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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    Anything but this mess

    On a more serious note, I understand the appeal of handling everything with apparent freedom of optional features, too many moving parts ends up being nothing but chaos and mess.

    Personally, I would've preferred that Pathfinder 2e had ended up being more like what Pathfinder 1e was to 3.5; System that tried to fix acknowledged issues with better an overall better whole.

    PF2e seems to be more like D&D 4e was; a complete overhaul.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Morty's Avatar

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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    When we first saw the "raise shield" action, I thought, perhaps naively, that there would be other actions characters can take instead of just attacking, but it seems there's just the usual shove/trip/grapple and some miscellaneous actions.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    When we first saw the "raise shield" action, I thought, perhaps naively, that there would be other actions characters can take instead of just attacking, but it seems there's just the usual shove/trip/grapple and some miscellaneous actions.
    Care to elaborate with some examples of these hopeful concepts?
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  4. - Top - End - #124
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Care to elaborate with some examples of these hopeful concepts?
    Well, I'd love to see some abilities to use a shield more actively. Parry incoming attacks (to take advantage of high to-hit but low AC), defend allies, block AOEs... there's a lot of cool stuff to do with a shield besides it just being kind of there or using it as basically an improvised bludgeoning weapon, so I feel like the design space is being somewhat neglected.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Well, I'd love to see some abilities to use a shield more actively. Parry incoming attacks (to take advantage of high to-hit but low AC), defend allies, block AOEs... there's a lot of cool stuff to do with a shield besides it just being kind of there or using it as basically an improvised bludgeoning weapon, so I feel like the design space is being somewhat neglected.
    Warhammer Fantasy RP had active defenses -- Block, Parry, Dodge -- and those worked pretty well in my (limited) experience.

    A really nice consequence of that design was how you got an elegant and implicit mechanical explanation for why (and how) being outnumbered absolutely sucked.

    You could also tie mechanical perks to the active effects -- Riposte onto Parry, for one obvious example, but you could also tie iconic racial abilities onto active defenses.

    It really is a neglected design space.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Elves's Avatar

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    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    It would be interesting if you put all those plus AoOs on the reaction.

    Parry obviously defined as opposed attack rolls to negate their attack, dodge a dex roll vs same? Not sure what shield block would be, perhaps giving yoursekf cover or a parry with a bonus equal to the shieldís AC bonus?
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  7. - Top - End - #127
    Titan in the Playground
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    Dec 2008

    Default Re: What should Pathfinder 2 have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    It would be interesting if you put all those plus AoOs on the reaction.

    Parry obviously defined as opposed attack rolls to negate their attack, dodge a dex roll vs same? Not sure what shield block would be, perhaps giving yoursekf cover or a parry with a bonus equal to the shieldís AC bonus?
    A non-d20 game had it essentially like this:

    Parry: Great at negating damage from melee attacks. If your parry was good enough you can riposte or a few other moves. You can attempt to parry ranged attacks but it is harder.

    Dodge: Great at avoiding damage from ranged attacks. If you Dodge well enough you can sneak a movement in. Repositioning to get closer to the ranged attacker or even disengage the melee attacker. You can attempt to dodge a melee attack but it is hard to do (with strikes... thrusts were easier but I donít think weíre aiming for that level of fidelity).

    Shield Block: Can negate melee or ranged attacks with near equal ease (exact specifics depending on type of shield, bucklers were only slightly better at avoiding ranged attacks than melee weapons but again this game had way more granularity with equipment). But you canít really get a full additional riposte strike like a melee weapon or gain terrain advantage like Dodge. You do gain some slight edge if you Shield Block really well but it is lesser than Parry or Dodge.

    Absorb: Greatly reduce the damage taken based on the armor you wear. Unlike the others there is less of a chance of messing this up, but to completely negate an attack like parry, dodge, or block might you need to be wearing very good armor. But if you are, you kinda are just a near unkillable beast unless the enemy specifically try to aim toward the gaps in your armor, which is much harder to do unless you are grappled.

    Could take some fidgeting but that may be made workable in a d20 system. Would need to be tinkered with to make work against enemies that throw magic around as well.

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