worth noting that Geese is canonically alive in KoF '96, which takes place after his supposed death... And that he's implied to be dead in a later game that takes place in an alternate timeline... So make of that what you will.
    I mean, Geese Howard is technically in Tekken 7 as DLC. So, if you really want a conclusive match-up, just versus him with Heihachi.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2021-04-08 at 08:25 AM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I mean, Geese Howard is technically in Tekken 7 as DLC. So, if you really want a conclusive match-up, just versus him with Heihachi.
    But not canonically... Unless Tekken, Street Fighter*, King of Fighters, Final Fantasy XV and The Walking Dead take place in the same universe.

    Also, if we did that, whichever character I pick would be the winner... . Admitedly that would be only slightly more arbitrary than DB's "research" and conclusions.

    *: Akuma is canonical, but Tekken and SF are still treated as separate universes/timelines.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-04-08 at 12:25 PM.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    After doing some research, I think Heihachi is going to get the win.
    Strength: Geese is Large Building level, Heihachi has beaten Mountain level.
    Speed: They can both dodge lasers, but Heihachi consistently does so whenever he fights Kazuya or Jin.
    Durability: Geese died falling off a building, Heihachi fell a similar distance then walked back up. He's also fought in an active volcano and endured the lasers he failed to dodge.
    Skill: They're both highly experienced, but Heihachi is older. Not a major factor.
    Tricks: Geese has the edge here at least, through projectiles and superior counterattacks.

    Also of note: One of the factors Death Battle used for giving Ryu the win over Jin was scaling to Akuma. They mention that Heihachi has also fought Akuma-and survived the Raging Demon-in that video but otherwise don't consider him to be a factor. Heihachi still lost that fight, but if they're going to scale Geese to Terry it would be fair to do the same with Heihachi and Akuma.
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    Default Re: DEATH BATTLE - Season 8: Settling the debate once and for all?

    Yup... Like I said, having a couple extra decades of canonical power creep is a pretty big advantage.
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