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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Hi everyone! It's BACK! WOOOH!

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    Stuff sucks, Procer is dying and we are shifting focus to Praes.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    I'm kind of surprised Malicia is surprised that Cat didn't do what Malicia expected. Cat's been doing unexpected things for quite some time, after all. It seems odd that Malicia, who's supposed to be very smart, would assume that Cat would take the obvious approach. Perhaps the villian-who-is-about-to-win thing is warping her thinking? On the other hand Malicia has made mistakes before, most notably by thinking she'd be able to actually benefit by holding onto Akua's superweapon. Perhaps she's just not quite as clever as she's made out to be.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    I'm kind of surprised Malicia is surprised that Cat didn't do what Malicia expected. Cat's been doing unexpected things for quite some time, after all. It seems odd that Malicia, who's supposed to be very smart, would assume that Cat would take the obvious approach. Perhaps the villian-who-is-about-to-win thing is warping her thinking? On the other hand Malicia has made mistakes before, most notably by thinking she'd be able to actually benefit by holding onto Akua's superweapon. Perhaps she's just not quite as clever as she's made out to be.
    A think Malicia's problem is she thinks she is the protagonist.
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    She's being deliberately contrasted with Cordelia here to show a good ruler vs a bad one, how Cordelia would die happily if her country survived and Malicia is ruminating on how she has successfully ruined her country in a long civil war so she can come out on top.

    The center piece of Malicia's plan is the assumption that if she is involved Keter will lose the war. Despite references to a time wiped war where Praes already lost, and Keter having just beaten almost everyone else at the same time.

    Cordelia: I would sacrifice myself to save Procer, and sacrifice Procer to save the world.
    Malicia: I would sacrifice the world to save Praes, and sacrifice Praes to save my throne.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    A minor note from the current chapter that was brought up earlier in other places: I wonder if there are going to be parallels drawn between Cat's table and Malicia's "building and Empress' table'. Granted, Cat does use the table, so it may be a moot point, but stands out to me.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Seems to have turned out nice again.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    What happened to the other thread?


    Anyways, I am pretty interested to see how Cat manages this war without it turning into a total ****-storm. Particularly since Malicia is theoretically offering her what she wants in the first place.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    What happened to the other thread?
    80 days with no posts, I should expect. 45 days is the limit for thread necromancy. I suppose someone could probably have asked for, and gotten, an exemption since it wasn't that much over the limit and it was due to a hiatus in the webnovel, but it's probably easier just to start a new thread anyways.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Action ...

    Now waiting for the first serious setback to arrive, hopefully will be a while, but who knows?
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    She's traded a diplomatic loss and a hefty chunk of gold for the life of Squire and a Sword of Damocles over the head of the current Black Knight. All in all, could have gone a lot worse.

    I forget; is it even possible for a Named locked into a pattern of three to be slain by someone other than their adversary (or a demon)?

    EDIT: Granted, it's not a pattern of three until they get a draw. And even then, IIRC the Bard points out that Black would have killed Heiress had he known she'd set up a pattern of three with Cat by scoring a draw, implying it's possible for the story to be snuffed out.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2021-03-19 at 07:37 PM.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    And the food. Dont forget the food, because that was always her primary goal in the first place.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
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    I forget; is it even possible for a Named locked into a pattern of three to be slain by someone other than their adversary (or a demon)?
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    Certainly, if the participants are determined enough to get themselves killed some other way or are subjected to an outside actor who is strong enough to bulldoze past the story. The actors in the pattern would certainly get a narrative boost toward resolving it/getting through things that try to stop them from playing it out - a Hero headed toward their destined victory over their rival Villain would probably get at least one emotional 'No, I can't be stopped here, I have a more important thing to do!' moment in a situation that should have killed them, for example - but it's just a boost. Inexperienced or weak Named manage to lose while being story-boosted all the time.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
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    She's traded a diplomatic loss and a hefty chunk of gold for the life of Squire and a Sword of Damocles over the head of the current Black Knight. All in all, could have gone a lot worse.

    I forget; is it even possible for a Named locked into a pattern of three to be slain by someone other than their adversary (or a demon)?

    EDIT: Granted, it's not a pattern of three until they get a draw. And even then, IIRC the Bard points out that Black would have killed Heiress had he known she'd set up a pattern of three with Cat by scoring a draw, implying it's possible for the story to be snuffed out.
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    Black also explicitly didn't try to deal with William on his own in the first book because Black knew that William had a pattern of three going with Cat and he couldn't interfere. And that was before the draw.

    Black had not even bothered to try tracking the Swordsman after his run-in with Catherine: the confrontation had initiated a pattern of three, and the hero was therefore beyond his reach. The only person who could feasibly kill him now was Squire, unfortunate as that was. Epilogue Book I

    It's really up to authorial fiat what forms a pattern of three and what doesn't. We don't have a good Watsonian explanation for it. Only a Doylist.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    Well that's inconvenient.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    What are the odds that the two remaining waterbreathing potions get shattered at some point during their escapades? Before the Bard showed up I thought it was a sure thing, but now there are lots of other ways for things to go wrong. Still, I'd put it at least 50%.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
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    What are the odds that the two remaining waterbreathing potions get shattered at some point during their escapades? Before the Bard showed up I thought it was a sure thing, but now there are lots of other ways for things to go wrong. Still, I'd put it at least 50%.
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    That seems to be much less of a problem now, they control the source of the water stream and their presence is already known. Secrecy isn't a priority anymore so any number of prearranged signals could tell the army to blow the aqueduct. That would solve the water problem fairly quickly.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
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    What are the odds that the two remaining waterbreathing potions get shattered at some point during their escapades? Before the Bard showed up I thought it was a sure thing, but now there are lots of other ways for things to go wrong. Still, I'd put it at least 50%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
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    That seems to be much less of a problem now, they control the source of the water stream and their presence is already known. Secrecy isn't a priority anymore so any number of prearranged signals could tell the army to blow the aqueduct. That would solve the water problem fairly quickly.
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    Yeah. I give it 50/50 odds on whether they get shattered during this adventure, causing Cat to curse vehemently about how expensive the damn things were, or survive to become a Chekhov's Gun.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
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    Yeah. I give it 50/50 odds on whether they get shattered during this adventure, causing Cat to curse vehemently about how expensive the damn things were, or survive to become a Chekhov's Gun.
    I wonder if they will have to do a different route, since 'aquatic devils' are a known resource Wolof has. Cat probably won't pick up a 'road to Nowhere' trick that slips herself past the wards, but I do expect that we do see her achieve her objectives here. Just with a lute version of Yakkity Sax playing in the background.

    Of course it would be fun to see something like 'Akua couldn't escape, so she just took over Wolof instead.' in the fashion of the Chinese general who failed at a mission, knew that returning to the capital would mean death, so instead went into rebellion and became emperor.

    Since when the 'Everdark crew' gets together, they achieve their objectives in a way that none of them ever saw coming, but in a way that greatly exceeds expectations, so they really cannot complain.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    New chapter up, with a rather fascinating look at Praesi culture/ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Akuas arc is the best thing about this story. I hope she doesn't get killed off at the end. Though i fear thats what is going to happen. The easy way out.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Akuas arc is the best thing about this story. I hope she doesn't get killed off at the end. Though i fear thats what is going to happen. The easy way out.
    I don't the PGtE is about the 'easy way out' though.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    There is also the Long Price to consider. I find it vanishingly unlikely that Akua will be alive when the story draws to its end, but simply dying/being killed won't be enough to satisfy Cat for what she did at Liesse. My money is on Redemption Equals Death right now via voluntary Heroic Sacrifice, but that is also very predictable so I'm not betting heavy.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2021-03-29 at 09:03 AM.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    There is also the Long Price to consider. I find it vanishingly unlikely that Akua will be alive when the story draws to its end, but simply dying/being killed won't be enough to satisfy Cat for what she did at Liesse. My money is on Redemption Equals Death right now via voluntary Heroic Sacrifice, but that is also very predictable so I'm not betting heavy.
    My long shot guess is Akua is forced to take Bard's name as her eternal redemption.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    I'm going with Akua becoming the seal keeping the Dead King in the Hells.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    The ocean's 11 arc continues! I'm thinking all of the big mistakes come from their attempt at escaping, no way things continue this smoothly now that they are inside.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    The ocean's 11 arc continues! I'm thinking all of the big mistakes come from their attempt at escaping, no way things continue this smoothly now that they are inside.
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    Yeah, things are definitely about to go wrong. The infiltration has worked so far because it's the first step of a villain's plan. Now, though, all bets are off.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I'm going with Akua becoming the seal keeping the Dead King in the Hells.
    I think becoming a good person, despite there being no redemption to be had would be an interesting conclusion. Doing it, because its the right thing to do, not for some prize. And please without the hollow emo-ness of Contrition.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    I think becoming a good person, despite there being no redemption to be had would be an interesting conclusion. Doing it, because its the right thing to do, not for some prize. And please without the hollow emo-ness of Contrition.
    I think that's the crux of it. Akua has to become a good person on her own merits, then punished for the Folly. Otherwise it won't hurt enough, because she still won't feel she did anything wrong.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Akua has to become a good person on her own merits, then punished for the Folly. Otherwise it won't hurt enough, because she still won't feel she did anything wrong.
    That is a very Callowan sentiment. Akua hurting after she becomes a good person will help absolutely no one. At that point you just punish her for becoming good. Which is a bad message to send.
    Sometimes Justice is impossible. And it wouldn't diminish Cat if her long-time revenge plot fails and produces a good person instead of meaningless revenge.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    That is a very Callowan sentiment. Akua hurting after she becomes a good person will help absolutely no one. At that point you just punish her for becoming good. Which is a bad message to send.
    Sometimes Justice is impossible. And it wouldn't diminish Cat if her long-time revenge plot fails and produces a good person instead of meaningless revenge.
    No, but that doesn't mean it still isn't her goal. Like you said, its a very Callowan outlook. Akua/Cat are Praesi and Callow personified, as we see every time they have a discussion. She might fail, but I think its what her Long Price is aiming at.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    That is a very Callowan sentiment. Akua hurting after she becomes a good person will help absolutely no one. At that point you just punish her for becoming good. Which is a bad message to send.
    Sometimes Justice is impossible. And it wouldn't diminish Cat if her long-time revenge plot fails and produces a good person instead of meaningless revenge.
    My read on it is that becoming a good person is the punishment for the Folly, because hypothetical good Akua would be capable of understanding the wrong she did and empathizing with her victims along the way. Cat will not need to subject Akua to any further punishments at that point - Akua will come to the understanding on her own that while there is no atonement, she still must try. The personal torment she'll place on herself to try to achieve an impossible goal will theoretically exceed anything Cat could do to her. (If she were to become a Hero, this actually would align her neatly with Contrition. She would almost certainly reject the offer, tho, since even hypothetical redemption-seeking Akua is not going to subject herself to the whims of Angels.)

    (I don't think this was Cat's original plan, but then I don't think Cat had an original plan in this regard - she was just keeping Akua around to use as a tool until some suitably grand punishment occurred to her, and then character development happened.)
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2021-04-01 at 02:25 PM.

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