I need some feedback on the houserues my DM uses

[Trandir]

Here are the houserules


The Agonizing blast invocation now has this effect "the eldritch blast damage changes from 1d10 to 3d4".

The expanded spell list's spells are added to your spells known and do not count towards your limit of spells known.

The pact magic now gives a different amount of spells slots as indicated in the table. Your spells are casted at a spell level equal to the spell slot used to cast them. (But the slots are still regained on short rest as well as long ones.)


The Hex Warrior feature of the Hexblade patron doesn't provide any bonus proficiency. The pact of the blade no longer makes you proficient in your pact weapon and it gives as bonus proficiencies shields, medium armor, and all martial weapons.


This should be all. So what do you think?

Edit: Also I got the greenlight to change the spell progression to something that is neither as unbalanced as the OP table nor as limited as the RAW list. And I think spell points could work out quite nicely. They would still recharge on short rest and would allow for either some spell spamming or going nova. But how many points? Just the equivalent of two of the highest level slot you can cast might be a OK, but agonizing blast will probably stay in its nerfed state so maybe they can get some extra points. What do you think?

[diplomancer]

5/10.

I like giving the Patron spells for free (even more now that WotC is going in that direction w/ sorcerers as well), though I would test it first by giving Warlocks a choice of either Patron spell per level for free, and moving some of Hexblade to Pact of the Blade is a common, and good, houserule (though I'd personally keep shield proficiency with the Hexblade, and move the Cha to weapon attacks to Pact of the Blade).

On the other hand, eldritch blast does not need any boost, and I really dislike the changes to pact magic, being both overtuned and stripping the warlock of its main mechanic identity.

[Trandir]

On the other hand, eldritch blast does not need any boost, and I really dislike the changes to pact magic, being both overtuned and stripping the warlock of its main mechanic identity.

You do realize agonizing blast is guttet right? The change is not an addition. It's all the invocation does.

[Unoriginal]

This should be all. So what do you think?

Your DM has something against Warlocks?

[Trandir]

Your DM has something against Warlocks?

I honestly think he considers this an improvement over the original design

[diplomancer]

You do realize agonizing blast is guttet right? The change is not an addition. It's all the invocation does.

Ah, I didn't notice that, sorry. Then I'm not so sure, it's a very small increase for an invocation, not even worth it. And, though this is definitely more idiosyncratic, I also dislike rolling d4s for some reason; rolling 6 of them and having to sum them up individually sounds like a bother. Playing online it'd be different, of course.

Overall, all these houserules combined would change the way the warlock plays significantly; the nerf to agonizing blast, combined with the changes to Pact Magic, would get the Warlock playing more like other casters¹ and I don't think that's a good thing, personally.

¹ i.e, casting spells almost every round after a certain level, and not depending on cantrip damage; consider a 6th level warlock, and two short rests- he'd have 18 slots! That means he's probably casting a leveled spell almost every round.

[stoutstien]

You do realize agonizing blast is guttet right? The change is not an addition. It's all the invocation does.

Well 3d4 and 1d10+2 are pretty close and 3d4 can benefit from critical Hits so I wouldn't call it gutted.

[Trandir]

Well 3d4 and 1d10+2 are pretty close and 3d4 can benefit from critical Hits so I wouldn't call it gutted.

Problem is agonizing blast very rarely adds +2, it's usually +3-5 depending on level. At +3 it already lags behind and at +4 with a critical they are about the same.

[stoutstien]

Problem is agonizing blast very rarely adds +2, it's usually +3-5 depending on level. At +3 it already lags behind and at +4 with a critical they are about the same.

Oh it's not a good trade for the class in general but AB is pretty meh to begin with. It's either a tax or the damage isn't worth the pick.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Well, that's basically a complete rework of the warlock, isn't it?

Honestly, though, I'd sooner play it than the PHB warlock. Sure, your ABlasts are weaker than they otherwise would be. But with that many spell slots...short rest spell slots...you'll be able to use spells like Shield without it feeling like a waste, and you can cast Hex without feeling like it's a big deal to dump it in favor of a better spell when the situation arises.

But with two short rests a day, you'll be firing off more spells than any other caster in the party. And since warlock spells are a bit notorious for not usually scaling well with upcast slots, you'll be able to power them with those lower level slots. Combine that with the free Patron spells giving you more spells known? More versatility.

I honestly think it'll play pretty well (and may even be a bit overpowered), although it won't really feel that much like a normal warlock. Which, in my opinion at least, is sort of okay (I admittedly don't care to play PHB warlocks).

[MrStabby]

Uff. Some big changes to the class.

I think changes that make the class more fun, though as to balance it would depend on the table and DM as to what is more useful.

I think it is the kind of thing that might tempt me to actually play a warlock again, but I would suggest that your DM actively monitor it and dial up or down as needed.

[diplomancer]

Your DM has something against Warlocks?

I think the answer to that question, for the DM as well as to some of the posters here, is yes.

Not because the changes are a nerf, they definitely are not (my first impression is that they make the non-Warlock overpowered, unless perhaps Short Rests are capped at 1 per Long Rest); but because they eliminate the Warlock as it is (i.e, a caster with a few big effects complemented by some decent at-will options for the rest of his rounds) and create a new caster class in its place that plays a lot like other caster classes.

[OldTrees1]

You do realize agonizing blast is guttet right? The change is not an addition. It's all the invocation does.

I honestly think he considers this an improvement over the original design

Sounds like the GM wanted Warlocks to be more like short rest spellcasters than eldritch blast spammers. The changes nerf agonizing blast (8.5 -> 7.5, 19 -> 15, 31.5 -> 22.5, 42 -> 30) but increase your spell casting frequency per short rest.
3rd - 4th: 1 2nd -> 2-3 1st
5th - 6th: 1 3rd -> 3 1st and 1-2 2nd
7th - 8th: 1 4th -> 3-4 1st, 2-3 2nd, and 1 3rd
9th-10th: 1 5th -> 4 1st, 3 2nd, 2 3rd, and 1 4th

Spells known doubled.

Seems like a really strong buff to the class in Tier 1-2. You almost have as many spells per short rest as other casters do per long rest.

Personally I would extend the spell progression to 6-7th level spells, and then slow it down over 20 levels instead of 10. Although I would also be inclined to bring back the At-will Warlock from 3e.

[Pex]

Suggest to the DM to change Agonizing Blast to be:

Eldritch Blast now rolls 2d6/1d12 for damage, and you may reroll a 1 or 2 on a damage die.

It's still a nerf but easier to calculate the damage, and the player gets fun out of rerolling bad luck. With obvious bias I think it makes the invocation no longer a must have but not a never have. His version appears never have to me.

[Theodoxus]

I like Pex's idea.

I also think it would be way simpler to just use spell points at this point. You can play the Warlock exactly the same as the PHB version (just talking about spell casting) if you want, upcasting to obtain your two spells, but you can also get a lot more granular with your casts, if you desire. No longer blowing a 5th level slot on Shield for instance, but casting it with 2 spell points instead. For those who prefer to play closer to a standard caster while still maintaining their short rest recharge. I've allowed this option in a few of my games and the players who don't mind fiddly tracking of a numerical resource and wanted to play something other than a sorcerer, jumped at the chance. My regular Warlock player just stuck to maximized spell levels. He is perfectly happy with very few options and no math.

[Tanarii]

The Agonizing blast invocation now has this effect "the eldritch blast damage changes from 1d10 to 3d4".

Makes it not an automatic take, but it adds another bell curve on top of being multiple blasts at level 5+. You're unlikely to anything far outside average damage.

The expanded spell list's spells are added to your spells known and do not count towards your limit of spells known.

Overpowered, especially with the next one.

The pact magic now gives a different amount of spells slots as indicated in the table. Your spells are casted at a spell level equal to the spell slot used to cast them. (But the slots are still regained on short rest as well as long ones.)

If this in play, the warlock needs to lost a bunch of features to rebalance it to be more like a spellcasting caster. Probably ditch at least half the invocations they would normally get.

(Edit: I missed they get a Long rest spellcaster's slots on a short rest recharge rate. Just ... No. That is ridiculous.)

The Hex Warrior feature of the Hexblade patron doesn't provide any bonus proficiency. The pact of the blade no longer makes you proficient in your pact weapon and it gives as bonus proficiencies shields, medium armor, and all martial weapons.

This is a terrible idea, it's hugely OP and unbalanced Pact of the Blade to become an automatic top pick for all Warlocks.

[Captain Panda]

I honestly think he considers this an improvement over the original design

Yeah, he's wrong. That isn't an opinion, that's a fact, the math is clear.

From 5.5 damage per beam to 7.5 damage per beam. Instead of potentially +5, now you have +2 that doesn't scale. That's bad.

[JNAProductions]

Yeah, he's wrong. That isn't an opinion, that's a fact, the math is clear.

From 5.5 damage per beam to 7.5 damage per beam. Instead of potentially +5, now you have +2 that doesn't scale. That's bad.

Depends on what was meant by improvement.

Improvement as "This does more damage," he's mathematically wrong.
Improvement as "This is more balanced with other invocations," that's a good deal trickier to know.

My main concern, OP, is the adjusted spell slots. That's a LOT of casting-and with the extra spells known...

[heavyfuel]

Good houserules. Might actually be a tad overpowered.

Your DM has something against Warlocks?

What are you talking about? It's a nerf to EB and Hexblade, but pretty much a buff everywhere else.

10 extra spells known, a BUNCH more spells per short rest, and now picking spells that don't upcast are actually worth it, which drastically expands the selection of worthy spells.

[Keravath]

Honestly, the class looks way overpowered.

Nerf to agonizing blast so that each beam does 3d4 instead of d10+cha.

However, instead of two highest level spell slots on a short rest they have a bunch of lower level ones. This reaches a maximum at level 10 where they have 10 short rest slots of 1-4 + 1 level 5 short rest instead of 2 level 5s. In fact the warlock has so many spell slots that they will just spam spells every combat instead of agonizing blast since they will get all back on a short rest. Eldritch smite just got a bit boost.

From 11+ they give up two 5th level slots for the mass of lower level ones - so it is a nerf to their highest level spell casting ability but since they get them all back on a short rest anyway - they can cast tons of spells.

Moving the armor/shield/weapon proficiencies to blade pact from hexblade is a fairly common modification and after doing that it doesn't matter whether blade pact makes you proficient with your pact weapon or not. Does hex warrior still let you use charisma for attack rolls?

Anyway, the bottom line for me is that the huge number of short rest spell slots combined with all the additional spells makes the class massively OP compared to the base version and other classes.

[OldTrees1]

Maybe get rid of the Mystic Arcanum and change Pact Magic to something like this?

Spoiler: 1-7 over 20 levels

Show

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
1	1
4	2	1
7	3	1	1
10	3	2	1	1
13	4	3	2	1	1
16	4	4	3	2	1	1
19	4	4	4	3	2	1	1

[sophontteks]

What exactly is the DM trying to accomplish?

[Trandir]

Does hex warrior still let you use charisma for attack rolls?

Yup. Only the proficiencies got changed.

What exactly is the DM trying to accomplish?

By his own words "make Warlock less of an EB spammer and more of a caster". I think he managed to do it. But I am concerned about the execution.

[Unoriginal]

What are you talking about? It's a nerf to EB and Hexblade, but pretty much a buff everywhere else.

10 extra spells known, a BUNCH more spells per short rest, and now picking spells that don't upcast are actually worth it, which drastically expands the selection of worthy spells.

Which to me indicates the DM does not like the Warlock as they are.

[Trandir]

Which to me indicates the DM does not like the Warlock as they are.

Yup. He thinks the RAW warlock is boring

[Pex]

Suggest to the DM to change Agonizing Blast to be:

Eldritch Blast now rolls 2d6/1d12 for damage, and you may reroll a 1 or 2 on a damage die.

It's still a nerf but easier to calculate the damage, and the player gets fun out of rerolling bad luck. With obvious bias I think it makes the invocation no longer a must have but not a never have. His version appears never have to me.

I did mean you may only reroll a damage die once. If the second roll is a 1 or 2 that's the damage. Let the DM decide if he prefers 2d6 or 1d12.

[Captain Panda]

By his own words "make Warlock less of an EB spammer and more of a caster". I think he managed to do it. But I am concerned about the execution.

The game already has such an option, he may be shocked to learn! It's called the wizard, and it's an awesome class.

[sophontteks]

Yup. Only the proficiencies got changed.

By his own words "make Warlock less of an EB spammer and more of a caster". I think he managed to do it. But I am concerned about the execution.

A strange goal. It'd be easier to just ban the class entirely. As a player I'd just operate on the assumption that warlocks are banned, and play something else. What he created isn't a warlock. It's a homebrew class.

[diplomancer]

The game already has such an option, he may be shocked to learn! It's called the wizard, and it's an awesome class.

Exactly; what this change accomplishes is to create another Wizard; worse spells, but far better casting.

Or worse, a better Paladin. Because a Hexblade pact of the blade (you don't NEED to be Hexblade, though the Shield spell helps; but this is a Warlock that can DUMP cha; i.e., not a warlock, so the Cha to weapon attacks is not that important) with Eldritch Smite and these slots will make the Paladin weep. This is almost as most a "smite on every attack" build as the Coffeelockadin, except you can do it from level 6.

It's what I'd build with these houserules, and tell the rest of the martials "don't bother, I've got damage covered". Go with a handcrossbow (CB expert and SS, naturally) and make the DM regret his badly-thought ideas

[xyianth]

If these are the only changes to all classes, he has made the warlock the best caster in the game. Yes, as others have pointed out his agonizing blast change is a direct nerf to the invocation and results in it no longer being worth an invocation slot. Honestly, with his spells known and slot changes, you won't care about eldritch blast much anyway by level 6-7 or so. It is at best a 3 point damage nerf per blast. That said, even without agonizing blast, eldritch blast is still the best ranged attack cantrip in the game. And that is before you had the slots to make absolutely certain every single target you hit with it is hexed. (Note: this is not an optimal strategy with the way he changed your casting; I'm just pointing it out for the sake of completeness)

The pact of the blade and hex warrior changes are basically irrelevant. They make non-hexblade blade pact warlocks better, and non-blade pact hexblade warlocks worse. Both those options were niche anyways. Blade pact hexblades are essentially unchanged. (Again, for completeness, you can no longer find some exotic weapon and make it your pact weapon; this was always cheesy anyway so who cares?)

Now, with those out of the way, let's break this thing!

Celestial warlock is now the best healer in the game. No need for life cleric pact magic goodberry shenanigans, just get cure wounds, lesser/greater restoration, and revivify for free along with all the slots needed to cast them willy nilly. Oh and keep your slotless improved healing words too. Go chain or tome pact and don't worry about touch range either. Take a dip as a divine soul sorcerer to pick up bless and no one will remember why they ever brought a cleric along anyway. (not counting those twilight clerics, of course)

Hexblade blade pact warlocks can now cast shield every time they are attacked. You get an absurd amount of leveled spell slots now. If you aren't using them on shield/misty step, you probably are using them to smite with. (via invocation and/or paladin dip)

I direct you to the Genie warlock, specifically the Dao Genie warlock. Spike Growth is well known for its insane synergy with forced movement. Agonizing Blast may be nerfed, but Repelling Blast isn't. If you have a grappler in your party, all the better.

Enjoy!

No but seriously, half-caster slot progression that recharges on a short rest is absurdly OP. Agonizing blast could read "casting eldritch blast kills you forever" and I still wouldn't care. Post-TCE, caster warlocks don't even use eldritch blast except in emergencies anymore. Take pact of the chain, investment of the chain master, a sprite or pseudodragon familiar, and the mind sliver cantrip. Go around poisoning and knocking foes unconscious at ridiculous rates.