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Thread: Skinchanger Class
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2021-02-25, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Skinchanger Class
Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/02btxj3a8b...ft_v2.pdf?dl=0
This is afirstnew draft of my Skinchanger class (picked it up again after a long hiatus) – I’m very curious as to your thoughts. The design basis of the class serves as a mashup between barbarian and druid with some summoning capability thrown in. It’s more predicated around survivability then damage (also including summoned beasts as damage absorbers) but can certainly provide burst damage, especially if sending a wave of summoned creatures.
Hopefully there’s some degree of balance around the heavy drain on the class’s Primal Well which essentially powers all main features (Primal Rage, Wild Summons, Skinchange). I thought about using Hit Die as the power source but wanted to try this route first.
I’ve not done any spreadsheet work yet to model the damage against my baseline classes (usually fighter, rogue and barbarian). It may be moot as the summoned creatures might be too much of a wildcard.
Only one of the mentioned mantles is included as an example. I did not want to do too much work on this front if the core class had to be revised. The basic structure of the mantles will be as follows: 1st level – A skill or utility feature and a primal rage modification; 3rd level – an “identity” feature and the relevant Wild Summons table; 5th level – Skinchange note and identification of rage shape (no features); 9th level – Utility/survivability buff and at 15th level the cap, which is also an “identity” feature which will be different for each mantle based on perceived role.
Disclaimer: This class most definitely does not fill a needed niche in 5E. It is intended to fit within my own homebrewed class structures where the barbarian (rewritten as the berserker) does not have Path of the Totem and wild shape is not baked into the druid core class. I also have somewhat of a compulsive need to fit exactly three classes under each “umbrella” (e.g. martial, stealth, divine, arcane, etc.) so had to fit one more class in the “primal” space along with druid and ranger. My usual mandate for each class is that it has a unique mechanic so that it plays differently than the others; this particular does not do that so much (other than maybe pre-spending Hit Dice to heal when dropping out of skinchange form).
A lot of homebrew assumptions in this class. Where needed, I’ve added a reference to 5E next to terminology that is solely my own ruleset. The exception to this is the base class skills which you’ll have to live with. ; )
Finally, the usual. The inspiration for this class comes from many sources, including various other homebrew attempts at similar concepts – whether from Reddit, giantitp forum, etc. If you see something that is suspiciously familiar in concept or wording, it’s probably because it is – ground already covered by an intrepid homebrew artist.
EDIT 2/28/2021: Updated link to new version. Revised a number of core features and added an additional mantle (Mantle of the Hunt).Last edited by Mourne; 2021-02-28 at 02:53 PM.
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2021-02-26, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- Location
- The Netherlands
- Gender
Re: Skinchanger Class
Hi, I'm going to browse through and see what I spot. Can't guarantee I see the full picture, but I hope that we can get talking about things and then go deeper as needed. I'm writing this as I go, so things might make more sense later on... we'll see how I edit this.
1) hitdice: 2d4 - an odd choice, but an interesting one. I assume this doesn't just mean a different way to calculate your HP at level up, but also more HD in the short rest category (and probably features I'll be reading about shortly)
2) Multiclassing. While you mention what stats you need to multiclass, you don't mention what skills/etc you gain when you take your first multiclassed level of skinchanger.
3) "your mantle can't be forcibly taken from you" <== does this mean it's literally attached to you? How about damage? (This is a risk with building a class with an item as basis. Maybe go the Warlock route where you can recreate the item? Or even just assume the item is an idea and not a physical one for most of it?)
4) Is the speak with animals part also limited to animals associated with your mantle?
5) Blood scent: Interesting (feels similar to certain sharks I think?) However, in a more "lived in" universe... how often won't there be a random hurt bird, insect or other critter in that radius? The usefulness of this ability will be very much based on how realistically the DM will handle it. After finding 7 dead rats, your player will stop using it. But if you find that hurt enemy 1 mile away... what kind of nature is naturing around there?
6) Primal rage seems... powerful at low levels. Both the extra attack and the regeneration. Granted, the regeneration might be weaker than resistance to physical damage... in certain situations, but the extra attack will often overpower the rage damage bonus (comparing to barbarian). So yeah... not sure about the balance on this one.
7) keen senses: the first part seems okay, basically a non scaling proficiency bonus to perception (due to being a different bonus, it might go insane if you do take perceptive, expertise and other fun things). The second part though. That's quite the powerful ability. (Though technically this doesn't affect hiding/stealth, but probably intended to affect it none-the-less). This pretty much says nope to rogues and most other forms of ambush. Which seems over the top to me.
8) Lesser skin change. The 10 minute to transform and then 1 hour duration seems harsh... maybe make it 1 minute (enough to make it non combat viable/roleplay interesting, but not quite so long). Beyond that, the temporary hitpoints/transforming back isn't described properly. I assume it works like a druid "new shape HP, and if you drop below zero, you take the rest of the damage in your normal form"? I'll probably be back to this feature once I get to the mantle part of the document.
9) ASI: the text says normal (4,8,12,16,19) while the table has fighter style (4,6,8,12,14,16,19) - which is it and why? (and if you go normal, maybe move one of the level 7 abilities to level 6, etc)
10) The 10 to 17 range of levels are interesting, but a bit heavily stacked. Not quite sure yet and not going to look to deep into it at this point in time.
11) At level 18 you are basically immortal, aren't you? To everything except time... though technically even that isn't true from what's written.
12) the powerful build is good, the added two handed weapons... might be a bit much (and the heavy property won't even count for most characters)
13) wild summons... I'd do this more like a normal summon spell. So lowest amount of creatures and lowest CR at level 3. Either more creatures or higher CR at level 5, etc. As 6+prof boars at level 3... is going to seriously add some muscle to a party.
Anyhow, long story short, my conclusions:
- I like the idea and feel alot.
- There's a bit too much going on for this class at many levels (lots of "good ideas" + "extra bonus for me" feeling)
- And finally, the combination of rage+shapeshift+summon might just be a bit too much at the same time.
Help improve my (favorite) 5e homebrews: The Circle of the Full Moon, Items of Darkness and The Unseen Hand (Warlock Patron).
My old 3.5 homebrews: The Disciple of the gem, the Dragonhearted and my Warlock fix.
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2021-02-26, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Skinchanger Class
First off, you're gonna get more responses if you post it here and not as a link. That's just how things go.
You list hit dice as 2d4, but gain 1d8 HP per level. Intentional?
There's only one category of shields.
You should list weapons as "Simple and Martial", because as written, you know how to use a longsword but not a dagger.
Your skills include non-5E skills.
What is a PV?
Okay, I'm actually gonna stop now-because this class reads like it's being used for a system based on 5E, but is not 5E. If that's the case... I'm not sure how much help I can give.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2021-02-27, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Skinchanger Class
Hi, I'm going to browse through and see what I spot. Can't guarantee I see the full picture, but I hope that we can get talking about things and then go deeper as needed. I'm writing this as I go, so things might make more sense later on... we'll see how I edit this.
1) hitdice: 2d4 - an odd choice, but an interesting one. I assume this doesn't just mean a different way to calculate your HP at level up, but also more HD in the short rest category (and probably features I'll be reading about shortly)
2) Multiclassing. While you mention what stats you need to multiclass, you don't mention what skills/etc you gain when you take your first multiclassed level of skinchanger.
3) "your mantle can't be forcibly taken from you" <== does this mean it's literally attached to you? How about damage? (This is a risk with building a class with an item as basis. Maybe go the Warlock route where you can recreate the item? Or even just assume the item is an idea and not a physical one for most of it?)
4) Is the speak with animals part also limited to animals associated with your mantle?
5) Blood scent: Interesting (feels similar to certain sharks I think?) However, in a more "lived in" universe... how often won't there be a random hurt bird, insect or other critter in that radius? The usefulness of this ability will be very much based on how realistically the DM will handle it. After finding 7 dead rats, your player will stop using it. But if you find that hurt enemy 1 mile away... what kind of nature is naturing around there?
6) Primal rage seems... powerful at low levels. Both the extra attack and the regeneration. Granted, the regeneration might be weaker than resistance to physical damage... in certain situations, but the extra attack will often overpower the rage damage bonus (comparing to barbarian). So yeah... not sure about the balance on this one.
I did go through and rework the Primal Rage feature. The extra attack now has to be one of the mantle's rage attacks which also have had their damage reduced (this is what the damage output model were based on).
7) keen senses: the first part seems okay, basically a non scaling proficiency bonus to perception (due to being a different bonus, it might go insane if you do take perceptive, expertise and other fun things). The second part though. That's quite the powerful ability. (Though technically this doesn't affect hiding/stealth, but probably intended to affect it none-the-less). This pretty much says nope to rogues and most other forms of ambush. Which seems over the top to me.
8) Lesser skin change. The 10 minute to transform and then 1 hour duration seems harsh... maybe make it 1 minute (enough to make it non combat viable/roleplay interesting, but not quite so long). Beyond that, the temporary hitpoints/transforming back isn't described properly. I assume it works like a druid "new shape HP, and if you drop below zero, you take the rest of the damage in your normal form"? I'll probably be back to this feature once I get to the mantle part of the document.
9) ASI: the text says normal (4,8,12,16,19) while the table has fighter style (4,6,8,12,14,16,19) - which is it and why? (and if you go normal, maybe move one of the level 7 abilities to level 6, etc)
10) The 10 to 17 range of levels are interesting, but a bit heavily stacked. Not quite sure yet and not going to look to deep into it at this point in time.
11) At level 18 you are basically immortal, aren't you? To everything except time... though technically even that isn't true from what's written.
12) the powerful build is good, the added two handed weapons... might be a bit much (and the heavy property won't even count for most characters)
13) wild summons... I'd do this more like a normal summon spell. So lowest amount of creatures and lowest CR at level 3. Either more creatures or higher CR at level 5, etc. As 6+prof boars at level 3... is going to seriously add some muscle to a party.
Anyhow, long story short, my conclusions:
- I like the idea and feel alot.
- There's a bit too much going on for this class at many levels (lots of "good ideas" + "extra bonus for me" feeling)
- And finally, the combination of rage+shapeshift+summon might just be a bit too much at the same time.
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2021-02-27, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Skinchanger Class
You list hit dice as 2d4, but gain 1d8 HP per level. Intentional?
There's only one category of shields.
You should list weapons as "Simple and Martial", because as written, you know how to use a longsword but not a dagger.
Your skills include non-5E skills.
What is a PV?
Okay, I'm actually gonna stop now-because this class reads like it's being used for a system based on 5E, but is not 5E. If that's the case... I'm not sure how much help I can give.
Again, thanks for the thoughts!