A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

[Forum Explorer]

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So we now have the Heavens bestowing two miracle artifacts to the cast before the siege even starts. That does bode ill.

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Eh, I feel Cat's jumping the gun here. The finger on the scale usually happens before the fight even begins. The mystical sword, the friendly furry friend, the mystical fountain to bless their armor, whichever. It happens before the fight begins because there wouldn't be time to do it afterwards.

[Rydiro]

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Eh, I feel Cat's jumping the gun here. The finger on the scale usually happens before the fight even begins. The mystical sword, the friendly furry friend, the mystical fountain to bless their armor, whichever. It happens before the fight begins because there wouldn't be time to do it afterwards.

I wonder what limits the amount of miracles Above and Below get. Because they seem to be on the same side for once. "The other side gets a miracle too." doesnt apply here.

Also, another hint for Ranger showing up for the final fight. Unsurprisingly.
Foreshadowing was clear enough.

[lord_khaine]

Well. Nice breathing room chapter. Adorable teasing of Cat by Vivi.
And interesting legacy for Tariq. Im not entirely certain if thats to be considered a miracle from above.

While the Ram certainly is. And yeah your likely correct on Cat jumping the gun slightly.
Generally the way it seems to go, Villains get insane generic power boosts. Like Winter Cat.
And heroes just then get a small nudge thats specifically effective against that.

Like a +1 Fey Bane Spear while your nemesis is working on a ritual to turn into a half fey.
Mostly useless. Until its not.

Same with the Ram. Seems like it will be mostly good for giving Cat a headache.
Until it makes a hole somewhere.

[Dragonus45]

I wonder what limits the amount of miracles Above and Below get. Because they seem to be on the same side for once. "The other side gets a miracle too." doesnt apply here.

Also, another hint for Ranger showing up for the final fight. Unsurprisingly.
Foreshadowing was clear enough.

The alternating sides thing has less to do with above and below specifically then it has to do with story beats and cliches. The Dead King doesn't have to have the blessings of below to need to worry about them and even above and below combined have to worry about it on their end.


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Oh, and the bit with Arthur Foundling being genuinely unsure of his place in Cat's entourage so to speak and how she felt about his not really betrayal was adorable and a great moment for both if them, then he got into the sword naming section and it started a tear out of me. I'm really really not used to that kind of thing from this story. That Sword is going to have a fascinating future, forged of a Star called the greatest Hero of his generation and several other to boot and named by a Villain who was arguably his greatest rival and ally at the same time and the first Warden to boot. Add in that it was specifically named to be the legacy of orphans and the lost and forgotten and we have ourselves a sword that will be making it's way into my next several D&D campaigns.

[Rydiro]

The alternating sides thing has less to do with above and below specifically then it has to do with story beats and cliches. The Dead King doesn't have to have the blessings of below to need to worry about them and even above and below combined have to worry about it on their end.

Story beats, sure. But above and below were churning out named on the side of the living no problem. So there seems to be no other power limiter.
And DKs story is still on halt, he actually does not get any benefits.

[lord_khaine]

EDIT

When you put it like that? yeah.. solid point.
All in all it becomes a legacy only a handful of people can rival or surpass.

Else i think its a little misleading to claim Above and Below have directly been churning out names. A decent number have appeared.
But equally a lot have died fighting the Dead King.

And for the Death King, that the stories of Below is frozen is a huge advantage for him.
As they are not a benefit but a handicap meant to even the scale between "regular" humans and a undead demigod.

[AmberVael]

In today's update, Agnes makes a last minute sprint to make it onto my list of favorite characters, with wild success.

[lord_khaine]

She is kinda adorable.

[Jurai]

So, I wonder if the final battle's going to he the Woe against the Dummy King. We've got Cat as Warden, Hakram as Warlord, Vivienne as Shining Princess, Indrani as Archer, and Masego as Hierophant back together.

[The Glyphstone]

Cat is a shoo-in because she's the Warden, it's literally her job to see the Dead King imprisoned. Indrani is Archer heading into Ranger - tackling Neshamah is definitely in her narrative lane. Masego is both the Heirophant, breaker of would-be gods, and someone with a serious grudge against the DK to boot. So they are definitely going to participate.

Hakram and Vivienne, I find much less likely, because their Names are oriented towards leadership, which puts them in a different story groove. Sure, they're both still capable fighters, but the Warlord's story is about uniting the Clans and forging a new future for the orc race. The Shining Princess is the same but for Callow, the Good heir taking up reins from the Evil Black Queen. It's not...personal for them, I guess, like it is for the other three, so while the Woe is indeed re-united here, I don't see them sallying into Keter as a Band of Five.

[McNum]

I see Cat, Indrani and Masego as good picks for a Band of Five against the Dead King, but I don't see one of those that doesn't involve Hanno somehow. That's his Role here, lead the way for Team Above. If the champion of Team Below is fighting, he should, too. He's on the cusp of a new Name, anyway, it's probably going to be a big one.

The fifth is trickier. Nobody else really has a story link to the Dead King as much as these four. If the story of Above and Below setting aside their differences for this one battle is to come into play, it probably needs to be a Hero. Mirror Knight, perhaps, his Dawn aspect building towards something big is still in play, and, well, this is a battle for the fate of Calernia and he's wielding the Severance. I'd put him as a shoe-in if Arthur didn't just get the Peregrine. But that sword feels more like it's meant for more than just this fight. I have a feeling he'll be needed elsewhere.

[HolyDraconus]

I see Cat, Indrani and Masego as good picks for a Band of Five against the Dead King, but I don't see one of those that doesn't involve Hanno somehow. That's his Role here, lead the way for Team Above. If the champion of Team Below is fighting, he should, too. He's on the cusp of a new Name, anyway, it's probably going to be a big one.

The fifth is trickier. Nobody else really has a story link to the Dead King as much as these four. If the story of Above and Below setting aside their differences for this one battle is to come into play, it probably needs to be a Hero. Mirror Knight, perhaps, his Dawn aspect building towards something big is still in play, and, well, this is a battle for the fate of Calernia and he's wielding the Severance. I'd put him as a shoe-in if Arthur didn't just get the Peregrine. But that sword feels more like it's meant for more than just this fight. I have a feeling he'll be needed elsewhere.

Cat's not the Champion of Below anymore though: she gave that up when she became the Warden. And while Hanno could be still considered the Champion of Above, from the way things are lining up, with how much growth (pun intended) that Mirror Knight has shown, I don't think he's going to get that role either. He's still going to be a force for Good like Cat is for Evil, but his new role I'm betting is going to be around his new job of being an enforcer of the Warden. A sword. I do think he's going to be part of the Five though, and I'm betting right now two internet cookies that the final member of that group is the Bard.

[halfeye]

Cat's not the Champion of Below anymore though: she gave that up when she became the Warden. And while Hanno could be still considered the Champion of Above, from the way things are lining up, with how much growth (pun intended) that Mirror Knight has shown, I don't think he's going to get that role either. He's still going to be a force for Good like Cat is for Evil, but his new role I'm betting is going to be around his new job of being an enforcer of the Warden. A sword. I do think he's going to be part of the Five though, and I'm betting right now two internet cookies that the final member of that group is the Bard.

The Bard? You are very lucky that I loathe and despise internet cookies, because there is a lot more hatred between Cat and The Bard than between Cat and the king of the dead (he's a threat who has to go, but he is not personally hated as much as is The Bard).

[The Glyphstone]

And its mutual. The Bard is more likely to side with the Dead King than Cat.

[InvisibleBison]

The Bard is one of the two main antagonists of the story. The only way she'd help Cat with anything is if she could do it in such a way that would doom Cat's efforts to enact the Liesse Accords, and Cat is far to wise to her tricks these days to fall for any of them.

[lord_khaine]

Why are people calling Vivienne the Shinning Princess?
When did she start to shine?

The fifth is trickier. Nobody else really has a story link to the Dead King as much as these four. If the story of Above and Below setting aside their differences for this one battle is to come into play, it probably needs to be a Hero. Mirror Knight, perhaps, his Dawn aspect building towards something big is still in play, and, well, this is a battle for the fate of Calernia and he's wielding the Severance. I'd put him as a shoe-in if Arthur didn't just get the Peregrine. But that sword feels more like it's meant for more than just this fight. I have a feeling he'll be needed elsewhere.

Well. It was revealed to us that Dawn was actually not serving a secret purpose.
Or more that it had already served its intended purpose. Of forging a small sickly child into a OP titan.
Who for that matter had served his initial purpose by defending the Elfin Dames.

All the same. The Mirror Knight is likely currently the heaviest hitter above has.
And thats before adding the absurdly dangerous sword he will carry. Williams angle feather sword has nothing on the Severance.

[Rynjin]

Why are people calling Vivienne the Shinning Princess?

It's because she has such lovely legs she likes to show off.

[HolyDraconus]

There's precedent though!!

Like Clarice and Lecter, Bond and Jaws, Kirk and Khan, or even more recently, Goku and Freiza. The Bard is TOTALLY going to be a member of that Five, and Cat's plan for the DK blew up when the Ways went down. I'm going to throw some wild speculation out there but I'm betting she's going to finish absorbing the Bard's abilities before this is done (not just the Sword of the Rest either) and being forced to take the Role anyway to pin DK. Bard still wins, DK kinda wins and Cat saves everyone else at the cost of her literal self.

[The Glyphstone]

I'll bet more money on Cat defeating the DK in the final chapter because it is the last chapter of the story and her narrative awareness transcends into true 4th Wall breaking meta-knowledge, where she has a painfully un-subtle conversation directly with the readers about how hackneyed and dumb the ending is. That would be better, and make more sense, than the Bard suddenly joining forces with her.

[Rynjin]

Bard joining the band would be the least narratively satisfying thing conceivably possible, I doubt EE is gonna fumble the ball that hard at teh finish line.

Nobody likes last minute karma houdini **** from villains.

[HolyDraconus]

I'll bet more money on Cat defeating the DK in the final chapter because it is the last chapter of the story and her narrative awareness transcends into true 4th Wall breaking meta-knowledge, where she has a painfully un-subtle conversation directly with the readers about how hackneyed and dumb the ending is. That would be better, and make more sense, than the Bard suddenly joining forces with her.

Bard joining the band would be the least narratively satisfying thing conceivably possible, I doubt EE is gonna fumble the ball that hard at teh finish line.

Nobody likes last minute karma houdini **** from villains.

Why though? I'm not saying the Bard will be redeemed: Frieza sure as hell isn't, as is Lecter to name a couple, but its not UNHEARD of in literature for a Bad Guy to team up with the Good Guy to take out another Bad Guy.

[Rynjin]

Why though? I'm not saying the Bard will be redeemed: Frieza sure as hell isn't, as is Lecter to name a couple, but its not UNHEARD of in literature for a Bad Guy to team up with the Good Guy to take out another Bad Guy.

Think about what all of the other stories you mentioned and their character dynamics have in common and it should come to you.

[Dragonus45]

Didn't Cat literally promise Hakram he would be with her at the final battle with the DK?

[HolyDraconus]

Think about what all of the other stories you mentioned and their character dynamics have in common and it should come to you.

There's no redemption, if anything, its similar to the situation that Frieza was in, with the possibility of the double cross ALSO on the table: help or annihilation. It even goes with the comments that was made earlier on how Cat was acting more and more like the Bard. If she ended up replacing the Bard, she would of came full circle and took from herself.. It could even be seen as devious master stroke.


I'm not saying this is what will happen. But I am saying its a believable possibility.

[Rynjin]

There's no redemption

Correct.

However, what there is is:

1.) Mutual respect (however grudging) between the two parties.

2.) A clear and undeniable defeat at the hands of the good guy for the bad guy.

Neither is the case here. Bard has yet to be truly defeated, and would refuse to acknowledge defeat in any case. Likewise, Cat has zero respect for the Bard, and for good reason.

The closest they're likely to get to a teamup is Cat physically yeeting the Bard at the Dead King for a brief distraction.

[HolyDraconus]

Correct.

However, what there is is:

1.) Mutual respect (however grudging) between the two parties.

2.) A clear and undeniable defeat at the hands of the good guy for the bad guy.

Neither is the case here. Bard has yet to be truly defeated, and would refuse to acknowledge defeat in any case. Likewise, Cat has zero respect for the Bard, and for good reason.

The closest they're likely to get to a teamup is Cat physically yeeting the Bard at the Dead King for a brief distraction.

Frieza doesn't respect Goku. He respected Beerus, and even that wasn't enough for him to not try to double cross his home universe.

[Rynjin]

Frieza doesn't respect Goku. He respected Beerus, and even that wasn't enough for him to not try to double cross his home universe.

Frieza acknowledges Goku's power, and by the end of the arc they definitely have a respect for each other.

As well, there's an immediate goal for Frieza as well: he doesn't want to die. He'll do anything to not die.

Bard, seemingly, has the (or at least a) goal OF dying. Her only desire is to "win" by whatever means necessary, and preserve the status quo. There is no compromise to be made here. Bard is literally the representative of everything Cat wants to tear down.

It literally makes no sense for them to team up, period. They have diametrically opposed goals. Their goals are mutually exclusive to one another. One cannot win without the other losing, and Cat cannot afford to lose again, not this time.

[HolyDraconus]

Frieza acknowledges Goku's power, and by the end of the arc they definitely have a respect for each other.

As well, there's an immediate goal for Frieza as well: he doesn't want to die. He'll do anything to not die.

Bard, seemingly, has the (or at least a) goal OF dying. Her only desire is to "win" by whatever means necessary, and preserve the status quo. There is no compromise to be made here. Bard is literally the representative of everything Cat wants to tear down.

It literally makes no sense for them to team up, period. They have diametrically opposed goals. Their goals are mutually exclusive to one another. One cannot win without the other losing, and Cat cannot afford to lose again, not this time.

Frieza only worked with Goku cause his original plan failed: if it would of worked, he would be alive in another "universe" and Goku would be dead. And even at the end he still doesn't respect Goku. He doesn't bother with going after him cause he isn't that stupid, and he KNOWS Beerus isn't going to interfere since he didn't last time. He's getting stronger, Goku and Vegeta is getting stronger, and until he can get an unsurmountable advantage to use against the saiyans he's just going to keep growing his power base. Hell, the whole point of Broly was Frieza believing that Broly has a decent chance of taken out the other saiyans and if its a wash he didn't invest anything of worth to care. Fast Forward, even without training Broly proved that one on one he CAN take them out.... after the death of his father of course.

The Bard wants to die. But her literal JOB prevents that. DK being against Below AND Above puts him squarely against her. She hates Cat, but it doesn't matter how much she hates her if DK prevents the Bard from pawning her job off to someone else, cause there wont BE anyone else. If DK wins, Bard loses too. Not just Cat. Not just the continent, if not the whole world. The only ones looking to win out of this seems to be the elves and giants, though that's just a matter of attrition, and the gnomes, who I severely suspect are coming from across the ocean.

[Lord Magtok]

Someone remind me again how anything as psychotic as the Dominion of Levant is a Good nation.

[Dragonus45]

Someone remind me again how anything as psychotic as the Dominion of Levant is a Good nation.

You tend to find the absolute worst of any society when you start looking at the politicians and those who scheme in power.