A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

[lord_khaine]

This was a good Chekhov's Gun.
All the revelant bits were revealed quite a bit in the past.
And in hindsight it makes sense.

[Tvtyrant]

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So the battle lines continue. One thing I love about this story is that warfare is much more grounded and real than most fantasy stories, despite all the magic. Troops movements, emphasis on the exact fortification lines, exchanging softening barrages. The author is a battle nerd and it shows.

[The Glyphstone]

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How many sides in this fight are we up to now? We have the Army of Callow, the Rebel Legions, the Loyalist Legions, now two separate groups of Sepulchral's forces, plus Malicia sticking her oar in (and yes, I'm counting the Empress as a separate faction to her Legions).

[InvisibleBison]

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How many sides in this fight are we up to now? We have the Army of Callow, the Rebel Legions, the Loyalist Legions, now two separate groups of Sepulchral's forces, plus Malicia sticking her oar in (and yes, I'm counting the Empress as a separate faction to her Legions).

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If you're counting Malicia as a separate faction, you should probably also count Akua as her own faction.

[The Glyphstone]

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If you're counting Malicia as a separate faction, you should probably also count Akua as her own faction.

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I didn't count Akua because she's not - in her own mind, at least - actively trying to undermine her supposed faction. She's conflicted, and not putting her full effort into it as a result, but she's not disloyal. To the contrary, warning Marshal Nim about the Pattern of Three she was almost baited into makes her more loyal to the Loyalist faction in a way. Malicia is, as has been pointed out both in and out of universe, playing her own game by ensuring every army still standing at the end of the day is too weak to be a threat to her, including her own 'Loyalist' legions.

[Tvtyrant]

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I didn't count Akua because she's not - in her own mind, at least - actively trying to undermine her supposed faction. She's conflicted, and not putting her full effort into it as a result, but she's not disloyal. To the contrary, warning Marshal Nim about the Pattern of Three she was almost baited into makes her more loyal to the Loyalist faction in a way. Malicia is, as has been pointed out both in and out of universe, playing her own game by ensuring every army still standing at the end of the day is too weak to be a threat to her, including her own 'Loyalist' legions.

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That was Akua's point to Nim. Nim thinks she works for Malicia, Malicia thinks everyone is a threat to her regardless of their personal loyalty. She would hamstring her own army to prevent a barely existent possibility of disloyalty, murders the closest to siding with her members of the traitor legions, and overall is in exactly the same scenario as they were trying to prevent when they put her on the throne. The throne has driven Malicia mad.

I am also going to avoid talking about Akua as much as possible as it tends to kill of the conversation haha

[Alandra]

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I didn't count Akua because she's not - in her own mind, at least - actively trying to undermine her supposed faction. She's conflicted, and not putting her full effort into it as a result, but she's not disloyal. To the contrary, warning Marshal Nim about the Pattern of Three she was almost baited into makes her more loyal to the Loyalist faction in a way. Malicia is, as has been pointed out both in and out of universe, playing her own game by ensuring every army still standing at the end of the day is too weak to be a threat to her, including her own 'Loyalist' legions.

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Isn't she? She was surprised that she didn't hear the tower song, so she is at least telling herself that she wants to become the empress. And she only told Marshal Nim about the pattern of three because she tried to turn her against the empress and was a bit more honest than she actually planned to be.

[The Glyphstone]

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Isn't she? She was surprised that she didn't hear the tower song, so she is at least telling herself that she wants to become the empress. And she only told Marshal Nim about the pattern of three because she tried to turn her against the empress and was a bit more honest than she actually planned to be.

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I think thats part of why I wasn't counting Akua separately yet - she doesn't even honestly know what side she is on yet. Malicia is very firmly on Malicia's side and no one else's.

[lord_khaine]

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Akua's situation continues to be so lovely intriguing. It really seems like she is mostly going though the motions without really believing in them.
Also hilariously. I think she has become a better person than Cat.

[HolyDraconus]

New chapter up. I’m starting to think that that gun is on full auto.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Read this whole chapter listening to "Love Bites" by the Aviators. A surprisingly good pairing.

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[The Glyphstone]

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Akua's situation continues to be so lovely intriguing. It really seems like she is mostly going though the motions without really believing in them.
Also hilariously. I think she has become a better person than Cat.

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Considering Cat has gradually become a worse person, or at least less moral, that would only be appropriate. Its like that line from OOTS about Belkar and Mr Scruffy and how they average south of neutral.

[lord_khaine]

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Considering Cat has gradually become a worse person, or at least less moral, that would only be appropriate. Its like that line from OOTS about Belkar and Mr Scruffy and how they average south of neutral.

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Well more. Its almost kinda tragic. Belkar has been drifting upwards to a baseline point slightly below being just normally egoistic.
Akua has improved to the kind of person who goes out of her way to offer mercy.

And Cat? Cat has degressed to a point where i no longer think she has any moral ground to stand on, when it comes to lecturing the Doom of Liesse.
Not after she murdered a couple of random servants just to send a message.

I mean. Thats it. After you murder innocents in cold blood, then its fairly limited how much space there is left to fall.

[Mith]

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Well more. Its almost kinda tragic. Belkar has been drifting upwards to a baseline point slightly below being just normally egoistic.
Akua has improved to the kind of person who goes out of her way to offer mercy.

And Cat? Cat has degressed to a point where i no longer think she has any moral ground to stand on, when it comes to lecturing the Doom of Liesse.
Not after she murdered a couple of random servants just to send a message.

I mean. Thats it. After you murder innocents in cold blood, then its fairly limited how much space there is left to fall.

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I am not saying Cat is secretly a Good person, but why does the execution of the servants used in espionage strike you as particularly egregious, and not the poisoning of the water supply that she notes will also impact civilian populations? Every spy has a first mission after all.

She never really had much moral standing. At best, it was about the same moral standing as Tariq, since Mercy didn't actually give him a means to determine the 'best course of action'.

[Tvtyrant]

The name of the story is A Practical Guide To Evil afterall. Cat's always been up front about being in the villain camp for the sake of ramming disarmament treaties through. Her charisma comes from having the highest ambition, wanting to change the rules instead of playing by them like everyone else.

[Dragonus45]

From very very early on Cat has clearly been absolute trash of a human being. To the point where I regularly just get tired of her, and more often Amadeus who would have to sit next to histories greatest monsters to find peers, regularly get me to drop the story for a break. The knowledge that she likely won’t face a terrible end is fairly disheartening as well. It’s hardly news that she is a monster.

[lord_khaine]

I am not saying Cat is secretly a Good person, but why does the execution of the servants used in espionage strike you as particularly egregious, and not the poisoning of the water supply that she notes will also impact civilian populations? Every spy has a first mission after all.

Its a problem when there are a choice of atrocity to pick from.
The poisoning of water supplies were a wartime action taken, that unfortunately also affected civilians as collatoral damage.

Executing a couple of messengers to send a message to their master though?
That does not have the excuse of being a hard choice taken out of nececity. It lack any mitigating factor.
There were no actual need to kill them, except for Cat being a monster on the line of Asmodeus.

From very very early on Cat has clearly been absolute trash of a human being. To the point where I regularly just get tired of her, and more often Amadeus who would have to sit next to histories greatest monsters to find peers, regularly get me to drop the story for a break. The knowledge that she likely won’t face a terrible end is fairly disheartening as well. It’s hardly news that she is a monster.

She has been more trash and less trash at times. Unfortunately, she has recently taken a solid step towards more trash.

edit.
Well. And i just then find it simply hilarious, that Akua, of -all- people, are now starting to be a better person.

[Rydiro]

To the point where I regularly just get tired of her, and more often Amadeus who would have to sit next to histories greatest monsters to find peers, regularly get me to drop the story for a break.

What is it about Amadeus that you dislike? I havent found him to be too evil. Maybe i forgot things.

[Mith]

What is it about Amadeus that you dislike? I havent found him to be too evil. Maybe i forgot things.

Well the whole orphanage system was designed to detect proto heroes to be murdered before the Heavens gave them momentum, for one. Kinda found his objections about Hye's raising of the kids to be a bit hypocritical, personally.

He also burned out a good chunk of Proceran farmland. That will have made many starve to death. 'Lean times' still mean many do not make it through.

His use of ironic punishments for nobles also come to mind as well. Just because we dislike people doesn't mean forcing them to eat until their stomach ruptures isn't torture.

Amadeus is definitely a monster.

[Rydiro]

Well the whole orphanage system was designed to detect proto heroes to be murdered before the Heavens gave them momentum, for one. Kinda found his objections about Hye's raising of the kids to be a bit hypocritical, personally.

He also burned out a good chunk of Proceran farmland. That will have made many starve to death. 'Lean times' still mean many do not make it through.

His use of ironic punishments for nobles also come to mind as well. Just because we dislike people doesn't mean forcing them to eat until their stomach ruptures isn't torture.

Amadeus is definitely a monster.

The orphanage system also makes sure you have less heroes simply by improving living conditions of orphans. Give them less reason to revolt by actually making their lives better.
Amadeus policies often have this double effect. Improve living conditions AND his control. He is basically a benevolent dictator. A dictator nontheless.

Burning farmland is, as far as medieval warfare goes, nothing extraordinary. An attack on the army food supply chain. None of the good guys ever cared about starving Praesi. And a history of robbing Praes of grain by the good guys exists too.

I'll concede the torture of nobles.

[lord_khaine]

The orphanage system also makes sure you have less heroes simply by improving living conditions of orphans. Give them less reason to revolt by actually making their lives better.
Amadeus policies often have this double effect. Improve living conditions AND his control. He is basically a benevolent dictator. A dictator nontheless.

He is also a killer of children and babies.
He isnt benevolent. Thats an emotion thats alien to him i would claim.
He is ruthlessly efficient. And recognise petty stuff gets in the way of efficiency.

Burning farmland is, as far as medieval warfare goes, nothing extraordinary. An attack on the army food supply chain. None of the good guys ever cared about starving Praesi. And a history of robbing Praes of grain by the good guys exists too.

Its still an attack on the innocent. Does not make something less awful if others did it.
And im actually kinda certain your mixing stuff up. It was Praes robbing the good guys of grain. Not the other way around.

[Dragonus45]

Well the whole orphanage system was designed to detect proto heroes to be murdered before the Heavens gave them momentum, for one. Kinda found his objections about Hye's raising of the kids to be a bit hypocritical, personally.

He also burned out a good chunk of Proceran farmland. That will have made many starve to death. 'Lean times' still mean many do not make it through.

His use of ironic punishments for nobles also come to mind as well. Just because we dislike people doesn't mean forcing them to eat until their stomach ruptures isn't torture.

Amadeus is definitely a monsters.

And his actual literal cultural genocide of an enemy nation. Plus I think he is a smug ****stain on the underwear of the universe and the Calamities are ridiculously OP. Which only really annoys me because he has that whole rant about how heroes cheat and the narrative of evil losing is bad and he just wants the genocidal madman to get his win for once... in a story where the narrative bends over backwards for him and his philosophies and actively cheats for him. **** that guy.

[Rydiro]

Its still an attack on the innocent. Does not make something less awful if others did it.
And im actually kinda certain your mixing stuff up. It was Praes robbing the good guys of grain. Not the other way around.

There was a recent chapter about paladins demanding 'taxes' from the Green Stretch. You know, as invaders do. And they certainly did not care much about the wellbeing of the invaded.
There do not seem to be any Calernian conventions against the practice, so holding Amadeus to that standard is absurd. Procer just did not want to dispatch enough military to secure its borders and stop him. Nor did they want to give their supplies to those starving people. You know, its arguably Procers decision to not feed its citizens and its armies instead.
Edit: Starving your enemies into surrender is basically how most sieges worked.

[Mith]

There was a recent chapter about paladins demanding 'taxes' from the Green Stretch. You know, as invaders do. And they certainly did not care much about the wellbeing of the invaded.
There do not seem to be any Calernian conventions against the practice, so holding Amadeus to that standard is absurd. Procer just did not want to dispatch enough military to secure its borders and stop him. Nor did they want to give their supplies to those starving people. You know, its arguably Procers decision to not feed its citizens and its armies instead.
Edit: Starving your enemies into surrender is basically how most sieges worked.

I was more making the point that he has done monstrous things. I can understand his perspective such as wholesale antihalation of the Order of the White Hand with absolute glee. And my point is more that Amadeus has very much an 'us and them' attitude that makes him an absolute monster to those he deems 'them'. However those he considers under the 'us' side is still probably much broader than initially assumed at the beginning of the series. At least I am pretty certain his speech at Second Liesse is genuine. I don't think the narrative goes out of the way to prove him right in all cases, I think his legitimate grievance makes him a 'Hero' sponsored by Below. He is literally a farm boy who buried his parents and picked up a sword against the Dark Emperor in the Tower. His banner was the underclasses of Praes.

Speaking of conventions, there are none. It's notable that Cat's Articles of Strife are going to be the first of such conventions.

I don't go on about him being the absolute worst, because the point of the series is that there is no 'one' monster. Tariq's championing of Mercy draws a lot of similar results in cases as well.

[Dragonus45]

I don't go on about him being the absolute worst, because the point of the series is that there is no 'one' monster. Tariq's championing of Mercy draws a lot of similar results in cases as well.

Really? I would love to hear about the time Tariq conquered an enemy nation, slaughtered infants in the crib just to ensure they could never be threat to him, tried to wipe out an entire cultural identity of said enemy nation, and created a military doctrine that literally doesn't believe in the concept of a war crime.

[Forum Explorer]

Really? I would love to hear about the time Tariq conquered an enemy nation, slaughtered infants in the crib just to ensure they could never be threat to him, tried to wipe out an entire cultural identity of said enemy nation, and created a military doctrine that literally doesn't believe in the concept of a war crime.

Well he did murder his nephew or niece when they wanted to go to war with Procer. And was willing to have Callow be reduced to a province of Procer instead of taking a peace deal that would have allowed them to focus on Malica immediately.

So I think the only one missing is the military doctrine. Everything else he did in some manner or another.

[Dragonus45]

Well he did murder his nephew or niece when they wanted to go to war with Procer. And was willing to have Callow be reduced to a province of Procer instead of taking a peace deal that would have allowed them to focus on Malica immediately.

So I think the only one missing is the military doctrine. Everything else he did in some manner or another.

Talk about a stretch, did the Wii Fit Trainer help you warm up here?

[druid91]

I mean, Tariq killed an entire town without batting an eye, as well as everyone even tangentially related to him.

Is it really so surprising to consider he might kill infants for his ideals given he almost certainly killed infants for his ideals?

[Forum Explorer]

Talk about a stretch, did the Wii Fit Trainer help you warm up here?

It's about as accurate as your statement.

[Mith]

In addition to the previous statements, I would also point to the fact that the events seen on screen are not exceptional for Tariq. He probably had a sufficiently large list of bloody deeds that can add up to an equivalent to Amadeus. I know it's not explicitly stated, but given how others react to him, can one really be surprised that his hand was often red as it was pale, to quote Ishaq?

And Laurence was a mirror of the Ranger as she became the one who went around cleaning up messes. While she probably doesn't have the 'soft touch' that Tariq had with Mercy, she was perfectly OK with throwing an entire nation-state into a war to the death of a Crusade. Yes Cordelia had already started that, but the Saint through accelerant on the fire.

Above is not Good in this case. They also view people as a means to an end for their personal side of the Wager. Considering Cat's communion with Below when attempting to save Hune, I suspect that there may be parts of Below and Above that have some form of affection for mortals, but I don't think it's universal that Above cares more for people than Below.

The Law aspect of Above may give a tendency of it's champions to be less of a detriment to society, it's not that those champions are superior in every way.

As far as what Amadeus perspective on the world, is it not just fury of having the Paladins conducting 'virtuous' raids? How would the culture that is the Green Stretch be shaped as being the lower caste of their own society, while the outsider also raided you claiming a right that absolved them of the sin of violence? I would think that 'One Sin, One Grace' is the exact lesson that would arise from such a culture where the blows are coming from both sides. It's probably a dark mirror of Callow as the best fed part of Praes with similar feelings of being the marching grounds of a boarder strife.

As far as what is probably a better summary of Amadeus' world view, I would think his private discussion with Alaya is a better example: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...07/epilogue-3/