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Thread: AT spells

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2020

    Default AT spells

    Iím getting close to making it to a level 7 AT. Want to gauge what spells are recommended. I currently have:
    (1st level)
    Find Familiar (Love the Owl and the sneak attacks/advantage helper)
    Puppet
    Tashas hideous laughter
    Silent image

    I barely use spells aside from making sure my familiar is always around- still new and donít think of how to utilize the silent image component. For level 2 Iím thinking shadow blade and invisibility- more utility and not as much save throws as my DC is average. Let me know what you all think!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2020

    Default Re: AT spells

    Shadow Blade and Invisibility are great spells, but both require your Concentration.

    I advise you to get Shadow Blade to increase your offense, remembering that in Dim light you attack with advantage, therefore granting SA damage, and Mirror Image as your second spell choice. This will improve your defense big time and at level 8 you can get Sentinel for an amazing combination of off-turn attacks!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2019

    Default Re: AT spells

    I always see people recommending find familiar for the help action and always wonder why people think it a valid and reliable option. In my games, both as gm and players, the life expectancy of a familiar that take an active part in combat is usually 1 turn. Someone distracted by a bird rushing him is gonna beat the living f... out of him. And considering find familiar as a material cost, you gonna be a broke caster early game.

    Sentinel as a feat is so-so, it's nice when it proc, but it doesn't proc that much, using an asi for an additional sneak attack every 3 turn or so on average is a big cost.
    Last edited by Chronic; 2021-03-03 at 06:33 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: AT spells

    Hold Person, Invisibilty, and Suggestion.

    Don't forget you can trade up spells. So for example if you're not using Tasha's Hideous Laughter Silent Image much, trade it up. Disadvantage is you have fewer 2nd level slots than 1st, so overloading on 2nd level spells isn't always the best idea. But if you're increasing options for specific situations, and you're not using a lower level spell anyway, go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronic View Post
    I always see people recommending find familiar for the help action and always wonder why people think it a valid and reliable option. In my games, both as gm and players, the life expectancy of a familiar that take an active part in combat is usually 1 turn. Someone distracted by a bird rushing him is gonna beat the living f... out of him. And considering find familiar as a material cost, you gonna be a broke caster early game.
    Agreed. But most DMs allow the Help action to still provide advantage even if the creature that used it moves away, and Owls have Flyby and 60ft movement. That makes them harder to kill when used for this tactic.

    Probably they should have been given Flyby Attack, not blanket immunity to OAs when flying.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2019

    Default Re: AT spells

    True the owl is better at it than other familiar, but if something squishy provide a source of advantage every turn, fly by or no, it's still going down if the enemy is an intelligent one. Considering that most of the encounter I design or face as a player as mixed range of attack, it would still go down every fight. But it might be a DM related thing and be valid in some games.
    Last edited by Chronic; 2021-03-03 at 06:44 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2020

    Default Re: AT spells

    The Owl might be in danger if there are enemies with ranged attacks. But hey, it costs only 10gp to resummon it. So unless you abuse it in every fight, you should be fine.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeman View Post
    The Owl might be in danger if there are enemies with ranged attacks. But hey, it costs only 10gp to resummon it. So unless you abuse it in every fight, you should be fine.
    Even with ranged attacks, Owl can easily get total cover. It's the Ready action that's the danger, but this requires a somewhat smarter monster (and even then might not be worth it, specially if they have Multiattack; it's a considerable sacrifice in damage output in that case).

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: AT spells

    Blur is nice too. Shadow Blade is great if you are a melee rogue. Invisibility is handy for surprise or out of combat. I enjoy spider climb (but that's a personal bias). Sometimes Shield or Absorb Elements can save the day. Misty Step and Darkness can also be very handy.


    (some of these a lvl8 suggestions due to school)

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    Even with ranged attacks, Owl can easily get total cover. It's the Ready action that's the danger, but this requires a somewhat smarter monster (and even then might not be worth it, specially if they have Multiattack; it's a considerable sacrifice in damage output in that case).
    It might still be worth it, to get rid of an annoying creature and to really annoy the mage.

    As an aside, a creature might be able to use Multiattack as a Readied Action. Multiattack cannot be used with Opportunity Attacks (Monster Manual, Introduction) but nothing in the rules says it can't work with Ready (compared to the PC feature Extra Attack, which explicity says "on your turn"). I know that JC tweeted "A creature is meant to use Multiattack only on its turn, not on someone else's." but there is nothing in the rules that says that. I guess "expect table variation" applies here.
    Last edited by greenstone; 2021-03-03 at 07:19 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2019

    Default Re: AT spells

    I agree there is no reason by raw to prevent someone to ready a multi attack , it's still one action.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2020

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikimba View Post
    Shadow Blade and Invisibility are great spells, but both require your Concentration.

    I advise you to get Shadow Blade to increase your offense, remembering that in Dim light you attack with advantage, therefore granting SA damage, and Mirror Image as your second spell choice. This will improve your defense big time and at level 8 you can get Sentinel for an amazing combination of off-turn attacks!
    Our AT who has also just reached 7th is going the Mirror Image + Sentinel route, so we'll see how it works out. I'm thinking he will be getting a lot of extra reaction attacks with the combo. He has a decent magic weapon and the Familiar, so Shadow Blade would be a marginal improvement for a rare 2nd level slot.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by 5eNeedsDarksun View Post
    Our AT who has also just reached 7th is going the Mirror Image + Sentinel route, so we'll see how it works out. I'm thinking he will be getting a lot of extra reaction attacks with the combo.
    Oh wow, that's some serious cheese,

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: AT spells

    Huh - I never realized that Mirror Image / Sentinel would work, but RAW it would because Sentinel states "target" but does not require the target to be a creature. Totally legit cheese for off turn sneak attack. Damn ...



    Sentinel:
    When a creature within 5' of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by da newt View Post
    Huh - I never realized that Mirror Image / Sentinel would work, but RAW it would because Sentinel states "target" but does not require the target to be a creature. Totally legit cheese for off turn sneak attack. Damn ...
    It's not just Sentinel, Mirror Image is terribly written all over.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2020

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Oh wow, that's some serious cheese,
    You think? I suppose it's a matter of opinion. To me it's the sort of thing the AT is built to do, so I don't really have an issue with it. Certain multiclass combinations (usually 1 level dips) are the things I'm starting to cringe at when people come to my table with them.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: AT spells

    Quote Originally Posted by T2334 View Post
    Iím getting close to making it to a level 7 AT. Want to gauge what spells are recommended. I currently have:
    (1st level)
    Find Familiar (Love the Owl and the sneak attacks/advantage helper)
    Puppet
    Tashas hideous laughter
    Silent image

    I barely use spells aside from making sure my familiar is always around- still new and donít think of how to utilize the silent image component. For level 2 Iím thinking shadow blade and invisibility- more utility and not as much save throws as my DC is average. Let me know what you all think!
    Do you prefer melee or ranged combat? If melee, Shadow Blade would probably see good use. If not, I'd strongly consider Phantasmal Force.

    And either way, Shield, Blur, and Mirror Image are always good defensive spells to have.
    Favorite Builds:
    The Tank (Artillerist)
    The True Ninja (Shadow-Stalker Assassin)
    The Relentless (Zealot Artillerist):
    Gestalts

    'Brew:
    My 4E Fix
    Making "Martial Arts" actually feel like Martial Arts
    Suggested Sorcerous Origins bonus spells and 'brewed Metamagics (post #17)

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