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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Polls have to be opened with the thread, I believe.

    Also, It's a PbP. Unless you've had a 5 or 6 part AP play all the way through before, assume we'll be lucky to make it through a 3 parter.

    Since you're more worldbuilder than theorycrafter, you're going to want us gestalt rather than quadstalt, because we will break your world accidentally on a quadstalt. Also, at that point it's not characters it's piles of numbers. We'd be taking a fourth class solely for something like a HD and a good save somewhere.


    Finally, between the oaths and the ABP (regardless of level/stalt), this is going to basically be a zero item game, right?
    I was intending 0 items or very close. I've run more than one online game for 1 year or more, one for over 2 years, but I've also had a number fail right out the gate (probably everyone has). I wouldn't assume either of those was equivalent to getting through 5 or 6 parts of an AP at the rate we were going honestly, so I'm going to go with 10th level gestalt.
    Last edited by Marcarius5555; 2021-03-03 at 05:29 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Here's a only partially built Psion//Incanter with class and Oath/ABP. For three spellpoints, I can fling 6 unwilling people long range around the battlefield. DC 25 Will save.

    This is why quadstalt would be insane.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Here's a only partially built Psion//Incanter with class and Oath/ABP. For three spellpoints, I can fling 6 unwilling people long range around the battlefield. DC 25 Will save.

    This is why quadstalt would be insane.
    Upon further consideration I think this is correct. I'm not expert at rules in the sense I could write an OP guide, but I've read about and toyed with all kinds of stuff, like writing my own version of armor DR, wounds and vigor, spell points, etc. I've never actually tried a quadstalt game, so it's kind of on my bucket list of stuff, but I have no idea what that would produce or if I could actually push the opponent numbers up high enough to make it coherent.

    Also, I don't do XP, I just give level boosts whenever I feel like the story makes it sensible, so we can always add that on later if it's going well and we want to go totally gonozo for the third chapter and have a better sense of how these rules are working.
    Last edited by Marcarius5555; 2021-03-03 at 05:36 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    So Iv'e got an alchemist who focuses on cutting people up and taking their souls. Probably some sort pf a constructed character who started as an assistant to some powerful soulmagic healer, and decided he wants a soul of his own. Did some illegal experiments, killed and kidnapped people, got thrown into jail, and decided to jump om yhe opportunity to get out.

    Still need to decide what to gestalt him with.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    And I had just figured out how to make my concept into a quadstalt.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Yeah I'm gonna need to rethink my stuff a lot, as I was gonna try and use a whole bunch of stuff hmm.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by pi4t View Post
    And I had just figured out how to make my concept into a quadstalt.
    I mean, what does everyone think? On the one hand, I'm like 'let's go crazy, I've never even gotten to try this before'. One the other hand, I have no idea how that'd work in practice and I can't promise it won't break everything. We're going to have to do some practice runs of combats before we start before I attempt this in game anyway, b/c the ranged element and some of the abilities need to be considered before I just try to wing it.

    And just to be clear, I think that would be 10th level quadstalt -- is everyone willing to put the time in to make that? Are they okay if I throw creatures with 5,000 hitpoints at them to deal with that?
    Last edited by Marcarius5555; 2021-03-03 at 06:08 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Okay, let's have everyone who wants to play make a new post voting for 10th level gestalt or quadstalt.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    I mean, what does everyone think? On the one hand, I'm like 'let's go crazy, I've never even gotten to try this before'. One the other hand, I have no idea how that'd work in practice and I can't promise it won't break everything. We're going to have to do some practice runs of combats before we start before I attempt this in game anyway, b/c the ranged element and some of the abilities need to be considered before I just try to wing it.

    And just to be clear, I think that would be 10th level quadstalt -- is everyone willing to put the time in to make that. Are they okay if I throw creatures with 5,000 hitpoints at them to deal with that?
    I feel that all your games end up that way, so for me, worrying about things not breaking is pointless. I want to go crazy so that I can do a LOT of stuff, and highlight seveal different aspects of a character with solid mechanics. So I lean towards the quadstalt 'cause why not?

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    I'm honestly more interested in the level 10 part. If you think you can survive quadstalt, let's go. I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were getting yourself into.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    I'm honestly more interested in the level 10 part. If you think you can survive quadstalt, let's go. I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were getting yourself into.
    Honestly the game breaks even w/ the normal rules, so let's just go crazy, but please, everyone, though I assume it's understood, let's understand this is an experiment and have some room for testing things out. If I have a 5,000hp rhino thing that regenerates 100hp a round and has a sound barrier-breaking breath weapon, let's just see how it goes and I can make adjustments. I swear I'll try, please give me some leeway before throwing up your hands and quitting. I think the issue will be coming up with something strong enough, not adjusting down.
    Last edited by Marcarius5555; 2021-03-03 at 06:38 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfire014 View Post
    ... when a tyrrit comes of age, they enter a trance-like state, and lock themselves in their workshop. It is unknown what they are compelled to create, but after several weeks of toil, the explosive results are seen by all, destroying their body, and usually an area the size of up to a city block. The body of the former tyrrit pup, now a mature krashyt, would be found in the epicenter of the resulting crater, strangely unharmed. The mutations caused by this growth event typically makes a krashyt more prodigious with their work, both in quality, and how many explosions to the face they take before calling it a day.
    ...
    While these transformations in civilized areas are thankfully rare, what with a tyrrit's preferred domain being desert ruins where they can easily scavenge, all knowledge of what they were doing at the time is lost, and all attempts to record and reappropriate this ritual to enlighten other races always end in failure, and usually tragedy. It is illegal for a tyrrit of maturing age to be within the borders of a city.

    ~ Excerpts from Races of Vexagorth Compendium.


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    I was in the mood to play a goblin race recently, but at the same time I really liked the abilities from Elan. I saw that the only information on Blues is that they are tinkerers, so I thought: I have 41 RP, why not combine the two, add extras with the leftover RP, and call it good. They go out, and back in, with a bang. They are so used to explosions, and hyper-focusing on their work, that they evolved ways to deal with it.

    Race Points Breakdown:

    The Krashyt: (Tyrrit is the name for their young)

    Humanoid (Goblinoid) 0
    Psionic Subtype - 2 (it mainly adds a static feat (Wild/Psionic Talent) and universal Favored Class Bonus)
    Small - 0
    Normal Speed - 0
    Standard Abilities - 0 (-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 int(+6 total))
    Stealthy - 5 (+2 Ride, +2 Stealth, Stealth is class skill.)
    Keen Senses - 2 (+2 Perception)
    Weapon Familiarity (Goblin) - 1 (not sure why I kept this. Monkey Goblin Wrench?)
    Darkvision 60' - 2
    Pariah - 0 (technically a penalty, should it be a -1?)
    Repletion - 2 | Blue Total: 14
    ----------------------
    Resilience - 4
    Resistance - 4 | Elan Total: +8
    ---------------
    Advanced Int x2 (+4 Int) - 9
    Prehensile Tail - 2
    Scent - 4
    Master Tinker - 2 | Extra Total: +19
    -------------
    Total: 41


    You mentioned making a chart of all the feats for people who need it. I think I need it. It sounds like its 4 feats/odd level, 4 combat feats/even level, and then whatever bonus feats you get on top of that. How is 3 wealth replacers at the same time going to work?
    updated the feat chart.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    One of my concerns with quadstalt is that you get an awful lot of difference in power between different builds. Think about the difficulty in balancing an encounter for an optimised wizard and a monk. The difference in power between different builds, even reasonably optimised builds of the sort we'd make on this forum, is significantly greater. Especially in a game where psionics is an option.

    If we're going quadstalt, it might be worth giving some guidelines. Like "At least two of your classes should be focussed on expanding your options rather than stacking your raw power." Or "Each tier 1-2 class counts as two classes in the quadstalt."
    Last edited by pi4t; 2021-03-03 at 06:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by pi4t View Post
    One of my concerns with quadstalt is that you get an awful lot of difference in power between different builds. Think about the difficulty in balancing an encounter for an optimised wizard and a monk. The difference in power between different builds, even reasonably optimised builds of the sort we'd make on this forum, is significantly greater. Especially in a game where psionics is an option.

    If we're going quadstalt, it might be worth giving some guidelines. Like "At least two of your classes should be focussed on expanding your options rather than stacking your raw power." Or "Each tier 1-2 class counts as two classes in the quadstalt."
    My general plan was just to set certain AC, BAB+, and save targets everyone needs to be in the vicinity of. What are some other considerations? Damage per round?

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    My general plan was just to set certain AC, BAB+, and save targets everyone needs to be in the vicinity of. What are some other considerations? Damage per round?
    Nothing so numerical, unfortunately. It's much harder to quantify. Lochar's post at the top of the page is a good example of what I'm talking about. "Save-or-lose on six people" is rather powerful, more powerful than any amount of damage per round.

    Too powerful? Maybe not. Three spell points is pretty expensive in Spheres terms, and Confusion is a similarly debilitating spell which casters would normally have access to at this level. And he's devoted a lot of resources to that in his build, meaning he may lack some versatility.

    What about having three equally powerful save-or-lose abilities, each targetting a different save?

    What about if he could use the ability (or a selection of similarly powerful abilities) again and again throughout the day without running out of resources?

    Maybe the best approach is to set a target effective spell level. Something like: "Aim for your round-by-round abilities to be equivalent to a 4th level spell. You can have a few abilities which go above that power up to the equivalent of 6th level spells, but you shouldn't be planning to use abilities like that more than about three times total during the day. If you're very specialised in one ability and will have significant trouble against enemies who are strong against it, upgrade the target spell level by 1."

    Or whatever. The numbers are just an example, of course. (Note that would conveniently also establish a DPR goal.)
    Last edited by pi4t; 2021-03-03 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    My general plan was just to set certain AC, BAB+, and save targets everyone needs to be in the vicinity of. What are some other considerations? Damage per round?
    And save DCs, though those are sort of hard to pump high enough in a lot of cases.
    There are 1d20 types of people in the world: people that always roll natural 1 when it matters.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Okay level 10 quadstalt works for me. Biggest thing I need to make sure with my character at least is that they've got a core item that is very many hp and very many hardness.
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    The other way I could do it would be like this:
    Assume my first quad-stalt track is taken up by CR and templates.
    In this case, my race would be mechanically a Primordial Advanced Half-Dragon Hydra, specifically of the six headed variety (that's technically CR 9 but whatevs). The racial mods would be +18 STR, +6 DEX, +18 CON, -2 INT, +4 WIS, +4 CHA (this means the awaken spell isn't necessary). I'd also technically be getting the 6 RHD but since it's quad-stalt it should be assumed that every level is d10 or d12 3 good saves and full BAB...
    Either way, the fluff behind it would be a mutant creature from some world that's incredibly radioactive, and so it sort of just grew at random. And became intelligent eventually.
    Last edited by Aleph Null; 2021-03-03 at 07:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by pi4t View Post
    Nothing so numerical, unfortunately. It's much harder to quantify. Lochar's post at the top of the page is a good example of what I'm talking about. "Save-or-lose on six people" is rather powerful, more powerful than any amount of damage per round.

    Too powerful? Maybe not. Three spell points is pretty expensive in Spheres terms, and Confusion is a similarly debilitating spell which casters would normally have access to at this level. And he's devoted a lot of resources to that in his build, meaning he may lack some versatility.
    I have 30 spell points in that build, but yeah. I'm a Tiny spider construct. I went with battlefield control. :D

    What about having three equally powerful save-or-lose abilities, each targetting a different save?

    What about if he could use the ability (or a selection of similarly powerful abilities) again and again throughout the day without running out of resources?

    Maybe the best approach is to set a target effective spell level. Something like: "Aim for your round-by-round abilities to be equivalent to a 4th level spell. You can have a few abilities which go above that power up to the equivalent of 6th level spells, but you shouldn't be planning to use abilities like that more than about three times total during the day. If you're very specialised in one ability and will have significant trouble against enemies who are strong against it, upgrade the target spell level by 1."

    Or whatever. The numbers are just an example, of course. (Note that would conveniently also establish a DPR goal.)
    Another decent measure would be "At what level can you nova, and for how long?"


    Soo... quadstalt. How would you do it with Spheres? Highest CL among the different tracks, but combine spell points? Because Spheres by default adds your CL between all classes. And offering me 30-40 CL probably isn't the best thing.
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    I'm down for quadstalt if everyone else is

    I'm thinking Voyager || Parasite (PoW class from Lost Spheres Publishing) as the base, to lean into the self-improvement philosophy of the Amytria. Will think about what else to supplement it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Soo... quadstalt. How would you do it with Spheres? Highest CL among the different tracks, but combine spell points?
    Yeah, that's the recommended gestalt rule on the wiki, so it makes sense to track it to quadstalt
    Last edited by Argus0; 2021-03-03 at 08:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    I have 30 spell points in that build, but yeah. I'm a Tiny spider construct. I went with battlefield control. :D



    Another decent measure would be "At what level can you nova, and for how long?"


    Soo... quadstalt. How would you do it with Spheres? Highest CL among the different tracks, but combine spell points? Because Spheres by default adds your CL between all classes. And offering me 30-40 CL probably isn't the best thing.
    Usual convention with spheres is that if you have it on to sides of the gestalt then you have to make it multiple casting traditions, I believe.

    Incidentally, are you using the casting traditions I made earlier in the thread? I think that spheres was only allowed with those traditions.
    Last edited by pi4t; 2021-03-03 at 08:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Center of Power, Mental Focus, Rigorous Concentration

    As a construct, I'm immune to crits but I'm self-ruling that crits are rolled to confirm for Center of Power and Mental Focus, even if I don't take crit damage off of it.


    Multiple Casting traditions being completely separated then? I'd be down with that too. Magical signs for the more direct flashy stuff if I go that way.
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Oh boy, that's a beast I'm pretty sure I don't have the system mastery to deal with. And that's also a lot of feats.

    I'm fine with gestalt/quadstalt either way. I personally prefer lvl 5, but I'm sure I'll get outvoted.

    Yea, Spheres XXXXstalt is highest CL, combine spell points, unless they're different traditions.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    updated the feat chart.
    does that overrides bonus feats that another class normally gains? Let's say we select pasychic warrior or psion, we don't get the bonus feats those classes normaly gain, right?

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Arael666 View Post
    does that overrides bonus feats that another class normally gains? Let's say we select pasychic warrior or psion, we don't get the bonus feats those classes normaly gain, right?
    You do get the bonus feats as well, consider what I put down to be the equivalent of (1 feat every other level) that most PF characters get. Instead of 1 every other level, or 1 every level, you get as many as a fighter who gets 1 per level.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Wait, so does that table we get something like 64 fighter bonus feats total? Am I reading that right?
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Wait, so does that table we get something like 64 fighter bonus feats total? Am I reading that right?
    That's the base amount of feats you start with plus combat stamina, which is free, as well as the skill unlock feats for any skill you have (this is just to make skill unlocks part of the base skill system). You're going to have like 80+ feats total. Those 64 are instead of 1 every other level.
    Last edited by Marcarius5555; 2021-03-03 at 08:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    That's the base amount of feats you start with plus combat stamina, which is free, as well as the skill unlock feats for any skill you have (this is just to make skill unlocks part of the base skill system). You're going to have like 80+ feats total. Those 64 are instead of 1 every other level.
    Oh my...do that many different feats even exist lmao
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcarius5555 View Post
    That's the base amount of feats you start with plus combat stamina, which is free, as well as the skill unlock feats for any skill you have (this is just to make skill unlocks part of the base skill system). You're going to have like 80+ feats total. Those 64 are instead of 1 every other level.
    Wait, does that mean you're giving each level 1, each level 3, etc a feat?

    OK, that changes a few things. Wow. Well, I thought I was going to be feat hungry...

    Can I assume that any Spherecaster specific feats have the Psionic tag on them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph Null View Post
    Oh my...do that many different feats even exist lmao
    There's going to be a lot of 'Extra Magic Talent' and 'Extra Spell Point' type feats abused in this.
    Last edited by Lochar; 2021-03-03 at 08:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardea View Post
    That is the scariest two lines I have read in a forum of any kind.
    Take two internets, a cookie and a vorpal sword, please.
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    Default Re: Shadows of the Final Dawn AP: Homebrew Psionic, Psychic, Akashic Sci-Fi Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Wait, does that mean you're giving each level 1, each level 3, etc a feat?

    OK, that changes a few things. Wow. Well, I thought I was going to be feat hungry...
    The idea is that instead of 1 feat every other level, or 1 feat per level, instead the progression is as if a fighter getting 1 feat per level for every class. That is in place of the standard feat allocation. The idea is to give enough feats you can pick some stuff just for flavor and have enough to do any conceivable chain of stuff, especially ones with long chains like two handed fighting or intimidation builds.

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