New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    "Warlock is a dip class, yadda yadda yadda"
    How about this change:
    When you gain a new level in the Warlock class, you can swap all invocations and choose new ones.

    It would make invocations work more as "prepared spells" (though with a lower speed of change) and less as "known spells". It would allow for Warlock players to experiment more with all the different invocations (the limited number of invocations is a problem that's compounded every time Wizards release new invocations). It would encourage people staying as Warlocks instead of just using them as dips.

    It's a definite upgrade; but is it more of a quality-of-life upgrade (less stressing about which invocation to choose when, more fun with the different invocations), or is it a munchkin upgrade?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2014

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    Personal opinion is that Warlocks are a great class for dipping or staying in. Some builds are stringent and do not allow much deviation to be viable, so keep take that into consideration. I really haven't seen a whole lot of people who multiclass in my groups other than myself. I think the majority (could be biased here) tend to stay single classed on everything but concept characters.

    As for the invocation house rule you are suggesting, Tasha's released the Eldritch Versatility optional class feature, which allows the swap of a single cantrip, as well as the change of the pact boon feature (and any attached invocations). So this is the next logical step in terms of versatility. The precedent for this suggested mechanic also exists in the Eldritch Adept feat which allows you to swap the granted invocation each level.

    In short, I can't really say this is breaking anything, and could be a fun way to boost the warlock's relevancy at the table. It's a solid idea. I say run with it and see what happens. It's a house rule, so the player(s) can't really abuse it without you altering it later on.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    I'm not really sure what your intentions are here, honestly.

    The ability to swap would be nice, of course, but since you can only do that on a level up, you'd probably not change your invocations much, if at all. I mean, a Wizard/Clerc/Druid can reasonably guess what they'll face on the adventuring day, so they choose spells accordingly. But guessing your needs for an entire level is just absurd, which means you'll likely stick to the generally-good invocations instead of getting something niche.

    Warlocks do need some minor quality-of-life buffs, but I don't think this is it. Giving them an extra Cantrip and making the 1/long rest invocations (like Sculptor of Flesh) work without spending a spell would be closer, as Warlocks would now have access to some Long Rest resources for when they really need to nova.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Gale's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    This change would give Warlocks slightly faster access to invocations with level requirements. But I don't think this is too much of an issue.

    However, I personally feel that a player's decision making when building their character should matter. I want people to think about which options they genuinely want for their character overall, rather than what seems cool right now. Especially since these choices are often representative of your character's identity. The invocations you choose are what makes the warlock you build uniquely yours. If every Warlock can swap them around at will then it makes each one less special. It's similar to the issue of "Why does every Warlock have Eldritch Blast?" except arguably worse.

    Warlocks can already change out a single invocation each level, and I think that's enough in most cases. I would prefer players plan ahead for what kind of character they want, rather than make sweeping changes every level.
    Last edited by Gale; 2021-03-01 at 03:01 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    If you're worried about it being overpowered why not tack it onto the Eldritch Versatility optional rule? When you get an ASI you can swap out any invocation for any that you meet the prerequisites for. Fighters get a similar thing for fighting style ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    As a single classed warlock enthusiast, I would really love that house rule. It would allow you to truly customize your character to your current campaign. And lead to fewer EB spams.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    I have not play tested it yet, but in my next campaign I will let let warlocks change one invocation if they spend an entire long rest meditating/sacrificing and practicing. They do not recover hit points or dice since they are occupied.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyfuel View Post
    I'm not really sure what your intentions are here, honestly.

    The ability to swap would be nice, of course, but since you can only do that on a level up, you'd probably not change your invocations much, if at all. I mean, a Wizard/Clerc/Druid can reasonably guess what they'll face on the adventuring day, so they choose spells accordingly. But guessing your needs for an entire level is just absurd, which means you'll likely stick to the generally-good invocations instead of getting something niche.

    Warlocks do need some minor quality-of-life buffs, but I don't think this is it. Giving them an extra Cantrip and making the 1/long rest invocations (like Sculptor of Flesh) work without spending a spell would be closer, as Warlocks would now have access to some Long Rest resources for when they really need to nova.
    I had this idea reading some published adventures; it's quite common to have a 1 level=1 chapter, and many times players can have some vague idea of what challenges the next chapter will have, whether it will be more combat-focused, socially-focused, or exploration-focused. So they could customize their invocations accordingly. Sure, things like Agonizing Blast would remain, but maybe it's better to have Mask of Many Faces than Repelling Blast for some Chapters, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gale View Post
    This change would give Warlocks slightly faster access to invocations with level requirements. But I don't think this is too much of an issue.

    However, I personally feel that a player's decision making when building their character should matter. I want people to think about which options they genuinely want for their character overall, rather than what seems cool right now. Especially since these choices are often representative of your character's identity. The invocations you choose are what makes the warlock you build uniquely yours. If every Warlock can swap them around at will then it makes each one less special. It's similar to the issue of "Why does every Warlock have Eldritch Blast?" except arguably worse.

    Warlocks can already change out a single invocation each level, and I think that's enough in most cases. I would prefer players plan ahead for what kind of character they want, rather than make sweeping changes every level.
    This I disagree; it may be because I tend to play long campaigns, and being able to better customize my character to different challenges is a very good thing. Furthermore, as I've mentioned, it's still more restrictive than spell prepared casters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlush View Post
    As a single classed warlock enthusiast, I would really love that house rule. It would allow you to truly customize your character to your current campaign. And lead to fewer EB spams.
    Exactly! That's the main reason I thought of it too.Check the example I gave of giving up Repelling Blast for Mask of Many Faces for a socially-focused "chapter". You'd be more reluctant to do it if it's difficult to switch it back later, and so you'd stick to the "true-and-tried" invocations, which lead to EB spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    If you're worried about it being overpowered why not tack it onto the Eldritch Versatility optional rule? When you get an ASI you can swap out any invocation for any that you meet the prerequisites for. Fighters get a similar thing for fighting style ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    While an interesting suggestion, I think once every 4 levels is too slow to accomplish the greater variety of play I'm aiming for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaltman View Post
    I have not play tested it yet, but in my next campaign I will let let warlocks change one invocation if they spend an entire long rest meditating/sacrificing and practicing. They do not recover hit points or dice since they are occupied.
    I like this too, it's basically "you can switch your invocations during downtime"; how useful it will be will depend on how frequent downtime is, I suppose.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post

    I like this too, it's basically "you can switch your invocations during downtime"; how useful it will be will depend on how frequent downtime is, I suppose.
    Still at a cost (potentially needed healing) and only 1 x per rest. Gradual evolution not instant change. Like you I wanted to give a little more flexibility without breaking the class.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaltman View Post
    Still at a cost (potentially needed healing) and only 1 x per rest. Gradual evolution not instant change. Like you I wanted to give a little more flexibility without breaking the class.
    I like this. Making invocations more flexible strikes me as value added, since clerics and wizards can change their spells overnight as well ...
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I like this. Making invocations more flexible strikes me as value added, since clerics and wizards can change their spells overnight as well ...
    Exactly; having at most 8 invocations was alright with just the PHB options; but as more and more invocations get published, the thought of having them mostly unused bothers me enormously; a faster switching rate would see more use of the more niche invocations.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2017

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    I feel this is a quality of life boost. There are so many invocations that are fairly niche, or that you think you would use but you haven't. I took Misty Visionsa while back on my Feylock, and never used it once. So, when we hit level 9 and I had more access to things, I decided to drop it for something we have been needing every single session instead.

    Am I more powerful? Yes, but only because I no longer have a dead ability. It doesn't really raise the overall power of the class at all, just lets you evolve your character faster into their new concepts.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Houserule: what if Warlocks could replace all invocations on level up?

    This is a definite QoL shift. Normally you can change 1 (2, if you count the new invocs on those levels) on a level up; this gives you the full sweep.

    I'd be willing to test this or the Long Rest changeover, if I can get another Warlock playing.
    Why yes, Warlock is my solution for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by obryn View Post
    Active Abilities are great because you - the player - are demonstrating your Dwarvenness or Elfishness. You're not passively a dwarf, you're actively dwarfing your way through obstacles.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •