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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Post Need help. Kender/Halfling PRC - with Bees

    Hey everyone,

    I am currently playing a true Kender rogue in a 3.5e Dragonlance setting. Very much core+the DL books. Other stuff can be requested.
    Sadly, Dragonlance didn't really add much for rogues, and let's not talk about the 2 Kender PrC. ^^
    So I wanted to play a good assassin, mainly for the spells. But my DM doesn't like the idea of Kender being able to use magic and so we began to homebrew. Sadly Dragonlance didnt add a single spell for Assassins.
    And I would like your thoughts on this one:

    The idea of the PRC:
    We are a sort of knight for the Queen of the Kender people. Going out and loooking out for those in need. We work for the queen and are her little bee. Which is just a fun theme to think about. ^^
    Making a rogue-ish class into a paladin doesn't particularly work, one thing that works though is the Kenders taunt ability. Attack me and not him.
    So d8 HP, the taunt itself is an easy to apply debuff.

    Death attack > Teamfight tactics and Kender combat style
    Poison use/ sv >taunt and Kender luck
    spells: +2HD/+2skillpoints per Lv and some new options.


    Hand of Belladonna. (Queens guard)
    Req.:
    Impr taunt, the bigger they are (+1dmg /size difference)
    Bluff 8, hide 8, gather info
    uncanny dodge

    8HD per Lv, Skillpoints 6+INT as rogue selection
    3/4 BAB, 1 good SV Ref

    Lv1
    Kender combat style
    Honey tongue
    Sneak attack +1d6
    Spell: Beesting

    Lv2
    Improved taunt (as move act)

    Lv3
    Impr uncanny dodge
    Sneak attack +2d6
    Spell: Hornet sting

    Lv4
    Kender Luck
    Improved taunt (no language needed, min INT4)

    Lv5
    Hide in plain sight
    Sneak attack +3d6

    Lv6
    Improved Taunt (-3 debuff, dazed if -10)

    Lv7
    Sneak attack +4d6
    spell: Flight of the bees

    Lv8
    Crippeling strike or wounding critical
    Improved taunt (targets all within 15ft r of each other)

    Lv9
    Sneak attack +5d6

    Lv10
    Improved taunt (-4 debuff)
    Spell: For the queen!
    Improved taunt: each improves the taunt ability: normal: As a st act: Bluff check vs 1 enemie's sense motive check = -2AC/-2ATk for Rounds =your CHA. Enemy must be able to hear and see you, same language. Useable only 1/EC on 1 enemy. The taunted enemy doesnt HAVE to attack you.

    Kender combat style: You can use your DEX modifier for your dmg rolls in place of your STR.

    Honey Tongue Urban tracking +2 gather info and search? bluff, diplomacy?
    - this could very well be something else but it fits the class idea.
    OR Bee familiar? +3 Gather info ? I love the idea, but its unlikely that my DM allows it.
    OR: some small AC bonus - fits the melee part but rather boring.

    Spell-like abilities: swift action, 1/day +1 every lv up to 4max.
    Beesting Your next single attacks becomes a touch attack, this breaks a grapple if you deal at least one point of damage. I really like this one since it fits the idea that we can help somebody.
    Thought: If this attack crits, it deals 2 points of Ability dmg. (Bees do CON or STR dmg I believe) I have to think what this might enable - A keen rapier? Oh boy - Then again its only 1 attack. I leave the crit part out for now.

    Hornet Sting Spell ref: "Fell the greatest foe" spell Lv2: +1d6 / size difference on melee attacks for 1R. I still have to figure the details out on this one.
    Just a damage boost I guess. Alternative form: more like a smite? CHA to ATK and a fixed dmg bonus?
    If this attack crits it deals Abil dmg? or the target cant act for 1 Round? (Hornets do Dex+CHA dmg) For now I leave the crit part out, though it makes it more interesting

    Kender Luck Add your CHA mod to your Saves

    Lv3 spell equivalent: We get better or earlier abilities so no spell here.

    Flight of the bees: Fly or dim door? Some form of transport.

    For the Queen: Queen Bee's Overview: Greater Prying Eyes - Send your bees to scout!
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-11 at 11:01 AM. Reason: reworked

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    What does '6 skill points/6HD/' mean?
    What power level are you looking at?
    What are you wanting to be capable of doing?

    There are things that really are just bad about this class, for example rogues can take Skill Mastery at level 10 which is superior to Calm Hands in every single way and available a level sooner. the Lucky feat and skill focus are generally not great. Getting a shadow jump ability at ECL 15+ is way too late. If you are looking to mostly focus on being good in combat builds like rogue3/swashbuckler 15/swordsage2 with daring outlaw or things like nightsong enforcer just better.

    If you are wanting to make a 'lucky' rogue prc that doesn't bog everything down with rerolls you can instead focus on getting luck bonuses, some as immediate/swift actions others granting bonuses for a period of time/day. Look at Luck Devotion from Complete champion and Better Lucky than Good and Dumb Luck from Complete Scoundrel for example. Luck Devotion let's you for 1 min/day every damage die you roll that is below the average gets moved up to average. While Better Lucky than Good and Dumb Luck both let you turn a natural 1 into a natural 20.

    You could for example get a pool of 'luck points' that can be used for things like turning natural 1s into 10' or natural 20', expended to get luck bonuses to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saves for different amounts of time per day, even for getting some spell like features like haste and such. There are plenty of ways to portray lucky without bogging things down with rerolls.

    There is also a decent amount of support out there for using slight of hand/knife throwing. Flick of the Wrist, hidden blade, sudden draw all are geared around catching opponents off guard by drawing weapons and attacking. Master Thrower, Whisper Knife, invisible blade, and bloodstorm blade can be combined to make very powerful throwers.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    Why is Calm Hands limited to a number of times per day? Other classes get take 10 under stress whenever... why is this one limited?

    As for Luck Points, why not make them not a reroll, but a bonus? So, instead of giving 3 luck points, you give them 20 luck points, and each luck point sways a die roll by 1 point... enough to save your bacon in a tight situation, but it's not going to prevent you from getting chopped to bits if you try to rely on it too long.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    What does '6 skill points/6HD/' mean?
    What power level are you looking at?
    What are you wanting to be capable of doing?

    There are things that really are just bad about this class, for example rogues can take Skill Mastery at level 10 which is superior to Calm Hands in every single way and available a level sooner. the Lucky feat and skill focus are generally not great. Getting a shadow jump ability at ECL 15+ is way too late. If you are looking to mostly focus on being good in combat builds like rogue3/swashbuckler 15/swordsage2 with daring outlaw or things like nightsong enforcer just better.

    If you are wanting to make a 'lucky' rogue prc that doesn't bog everything down with rerolls you can instead focus on getting luck bonuses, some as immediate/swift actions others granting bonuses for a period of time/day. Look at Luck Devotion from Complete champion and Better Lucky than Good and Dumb Luck from Complete Scoundrel for example. Luck Devotion let's you for 1 min/day every damage die you roll that is below the average gets moved up to average. While Better Lucky than Good and Dumb Luck both let you turn a natural 1 into a natural 20.

    You could for example get a pool of 'luck points' that can be used for things like turning natural 1s into 10' or natural 20', expended to get luck bonuses to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saves for different amounts of time per day, even for getting some spell like features like haste and such. There are plenty of ways to portray lucky without bogging things down with rerolls.

    There is also a decent amount of support out there for using slight of hand/knife throwing. Flick of the Wrist, hidden blade, sudden draw all are geared around catching opponents off guard by drawing weapons and attacking. Master Thrower, Whisper Knife, invisible blade, and bloodstorm blade can be combined to make very powerful throwers.
    Thanks for the feedback.
    6skillpoints and 6HD is what you get per Lv. So 6+INT in skill points, rogue selection.
    And you roll a D6 for HD.

    But yea, there are better classes out there, obviously. But I don't have access to them, since it's Dragonlance/core. But I definitely like the luck idea as a sort of replacement to magic. Since the DM doesn't like that or I would be just playing a good-aligned assassin. ^^
    Nightsong enforcer- interesting. Not great, but I didn't know that one yet. Seems more melee ish

    To summarize what I want to do:
    Mostly just being a rogue/Kender. Stealthy, sneak attack dmg (likely 2WF), and something that gives me options similar to magic either in form of luck points or use magic device. If it benefits the team that is fine as well.

    Kender also have the taunt ability: Bluff check vs sense motive to reduce the AC and Hit of a target by1 for 1 round. If you have the impr. taunt feat it goes up to -2 AC/Hit for rounds = CHA. Useable only on INT creatures. language dependant, and only once per encounter on 1 creature. May buff this a bit? Add the -2 to saves as well? Open to sneak attacks?

    The strike and cover ability is an ACF from the Dragonlance books - originally we started this class as a modified assassin and this replaced the death-attack. ^^ I never used it so I don't know how well this would work in combat.

    If we start from the Assassin again:

    Death attack > Strike and cover Both not great, so this looks like a fair trade. Also, its from the book and sounds very Kender-like. ^^ I think it's fun, but not a must.
    Skillpoints can be 6+INt , Hit dice the same.
    Poison use > use magic device boni?
    Magical knack: Add your INT bonus (in my case 2) to your Umd checks. You no longer suffer spell failure chance from armor or enc, as long as you are only wearing light or no armor. (This could also be just a skill focus)
    Poison resistance+1-5: Luck bonus to AC? SV boni against magic? Against mind effecting? Bonus to UMD? Other boni to UMD like more uses, a change in CL or DC maybe?
    A Warlock gets a take 10 on UMD on LV4

    Magic > ... replacing something as great as magic is hard to do. This could be changed into special abilities for rerolls, boni, feats if nothing else... Something that can be equally as useful.

    Luck: Luck domain, luck devotion, Luck aura (like a paladin?) Turn a 1 into a 20, ....Bad luck for enemies? Only for yourself at first, but later for the team?
    There is a luck weaver or fate spinner class (I think there are 2) but those are usually full casters.

    Hide in plain sight could come a bit earlier- Lv5 instead of LV8.

    Battle oriented? With the idea of a protector of sorts. Aura, better flanking. Attack of opportunity if an ally is attacked?
    - UMD needs a free hand, which doesn't work so well with 2WF. The strike and cover option also doesn't really go so well with 2WF. So maybe add a dmg bonus to single hits to offset this a bit?
    Or allow the 1 extra hit with the offhand on such an attack if 2WF is used.
    - Maybe stealing some ideas from the swashbuckler? INT to dmg, charge over difficult terrain, impr, flanking, Reroll failed attacks?

    Just collecting some ideas. Open to your ideas and thoughts. Especially on what to replace the Assassin spells with.
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-04 at 11:01 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    ok normally that is denoted as 6+int/level and d6. In this case since you are dumping spell casting I think 8+int skill points and a second good save or d8 HD. Alternatively going full BAB, and to be honest getting full BAB two good saves and either a bump in HD or skill points is still not enough to to exchange for loosing casting. You are loosing things like wraithstrike and true strike right out of the gate which dramatically increase your ability to fight. To be successful in melee you either need something to boost your numbers or full BAB.

    Really you need to decide what direction you want to go with this PRC and focus in on that direction. Otherwise its going to shoot you in your foot. And I would under no conditions go protector with a rogue, you don't have the HP or saves to back that up and it is just a bad strategy in D&D in general.

    I think you have two different paths either focusing in on melee with two weapons or luck.

    Melee two-weapon fighting is probably the easier one to make. Here is a mashup between duelist and swashbuckler I made for reference.
    • If you want to drop the power level a bit go with good reflex save and d6.
    • I would switch the Int synergy to Cha synergy it seems more Kender to focus on Cha.
    • Exchange uncanny feint to Taunt improvements
    • Replace acrobatic skills mastery with UMD, Bluff, & Sense Motives
    • If you remove arcane stunt adding in Improved uncanny dodge at level 3, HiPS at level 5, improved evasion at 7
    • Replace grace with 'Lucky' and have it go to Will and/or Fort saves you are already going to be fine at reflex saves


    For a luck focused PRC looking at fate/luck PRCs and feats for inspiration is a good idea. With a quick search I am seeing Fatespinner arcane caster PRC from CA, Luckstealer divine caster halfling PRC from RotW, and Fatemaker a rogue PRC from PH with some casting. In general this one is a bit hard because it is more abstract. Here are some thoughts
    • medium bab, d6, 2 good saves, 8+int skill points/level
    • SA every other level
    • Improved uncanny dodge at level 3, HiPS at level 5, improved evasion at 7, slipper mind level 9
    • give a luck pool, might play around with the numbers but I would start with at least 10 times you class level in luck points
    • At level 1 luck points can be used as luck bonus to on skills checks, save, damage or attack roll you make at 1 to 1, you determine how many you are going to use when you make the roll it requires no extra action
    • starting at level 2 give a bonus to initiative equal to half your class level as a luck bonus
    • At level 4 as an immediate action a luck point can be used to change the result of any roll by 1 so a natural 1 can be changed to a 2 and not auto fail or so an 18 rolled on your attack with a short sword becomes a 19 and critical hit.
    • skills mastery with UMD, Bluff, & Sense Motives at level 6
    • at level 6 or 8 you can use luck points to increase your AC for a number of rounds equal to your class level at a 1 to 1 rate
    • add in a progression to the Taunt ability to fill in the cracks

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    Thanks a lot.
    After some rethinking here is the result of what I want this PrC to be: (as an idea sketch)
    1) He is a fighter for Kender (works better than protector/defender ^^)
    2) The best he can do to keep others save is taunt the monster
    3) Kender are already well trained in stuff like open lock, sleight of hand... now we are just a bit better and can use magical devices to aid us in our quest.

    Based on your Duelist mash-up, I tried to build something around what I imagine.

    Req.: W Finesse, impr taunt
    Uncanny dodge, evasion
    UMD8/ TUMBLE 8
    Hit Die: d8 Skillpoints:6+INt

    Full BAB, 1 or 2 good saves

    Lv1
    Strike and cover (I know its likely not great, but its one of the few unique Kender things), Magical Knack (racial bonus to UMD=+2, +1 for every 2 Class levels) ,
    The bigger they are (+1dmg/size difference, this is a feat from the books, alternatively CHA>dmg/AC with light W and unenc, light armor...), sneak attack +1d6

    Lv2
    Shield of Blades +2 (AC bonus as long as you wield 2 light weapons, unenc and not FF), Improved taunt: Extent the -2 to saves

    Lv3
    Acrobatic charge, impr uncanny dodge, sneak attack +2d6

    Lv4
    Shield of Blades +3,
    impr. Taunt - You can taunt targets that are otherwise imune?- 1/2 SA dmg against taunted targets? Dazed for 1 R if they fail by 10 or more?...

    Lv5
    Skill mastery (UMD,dis device...?), Hide in plain sight
    sneak attack +3d6

    Lv6
    Shield of Blades +4, improved Taunt: Increase all debuffs to-3

    Lv7
    Weakening critical - (2CON dmg on a crit)
    impr. Evasion
    sneak attack +4d6

    Lv8
    Shield of Blades +5

    Lv9
    Slippery mind,
    sneak attack +5d6

    Lv10
    Wounding critical (2STR dmg on a crit), improved taunt (increase debuff to -4)

    Notes and ideas: Looks now more like a melee build with some solid support options, even on higher levels.
    So far it is almost a ranger without spells/fav enemy but Sneak attack dmg and other goodies.
    The first line looks a bit odd. Mostly because Strike and cover isnt all that good (or fitting) but its a typical kender thing. And The bigger they are is basically just a free feat.
    What else might fit this? A dmg or ac bonus against taunted enemies? Dazed if they fail their save against the taunt by 10 or more?
    Dirsuptive strike would still work great with 2 WF - maybe kick The bigger they are for this?
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-05 at 10:14 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    looks pretty good, for skill mastery kender are skilled with sleight of hand, open locks, disable locks, and bluff due to 'taunt'. In this case based on the idea behind the PRC I think bluff might be a good choice because of the taunt synergy of the prc. Daze is a pretty powerful debuff and could make sense as a capstone.

    Action economy is also a big deal and I assume taunt like Demoralize and Feint is a standard action, adding in the ability to make it a move and maybe later a swift action is more powerful than increasing the duration and as powerful as doubling the effect. Also expanding the ability so you can taunt creatures that don't share a language is also very powerful though a lower tier. The ability to taunt multiple creatures at once is also very nice.

    As a side note there is never outnumbered which is a skill trick from Complete Scoundrel it allows you to demoralize every opponent within 10' radius. If you play with skill tricks getting this trick to work on Taunt would be very powerful. If you don't its a good example of how you could expand the power of taunt.

    As far as Strike and Cover goes, it isn't a horrible ACF especially since it gives you a slightly better form of spring attack without the normal dodge and mobility prerequisites. This ability is honestly much better on a scout since skirmish is based around how much you move in a round. The down side to strike and cover is you are unable to take bounding assault and rapid blitz so can only attack once per round. Even worse spring attack doesn't work with two weapon fighting at all the best you can do is maybe taking Dual Strike which increases your attack penalty to -4 but allows you to make an attack with both your offhand and primary hand as a standard action. However, even that is questionable whether it works with spring attack since it is a standard action...

    Over all Strike and Cover doesn't work with two weapon fighting, I could see it maybe working alright with an archer build if it functioned as shot on the run...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    Thanks again.
    I still juggle with some of the abilities.

    Strike and Cover: I still like the idea of it, but for now I try to come up with something else.
    Ideas: If a taunted opponent attacks you allies within melee range get an attack of opportunity. If he attacks somebody else while you are in melee range, you get an attack of opportunity.
    - Taunt groups?


    Also: Don't forget that we are playing in a very core-ish group. So most of the add-on feats, skill tricks and alike are not available.
    As for power balance: Originally I didnt plan on being such a frontliner. But since we otherwise only have a monk and a very tanky cleric, that will likely go more for casting, this might be the better call.

    And for taunt: I am a bit scared to overbuff it. On one hand there are plenty of creatures that are imune to it, although I already ruled with my DM that you can try it with a -4 penalty or something like that (bodylanguage) but at the same time its really easy to do (St action). ... But each target can be affected only once so....I guess I can try.

    So there might be up to 5 Lvs for taunt:
    1) -2 saves
    2) no language needed, but min animal Int (4)
    3) increase to -3 debuff, dazed for 1 R if it fails by 10 or more.
    4) Taunt as a swift act
    5) Increase to -4 +dazed for 1 round

    Something like that. Dazed doesnt make the target FF so no SA.

    Skill mastery: Maybe its only for UMD. Otherwise UMD, dis Dev, open lock and sleight of hand. Since bluff is just a standart action, there might be no need for take 10 on that. Not 100% sure how that works though.

    Comparing this with a regular rogue, it is better in every way. Except for 2 skillpoints per Lv and chosing the special abilities.
    So maybe from that point of view I have to take some stuff away or limit it. But then again, if I look at what a normal cleric gets... not to mention with prestige classes that still have full caster progression. Even a ranger isnt that far off. Spells and different abilities....
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-05 at 02:18 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    Comparing the above design idea looks really powerful and packed compared to normal PrC.
    It can't have all the Rogue abilities in there as if you were still a rogue or at least not on the same level. ^^

    The easiest way for balance is to start from something that already exists:
    The closest is a regular ranger or just the Swashbuckler. Although we could start as well from an Assassin. Looking at some Cleric PrC: Losing just 1 SpellLv is enough to get you FULL BAB and+2Hd/LV

    Here is a new version: Bringing back some of the luck aspect:
    Hand of Belladonna D8 HD, 6+INT rogue selection
    3/4 BAB, 1 good SV RF

    New req: Lucky feat- hurts but it fits well.

    Lv1
    Belladonnas blessing (1/day), Swift blade(Aoo), Magical Knack,
    sneak attack +1d6

    Lv2
    Dext fighting, Improved taunt (move act)

    Lv3
    impr uncanny dodge
    sneak attack +2d6

    Lv4
    Belladonnas blessing (2/day)
    improved taunt (no language needed)

    Lv5
    Hide in plain sight --- maybe this one can go
    sneak attack +3d6

    Lv6
    Skill Mastery (UMD,bluff,dis device, open lock), --- fixed selection
    improved Taunt (-3 debuff, dazed if -10)

    Lv7
    Belladonnas blessing 3/day
    Weakening critical
    sneak attack +4d6

    Lv8
    impr. Evasion,
    improved taunt (targets all within 15ft r of each other)

    Lv9
    Slippery mind,
    sneak attack +5d6

    Lv10
    Belladonnas blessing 4/day-----maybe only 3 and spread it out more.
    Wounding critical, improved taunt (-4 debuff)
    --- DM wants no more than 10 PrC Lvs
    Looks like fun to me and more balanced than the old. Kind of.
    Right now no full BAB, but +2HD.

    Balladonnas Blessing: 1/day you can use one of the following options. Each only once.
    Reroll a roll (before you know the result)/ turn a crit into a normal hit (enemy), confirm a crit (ally) , for 1 minute all your dmg rolls are at least average, if a difference of 1 would save you you can change the result, If you fall below 0 HP you stay at 0...other ideas? Ignore misschances for 1 round.
    From the fatespinner class: add +10/-10 to a save- only works up to your own HD.
    At the lower end we could mimic spells: Blur, displacement, moment of presience, Foresight, featherfall, guidance, div favor, augury...
    - Some of these can be expanded to affect enemies and allies, but I am not sure how good of an idea that is.
    - My DM prefers it if I get new options over the Levels, so this one needs a bit of work.
    The blessing might also come with +1 luck bonus to AC each. I would like to avoid something like luck points or a pool of points to keep it simple.

    Option 1: Each of the Blessings gives you a new set of options. 1st- a rather small thing but still powerfull in the right moment. 2-more powerfull...
    Option 2: 1 Fix reroll per day + something else for each Blessing.
    Option 3: 1 use per blessing but what you can do with it expands.

    Swift blade: If a taunted opponent attacks you in melee, an ally within melee range gets to make an AOO against the taunted opponent. If your ally is attacked by a taunted enemy while you are in melee, you can make an attack of AOO against the attacker.

    Dext fighting You can use half your DEX modifier (rounded down) for your dmg rolls in place of your STR.

    Technically speaking the Magical knack doesn't really fit in, but a good UMD check makes us more versatile. - Skill mastery is just a follow up to that. There is a lot of stuff in there, but most of it is defensive.
    Still, from all the stuff in here, the UMD stuff and hide in plain sight are the easiest to kick out.

    I like where this is going. Open for ideas.
    My DM is ok with most of it. Only the uses for the blessing need some more thought and maybe kick 1 or 2 other things.
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-06 at 12:47 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Need help. Dragonlance Kender Rogue PrC - Strike and Cover

    After long design trials I am removing the luck idea. Its too hard to balance and design.
    Lets instead focus on the other parts: Scout/ Fighter/ Taunt

    As an idea: Req feat: The bigger they are (+1dmg /size difference)
    I sort of like the idea to play around with that a bit.

    Kender Combat style: Add your Dex mod to your dmg rolls or 1/2 dmg instead of STR - Just a dmg buff, not strictly necessary since we use SA, but makes us more versatile
    Duck away: +1 dodge AC per size difference Might also be something like +1/2/3 per 2 sizes and increase it later - usually you need "dodge" for something like that
    Strike and Cover: As before, spring attack with hide check
    Hide in plain sight Seems to go really well with strike and cover, even if not, its a great ability for sneaky rogues to have.
    Maybe some other dmg buff?
    Titan fighting: +1d6 sneak attack / size difference - fits to "the bigger they are" but might as well be something like crippeling strike or wounding critical and alike.
    Fast movement: +10/20ft seems fitting
    Kender skill mastery: I think you actually cant use skill mastery for UMD... which makes me sad. So mostly open lock, dis device, bluff...
    Capstone: Free movement (scout) permanent freedom of movement

    Some other ideas:
    Swift blade: Aoo when a taunted enemy attacks an ally while you are in melee and the other way around. A sort of team fightig option, maybe?
    Some special attack option?
    An alternative to h.i.p.s. - Shadowmeld a kind of shadow-teleport ability?
    Scale piercer: Make your next attack as a touch attack ? - Nice but we already have taunt as a good debuffer.
    Darkstalker... only because its not in core.
    Blindsense? Just looking at the scout abilities again.
    Flawless stride.

    And the taunt stuff of course.

    This seems to be meld between a rogue, swashbuckler, a gnome giant slayer and a scout. ^^
    Last edited by Bobur; 2021-03-08 at 03:07 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Need help. Kender/Halfling PRC - with Bees

    Massive update on the concept in post 1

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