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2021-03-07, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
I get the joke - I'm just pointing out that "carnivores don't eat bone" is not 100% accurate, just like "vegetarians don't eat wood" is - and that there are a couple of exceptions.
Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-03-07 at 11:21 AM.
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2021-03-07, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-03-07 at 12:18 PM.
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2021-03-07, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2021-03-07, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Italy
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2021-03-07, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
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2021-03-07, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Feh. Keep your weird human sensibilities out of this!
[Goes into angry little flower mode.] So what? Planties should just let all those sweet nutrients go to waste? If that bothers you folks, stop burying your kind in the ground!
Also, few planties kill for their food, and they don't grind up anyone for it either. People on the other hand kill planties on a regular basis and grind them down for food. Now, who's the Chaotic Evil party here? (HInt: it's you.)
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2021-03-07, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Spoiler: Jurassic Park novelBeyond a fence, they came to the swimming pool, which spilled over into a series of waterfalls and smaller rocky pools. The area was planted with huge ferns. “Isn’t this extraordinary?” Ed Regis said. “Especially on a misty day, these plants really contribute to the prehistoric atmosphere. These are authentic Jurassic ferns, of course.”
Ellie paused to look more closely at the ferns. Yes, it was just as he said: Serenna veriformans, a plant found abundantly in fossils more than two hundred million years old, now common only in the wetlands of Brazil and Colombia. But whoever had decided to place this particular fern at poolside obviously didn’t know that the spores of veriformans contained a deadly beta-carboline alkaloid. Even touching the attractive green fronds could make you sick, and if a child were to take a mouthful, he would almost certainly die—the toxin was fifty times more poisonous than oleander. People were so naive about plants, Ellie thought. They just chose plants for appearance, as they would choose a picture for the wall. It never occurred to them that plants were actually living things, busily performing all the living functions of respiration, ingestion, excretion, reproduction—and defense.
People were so naive about plants, Ellie thought. They just chose plants for appearance, as they would choose a picture for the wall. It never occurred to them that plants were actually living things, busily performing all the living functions of respiration, ingestion, excretion, reproduction and defense. But Ellie knew that, in the earth's history, plants had evolved as competitively as animals, and in some ways more fiercely. The poison in Serenna veriformans was a minor example of the elaborate chemical arsenal of weapons that plants had evolved. There were terpenes, which plants spread to poison the soil around them and inhibit competitors; alkaloids, which made them unpalatable to insects and predators (and children); and pheromones, used for communication. When a Douglas fir tree was attacked by beetles, it produced an anti-feedant chemical—and so did other Douglas firs in distant parts of the forest. It happened in response to a warning alleochemical secreted by the trees that were under attack.
People who imagined that life on earth consisted of animals moving against a green background seriously misunderstood what they were seeing. That green background was busily alive. Plants grew, moved, twisted, and turned, fighting for the sun; and they interacted continuously with animals-discouraging some with bark and thorns; poisoning others, and feeding still others to advance their own reproduction, to spread their pollen and seeds. It was a complex, dynamic process which she never ceased to find fascinating. And which she knew most people simply didn't understand.
But if planting deadly ferns at poolside was any indication, then it was clear that the designers of Jurassic Park had not been as careful as they should have been.
You can't fool me with your pro-plant propaganda. Nature red in tooth and claw is not solely limited to a single kingdom. Plants will gladly shed another's chlorophyll if necessary. David Attenborough talks not infrequently about the intense levels of competition in the rainforests when one tree dies - numerous other plants must battle it out for the precious spot of sunlight newly opened. I not not go out of my way to demonize plants, but neither do I defend their way of life, surviving at the expense of others if need be. Like all natural life.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-03-07, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-03-07, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
One must be careful not to dismiss the Truth as propaganda all too easily.
Nature red in tooth and claw is not solely limited to a single kingdom. Plants will gladly shed another's chlorophyll if necessary. David Attenborough talks not infrequently about the intense levels of competition in the rainforests when one tree dies - numerous other plants must battle it out for the precious spot of sunlight newly opened. I not not go out of my way to demonize plants, but neither do I defend their way of life, surviving at the expense of others if need be. Like all natural life.
KILL ALL HUMANS!
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2021-03-07, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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2021-03-07, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
I want...
10Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-03-07, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Someone has probably already brought it up that the exact same argumant has been made about people who love cats; i.e., they must be good people at heart.
Cue the Bond villain petting his little white cat...
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2021-03-08, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
I got to try some alici when I was in Italy; yummy.
Beasts tend to be 'alignment neutral' or as we used to say "alignment: hungry" ...
Belkar.
Cue the Bond villain petting his little white cat...Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-03-10, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Considering that Serini is using these plants to manufacture poison and that the use of poison in D&D is considered a non-good act, the implications are that neither Serini or plants are Good.
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2021-03-10, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Planties don't use poison. People harming planties by, say, eating them are the ones that use poison on themselves. Therefore, people eating planites are poison-users and as such, Evil.
(Also, we don't know that she manufactures poison from the plants. It's a popular theory, but it was never confirmed.)
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2021-03-10, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
I get twitchy, sometimes, when I see the missed chance for a proper neither / nor application ... if neither Serini nor the plants are good, them both being neutral (well, the plants likely being non aligned) is quite plausible.
I'd drop Serini into Neutral alignment without much fuss if Alignment matters; and when it comes to story telling it rarely does.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-03-10 at 09:50 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-03-10, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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2021-03-10, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2021-03-10, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Similarly, my swinging my fist in the empty air is a passive defense and nobody asked anyone who runs into it to punch themselves. And this isn't even touching on trees with fruit that explode. Unless grenades are now passive as well.
Anyway, good to see that one can away from "plants don't use poison", even if it's just to "its the victims fault for being poisoned".Last edited by Peelee; 2021-03-10 at 10:53 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-03-10, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Bad example. Swinging your fist is an action rather than a passive defense. This is more like sitting on a hedgehog (don't do that, it's an unnecessarily cruel thing that should never happen to a hedgehog): if you sit on a hedgehog, did the hedgehog use its spikes on you?
And this isn't even touching on trees with fruit that explode. Unless grenades are now passive as well.
If planties do it, it must be so.
Anyway, good to see that one can away from "plants don't use poison", even if it's just to "its the victims fault for being poisoned".
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2021-03-10, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Some plants release poison, not to ward off animals, but to repel, or even kill, other plants.
https://www.permaculturenews.org/201...t-allelopathy/
And some are positively vampiric toward other plants:
http://gardenprofessors.com/when-pla...ck-each-other/Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2021-03-10, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
It's pretty hard for me to disagree with the statement "Plants use poison as a defense mechanism, therefore plants use poison."
Granted, the rule that using poison is an inherently non-Good act but using a sword isn't has always struck me as a dumb one, and I don't enforce it in my games. I think a LG paladin stole some poison from an efreeti slaver in one of my games once and I saw zero alignment problems with that. Nor would I have an issue with him using that poison as a lethal weapon.Last edited by Emanick; 2021-03-10 at 11:12 AM.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2021-03-10, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Especially when one "Always Lawful Good" outsider - the couatl, has poisonous fangs.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/couatl.htmMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2021-03-10, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-03-10, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
LIES!
I'd argue that „plants have poison as a defense mechanism” and „plants use poison” are not the same thing.
I thought we were doing just that for quite a while.
Probably yes. They can move those things you know, it's not like they are perpetually sticking out 90° from their skin.
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2021-03-10, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
This is reaching a level of pedantry that, even for this forum, is kind of, um, notable, but if you think plants don't "use" poison, you are using the word "use" in a very unusual way.
From Dictionary.com, the definition of "use":
verb (used with object), used, us·ing.
1. to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife.
2. to avail oneself of; apply to one's own purposes: to use the facilities.
3. to expend or consume in use: We have used the money provided.
4. to treat or behave toward: He did not use his employees with much consideration.
Plants employ poison for a purpose, availing themselves of it, applying it to the purpose of staying alive. This process expends or consumes some of the poison they store in their bodies. This is, in fact, how many of them treat or behave toward creatures that attempt to eat or damage them (or sometimes just come into contact with them, as many unfortunate souls have discovered after running afoul of poison ivy).
There's nothing morally wrong with any of this, but it most definitely constitutes the use of poison.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2021-03-10, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Why, thank you! Achieving something in life always feels good.
but if you think plants don't "use" poison, you are using the word "use" in a very unusual way.
From Dictionary.com, the definition of "use":
verb (used with object), used, us·ing.
1. to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife.
2. to avail oneself of; apply to one's own purposes: to use the facilities.
3. to expend or consume in use: We have used the money provided.
4. to treat or behave toward: He did not use his employees with much consideration.
Plants employ poison for a purpose, availing themselves of it, applying it to the purpose of staying alive. This process expends or consumes some of the poison they store in their bodies. This is, in fact, how many of them treat or behave toward creatures that attempt to eat or damage them (or sometimes just come into contact with them, as many unfortunate souls have discovered after running afoul of poison ivy).
There's nothing morally wrong with any of this
that's more than enough for me in and on itself, so I will not continue to press the issue.
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2021-03-10, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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Re: Serini is definitely Good because...
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2