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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DataNinja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Takedus View Post
    Ah, action economy, eh? If this were a primarily PvP setting, I would argue that Pokemon will outscale combat trainers as far as stats and abilities go (and thus would effectively be doing more with their one action than a combat trainer could do with their own), but that doesnt actually help support trainers themselves feel like they have agency in a full contact situation.
    It's the other way around. A full extra action for a Move is immensely more powerful in most cases than anything besides the most CS-stacking classes. ...and most of the good ones, like Ace Trainer, are passive and so cost nothing for a Combat Trainer to also take.

    On average, a Support class will add ~20-30% damage, or roughly equivalent thereof. So a combat trainer blows that out of the water, even if they're half as strong as a Pokémon with their action. The only things that can match that are classes that can gain action economy boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    I think the only trainer class I know of that can directly outmatch a pokemon is the Berserker with the right secondary build (like Steelheart.)
    Tumbler and Martial Artist are also ridiculous. Tumbler gets extra turns + Dodge and evasion tanking (plus being able to use the Dodge Trainer Feature better), and Reckless Martial Artist is... frankly broken, because it negates all the downsides of their recoil moves, while being *massively* out of scale with the power everything gets.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime12 View Post
    Lol nope. I forgot that sandstorm was a Rock type move. Thank you for letting me know.
    ...yeah, Ground Ace unfortunately is, uh, not a great early class. Since it needs Groundshaper, and *so* few early things have that.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  2. - Top - End - #32
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    ...yeah, Ground Ace unfortunately is, uh, not a great early class. Since it needs Groundshaper, and *so* few early things have that.
    That's true and I did notice that. Ground type just felt like a fun type to go with for a girl who grew up in the desert. I'm not horribly worried about the mechanics, and actually now that you mention it I'm not sure my starter pokémon ever gets Groundshaper lol. I think my other classes will probably keep me from feeling too worried about Ground Ace's early game shortcomings.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    Volt- so I've been thinking, and while I am largely going to keep Loft as is and take my chances, I'm going to alter one of his MA moves to acupressure and a basic skill to medicine edu in order to set up Loft taking Nurse features and edges as tertiary skills until he can qualify for the "big league" Aura guardian powers much later Down the road.

    It seems in keeping with his character and gives him non combative powers.
    Sure, makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime12 View Post
    Lol nope. I forgot that sandstorm was a Rock type move. Thank you for letting me know.
    Ground and Rock types can be awkward like that with how much they get the other type's moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime12 View Post
    That's true and I did notice that. Ground type just felt like a fun type to go with for a girl who grew up in the desert. I'm not horribly worried about the mechanics, and actually now that you mention it I'm not sure my starter pokémon ever gets Groundshaper lol. I think my other classes will probably keep me from feeling too worried about Ground Ace's early game shortcomings.
    Numel learns Magnitude at level 12, which grants Groundshaper, so you're alright in that regard, at least.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I'll just sneak some interest in here before I forget. Still thinking of ideas, but currently thinking of going for the youngest member of the family in a whole bunch of super successful Trainers who doesn't really want to follow in their footsteps.
    "Follow the moonwalking Nosepass!"
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    It's the other way around. A full extra action for a Move is immensely more powerful in most cases than anything besides the most CS-stacking classes. ...and most of the good ones, like Ace Trainer, are passive and so cost nothing for a Combat Trainer to also take.

    On average, a Support class will add ~20-30% damage, or roughly equivalent thereof. So a combat trainer blows that out of the water, even if they're half as strong as a Pokémon with their action. The only things that can match that are classes that can gain action economy boosts.



    Tumbler and Martial Artist are also ridiculous. Tumbler gets extra turns + Dodge and evasion tanking (plus being able to use the Dodge Trainer Feature better), and Reckless Martial Artist is... frankly broken, because it negates all the downsides of their recoil moves, while being *massively* out of scale with the power everything gets.



    ...yeah, Ground Ace unfortunately is, uh, not a great early class. Since it needs Groundshaper, and *so* few early things have that.
    I was actually referring to a 1 v 1 scenario between a combat trainer without any pokemon and a pokemon, though that may not always be relevant.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Takedus View Post
    I was actually referring to a 1 v 1 scenario between a combat trainer without any pokemon and a pokemon, though that may not always be relevant.
    Ah. That's a scenario... unlikely to come up, given that Pokémon are the bulk of your character in a Pokémon game.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  7. - Top - End - #37
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    And then there's Normal Ace, which can get pretty crazy if done well.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinro View Post
    And then there's Normal Ace, which can get pretty crazy if done well.
    It's mostly particularly potent early, before things start getting powerful Typed moves.

    In the end, Maximum Damage can't keep up with the sheer potential of Type Effectiveness, and so it becomes more of a stopgap than anything else. Since coverage is fairly easy, a lot of the time in late game (unless you're someone like Lilligant).
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I'm currently working on an Ace trainer/Telekinetic with a numel.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Doesn't it, though? Take a big, end game 12 DB attack. It will use an average of 30 damage for the not-normal if they're going off-STAB to catch type effectiveness and a constant 55 for the normal, since they're guaranteed STAB. Let's assume equal attack and defense. The not-normal will do 45 damage average, while the normal does 55. If, instead, the attack is lagging, then the not-normal will see their damage start to lag significantly, since the multiplier comes at the end. If fact, if the defenses are high enough, the normal can even be more effective if it's resisted, since it's better able to 'punch through' before multipliers come into effect.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinro View Post
    Doesn't it, though? Take a big, end game 12 DB attack. It will use an average of 30 damage for the not-normal if they're going off-STAB to catch type effectiveness and a constant 55 for the normal, since they're guaranteed STAB. Let's assume equal attack and defense. The not-normal will do 45 damage average, while the normal does 55. If, instead, the attack is lagging, then the not-normal will see their damage start to lag significantly, since the multiplier comes at the end. If fact, if the defenses are high enough, the normal can even be more effective if it's resisted, since it's better able to 'punch through' before multipliers come into effect.
    The problem is assuming equal attacks and defense, because investing in defense is unfortunately rarely worth it. Certainly not to the same degree as attacks. You only have a 50-50 shot of picking the right defense, and if you've invested enough into both of your defenses, your attacks are going to be unfortunately not particularly useful (or else they won't be high enough to block a single-stat attacker much). It's a flaw in the system, where HP and attacks are incentivised most, in order to actually end up being effective.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    If you're skimping on evasion like that, doesn't that just make you even more vulnerable to those high powered, low AC attacks compared to someone who went HP-Speed-attack or defenseX2-attack?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    It does, but very rarely will you have no evasion, especially since Abilities and Features can give a lot more. But this is why Pokémon Odyssey's math is being designed from the ground up, because... the numbers just don't work in PTU. Investing enough in defense to make it worth it leaves you toothless. Anything in speed above evasion cap is wasted if your opponent has any less speed than you. HP is better than defenses until you mange to get to a point to take 3 hits and survive - something that's difficult to do with the math.

    Anyways, circling back around to the original point: that's not to say Normal Ace is a bad feature, but it's only really strong in the early game, and is more needed to catch up in the late game, and even then less than ideal circumstances can make it underwhelming with how PTU math shakes out. Once being able to force high DB out of situational moves stops being overwhelming, anyways.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I've definitely been intrigued by the upcoming design and look forward to seeing what comes out of it.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    All right here is Derek Vaile, the Coming Storm! I went with a Duelist, Electric Ace, Ace Trainer. Very focused on 1v1 battles, speed, and building up momentum to get stronger and tougher every round.

    Out of curiosity are there any more details on the setting? Are we using an existing region or a custom one?
    "Facilis Descensus Averni." - Virgil, The Aeneid

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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by GameOfChampions View Post
    Out of curiosity are there any more details on the setting? Are we using an existing region or a custom one?
    Custom region. I've been working on it, just been a little slow for the last day or two, but I'll have a map and summaries of the key locations soon.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Volthawk View Post
    Custom region. I've been working on it, just been a little slow for the last day or two, but I'll have a map and summaries of the key locations soon.
    Awesome! I'll hold off on a detailed backstory until then. Try to work in some region details into it.
    "Facilis Descensus Averni." - Virgil, The Aeneid

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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Esprit15's Avatar

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Maybe I missed it somewhere. What region are we in? Ah, just missed it. Do we have a general pitch, or is this a classic To Be a Master story?
    Last edited by Esprit15; 2021-03-04 at 10:26 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I'd be interested! I'll probably either go Grass Ace or just some combination of Trickster, Chef, Coordinator... Thinking Budew or Gulpin as a starter (though Turtwig's line is just so hilariously, outrageously overpowered in PTU 1v1s, especially for an Ace Trainer, and an iconic starter to boot...)

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by GameOfChampions View Post
    Awesome! I'll hold off on a detailed backstory until then. Try to work in some region details into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esprit15 View Post
    Maybe I missed it somewhere. What region are we in? Ah, just missed it. Do we have a general pitch, or is this a classic To Be a Master story?
    Region update: Map done, got a general idea of what the deal with places are, currently writing summaries of said general concept for people to use if they like, and tackling the most daunting part for me - naming all these bloody locations (I am terrible at names).

    Storywise, yeah, more or less clasic setup - get out there, challenge Gyms, get involved in some kind of Team-based plot (still working on that), get in adventures along the way, maybe some background-based stuff depending on what people end up doing for characters, that kind of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddywagon Man View Post
    I'd be interested! I'll probably either go Grass Ace or just some combination of Trickster, Chef, Coordinator... Thinking Budew or Gulpin as a starter (though Turtwig's line is just so hilariously, outrageously overpowered in PTU 1v1s, especially for an Ace Trainer, and an iconic starter to boot...)
    On Coordinator, note that I'm not planning on contests being a thing. PTU's contest mechanics are kinda awful and to my knowledge there hasn't been a good fix for them yet.


    Also, made a table of applicants and what's been said concept-wise on the thread. Will keep the version in the OP updated, lemme know if I missed something.
    Player Character Classes Starter
    Ser Takedus Druid?
    Alteiner
    Thunder999 Ace Trainer/Telekinetic Numel
    TeaTime12 Summer Ground Ace/Fashionista/Researcher Numel
    Kinro Kei Ace Trainer/Speed Ace Cubone
    tonberryking Loft Martial Artist/Aura Guardian Starter
    GameOfChampions Derek Vaile Electric Ace/Duelist/Ace Trainer Joltik
    Llyarden
    Esprit15
    Paddywagon Man Grass Ace or Trickster/Chef Gulpin/Turtwig
    Last edited by Volthawk; 2021-03-05 at 03:36 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Ah, that's my bad. Coordinator's pretty awesome in the Editation, I forgot we aren't using that. Scrap Coordinator, Chef or Trickster definitely still on the table.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    DataNinja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddywagon Man View Post
    I'd be interested! I'll probably either go Grass Ace or just some combination of Trickster, Chef, Coordinator... Thinking Budew or Gulpin as a starter (though Turtwig's line is just so hilariously, outrageously overpowered in PTU 1v1s, especially for an Ace Trainer, and an iconic starter to boot...)
    Well, PTU kinda breaks down in 1v1s in general. There are certain things that just... literally do not work, so... there's a reason we emphasise that it's not at all what the system should be used for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volthawk View Post
    PTU's constest mechanics are kinda awful and to my knowledge there hasn't been a good fix for them yet.
    Yeeeeeeeep. Nobody was ever able to make good contest mechanics, despite full invitations for literally anyone to come forth with them. In the world where we actually ended up making a new PTU edition, contests would have been one of the first things axed.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Oh, Dataninja! You did the homebrew dexes, no? Thanks for all your excellent work!

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Volthawk View Post
    Region update: Map done, got a general idea of what the deal with places are, currently writing summaries of said general concept for people to use if they like, and tackling the most daunting part for me - naming all these bloody locations (I am terrible at names).

    Storywise, yeah, more or less clasic setup - get out there, challenge Gyms, get involved in some kind of Team-based plot (still working on that), get in adventures along the way, maybe some background-based stuff depending on what people end up doing for characters, that kind of thing.
    Great! I can't wait.
    "Facilis Descensus Averni." - Virgil, The Aeneid

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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I’ve got a Commander/Provocateur that I’m working on, starting with a Machop. Just waiting on that setting info.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddywagon Man View Post
    Oh, Dataninja! You did the homebrew dexes, no? Thanks for all your excellent work!
    Quite possibly. I have done a lot of homebrew 'Dexes (a readjustment of Gens 1-8, Sage, Uranium, Insurgence, random type-shifts, plus some oddball stuff like Slime Rancher), but I don't know if they were the ones you're talking about.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    I actually remember your name from one of the live PTU Discord servers, and I believe I saw you on the main Pokemon Tabletop server as well.

    Anyhow, as far as the campaign goes, here is a link to my character sheet which is still a work in progress; how money would you as GM suggest we hold back? EDIT: Also is it possible to start with an arcane weapon as part of the background, specifically a Crude Spellbook of some kind?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t?usp=drivesdk
    Last edited by Ser Takedus; 2021-03-06 at 03:22 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Takedus View Post
    I actually remember your name from one of the live PTU Discord servers, and I believe I saw you on the main Pokemon Tabletop server as well.
    You probably did, yeah, given I'm fairly active there, and I dev for the system.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

    01001110011001010111001001100100

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Wow I'm an idiot. I didn't see the region stuff under the table.

    I'll finish up my character now.
    "Facilis Descensus Averni." - Virgil, The Aeneid

    “Why would I want to win anything other than a beautiful game?” - Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear


  30. - Top - End - #60
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Recruiting for PTU

    Quote Originally Posted by GameOfChampions View Post
    Wow I'm an idiot. I didn't see the region stuff under the table.

    I'll finish up my character now.
    I am writing more fluff, the weekend just..wasn't great, let's say, and it's impacted my writing speed/ability.

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