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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Eh... No one else around is able to make Ranger do anything she doesn't want to do, except maybe the Golden Bloom. This is greater in power than the White Knight, and she's up there with the Saint of Swords in terms of 'people who could kill the Dead King'. Ranger + Severance is a terrifying thought. But Ranger couldn't make the Accords work if she wanted to, because she doesn't have a country to bind them to.

    In terms of broad influence, Amadeus the Black Knight was the terror of a continent for decades, and was romping merrily around Procer for months as his name grew weaker, because that wasn't what his Role was for. His Name would fizzle out if he tried to bring people together in a unified coalition to fight a greater evil, if he didn't become a Claimant for the White Knight.

    Perceived influence and power ≠ narrative empowerment, is all I'm saying.



    I... do not think Sve Noc could end up on par with the seven Choirs. One angel-corpse is enough to blast half of Calernia to dust. They act as the backers for a large percentage of Heroes. And most importantly, those Seven Choirs are equivalent in power to all of the infinite Hells and all the demons and devils living in them. They the Gods Above's equal and opposite answer to Bellow's Hell. A God Below that's free to act on Creation with the equivalent power of the combined hand of the infinite Hells would ruin the balance of power, and with it, the Wager that keeps the world in place.



    Yeah. Half of the Drow power source getting Ruined when facing against the Dead King, now that he has effective weapons, is... not great. I would say that this is a no news is good news thing, though—because of the nature of Sve Noc, Catherine would know if the Drow front collapsed entirely. It's just not as important as the Greater Breaches.
    The Hells are banned under the Accords though. And Heroes still have priests with Light on top of Named wielding Light.

    Fair enough argument regarding scale of Sve Noc. I was more reflecting on Sve Noc having that stand off with the Choir of Mercy where they had the leverage to win against the Choir, and thinking that if Sve Noc as a readily available patron for Below exists at the heart of Cardinal (the Hall of the Damned founded by First Under Night) means that they are likely to gain more influence in time.

    Regarding the corpse, it's unclear if it's 'one angel' of power or calling down the full choir (or if there is a distinction there). Considering other feats of divine might (Contrition's mind blast, Pilgrim's Shine, Judgement's Smite), I think the bomb is something more like the upper end of Judgement's attention.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Regarding the corpse, it's unclear if it's 'one angel' of power or calling down the full choir (or if there is a distinction there). Considering other feats of divine might (Contrition's mind blast, Pilgrim's Shine, Judgement's Smite), I think the bomb is something more like the upper end of Judgement's attention.
    Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too. If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic, the question rises as to why they haven't just done that before, since they seem to generally be in favor of judging people. I can think of a few plausible reasons, but I'm hoping we get a confirmed one at some point.
    Avatar by araveugnitsuga.

  3. - Top - End - #243
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Was the next chapter going to be delayed for some reason?

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Was the next chapter going to be delayed for some reason?
    Yup. https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...chapter-delay/

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Ah, thanks. I couldn't see that in the ToC.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too. If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic, the question rises as to why they haven't just done that before, since they seem to generally be in favor of judging people. I can think of a few plausible reasons, but I'm hoping we get a confirmed one at some point.
    It seems likely they can only directly act when called upon by a mortal actor (the why of this I don't think has been stated, but it seems consistent with events. A term of the Wager, perhaps) but once they have been given that opening to act their power can be further altered (the concern over the Bard getting to influence the activation of the angel-corpse) or they may act in a broader fashion than the initial requestor wanted. There also seems to be a significant difference in scale between channeling the power or attention of a Choir and actually having an angel present in Creation; possible Judgement literally cannot attempt to scour the entire continent without something like the angel-corpse being used to create a much wider link for that power.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too. If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic, the question rises as to why they haven't just done that before, since they seem to generally be in favor of judging people. I can think of a few plausible reasons, but I'm hoping we get a confirmed one at some point.
    I mean they kind of said that. Because it would get balanced out elsewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic
    The important thing to remember here, is that its not going to be Judgment blasting the entire continent.
    Its going to be a mortal ruler using a super weapon. That just happens to be build from the corpse of an angel.

    And what people then fear, is the Wandering Bard nudging the dial of said weapon up past 11 to OverKill.

    Edit.
    As for black. Im making the prediction now, that what he is going to kill is the tower itself.
    Hence all the goblingfire.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2021-06-26 at 08:46 AM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too. If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic, the question rises as to why they haven't just done that before, since they seem to generally be in favor of judging people. I can think of a few plausible reasons, but I'm hoping we get a confirmed one at some point.
    They seem to need priests to power up the weapon. The energy seems to come from mortals.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too. If Judgment is capable of blasting the entire continent with its judging magic, the question rises as to why they haven't just done that before, since they seem to generally be in favor of judging people. I can think of a few plausible reasons, but I'm hoping we get a confirmed one at some point.
    I'm reasonably certain the other Big G gods would stop it from happening. They have rules they force everyone yo abide by.

    Evil gods can grant miracles of any size as long as there is an equivalently large sacrifice. The Drow got Night for ceasing to have children and then later switch it to for eating each other. Tyrants get to use human sacrifice to power impossible rituals, like KotD did or Triumphant.

    Good gods like the Choirs intervene to balance the game. At Thassalonica one of the gods intervened after Warlock used mass human sacrifice to power up the wards, for example, and Triumphant was opposed by angels.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I'm reasonably certain the other Big G gods would stop it from happening. They have rules they force everyone yo abide by.

    Evil gods can grant miracles of any size as long as there is an equivalently large sacrifice. The Drow got Night for ceasing to have children and then later switch it to for eating each other. Tyrants get to use human sacrifice to power impossible rituals, like KotD did or Triumphant.

    Good gods like the Choirs intervene to balance the game. At Thassalonica one of the gods intervened after Warlock used mass human sacrifice to power up the wards, for example, and Triumphant was opposed by angels.
    Huh. I had missed the detail of mass human sacrifice at Thalassina.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    They seem to need priests to power up the weapon. The energy seems to come from mortals.
    No seems about it. We were basically told straight up priests pouring light into it were required to charge it.

    The Drow got Night for ceasing to have children and then later switch it to for eating each other.
    I think you might have mixed stuff up a bit?

    At least according to the wiki.
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    The original Empire Ever Dark was controlled by the Twilight Sages, who feared death and used magic to lengthen their own life spans. Due to a long-standing comflict with the Kingdom Under they entered into a bargain with the Gods Below that let them "mortgage" the lives of yet unborn drow for power, but it was not enough to win. Even worse, as the losses mounted the number of drow per future generation sank, raising the debt. Eventually the sisters Komena and Andronike managed to renegotiate the deal, after sacrificing every single Twilight Sage except for Andronike herself, resulting in the Tenets of Night and the Gloom.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Huh. I had missed the detail of mass human sacrifice at Thalassina.
    It's in Interlude: Inheritance

    "The recent labour of activating the wards of Shatha’s Maze had left too many mages exhausted and on the edge of burning out, sadly, which meant that to make up the losses two thousand criminals had to be slain and their life force provided instead. Wekesa disliked using such primitive means, but it could not be denied that the power resulting was pure and plentiful. If they’d had another week it could have been avoided, but as things stood he’d have to make his peace with it."

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    No seems about it. We were basically told straight up priests pouring light into it were required to charge it.



    I think you might have mixed stuff up a bit?

    At least according to the wiki.
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    The original Empire Ever Dark was controlled by the Twilight Sages, who feared death and used magic to lengthen their own life spans. Due to a long-standing comflict with the Kingdom Under they entered into a bargain with the Gods Below that let them "mortgage" the lives of yet unborn drow for power, but it was not enough to win. Even worse, as the losses mounted the number of drow per future generation sank, raising the debt. Eventually the sisters Komena and Andronike managed to renegotiate the deal, after sacrificing every single Twilight Sage except for Andronike herself, resulting in the Tenets of Night and the Gloom.
    I think we are in agreement. The movement was from
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    Night being drawn from their unborn to being drawn from eating each other Primal Zerg style. I'm reasonably certain they were using Night in the old Empire, it just didn't have the same rules of acquisition.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    It's in Interlude: Inheritance

    "The recent labour of activating the wards of Shatha’s Maze had left too many mages exhausted and on the edge of burning out, sadly, which meant that to make up the losses two thousand criminals had to be slain and their life force provided instead. Wekesa disliked using such primitive means, but it could not be denied that the power resulting was pure and plentiful. If they’d had another week it could have been avoided, but as things stood he’d have to make his peace with it."



    I think we are in agreement. The movement was from
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    Night being drawn from their unborn to being drawn from eating each other Primal Zerg style. I'm reasonably certain they were using Night in the old Empire, it just didn't have the same rules of acquisition.
    Thanks for the passage.

    Regarding the New Chapter:

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    Here's hoping that Cat hears the wind on this. Yes it's not the politically good choice, but as Pickler points back to Marchford, it is what she started this path to do.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    Most of all what confuses me is that the stars suddenly begins to fade.
    As if somehow, just thinking about this make Cat lose connection to her new name.

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    Most of all what confuses me is that the stars suddenly begins to fade.
    As if somehow, just thinking about this make Cat lose connection to her new name.

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    It's slightly ambiguous but the implication is that she's either avoiding or diving headfirst into Bard's trap. Bard wants to change the scope of her name, possibly into only dealing with Named hence why she feels distracted by the stars when dealing with 3 high Lords 2 chapters ago. Pickler offered a 3rd way out, a refusal to play the Matron's rigged game. When she decides to accommodate Pickler's and Robber's desires the distractions fade.

    Probably because her mindset/role shifting from Warden/Jailer to something more constructive
    Last edited by Thomas Cardew; 2021-06-29 at 10:37 AM.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Thanks for the passage.

    Regarding the New Chapter:

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    Here's hoping that Cat hears the wind on this. Yes it's not the politically good choice, but as Pickler points back to Marchford, it is what she started this path to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    Most of all what confuses me is that the stars suddenly begins to fade.
    As if somehow, just thinking about this make Cat lose connection to her new name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
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    It's slightly ambiguous but the implication is that she's either avoiding or diving headfirst into Bard's trap. Bard wants to change the scope of her name, possibly into only dealing with Named hence why she feels distracted by the stars when dealing with 3 high Lords 2 chapters ago. Pickler offered a 3rd way out, a refusal to play the Matron's rigged game. When she decides to accommodate Pickler's and Robber's desires the distractions fade.

    Probably because her mindset/role shifting from Warden/Jailer to something more constructive
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    I've been rereading the series, and Cat with the FIfteenth before she becomes full Winter is definitely on team wipe out the aristocracy. The compromises to make the Liesse Accords work have moved her further and further away from her original position, and then the fight against Bard and the King of the Dead. I feel like this chapter is good because it ties back into the same problem Malicia had, slowly she has become less and less involved in her own ideals while trying to implement solutions to the problems in front of her.
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    I've been rereading the series, and Cat with the FIfteenth before she becomes full Winter is definitely on team wipe out the aristocracy. The compromises to make the Liesse Accords work have moved her further and further away from her original position, and then the fight against Bard and the King of the Dead. I feel like this chapter is good because it ties back into the same problem Malicia had, slowly she has become less and less involved in her own ideals while trying to implement solutions to the problems in front of her.
    This, but I don't think it is just the "aristocracy". This is Cat's declaration of her "thing", when Archer is getting to know her for the first time (Book 3, Chapter 13, at the very end):
    Quote Originally Posted by aPGtE, bk. 3 ch 13
    “When heroes and villains come knocking in the name of fate,” [Catherine] spoke, tone calm and measured. “When they try to drag us back to where we were by force with a Choir behind them or the host of some howling Hell – I’ll kill them all. Every last one of them.”
    I think that, whether she realises it or not, Cat is on a path to end Names as they are currently understood. Which would explain why Bard, an entity who can only interact with Names, is so utterly terrified of that coming to pass.

    ETA: I'm going to add, that I only just came up with this after reading said chapter, so as a theory it is at best half-baked. But if it is anywhere near the truth, that link to other names is probably something Bard was trying to forge, and by Cat once again putting the regular people's need before the machinations of the powerful, she is moving away from being the Warden of the Named or whatever.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    Fair number of people on the chapter comments saying 'Pickler's offer is the trap.' I think this is just the same paranoia/desire to see patterns that says that absolutely everybody is the Bard/Bard's tool/clearly a romantic interest. I think Pickler's plea is the potential Third Choice for Cat. The Bard works through talking to people and influencing the stories that control and guide the actions of Named. What are the main traits of Goblin culture? They don't talk to outsiders, and as far as anybody knows, they don't have Named. Bard has no ins there. If there is any place where a spoiler for Bard can come from, an influence on Catherine's actions that Bard can't predict or try to plan for.. it'll be from Goblin culture. And if it feels like Pickler is asking Catherine to do something Heroic? If escaping from bad decisions by refusing the choice and finding a Third Option is a fundamentally Hero kind of Story? Well, yup. Pickler is appealing to the part of Catherine that could have been a Hero, but went along with the Villain because it seemed like it would achieve more. If Catherine goes for it it's going to create a hard pivot away from the 'Villain and leader of Villains' thing.

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
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    Fair number of people on the chapter comments saying 'Pickler's offer is the trap.' I think this is just the same paranoia/desire to see patterns that says that absolutely everybody is the Bard/Bard's tool/clearly a romantic interest. I think Pickler's plea is the potential Third Choice for Cat. The Bard works through talking to people and influencing the stories that control and guide the actions of Named. What are the main traits of Goblin culture? They don't talk to outsiders, and as far as anybody knows, they don't have Named. Bard has no ins there. If there is any place where a spoiler for Bard can come from, an influence on Catherine's actions that Bard can't predict or try to plan for.. it'll be from Goblin culture. And if it feels like Pickler is asking Catherine to do something Heroic? If escaping from bad decisions by refusing the choice and finding a Third Option is a fundamentally Hero kind of Story? Well, yup. Pickler is appealing to the part of Catherine that could have been a Hero, but went along with the Villain because it seemed like it would achieve more. If Catherine goes for it it's going to create a hard pivot away from the 'Villain and leader of Villains' thing.
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    That's a pretty good idea, though I disagree that Cat would stop being a Villain, or a leader of Villains. I imagine it will be a pretty big pivot away from being about the East though.

    I'm inclined to agree that Pickler's offer has nothing to do with the Bard. She's not Named, and AFAIK, has never been in contact with any Named that isn't under Cat's command.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
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    Fair number of people on the chapter comments saying 'Pickler's offer is the trap.' I think this is just the same paranoia/desire to see patterns that says that absolutely everybody is the Bard/Bard's tool/clearly a romantic interest. I think Pickler's plea is the potential Third Choice for Cat. The Bard works through talking to people and influencing the stories that control and guide the actions of Named. What are the main traits of Goblin culture? They don't talk to outsiders, and as far as anybody knows, they don't have Named. Bard has no ins there. If there is any place where a spoiler for Bard can come from, an influence on Catherine's actions that Bard can't predict or try to plan for.. it'll be from Goblin culture. And if it feels like Pickler is asking Catherine to do something Heroic? If escaping from bad decisions by refusing the choice and finding a Third Option is a fundamentally Hero kind of Story? Well, yup. Pickler is appealing to the part of Catherine that could have been a Hero, but went along with the Villain because it seemed like it would achieve more. If Catherine goes for it it's going to create a hard pivot away from the 'Villain and leader of Villains' thing.
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    I'd think that when you look at Interlude: Reprobates, the idea that the Villains can build something constructive, instead of being a scattering of outlaws and fugitives is worth something to them. So while it is a Heroic leaning, I don't think it's necessarily Name breaking.

    I'm pretty sure that if we go through the side references of Amadeus' time as Squire it maps fairly closely to a Hero's Journey story in a lot of ways (pretty sure he has 'dragon riding as part of his exploits for crying out loud!)

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    I feel sorry for Takisha. Akua was right, she just isn't Tyrant material.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

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    This is a long slow series that takes its time, but this arc is becoming a slog. I get that this is a climax, but Malicia was already falling apart at the beginning of the arc and Cat had to deliberately not take the city earlier to keep the arc going. It's actually losing tension instead of gaining it.
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    Well. It was made a point out of earlier. That taking the city isnt the same as taking the tower. And that the city were so freaking massive, it could be a death trap. As Tyrants had before set fire to sections of it.
    Hence my Cat is trying to push Malicia off indirectly.

    Whats interesting here, is the additional bit we got about The Bards plan.
    It did seem fairly complex.

    Else. It does still seem possible Akua might get pushed into the position of Empress. Accept it as her penance so to speak.
    And take that guy following her as Chancellor.

    Well. At least its hard to see anyone else taking that seat. Black does not seem to want it. And at this point Akua is genuinly the best choice for it.
    Even if she hates it.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    If Akua does become Dread Empress, I'll bet her name is some variation on Dread Empress Miserable.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    I doubt Akua is going to become Dread Empress. It doesn't seem like the kind of name you can get without wanting it, and Akua very much does not want it. I do wonder, though, what would happen if she was crowned Dread Empress but didn't get the name - or got a heroic name instead. What would that do to the story of Praes?
    Last edited by InvisibleBison; 2021-07-06 at 01:53 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Considering she is a Sahelian and thus the blood of the second tyrant, I imagine a lot. If the tower was founded by a farseeing woman and then trapped by endless betrayals, it might be freed by a short sighted woman being freed by a refusal to betray. Imagine if Malicia's survival requires her to step down and everyone refuses to take the throne so it simply dies.
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Well. I am still standing by my first prediction as well.
    That Black is going to burn the tower in demonfire.

    That Akua end as Empress is the secondary prediction.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    Well. It was made a point out of earlier. That taking the city isnt the same as taking the tower. And that the city were so freaking massive, it could be a death trap. As Tyrants had before set fire to sections of it.
    Hence my Cat is trying to push Malicia off indirectly.

    Whats interesting here, is the additional bit we got about The Bards plan.
    It did seem fairly complex.

    Else. It does still seem possible Akua might get pushed into the position of Empress. Accept it as her penance so to speak.
    And take that guy following her as Chancellor.

    Well. At least its hard to see anyone else taking that seat. Black does not seem to want it. And at this point Akua is genuinly the best choice for it.
    Even if she hates it.
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    Yea actually, that guy as Chancellor could make a scary amount of sense. Someone who has realized the best vengeance to his Empress is to ensure her misery as reigning monarch never ends and who's most timely betrayal is to keep her alive despite herself out of spite would make the ideal person to take on a name that thrives on betrayal and disloyalty.
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  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil III: A Series of Unfortunate Peace Treaties

    To expand a bit on my theory. I think Blacks goal is to destroy the name of Dread Empress/Emperor itself. By destroying the tower in goblingfire.
    That in turn will make it easier for Akua and her sidekick to set a new path.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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