Gritty Realism ~48 Hour Variant Feedback

[dmhelp]

Any thoughts on a variant of the Gritty Realism rule?

Short rest is still one hour, but limitted to one per day, and gives no hp recovery.

Long rest is the same 8 hour period, limitted to one per day, and you can spend your hit dice for healing which previously happened on a short rest (and recover half of your hit dice as prior).
Spell slot recovery happens differently with a long rest:
Total up all of the spell levels of spell slots you have and then recover half of them (round up).

Example:
Level 11 Wizard has spell slots of 4 3 3 3 2 1 (they have 4 + 6 + 9 + 12 + 10 + 6 = 47 spell levels of spells).
Every long rest they regain 24 spell levels (e.g. 6th level slot, 2 5th level slots, 2 4th level slots would account for all 24 levels).

So essentially:
Hp recovery is similar to unmodified Gritty Realism (you could throw in full hp for a week of rest but that doesn't seem necessary since you get to spend almost your full hit dice every 48 hours).
Every 48 hour period you can regain all of your spell slots and the short rest based classes have one built in pseudo short rest that is mandatory.
Compared to the old system you are getting 1-3 short rests and 1 long rest over a 48 hour period but with the hp recovery of Gritty Realism.

This seems to me to be a better solution to the 5 minute adventuring rule than unmodified Gritty Realism (where you only get short rests until you have 1 week of downtime).

I think it would be ok to give Warlock's Mystic Arcanums full recovery on a long rest.
With no additional short rests over a 48 hour period you have about:
20 Wizard 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 (plus 2 batches of 10 spell levels from Arcane Recovery that could be spent during the long rests)
17 Warlock 0 0 0 0 8 2 2 2 2

But taking the additional short rests would favor the Warlock more.
Another option would be to limit it to one short rest per 48 hour period so the Warlock doesn't get too ahead with getting Mystic Arcanum on a 24 hour cycle.

What do you think?

[Pandamonium]

My spontaneous thought is that it feels mathier than it needs to be, but hey it's gritty so a little math is bound to get harder

[qube]

I suggest using spellpoints instead of spell levels to calculate.

How does this work with once per long rest abilities ?

---------------

IMHO would seem more simply to just use the normal gritty realism rules (short rest = 8 hors, long rest = longer); but add additional short rests. For example

• your first short rest takes an hour
  - a short rest before continuing
• your second short rest takes 2-3 hours
  - a rest combined with a lunchbreak. Taking off your armor, setting up a makeshift camp, creating a fire, etc ...
• your third short rest requires takes a nights rest.
  - includes setting up tents, diner, evening relaxation, ..
• a long rest takes multiple days of nonadenturing.

[TyGuy]

If you're limiting one short per day, why not make the single 8hr night's rest the short rest? Are you trying to keep a 1hr resource bump intact for warlocks, monks, fighters, etc.?

[MoiMagnus]

First, slow HP recovery (compared to spell slot recovery) is one of the worst thing IMO of gritty realism, and it seems you're making it worst.

IME, it puts way too much emphases on healing spells, and either makes it frustrating to play for character that have healing spells (social pressure to become a heal bot), or makes the PCs very dependent on their capacity to hire a group of low-mid level cleric mercenaries for healing-only purposes (or almost healing-only).

Second, is Gritty Realism with a two full days (like a week-end), long rest instead of a full week works for you?
It seems quite simple, not as constraining as the official variant, and it keeps what is the best thing IMO about gritty realism, which is that it forces the players to frequently take some days off, which gives a lot of opportunities for RP-heavy sessions (starting your own small business, building a network of contacts, etc).

[dmhelp]

What I don't like about Gritty Realism is that instead of increasing the time between resource renewal for long rest abilities it makes it very hard to replenish. Getting your abilities back every week is a lot different than getting them back after a week of rest. And if you say a long rest takes two days, that is still a lot harder to pull off than getting your abilities back over 48 hours (it makes it more punishing to long rest based classes).

I prefer to use spell slots but conceptually it might be easier to think of in spell points.

I was originally trying to keep a 1 hour replenish for short rest resources to keep the ideal (short:long) ratio option available. We could keep it by having 72 hour recovery for "spell points". I'm not sure if this is necessary or not from a game balance perspective (since lots of people still play Fighters and Monks in 5 minute adventuring day campaigns maybe a 48 hour cycle would be ok?).... I was going to have everything that isn't spell slots recover over 24 hours (boost to Barbarians).

I was originally being stingy on the hp but maybe MoiMagnus is right and we should go in the opposite direction.

So if we try to simplify things:

• Rest (getting rid of long/short distinction) takes 8 hours, limit one per 24 hours
• Recover half of your max HP plus Song of Rest bonus (getting rid of hit dice makes things simpler) or all of your HP if you have the Durable feat
• Recover half of your spell points (I'd make a chart with total spell levels and use 1/2 of your spell levels instead) plus Arcane/Natural Recovery if applicable
• Recover half of your sorcery points (so a level 20 Sorcerer would regain 14 with Sorcerous Restoration)
• Otherwise recover all abilities that recharge on a short/long rest

So resting for 8 hours once per day gives you half of your hp, spells, and sorcery points. It also recharges all other short/long rest abilities.

This is how many spell slots worth of spells would be recovered based on level (using round down):
Recovered Spell Levels (Level, Spell Levels)
1 1
2 1
3 4
4 5
5 8
6 9
7 11
8 13
9 18
10 20
11 23
12 23
13 27
14 27
15 31
16 31
17 35
18 38
19 41
20 44

Starting at level 9 it is close to twice your level in spell levels.

[Vegan Squirrel]

I like where you're going with this, but it does seem more mathy, or mathy in the wrong way, for my taste. At the table, that is.

I've toyed with the following rules for another campaign in the medium-term future. You won't strictly prefer mine, I'm sure, but maybe they'll inspire you in some way. I haven't tried them yet, and it's quite possible I'll change them before ever using them.

Modified Rests and Recovery

• Intent: slightly more realism, slightly longer-lasting consequences, slightly more danger, allowance for more downtime, and increased passage of time during the campaign (reaching level 20 requires, at a bare minimum, 19 days of adventuring and 76 days of downtime with these rules (around 3 months), rather than such growth being achievable within a few weeks).
• Short Rest, 30 minutes, normal short rest recovery rules.
• Long Rest, 8 hours; recover all short rest abilities; recover most long rest abilities (if multiple charges, recover one less than max); recover 1 level of exhaustion; recover a number of HP = 1/2 HP max + Con score, may spend HD; recover 1/2 HD as normal; long rest spellcasters recover 1 less spell slot at each level than your max; if you have only one max slot at highest level, DC 20 spellcasting ability check to recover it; if you have additional spell levels with only one max slot, recover the highest such expended slot only; free to change prepared spells.
• Extended Rest, 4 restful days of safety; recover full HP, long rest abilities, and spell slots; may spend downtime, shop, craft, write in spellbook; if drawn into an encounter once, don't count that day but otherwise may continue extended rest; an extended rest is required to level.
• Death & Dying: If you fall to 0 HP, you gain one level of exhaustion. If you fall to 0 HP as the result of a critical hit or a natural 1 on a saving throw, you also suffer a lingering injury.

I've also thought about making 9th level spells only refresh upon leveling up, to make that magic even more rare, special, and precious, but I don't think that's something you'll want to use here.

[KyleG]

I like where you're going with this, but it does seem more mathy, or mathy in the wrong way, for my taste. At the table, that is.

I've toyed with the following rules for another campaign in the medium-term future. You won't strictly prefer mine, I'm sure, but maybe they'll inspire you in some way. I haven't tried them yet, and it's quite possible I'll change them before ever using them.

Modified Rests and Recovery

• Intent: slightly more realism, slightly longer-lasting consequences, slightly more danger, allowance for more downtime, and increased passage of time during the campaign (reaching level 20 requires, at a bare minimum, 19 days of adventuring and 76 days of downtime with these rules (around 3 months), rather than such growth being achievable within a few weeks).
• Short Rest, 30 minutes, normal short rest recovery rules.
• Long Rest, 8 hours; recover all short rest abilities; recover most long rest abilities (if multiple charges, recover one less than max); recover 1 level of exhaustion; recover a number of HP = 1/2 HP max + Con score, may spend HD; recover 1/2 HD as normal; long rest spellcasters recover 1 less spell slot at each level than your max; if you have only one max slot at highest level, DC 20 spellcasting ability check to recover it; if you have additional spell levels with only one max slot, recover the highest such expended slot only; free to change prepared spells.
• Extended Rest, 4 restful days of safety; recover full HP, long rest abilities, and spell slots; may spend downtime, shop, craft, write in spellbook; if drawn into an encounter once, don't count that day but otherwise may continue extended rest; an extended rest is required to level.
• Death & Dying: If you fall to 0 HP, you gain one level of exhaustion. If you fall to 0 HP as the result of a critical hit or a natural 1 on a saving throw, you also suffer a lingering injury.

I've also thought about making 9th level spells only refresh upon leveling up, to make that magic even more rare, special, and precious, but I don't think that's something you'll want to use here.

That 9th level spell slot idea is interesting. I wonder if there might be an easy way to track differing rest times and have it apply to all spell levels so that recovery is spell level -2 days. 7 days for 9th, 6 for 8th and as normal for 1st, 2nd. Messy but cool.

[dmhelp]

In regards to mathy:

What if spellcasters got twice their level in spell slots back?

So it would be a boost to low level casters in the name of simplicity.

Hp recovery would be less mathy since half your max hp is easier than hit dice.

[Tanarii]

What's your goal?

As it stands, for a large number of characters, short rests are how they keep on trucking without over straining half and full spellcasters healing resources. So you still have to reduce the number of expected encounter the party will be able to handle anyway.

So the fewer encounters you have will be more resources, less health. More glass cannons across the board. Closer to a 5MWD problem. Not less of one.

Is that the goal?

Edit:The gritty variant in the DMG is generally considered to presupposes you have the normal amount of encounters in a week that you'd get in a day with normal resting. Not that it's harder to get resources back. But inherent in that presupposition is the assumption of a rest cycle at the speed of DM plot, not player control.

[dmhelp]

What's your goal?

As it stands, for a large number of characters, short rests are how they keep on trucking without over straining half and full spellcasters healing resources. So you still have to reduce the number of expected encounter the party will be able to handle anyway.

So the fewer encounters you have will be more resources, less health. More glass cannons across the board. Closer to a 5MWD problem. Not less of one.

Is that the goal?

Edit:The gritty variant in the DMG is generally considered to presupposes you have the normal amount of encounters in a week that you'd get in a day with normal resting. Not that it's harder to get resources back. But inherent in that presupposition is the assumption of a rest cycle at the speed of DM plot, not player control.

I think my goal is to get everyone on the same rest system so that warlocks and other casters are equalized if the players only want to take long rests. That way the DM doesn't have to come up with mechanical or thematical reasons that short rests should be taken instead.

Another less mathy option for spell slots would be:
After a rest you regain one used spell slot of each level, plus an additional first level spell slot.

So if your max was:
4 3 3 3 2 1
And you were at:
1 1 0 2 0 0
After resting you would go to:
3 2 1 3 1 1

[Vegan Squirrel]

I think my goal is to get everyone on the same rest system so that warlocks and other casters are equalized if the players only want to take long rests. That way the DM doesn't have to come up with mechanical or thematical reasons that short rests should be taken instead.

Another less mathy option for spell slots would be:
After a rest you regain one used spell slot of each level, plus an additional first level spell slot.

So if your max was:
4 3 3 3 2 1
And you were at:
1 1 0 2 0 0
After resting you would go to:
3 2 1 3 1 1

That math does feel more intuitive. Mind you, none of the options in this thread are hard math, it's just that complicated methods are more immersion-breaking in the middle of a session (and when you were saying X levels of slots, then they have to think about how they want to divide X every time). Here, they just renew one at each level, with a bonus 1st. No decisions to make, no analysis paralysis, no slowing the game down.