Slasher vs Sentinel

[Witty Username]

I had a thought that slasher could work as a poor man's sentinel if you need a half-feat and want the crit effect. Both have synergy with PAM, if you are using a halberd and the slow can be applied proactively, on the downside speed 0 is better than reduce by 10 ft.
I expect sentinel is better but not so much better that slasher is not worth considering. My guess is if enemies disengage a lot or you are more worried about allies being attacked sentinel is better. Slasher is, if you need a half feat, want more chances to apply the slow, and it may have some utility against multiple opponents.

What are your thoughts?

[Kylar0990]

I had a thought that slasher could work as a poor man's sentinel if you need a half-feat and want the crit effect. Both have synergy with PAM, if you are using a halberd and the slow can be applied proactively, on the downside speed 0 is better than reduce by 10 ft.
I expect sentinel is better but not so much better that slasher is not worth considering. My guess is if enemies disengage a lot or you are more worried about allies being attacked sentinel is better. Slasher is, if you need a half feat, want more chances to apply the slow, and it may have some utility against multiple opponents.

What are your thoughts?

With Slasher any enemy you hit with your main attack loses 10 feet of movement and any time you manage to crit they have disadvantage on their attacks until your next turn. If you are using a glaive or halberd and PAM, your bonus action attack with the butt of the weapon does bludgeoning damage so it only your main attacks that will be slashing damage.

Sentinel only drops the speed to 0 of one enemy hit by you with an AoO. While that is great at locking one enemy in place, it won't help you hold the line with multiple enemies. An enemy with in 5 feet of you attacks someone else it lets you take an attack as a reaction against them, but this attack isn't an AoO so it won't drop their speed and you have already used your reactions so you won't get an AoO if they move.

In some ways it comes down to what do yo want it to do, and if you need the +1 to Str you can get from Slasher or not.

[Nidgit]

Feels like the Slasher feat is only better in specific situations. If you're making a lot of slashing attacks against multiple enemies mainly, which means it could be good for TWF characters or maybe like Horizon Walkers. Maybe a Samurai with Mobile or something too.

[LudicSavant]

I had a thought that slasher could work as a poor man's sentinel if you need a half-feat and want the crit effect. Both have synergy with PAM, if you are using a halberd and the slow can be applied proactively, on the downside speed 0 is better than reduce by 10 ft.
I expect sentinel is better but not so much better that slasher is not worth considering. My guess is if enemies disengage a lot or you are more worried about allies being attacked sentinel is better. Slasher is, if you need a half feat, want more chances to apply the slow, and it may have some utility against multiple opponents.

What are your thoughts?

There are important differences.

Sentinel demands reactions, and is limited to a single foe triggering your OA or hitting an adjacent ally — a bullet point that obviously depends on your party composition and strategy, as well as your build’s competition for reactions.

Sentinel also needs accuracy: miss that OA and you aren’t controlling anything.

Slasher is ASI-efficient because it bumps a primary stat, and while the CC effect is weaker it has a higher chance of applying, can affect multiple foes, and doesn’t demand reactions. It also synergizes with a good critrate and AC (for you and party members).

As with many things, the answer to what is best is “it depends on your party / build situation.”

[Granitecosmos]

I never found Slasher an attractive feat since as far as I see the text explicitly limits the speed debuff to happen once per turn only (correct me if I'm mistaken), and crit effects are very low on my rating list due to low chance and total reliance on RNG. Even with advantage you're looking at only a 9,75% chance for a crit. Unless your build is already a crit-fishing one (Elven Accuracy, Champion), you're looking at an approximately 50% chance to inflict that debuff after two rounds while being a level 11 Fighter and having free advantage all the time. Sure, it's just a half-feat so it might seem like you're getting good value out of it but you might already have better tools for achieving the same results at your disposal.

Sentinel is much more useful, unless you have multiple abilities contesting your reactions. It works best with another frontline ally; it has a taunt effect which is great when you're the better tank, not so much when you're not.

Personally, I would take neither and simply use grappling and shoving to achieve the same effect without sacrificing an ASI, at least when I'm playing a STR build. Just shoving someone prone will waste half their speed; that tends to be more than 10ft. Sure, you didn't do damage with that attack specifically; but wait, you and your buddies will get advantage in melee until the target's next turn! You have ranged allies? No problem; grapple instead and now the target has zero speed until it starts wasting its turns to break free. Huge and gargantuan enemies are immune to this tactic (unless someone, including yourself, casts Enlarge on you, and/or you're a Rune Knight).

[stoutstien]

Slasher is very nice if your party utilizes any other form of speed reduction like difficult terrain or prone. Two effects is usually enough to have a soft lockdown on enemies. Even with two attacks shove/attack (slasher) can take a npc with a speed of 60 down to a point your 30 speed allies can keep out of reach. Really strong "hit me because you don't have much choice" energy

Sentinel has very strong synergy with Polearm master and can be very potent control. Downfall is having a lot riding on hitting with that reaction attack or AOO. Sentinel also procs after the enemies have attacked your ally. It's a good feat for the secondary frontliner who isn't necessarily trying to draw attacks but isn't bothered by the occasional one.

[da newt]

In practice I find Sentinel to come into play maybe 1 in 3 rounds of combat even if I make a point of trying to set it up (on a PC with PAM/glaive).

When I can land the Op Att and keep a foe out of melee range for a turn, or keep a foe from moving to a squishier target, it is quite impactful, but that doesn't happen very often.

[Jerrykhor]

I don't see how the two can be compared. Slasher is not good enough if you're looking for optimization, its at least 2 tiers below Sentinel. 10ft speed is insignificant.

[LudicSavant]

I don't see how the two can be compared. Slasher is not good enough if you're looking for optimization, its at least 2 tiers below Sentinel. 10ft speed is insignificant.

It can be compared because it’s a half feat.

Longer answer:
- It’s a half feat, and bumping a primary stat is sometimes better than Sentinel all on its own. This is of course the biggest reason.
- You can get your “chance of at least one crit in a turn” chance up pretty high via multiple attacks.
- The speed reduction is lower, but more reliable than Sentinel’s (since it’s not all riding on a single attack, and cannot be avoided by things that ignore OAs).
- it leaves your reaction free if you need it.
- 10 feet is enough for your back line to kite some creatures on its own. It also stacks with other things, like if there’s an Eldritch Blaster on the team, or a shadow summoner, or a (etc). Bits of reliable CC can add up quick.
- it impacts base speed, which means it applies multiple times to some foes (with bonus dashes, etc).

[stoutstien]

I don't see how the two can be compared. Slasher is not good enough if you're looking for optimization, its at least 2 tiers below Sentinel. 10ft speed is insignificant.

LudicSavant covered most of it but to add to the comparison slasher augments your attacks where sentinel adds additional action options and only augments AOOs.

In a lot of ways Slasher is more impactful in actively controlling your enemies options where sentinel is focused on adding negative consequences for certain choices.

If the npc doesn't have the ability to reach your allies 5ft might as well be 50ft.

Sentinel is actually pretty difficult to optimize for because each choice you add to it has its own issues to contend with. With a weapon with reach you give the enemies more room to move around freely without provoking the AOO or reaction attack and without a reach weapon the zone of control is small enough to be avoided. It gets worse is NPCs can utilize Force movement, either against the PC or themselves, to negate the entire feat. Then once you start seeing lots of NPCs with reach themselves the speed penalty gets harder to land and is less likely to prevent them from attack who they want. In order to get a lot of sentinel you have to either investment in another non-half feat or be one of a handful of subclass options that can cover the weak points in the feat.

By itself sentinel is a better feat for someone looking to be better at dealing damage with a splash of control than someone looking for a cornerstone for being the frontline with a big hit me sign.

[Garimeth]

I feel like there are better half feats, personally. I'm not a huge fan of on crit things myself, but it could be good for certain builds.

I would rather set myself up to be able to split an ASI and raise two stats than take slasher, and even though its effect is very different, I'd rather take Heavy Armor Master for a half-feat than slasher. Hell, I'd rather take Tavern Brawler than slasher.

[x3n0n]

I feel like there are better half feats, personally. I'm not a huge fan of on crit things myself, but it could be good for certain builds.

I would rather set myself up to be able to split an ASI and raise two stats than take slasher, and even though its effect is very different, I'd rather take Heavy Armor Master for a half-feat than slasher. Hell, I'd rather take Tavern Brawler than slasher.

If there were a good ranged slashing weapon, I'd like it a lot more.

As it is, I can see it as a reasonably good choice for whip users: maybe a Kensei or a Dex Paladin. As mentioned above, bonus points for any other speed reducers, prone effects, and/or difficult terrain effects in the party. I think I saw a Tasha's build sketch for a whip-wielding Paladin with Spirit Shroud and Slasher--that feels like a nice combo. Maybe Vengeance and Elven Accuracy to double down on the crit effect? (Two half-ASI feats on a race without a starting feat is kind of a big ask, though.)

If you already have potent melee defenses, it's potentially 2 slow effects in a round: one on your turn, one with a reaction attack. How much fun is this on a Cavalier at 17?

Edit: nevermind, the Cavalier already has the Sentinel-like move 0 rider.

[Garimeth]

If there were a good ranged slashing weapon, I'd like it a lot more.

As it is, I can see it as a reasonably good choice for whip users: maybe a Kensei or a Dex Paladin. As mentioned above, bonus points for any other speed reducers, prone effects, and/or difficult terrain effects in the party. I think I saw a Tasha's build sketch for a whip-wielding Paladin with Spirit Shroud and Slasher--that feels like a nice combo. Maybe Vengeance and Elven Accuracy to double down on the crit effect? (Two half-ASI feats on a race without a starting feat is kind of a big ask, though.)

If you already have potent melee defenses, it's potentially 2 slow effects in a round: one on your turn, one with a reaction attack. How much fun is this on a Cavalier at 17?

Edit: nevermind, the Cavalier already has the Sentinel-like move 0 rider.

The effect (the slow) is good, I just personally do not like relying on RNG to proc something if I could instead have an activated effect. Its a playstyle thing. Imagine if you were playing a spellcaster and each round there was a "chance" you could cast a non-cantrip. No way in hell I'd ever play that lol.

[x3n0n]

The effect (the slow) is good, I just personally do not like relying on RNG to proc something if I could instead have an activated effect. Its a playstyle thing. Imagine if you were playing a spellcaster and each round there was a "chance" you could cast a non-cantrip. No way in hell I'd ever play that lol.

Just to clarify: do you mean the crit rider is not worth much on the average character? In that case, I agree!

I would definitely only take this if I was looking for the half-ASI plus the slow effect. The crit rider is an awesome bonus when it happens, and if I were building something that wanted Elven Accuracy and/or Hexblade anyway, I would count that in favor of taking the feat, but I would not do it in the other direction; that is, I wouldn't take the feat on an "average" character and then assume that the crit was going to happen often enough to be relevant, nor would I *then* start building toward crit frequency.

[Garimeth]

Just to clarify: do you mean the crit rider is not worth much on the average character? In that case, I agree!

I would definitely only take this if I was looking for the half-ASI plus the slow effect. The crit rider is an awesome bonus when it happens, and if I were building something that wanted Elven Accuracy and/or Hexblade anyway, I would count that in favor of taking the feat, but I would not do it in the other direction; that is, I wouldn't take the feat on an "average" character and then assume that the crit was going to happen often enough to be relevant, nor would I *then* start building toward crit frequency.

Yeah I don't think I expressed myself well, lol. We are in agreement.

[Witty Username]

Just to clarify: do you mean the crit rider is not worth much on the average character? In that case, I agree!

I would definitely only take this if I was looking for the half-ASI plus the slow effect. The crit rider is an awesome bonus when it happens, and if I were building something that wanted Elven Accuracy and/or Hexblade anyway, I would count that in favor of taking the feat, but I would not do it in the other direction; that is, I wouldn't take the feat on an "average" character and then assume that the crit was going to happen often enough to be relevant, nor would I *then* start building toward crit frequency.

I would argee with this, the crit effect isn't the draw but if you want a slow effect and happen to already care about crit then it is a bonus.

[jojosskul]

Slasher combined with Shield Master could be quite effective. Variant Human Fighter (or Barbarian, or Paladin, or anything that gets multiattack and uses slashing weapons and can use a shield honestly) with Shield Master and a 17 str takes Slasher at 4. Starting at level 5, first attack slow 10 ft, knock prone with shield master, then second attack. Most enemies stand up with 10 ft of movement left and you still get both of your attacks in. Could work well.

[Nidgit]

Slasher combined with Shield Master could be quite effective. Variant Human Fighter (or Barbarian, or Paladin, or anything that gets multiattack and uses slashing weapons and can use a shield honestly) with Shield Master and a 17 str takes Slasher at 4. Starting at level 5, first attack slow 10 ft, knock prone with shield master, then second attack. Most enemies stand up with 10 ft of movement left and you still get both of your attacks in. Could work well.

Paladin likes this a lot. Stacking Slasher with Spirit Shroud makes a Paladin extremely sticky, particularly if you're knocking enemies prone as well.

Side note, because I wasn't able to find a definitive ruling: do things like Slasher, Spirit Shroud, and Ray of Frost mean that a prone character uses less total movement to get up? All reduce speed by 10, so would a character with normally 30 ft of movement affected by one of these need 10 ft to get up and have 10 left, or need 15 ft to get up and have 5 left?

[stoutstien]

Paladin likes this a lot. Stacking Slasher with Spirit Shroud makes a Paladin extremely sticky, particularly if you're knocking enemies prone as well.

Side note, because I wasn't able to find a definitive ruling: do things like Slasher, Spirit Shroud, and Ray of Frost mean that a prone character uses less total movement to get up? All reduce speed by 10, so would a character with normally 30 ft of movement affected by one of these need 10 ft to get up and have 10 left, or need 15 ft to get up and have 5 left?

It's half your speed what ever it may be at that moment. Unless it's 0 of course.

[Frogreaver]

Sentinel is build defining for its niche.
Slasher is solid but fairly generic.

Both are good.

[DaFlipp]

I've been pondering Slasher on a future character, and had a question I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere (most likely due to poor googling skills on my behalf): Can someone's speed be reduced from multiple sources? For example, if an enemy with a move speed of 30 feet got hit by Slasher *and* by Ray of Frost, would the enemy's move be reduced to 20 ft or 10 ft? Does it matter whether the reductions come from the same source (i.e. would it work better than just two Rays of Frost)?

[stoutstien]

I've been pondering Slasher on a future character, and had a question I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere (most likely due to poor googling skills on my behalf): Can someone's speed be reduced from multiple sources? For example, if an enemy with a move speed of 30 feet got hit by Slasher *and* by Ray of Frost, would the enemy's move be reduced to 20 ft or 10 ft? Does it matter whether the reductions come from the same source (i.e. would it work better than just two Rays of Frost)?

As long as the sources are different you can stack speed reduction until 0.