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2021-03-02, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
The new Quick Vestige List
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2021-03-02, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
While I like the idea of the faster access time, in practice it's pretty rare to ever be retrieving something in combat. Even when I played an alchemist-type, and had a whole selection of alchemical stuff to throw, it became very niche after the first few levels, and usually even if I was using it I'd take it out in advance so my Unseen Servant could hand it to me as needed.
The low weight is nice though, and sometimes it's logistically difficult to use a Portable Hole (no flat surface to spread it out, for example, or trying to retrieve something while moving), so I find a HHH+PH (or Enveloping Pit) combo to be a good mix once it's affordable.Last edited by icefractal; 2021-03-02 at 04:23 PM.
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2021-03-02, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
As someone who carried a pack in the Airborne Infantry, that's about the average load for an approach march.
A 2017 Government Accountability Office report identified Marine loads of 90 to 159 pounds, with an average of 117 pounds, and Army loads of 96 to 140 pounds, with an average of 119 pounds.
On the way to the plane with 50lbs of parachute and reserve on top of that, I was in the 'stagger at 5'/rnd' category on flat asphalt, and be physically incapable of walking up the ramp into the back of the plane unassisted.
You drop your pack when you roll initiative - for the movement speed if nothing else. And yes, that occasionally leads to shenanigans where someone tries to make off with it, or you need something in it and you left it 180' thataway.
IRL, Army packs have quick releases on the shoulder straps. And you never use the kidney belt, just let the pad ride on your web belt as a substitute. Pull 2 tabs and your pack is gone.
See here for more.
https://www.cnas.org/publications/re...s-heavy-load-1
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2021-03-02, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
After reading this thread I have to ask, does any one know what a bag of holding looks like and how it is held?
Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size.
The smart thing is to combine them like you can in 3.5, at least as far as I am aware. Carry the haversack, put a bag of holding in the large space so you can leave the smaller spaces for quick access things like potions or some such and pull out the BoH for when you need a mule.
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2021-03-02, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
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2021-03-02, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
The new Quick Vestige List
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2021-03-03, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
Personally I issue one haversack to each adventurer at level 1, for free, not counting against WBL. Encumbrance for every fiddly little thing is annoying to track, and it slows down the game. ("Okay, who has room to carry anything? Fighter's already carrying 300 pounds of gear... wait, which of that stuff is yours?") Not tracking it at all wrecks suspension of disbelief. Giving everybody a semi-plausible magical hammerspace (at least for basic stuff) is the best compromise I can think of.
So, no, not overpriced at 2000gp.
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2021-03-03, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
Can I get some numbers on the enveloping pit while you're at it, just for the sake of curiosity? Granted, it's intended to be used as a portable pitfall trap rather than as a means of storage, but it is described as functioning as a larger, cheaper portable hole and could be used for storage as such if so desired.
That's why it's called a Bag of Holding.
Since it's described as a sack I've always just imagined it as looking like a burlap potato sack. No reason you couldn't stash it inside of a regular backpack or something, though, aside from the fact that they get particularly heavy as you get to higher tiers of bags.
Is the Handy Haversack underpriced? No, not really.
It costs 4/5 what a Bag of Holding I does for roughly 1/3 the effect in regards to volume and at 1/3 the carry weight. It is comparatively more expensive for what it does, but the extra little benefits it carries just make it much more convenient.
It's essentially like paying $0.75 for a 12-oz can of Mtn Dew to crack open in the car on the way home from the grocery store, even though the 2-litres are on sale for $0.99 a few aisles away from the checkout. The 2-litre is an objectively better deal in terms of cost over volume, but the 12-oz is much easier to carry and handle - especially on the go.
There's still plenty of reason to get a regular bag of holding, of course. Every once in a while you encounter that odd creature who drops, say, 11,000 copper pieces. As you get up to higher levels you can also expect enemies to start dropping larger and larger amounts of art and magic items that you don't necessarily need or want. The haversack is good to have for stuff that you actually need to have on you when adventuring; the bag of holding is useful for bulk storage of stuff that you don't necessarily need, but is valuable enough that you can't reasonably leave it behind. It's essentially a portable storage unit that can be used to carry around your old junk until it's convenient to get rid of it.Last edited by Vaern; 2021-03-03 at 10:33 AM.
"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.
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2021-03-03, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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- Colorado
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
Enveloping Pit: So from my reading the pit is a 10'/10'/50' pit, and those numbers are used in my calcs.
Item Item Weight Content Weight Content Volume Market Price(gp) Storage Cost Storage Mass Note EP - - 5,000c.ft. 3,600 -(1.389) - NA
All considering I think it is way underpriced, it is a portable hole but functionally much better (by a factor of ~10) for less than half the price. I don't quite understand the alignment comments. If it were something like only some one with lawful evil, lawful neutral, or neutral evil are capable of activating an enveloping pit sure it would make sense but as written I don't see a meaningful difference in its functionality if you aren't lawful evil, lawful neutral, or neutral evil...Last edited by liquidformat; 2021-03-03 at 10:51 AM.
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2021-03-03, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
The price difference is a bit more ridiculous... Everything I'm seeing on the Portable Hole shows it as being 20k - DMG, SRD, and PFSRD - but your table only have it listed at half that. The enveloping pit is closer to 1/6 the portable hole's cost, rather than just being less than half the price.
It does say that it functions as a larger portable hole for someone with those particular alignments, so presumably it doesn't function at all for someone who is chaotic, good, or true neutral (unless they have UMD). They also need to worship Kurtulmak and have a divine connection to use the bonus ability to make it spring open from a distance. While there is no race restriction, the deity and alignment requirements are basically tailor-made to ensure that particularly devoted kobolds are the only ones who are going to be using the item to its full potential (though it can still be immensely useful to any lawful, evil, or lawful evil character in general without that bonus ability).
Aside from the restrictions on its abilities, I'm sure a large part of the price difference is the intent of the item even if the two are functionally similar. A portable hole is meant to be used as storage, while the enveloping pit is written to be used as a trap. It would actually be somewhat impractical to use a 50-foot pit just for storage, especially for a non-caster. You could reasonably hop into a 10-foot-deep portable hole and expect to be able to pull yourself out without too much trouble, but for a 50-foot enveloping pit you'd pretty much have to have spider climb or fly readily available at any time you wanted to retrieve something to ensure you don't injure yourself or end up trapped in the pit yourself.Last edited by Vaern; 2021-03-03 at 11:40 AM.
"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.
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2021-03-03, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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- California
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-03-03, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
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2021-03-03, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
There's nothing saying that the bag has any bulk as though there was anything inside it, and since the storage space is extradimensional it would make sense for the item itself to appear and act as though it were empty. I'd guess you could fold it up like an ordinary empty sack made from weirdly heavy fabric. But I suppose that's a DM call.
Fair enough, though it's arguable if it would work with the enveloping pit. It says that the opening stops if it hits a wall or similar obstruction, and makes mention of the opening being as small as 1 foot in diameter when folded and placed on the ground. The portable hole doesn't have anything of the sort in the description, though the enveloping pit has some context in its description to indicate that it's meant to be opened on a horizontal surface.Last edited by Vaern; 2021-03-03 at 01:41 PM.
"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.
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2021-03-03, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
a great many magic items are overpriced in the game already. the handy haversack is not among them.
the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.
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2021-03-03, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
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- Colorado
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
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2021-03-03, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Floating in the void
Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.Originally Posted by Akagi
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2021-03-03, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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2021-03-03, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
I mean by the time you have 10'/10'/50' space creating 5 floors with a 10' ladder going between each doesn't seem unreasonable... A&EG gives a price for local lumber at 1gp-10gp/50lb, Stronghold Builders gives info on making walls, snd there is always the use of spells. Creating walls with wall of stone with wood flooring and supports between would be pretty straightforward and coast effective. Heck if you can do 'horizontal walls' you can use wall of stone to create your flooring too on the cheap...
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2021-03-03, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Is Heward's Handy Haversack underpriced?
I agree, and there are certainly games set up with this in mind. Hell, one of the games I have hundreds of hours on it's a pretty big deal what pocket you decide to put your medical supplies in, because having to root through your backpack in the middle of combat while you're bleeding to get something to stop the bleeding might get you killed. Or grabbing a backup weapon if you get disarmed, or it's not effective against your target. So you need to carefully manage what goes in your backpack(slow), and whats in say, your coat pockets or your belt(relatively fast).
That said, I do not think D&D is one of those types of games. The rules for inventory management are heavily abstracted, and I don't think many people would enjoy having to meticulously write down which scroll they have in which pocket.If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!