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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Is it hubris when you feel like you are running out of options?

    As in, Cat isn't invading for personal glory akin to Alexander the Great. She is literally at war with Malicia since Praes is allied with the Dead King.

    As for 'personal vengeance', I think it is worth noting that while Cat has ulterior motives, her actual actions with Akua since Keter has been 'give a former enemy a second chance'. Cat's rejection of Akua is only on the romantic side here, she didn't banish Akua.
    She also didn't do anything to soften the blow, or keep Akua on their side. In fact she openly states she planned for Akua to switch sides so she could break her completely in preparation for making her into a living lock. The hubris is assuming she has enough of an advantage to win the war on foreign grounds, in a way that perfectly suits her designs (IE not working with Sepulchral or the lost legions because she wants Praes reformed), and ditches her most important ally for the job to the enemy. It is all very similar to her invasion of the underdark, or the Proceran invasion of Callow. Refusing to compromise and assuming the world can be changed to meet your vision for it.

    By the logic of the story Cat should lose this war like everyone else who makes that choice does, so I am assuming Amadeus totally changes what is happening when he comes center stage.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    She also didn't do anything to soften the blow, or keep Akua on their side. In fact she openly states she planned for Akua to switch sides so she could break her completely in preparation for making her into a living lock. The hubris is assuming she has enough of an advantage to win the war on foreign grounds, in a way that perfectly suits her designs (IE not working with Sepulchral or the lost legions because she wants Praes reformed), and ditches her most important ally for the job to the enemy. It is all very similar to her invasion of the underdark, or the Proceran invasion of Callow. Refusing to compromise and assuming the world can be changed to meet your vision for it.

    By the logic of the story Cat should lose this war like everyone else who makes that choice does, so I am assuming Amadeus totally changes what is happening when he comes center stage.
    I'm at the point where I'm assuming Amadeus' plan ends up working. Partially because he's a villain, and the first step of the plan works. So he's making a plan that is only one step. Sure he might die or be overthrown immediately afterwards, but he won't care because the 'mold' of Praes will be permanently broken by then.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I'm at the point where I'm assuming Amadeus' plan ends up working. Partially because he's a villain, and the first step of the plan works. So he's making a plan that is only one step. Sure he might die or be overthrown immediately afterwards, but he won't care because the 'mold' of Praes will be permanently broken by then.
    Yeah I imagine Praes gets wrecked in such a way that it doesn't help them much against Keter, so angel ex nukea gets used.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Somehow I don't really envy Malicia if her goal is to put Cat at a disadvantage to be willing to negotiate. Being at a disadvantage is where Cat does her best work.

    Such as turning being cornered by a superior force led by the new Black Knight into crossing a lake on foot and taking over a fortress just in time for everything to get crazy and every plan shatter to the magnificent chaos that is Catherine Foundling.

    I have no idea what's going to happen next and that greatly amuses me. That's usually when the Guide gets fun.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Somehow I don't really envy Malicia if her goal is to put Cat at a disadvantage to be willing to negotiate. Being at a disadvantage is where Cat does her best work.

    Such as turning being cornered by a superior force led by the new Black Knight into crossing a lake on foot and taking over a fortress just in time for everything to get crazy and every plan shatter to the magnificent chaos that is Catherine Foundling.

    I have no idea what's going to happen next and that greatly amuses me. That's usually when the Guide gets fun.
    Im gonna hazard a guess and say we learn first hand the effects of the angel nuke next. Being in a three way dance is something Cat has done before so i doubt it be treaded again so quickly.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    So we learn a lot this chapter. Hakram is slowly being moved towards taking control of the horde, Banjo is going to recruit the last Titan to help save mankind (as the foil to using the angel) and thinks Procer is going towards a villain kingdom.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    So we learn a lot this chapter. Hakram is slowly being moved towards taking control of the horde, Banjo is going to recruit the last Titan to help save mankind (as the foil to using the angel) and thinks Procer is going towards a villain kingdom.
    You missed one more..
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    there is another going for the Name of White Knight as Hanno moves towards another Name. In Salia. And who do we know that is there?

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    You missed one more..
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    there is another going for the Name of White Knight as Hanno moves towards another Name. In Salia. And who do we know that is there?
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    I think you may have misread that one? I believe the implication is that there is another claimant in Salia for the new Name the White Knight is in the running for. Which means the most obvious Name is "Warden of the West," therefore the other claimant would be Cordellia. Which could nice put the two at odds, and aligns with Hano's thoughts about her in this Interlude.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
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    I think you may have misread that one? I believe the implication is that there is another claimant in Salia for the new Name the White Knight is in the running for. Which means the most obvious Name is "Warden of the West," therefore the other claimant would be Cordellia. Which could nice put the two at odds, and aligns with Hano's thoughts about her in this Interlude.
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    Makes hannos misconceptions about cordelia even more glaringly obvious. At the same time elbow deep in evil and claimant for a good name. Funny how that works.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    So we get Laurence's backstory and it's pretty good. The irony that she was taken in for not striking when she didn't have to developing into someone who strikes automatically to power her name is quite interesting. She basically becomes the opposite of her teacher in moral regard due to her desire to avenge him.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
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    Makes hannos misconceptions about cordelia even more glaringly obvious. At the same time elbow deep in evil and claimant for a good name. Funny how that works.
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    Well, that assumes it is a good name. No reason it couldn't be one of the flexible names, either the ones where an individual Named can be Hero or Villain depending on the story (e.g. Ranger) or where depending on the Named they will be either Hero or Villain all the time (e.g. Squire, Tyrant of Helike).
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
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    I think you may have misread that one? I believe the implication is that there is another claimant in Salia for the new Name the White Knight is in the running for. Which means the most obvious Name is "Warden of the West," therefore the other claimant would be Cordellia. Which could nice put the two at odds, and aligns with Hano's thoughts about her in this Interlude.
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    you are right. My apologies.

    New chapter up.
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    if there was any doubt that the Name Cat was growing into was going to be monstrous, it’s gone now. Like... damn. Malicia got jacked up that badly by being told to shut up?!

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Its certainly interesting how this is going to unfold. Everyone still has their plots in the air.
    But at the moment. Then i now make the prediction that its Akua that will end up as empress.

    It is kinda interesting how despite all her plotting she wont hear the song.
    I suspect its because she lost faith in what she were doing. In the plotting and scheming that is.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    I haven't been entirely on board with The Plan with Akua since I still think the timing for the ideal punishment passed a long time ago, but the sheer suffering in her internal monologue here has been quite enjoyable. Perhaps Cat was onto something after all.
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    I haven't been entirely on board with The Plan with Akua since I still think the timing for the ideal punishment passed a long time ago, but the sheer suffering in her internal monologue here has been quite enjoyable. Perhaps Cat was onto something after all.
    Eh, I no longer think Akua should be punished at all. It serves no purpose, she is no longer the person she used to be. Time to turn her completely to Good seems to be running out too, considering she has to complete a career in Praes first.
    That said, I didn't quite get what Akuas problem in the last interlude was. The thing about not getting into the campfire/inner circle.
    Last edited by Rydiro; 2021-05-10 at 05:40 AM.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Eh, I no longer think Akua should be punished at all. It serves no purpose, she is no longer the person she used to be. Time to turn her completely to Good seems to be running out too, considering she has to complete a career in Praes first.
    That said, I didn't quite get what Akuas problem in the last interlude was. The thing about not getting into the campfire/inner circle.
    I’m just making a guess but I’m assuming that she’s comparing herself to malicia in that instance. That she realized that while initially she did what she did to have some control, she came to the realization that she actually wanted to be there. But they weren’t fooled by her words. It’s one of those “action speaks louder” things and she didn’t follow through.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Eh, I no longer think Akua should be punished at all. It serves no purpose, she is no longer the person she used to be.
    Well yes, that was sort of the point. The person she was was so far gone down the rabbit hole she functionally could barely even be punished because even the worst of possible fates, being tied to her mortal enemy as a shade forever, was just fair play to her. She had to become a better version of herself so she would actually be capable of suffering for all her mass murder and Evil.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Eh, I no longer think Akua should be punished at all. It serves no purpose, she is no longer the person she used to be. Time to turn her completely to Good seems to be running out too, considering she has to complete a career in Praes first.
    That said, I didn't quite get what Akuas problem in the last interlude was. The thing about not getting into the campfire/inner circle.
    Her punishment is being that different person. Nothing has changed. Frig, people are actually her friends. But yeah, the shadow of her mass murder does still hang over her. People might be able to enjoy being around her despite that, but it very much does hang over them. So yeah, Cat and others can't fully forgive her for that. In Cat's case, this completely prevents Akua and her from ever having a relationship. And that breaks Akua's heart. She wants to be with Cat, but that's impossible.

    Cat's plan, her revenge if you will, is based entirely on Akua's own guilty conscious making her choose to sacrifice herself to act as the Warden of the Dead King's prison. Personally? I don't think it will work. Though I would find it absolutely hilarious if she became an agent of Contrition instead.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    So yeah, Cat and others can't fully forgive her for that. In Cat's case, this completely prevents Akua and her from ever having a relationship.
    I mostly agree with you. Cat is a massive hypocritical control freak though. She never was Akuas friend, but planned for her to suffer all along. Malicia is exactly right, Cat would forgive Hakram killing a hundred thousand without batting an eye.
    Its really like Cats "love" with killian. She actually only cares for this other person as long as they conform to her ideas. She makes exceptions for the Woe and old friends, because they keep her somewhat sane.
    She even plans for Akua to switch sides and then she is angry Akua has to do military actions against her army.
    Last edited by Rydiro; 2021-05-10 at 03:21 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    I mostly agree with you. Cat is a massive hypocritical control freak though. She never was Akuas friend, but planned for her to suffer all along. Malicia is exactly right, Cat would forgive Hakram killing a hundred thousand without batting an eye.
    Its really like Cats "love" with killian. She actually only cares for this other person as long as they conform to her ideas. She makes exceptions for the Woe and old friends, because they keep her somewhat sane.
    She even plans for Akua to switch sides and then she is angry Akua has to do military actions against her army.
    I'd agree that Cat is a massive control freak, she always has been. A hypocrite too, though to be fair, it isn't so much that Akua killed hundred thousand people, it's that she killed one hundred thousand Callowans. Cat is still evil, and she very much operates on a 'mine first' kind of morality. I mean, if it wasn't for the Dead King, she'd be fully on board with Black's rampage through Procur.

    Anyways, I'd argue that Cat never wanted to become Akua's friend, but found herself liking Akua despite herself. Still she had to get her revenge () so she went forward with her plan regardless.

    But I'm not trying to justify it in any way. I'm of the opinion that long elaborate revenges are stupid. You get your enemy in your grasp? You end them in as decisive manner as possible and then move on with your bloody life. Or you try and rehabilitate them/redeem them. None of this middle ground BS.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    But I'm not trying to justify it in any way. I'm of the opinion that long elaborate revenges are stupid. You get your enemy in your grasp? You end them in as decisive manner as possible and then move on with your bloody life. Or you try and rehabilitate them/redeem them. None of this middle ground BS.
    This. It's mostly a miracle things have gone this well with a viper like Akua and it's a tragedy that the stakes were so high they had to let her out and about for so long after the drow incident. Although a slightly more elaborate plan then just execution could have worked just as well. Taking her the night she admitted she had finally grasped she could have had warmth and friendship by the fireside all along and then tossing her back into some very sturdy object before burying it in the foundation of some random building to sit for all eternity in the void. Just elaborate enough to get the desired outcome of punishing a person who actually has reached the point they understand what they did wrong but not so elaborate it gets a ton of your people killed and potentially just lets her off the leash to cause sever harm to you and yours.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    But I'm not trying to justify it in any way. I'm of the opinion that long elaborate revenges are stupid. You get your enemy in your grasp? You end them in as decisive manner as possible and then move on with your bloody life. Or you try and rehabilitate them/redeem them. None of this middle ground BS.
    Yeah. I do agree to a large part. As Rydiro mentioned earlier. The Doom of Liesse died a while ago.
    Punishment would be a little silly. Just about everyone is soaked in the blood of the innocent anyway. Certainly Cats hands are not much cleaner.

    But well. I guess in this complicated case. The middle ground were more for a chance to lock the Dead King up forever.

    Else. Akua's entire storyarc has been really interesting so far.
    Im really savoring the twists and turns. Especially since Cat stole her heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    This. It's mostly a miracle things have gone this well with a viper like Akua and it's a tragedy that the stakes were so high they had to let her out and about for so long after the drow incident. Although a slightly more elaborate plan then just execution could have worked just as well. Taking her the night she admitted she had finally grasped she could have had warmth and friendship by the fireside all along and then tossing her back into some very sturdy object before burying it in the foundation of some random building to sit for all eternity in the void. Just elaborate enough to get the desired outcome of punishing a person who actually has reached the point they understand what they did wrong but not so elaborate it gets a ton of your people killed and potentially just lets her off the leash to cause sever harm to you and yours.
    That just sounds like the start of something where she rises from the dead twice as powerful as before to threaten Callow in Cats twilight years, forcing Cat to sacrifice herself to buy whoever comes after her time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    That just sounds like the start of something where she rises from the dead twice as powerful as before to threaten Callow in Cats twilight years, forcing Cat to sacrifice herself to buy whoever comes after her time.
    That's a good point - Catherine's not just pushing for a punishment, but for a self-executing punishment. One that constructs its own narrative so that the beliefs of the world enforce it in perpetuity.
    Last edited by uncool; 2021-05-11 at 12:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    That just sounds like the start of something where she rises from the dead twice as powerful as before to threaten Callow in Cats twilight years, forcing Cat to sacrifice herself to buy whoever comes after her time.
    Trope: Unspoken plan guarantee - now that Cat explained her plan with Akua and the Dead King it wont come about as she plans or even fail completely.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    New chapter, new spoilers. Simple but good. And expected

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    A Chekhov's Gun 5 years in the making. And from another Chapter 19, no less. Very nice.
    Last edited by uncool; 2021-05-22 at 01:06 AM.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by uncool View Post
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    A Chekhov's Gun 5 years in the making. And from another Chapter 19, no less. Very nice.
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    In all likelihood, the information presented this late in the game will be moved to earlier in the series. My understanding is that EE plans to rewrite the series in publishing to have Praes be more explored in Book 2, so that the information isn't so backloaded in the final book. It'll make the gun fire a lot straighter for people.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    When was the 13th legion discussed before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    When was the 13th legion discussed before?
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    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...pter-19-pivot/
    “Our history teacher is from there,” Nauk said. “Used to be part of the Thirteenth.”
    Ah, the famous Traitor Legion. Legio XIII, Auxilia. It had been raised in the wake of the Conquest, made up mostly of former bandits and mercenaries. Every Callowan with a grudge against the throne had flocked to the banner, and they’d been instrumental in making sure the south surrendered after the fall of the capital – the prospect of that band of armed malcontents sacking their way through the southern cities had been utterly horrifying to the few remaining nobles.
    And it's a Chekhov's Gun inserted in the right way: used for one purpose in the moment (to explore Callowan politics a bit and Praesi politics quite a bit more), only to be repurposed (or rather, to have the real purpose shown) much, much later.

    A few others:
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...ter-12-string/
    The Thirteenth did, having been raised from Callowan bandits and rebels, but only six hundred horsemen or so.
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...ter-3-demesne/
    The Thirteenth Legion was garrisoned there and, having been raised out of Callowan rebels and criminals, actually had a cavalry contingent
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...pter-34-talks/
    “Even the Thirteenth Legion only has a thousand riders.”
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...12/31/prodigy/
    “I thought there was a decree about the Thirteenth Legion getting first pick of mounts out of the provinces,” he said.
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...-intervention/
    What few war horses had remained were either closely kept by the last of the Callowan aristocracy or by law set aside for the use of the Legions of Terror – in specific the Thirteenth, which had been raised from Callowan bandits and rebels in the first place.
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...hapter-3-cost/
    but no Callowans. They had a preferred tavern of their own, I’d been informed, run by a retired member of the Thirteenth Legion. I could understand the urge to cling to what you knew, but that didn’t make it any less of a problem for me. Off-duty is where friendships are made.
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...r-33-promises/
    We’ve never managed to secure more horses than needed to replenish the ranks of the Thirteenth Legion without risking rebellion.
    https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...3-moroks-plan/
    I’m not getting posted in Thalassina with the Thirteenth to break up bickering merchants.”
    So this is bigger than I remembered - this is basically the only real cavalry the Legion has.
    Last edited by uncool; 2021-05-22 at 10:10 AM.

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