OOTS #1227 - The Discussion Thread

[danielxcutter]

I'm not saying it's uncharacteristic of Xykon, but it does seem incredibly careless to pull a scry-and-die on an epic level adventurer whose entire life mission is to thwart your goals of capturing a gate, and not even make sure you've killed her.

To be fair, it sounds like she probably would have died if not for the trolls.

On the other hand, she's a high-level character and Resurrection is a thing, let alone the True version; it's pretty careless not to kill her and then not Soul Bind her if you're okay with being Evil.

[RichTF]

I'm not saying it's uncharacteristic of Xykon, but it does seem incredibly careless to pull a scry-and-die on an epic level adventurer whose entire life mission is to thwart your goals of capturing a gate, and not even make sure you've killed her.

Serini does say that “[the trolls] found me moments after”, so maybe Xykon assumed that they would finish her off. We know he enjoys seeing other monsters do his dirty work for him.

[danielxcutter]

Serini does say that “[the trolls] found me moments after”, so maybe Xykon assumed that they would finish her off. We know he enjoys seeing other monsters do his dirty work for him.

...Yeah, and there's been like at most five PC race members who've actually tried to treat monstrous beings fairly, outside Evil business or being forced to. Maybe not even that; the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Roy(the orcs in OTOOPCs), O-Chul(pretty much the entirety of his story in GDGU), and now Serini.

[Fyraltari]

Gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed in Lien for not guessing the reason. Bit aof a cynic for a pladin that one.


Also, the troll cut into their arm rather than their hand to give blood, that's a good call, scaring a hand may lead to severe loss of dexterity.

that Serini is in some sense immortal - even if the halfling part dies, the troll part survives. I'm not sure how that would work in practice.

I don't think any of her brain is made of troll, so I'd say that she's no more immortal than Henrietta Lacks, or rather the troll donor is no more immortal than Lacks.

I'm not saying it's uncharacteristic of Xykon, but it does seem incredibly careless to pull a scry-and-die on an epic level adventurer whose entire life mission is to thwart your goals of capturing a gate, and not even make sure you've killed her.

She says he left her for dead so he may have thought he had made sure she was dead.

[MoonCat]

To be fair, it sounds like she probably would have died if not for the trolls.

On the other hand, she's a high-level character and Resurrection is a thing, let alone the True version; it's pretty careless not to kill her and then not Soul Bind her if you're okay with being Evil.

Exactly, she's epic-level, presumed to associate with other epic-level adventurers, and could be expected to be carrying any variety of items that might help. I feel that in a world with so many instant fixes for deadly attacks, while only a thorough person might bother to prevent ressurrection, it should be standard to make sure your opponent either has X-eyes of a pile of ash for a face

I don't think Xykon would have necessarily thought to soul-bind Lirian if not for sheer spite, but I think it made sense for him to take it as practice for all the Scribblers her killed afterwards—and this is obviously after killing Lirian, so I'm surprised he didn't.

[Ionathus]

This exchange is delightful, and answers many of my questions! Agreed with others that Serini's injuries are quite gruesome (by this comic's standards), but it does feel appropriate for the severity of it.

O-Chul gets a chance to shine with his silly "monsters might possibly have thoughts and feelings" mentality. Hoping Serini notices that, but given her dismissive response I don't think it'll score any points with her.

Nice to know she's still got at least a bit of a sense of humor (per last comic's discussion, my fear was that she'd be grizzled and old and sad and never funny).

One small detail that really sticks out to me: check out that panel where Xykon ambushes her! The details on the grassland and houses are fantastic. Really makes me wonder what some of this comic's prior environments (the plains, the Sunken Valley, much of the human lands in the Northern Continents) would look like in the new art style! And it also makes me realize just how much care & attention has been going into the mountains & caverns of Utterly Dwarfed and this book.


EDIT to respond:

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Exactly, she's epic-level, presumed to associate with other epic-level adventurers, and could be expected to be carrying any variety of items that might help. I feel that in a world with so many instant fixes for deadly attacks, while only a thorough person might bother to prevent ressurrection, it should be standard to make sure your opponent either has X-eyes of a pile of ash for a face

I don't think Xykon would have necessarily thought to soul-bind Lirian if not for sheer spite, but I think it made sense for him to take it as practice for all the Scribblers her killed afterwards—and this is obviously after killing Lirian, so I'm surprised he didn't.

Agreed, I'm also a little surprised Xykon didn't at least finish her off after

Spoiler: SoD

Show

his first encounter with the Scribblers was so harrowing. My guess is that, since she's not a spellcaster, he didn't really consider her that big of a threat. Sorcerers can have superiority complexes too!

Xykon's now been nearly beaten by both Lirian's & Soon's defenses, and Dorukan was no cakewalk either.

It's entirely on-brand that leaving Serini to die will most likely contribute to his downfall.

[Fitzclowningham]

From the last strip, I figured Serini’s magic cauldron was there to explain how a rogue could put together an amnesia potion (and possibly the dart poison) and was kind of a one-shot thing. Now it appears she is an accomplished alchemist. RAW say she’s at least a 3rd level caster. Interesting

Edit: duh, the cauldron being magic probably allows a non-caster to brew potions. Still interesting that she thinks outside of the rogue box

[IntelectPaladin]

While seeing Roy's body regenerate some time ago may be considered to be more graphic, it's generally considered to be him healing, as a positive.
Today's graphic was quite a negative (no pun intended), so it has an understandably higher shock value, I believe.

Also, am I the only one still worried for the Paladin's memories? Serini seems quite set on carrying out her mental execution, of a sort.
(In that the loss of the memories would be in effect 'killing' their selves that knew of her.)

Here's hoping for better than we worry about.

[Hiro Quester]

Her penchant for lying to paladins is also borne out by their first meeting, now we know that the claims about poison were a successful bluff.

[Rogar Demonblud]

...Yeah, and there's been like at most five PC race members who've actually tried to treat monstrous beings fairly, outside Evil business or being forced to. Maybe not even that; the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Roy(the orcs in OTOOPCs), O-Chul(pretty much the entirety of his story in GDGU), and now Serini.

Elan, when he converted the Island Orcs to Banjo/Gigglesism.

[MoonCat]

Serini does say that “[the trolls] found me moments after”, so maybe Xykon assumed that they would finish her off. We know he enjoys seeing other monsters do his dirty work for him.

I love that interpretation, since it plays on the cynicism and disrespect for monsters to cause Xykon's eventual downfall. (Though/And it raises some uncomfortable parallels with Lien's disappointing answer to Serini now.)

She says he left her for dead so he may have thought he had made sure she was dead.

Well, yes. I have no doubt that he thought he killed her. I just think it's very careless in the OoTS world to assume someone's dead (and more importantly, unable to come back) just because they're a charred lump of raw meat.

[Hiro Quester]

Eh, I'm going to argue Chaotic Neutral at most.

I was thinking the same. But possibly even chaotic good. Loves lying to paladins, but makes friends with trolls.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, yes. I have no doubt that he thought he killed her. I just think it's very careless in the OoTS world to assume someone's dead (and more importantly, unable to come back) just because they're a charred lump of raw meat.

A Ring of Regeneration would've had her back on her feet in a day, tops.

[danielxcutter]

Exactly, she's epic-level, presumed to associate with other epic-level adventurers, and could be expected to be carrying any variety of items that might help. I feel that in a world with so many instant fixes for deadly attacks, while only a thorough person might bother to prevent ressurrection, it should be standard to make sure your opponent either has X-eyes of a pile of ash for a face

I don't think Xykon would have necessarily thought to soul-bind Lirian if not for sheer spite, but I think it made sense for him to take it as practice for all the Scribblers her killed afterwards—and this is obviously after killing Lirian, so I'm surprised he didn't.

I was talking with a friend about that, and his response was ""What danger is a class whose primary feature I am immune to?" I could see it. Ironic given his disdain for Wizard snobbery"

Sounds fairly accurate(and incredibly short-sighted even so, admittedly), if you ask me,

This exchange is delightful, and answers many of my questions! Agreed with others that Serini's injuries are quite gruesome (by this comic's standards), but it does feel appropriate for the severity of it.

O-Chul gets a chance to shine with his silly "monsters might possibly have thoughts and feelings" mentality. Hoping Serini notices that, but given her dismissive response I don't think it'll score any points with her.

...Do you actually think it's "silly"? Because I think Rich's trying to make a point that it's not. Also if anyone gets through to Serini it'd be O-Chul.

Nice to know she's still got at least a bit of a sense of humor (per last comic's discussion, my fear was that she'd be grizzled and old and sad and never funny).

Same really; she feels like a mixture of Belkar and Haley minus the wanton stabbing and money fetish

One small detail that really sticks out to me: check out that panel where Xykon ambushes her! The details on the grassland and houses are fantastic. Really makes me wonder what some of this comic's prior environments (the plains, the Sunken Valley, much of the human lands in the Northern Continents) would look like in the new art style! And it also makes me realize just how much care & attention has been going into the mountains & caverns of Utterly Dwarfed and this book.

Yeah, the artstyle's improved a LOT in the past two books.


Also, I suppose I should have seen the only Scribbler able to help being the one who can't just do the fight for the OotS. Soon and Kraagor would probably do more damage to the big X, each, and don't even get me started on the casters. Serini is limited, however, because she can't hurt Xykon and they need Redcloak alive to seal the Rifts for good.

[Corian]

I don't think Xykon would have necessarily thought to soul-bind Lirian if not for sheer spite, but I think it made sense for him to take it as practice for all the Scribblers her killed afterwards—and this is obviously after killing Lirian, so I'm surprised he didn't.

I have the opposite impression: I think he got the diary before his attack on Lirian (if only to know where to attack Lirian in the first place.) So soul binding might have become a new tactic from then on.

[danielxcutter]

From the last strip, I figured Serini’s magic cauldron was there to explain how a rogue could put together an amnesia potion (and possibly the dart poison) and was kind of a one-shot thing. Now it appears she is an accomplished alchemist. RAW say she’s at least a 3rd level caster. Interesting

Edit: duh, the cauldron being magic probably allows a non-caster to brew potions. Still interesting that she thinks outside of the rogue box

Thinking outside the box is a rogue thing in general. Spellcasters stuff you inside the box and shake it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Redcloak guided them to Lirian, because that was the one Gate they already knew of. Seriously, if anyone hasn't already bought and read Start of Darkness, do so as soon as possible.

[Wildstag]

Well this lends weight to the theory that the isolation wasn't actually the policy they went with, just the policy they treated Soon with. Between the bet, the romance, and the "lie to paladins" attitude, we have more concrete evidence that the other gate defenders were in cahoots and contact with each other and left Soon to his own devices.

Kinda sad, to be honest, that none of them seems to have been cordial with Soon.

Seriously, if anyone hasn't already bought and read Start of Darkness, do so as soon as possible.

Ah yes the "why don't you all have disposable income too?" argument.

[MoonCat]

A Ring of Regeneration would've had her back on her feet in a day, tops.

Exactly! Maybe he didn't care if she lived or not... Not that that makes it any better.

I was talking with a friend about that, and his response was ""What danger is a class whose primary feature I am immune to?" I could see it. Ironic given his disdain for Wizard snobbery"

Sounds fairly accurate(and incredibly short-sighted even so, admittedly), if you ask me.

Yes, I think this is all very characteristic of Xykon, but it might still be literally the worst tactical decision/dumbest move in general we've ever seen him make.

I have the opposite impression: I think he got the diary before his attack on Lirian (if only to know where to attack Lirian in the first place.) So soul binding might have become a new tactic from then on.

You'll have to bear with me, as my copy of of SoD is on a different continent, but I am certain that this is after he encountered Lirian.

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Xykon becomes a lich while attacking Lirian's gate, and only learns about the other locations (thereby necessitating his search for Serini's diary) when he manages to kill Lirian.

[danielxcutter]

Comment on Reddit:

I guess you could say the paladins got trolled.

Me: https://tenor.com/view/undertale-pap...ll-gif-5769055

[MoonCat]

Redcloak guided them to Lirian, because that was the one Gate they already knew of. Seriously, if anyone hasn't already bought and read Start of Darkness, do so as soon as possible.

Come now, it's not for everyone to spend their money on prequels to the webcomics they follow, and the Giant has been very clear that any important information will be revealed in-comic as well.

On which note, have I misremembered, or don't we still need to spoiler the Lirian stuff because it hasn't been in the main strip yet?

[danielxcutter]

Come now, it's not for everyone to spend their money on prequels to the webcomics they follow, and the Giant has been very clear that any important information will be revealed in-comic as well.

On which note, have I misremembered, or don't we still need to spoiler the Lirian stuff because it hasn't been in the main strip yet?

Sounds fair enough on both accounts.

[KorvinStarmast]

"We were friends."

I like that.

Well, that settles all the debate about "What's the other half" (Or 1/4th I guess).

I guessed Hag, and missed. (Granted, Hags and Trolls seem to work together in 5e lore, not sure how 3.x lore handles that)

Only O-Chul could be that concerned about politeness while chained to a wall!

O-Chul: still killing it as "this is how to be a paladin" even though he's multi class as Fighter/Paladin.

I kindof wonder if Serini might be evil.

Why would that matter? "Evil" isn't one big happy, or unhappy, family anymore than Good is (see Miko and Roy on the LG issue right there ...)

Looks like halfling foot hair is stronger than Troll blood transfusions.

*giggle* Nice catch.

This does raise the question, why didn't Xykon loot her magic items along with her diary?

He showed, for once, a little bit of self discipline: he had a focus on getting that diary, and he did precisely that. Her other toys may very well have been of no use to him.

I think there's a very good chance of O-Chul being able to talk Serini into helping them.

Hmm, given Serini's long experience and ability to bluff and such, that's a tough bet to back.

I know it's presented in a simplistic stick figure style, but the image of Serini missing half of her flesh is... disturbing.

More or less disturbing that the drawn effects of the disintegrate spell that's been used numerous times in the strip?

1. Thanks Giant.
2. Serini smiles / grins in the last panel. That really made the strip for me.
3. O-Chul - of course, he does his usual.
4. Half Troll - nice job on the creativity, Giant. (My Hag guess is wrong, and I am happy that it is so since Half Troll can also underscore Serini's longevity).

[Corian]

You'll have to bear with me, as my copy of of SoD is on a different continent, but I am certain that this is after he encountered Lirian.

I feel really silly right now. You're right of course.

ETA: and that seems all the more insightful:

I was talking with a friend about that, and his response was ""What danger is a class whose primary feature I am immune to?" I could see it. Ironic given his disdain for Wizard snobbery"

[Ionathus]

...Do you actually think it's "silly"? Because I think Rich's trying to make a point that it's not. Also if anyone gets through to Serini it'd be O-Chul.

No, I was shooting for sarcasm, adding my voice to Schroeswald's earlier tongue-in-cheek comment:

Whatever could this mean for the themes of the comic with regards to monster races, it could literally mean anything.

[understatement]

In regards to Xykon leaving Serini alive, is it possible that he didn't know she was an epic-level rogue? (and that she'd only survive because she was so high level).

[Tokeull]

Another reason why Xykon did not killed her. She is an epic level rogue. Drink a inviseble potion and hide. Her sneak skills are just so high, Xykon would not find her. We know Xykon is bad at divination.

[Rogar Demonblud]

He'd fought Lirian twice at that point. He had a pretty good idea how powerful her friends and adventuring compatriots would be.

[danielxcutter]

In regards to Xykon leaving Serini alive, is it possible that he didn't know she was an epic-level rogue? (and that she'd only survive because she was so high level).

Another reason why Xykon did not killed her. She is an epic level rogue. Drink a inviseble potion and hide. Her sneak skills are just so high, Xykon would not find her. We know Xykon is bad at divination.

Spoiler: SoD spoilerz

Show

If he's a lich he must have known Serini was a former Scribbler, because he became a lich to defeat Lirian. Who he knew was an epic spellcaster.

So yeah, he probably knew she was an epic rogue. The reason might have been because she's an epic rogue.

[DaOldeWolf]

No wonder Soon was always scowling around her. She probably liked to poke Soon, the paladin too.