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    Default Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    I've been playing too much Rebel Galaxy and Objects in Space and now I'm wondering: how much work would it be to redo the original Traveller rules to resemble a bit more the "naval" combat of Rebel Galaxy and the submarine combat of Objects in Space?

    This is mostly a "toe in water" situation - I have to reread the Traveller books if I decide to go all in, but would like to know how much work would it be.

    The things I'd be looking for:
    1. Power management
    • Means of resource-management (beyond "OK"/"NOK", with some systems needing to be rerouted e.g. to recharge weapons faster).
    • Means of evading/masking/stealth (combat outside of visual range most of the time)

    2. Broadside as "long-range" weapons
    • Firing arcs relatively narrow
    • Possible to evade, but positioning would be the most important part of combat
    • Balance by requiring lots of power to fire every round or long recharge times (the more power you can give, the faster they recharge).

    3. Turrets as close-range weapons
    • Mostly for close combat, against fighters and missiles
    • Lower power requirements
    • Lower damage or very short range


    I think missiles can stay as they are.

    Now the question is: does the ship to ship combat system support something like this already? Or would it require some creative tinkering? Are there any similar solutions I can check out already?

    What would have to be solved combat-wise? E.g. positioning.

    I have the Mongoose Traveller, one of the older ones and the 800 page long build-your-own-game book.

    I'll be glad for any advice and would be running this at this forum later.
    Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by lacco36 View Post
    The things I'd be looking for:
    1. Power management
    • Means of resource-management (beyond "OK"/"NOK", with some systems needing to be rerouted e.g. to recharge weapons faster).
    • Means of evading/masking/stealth (combat outside of visual range most of the time)

    2. Broadside as "long-range" weapons
    • Firing arcs relatively narrow
    • Possible to evade, but positioning would be the most important part of combat
    • Balance by requiring lots of power to fire every round or long recharge times (the more power you can give, the faster they recharge).

    3. Turrets as close-range weapons
    • Mostly for close combat, against fighters and missiles
    • Lower power requirements
    • Lower damage or very short range


    I think missiles can stay as they are.

    I have the Mongoose Traveller, one of the older ones and the 800 page long build-your-own-game book.

    I'll be glad for any advice and would be running this at this forum later.
    First i have no idea of the systems you want to emulate/replace so i might verge away from what you want...

    (PS: i know mongoose Traveller 2e better so answers might be slightlydifferent)
    Now the question is: does the ship to ship combat system support something like this already? Or would it require some creative tinkering? Are there any similar solutions I can check out already?

    What would have to be solved combat-wise? E.g. positioning.
    Lets get these out of the way...

    1. No.. Virtually all weapons are able to move or otherwise ignore firing arcs*. The one ship type that might be troubled by forward narrow arcs is built into rules; fighters and dogfighting. Inside dogfighting it is part of the rules that the pilot checks gets the pilots pointed in the right direction. Outside dogfighting the ships are treated as being able to turn on a dime. Being small craft they probably can.

    vehicle to vehicle rules does address some things (2e has a separate book for them). The one thing you are going to have to build is how much movement they need to spend to turn and how much space they need to turn in. Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e goes into exhausting detail over such agility in their flight mechanics. The SRD might show that if you want to research that. The dragonomicon (a supplement) goes into even greater detail with pictures.

    (I think i answer all questions in one go)

    *nothing stops a player/GM from designing a ship with narrow arcs (it just goes against conventional designs). High Guard has rules needed for such ships. Double check your missiles. In 2e i know that they can't be used against enemies too close unless you point them at an enemy. They give some justification for it even though the missiles have plenty of fuel to turn right around and hit. The justification falls flat to me as, at range, they can curve around to to hit the enemy.


    ==========


    power no two ways around it; your going to have to build something. Probably rule that only so many power points can travel through the wiring of all non engineering sections. If only 1 pp, then weapons (turret weapons typically require 4) would only be able to fire every x (4) rounds. Perhaps an engineering check to force more through; like energy shields in 2e.

    broadsides are not too tricky. If you exchange labels on the highspeed missiles (i don't remember the proper name) and remove susceptibility to point defenses you will have the effect i think you want: large 'blobs' of plasma one could merely fly away from. Might want to set up a grid and use a ruler to setup the paths they will take.

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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    First i have no idea of the systems you want to emulate/replace so i might verge away from what you want...

    (PS: i know mongoose Traveller 2e better so answers might be slightlydifferent)
    First off, thanks for the answers! It helps a lot!

    As for the systems I want to emulate... okay, spoilering because I'm not sure you want to see detailed explanation. Still, if you are a fan of traveller, these two games come relatively close (although Objects in Space is more "modempunk" than hi-tech and relatively minimalistic, with focus on stealth & tactics, not only firepower, while Rebel Galaxy is more combat-oriented, relatively grindy, with frontier wild west in space aesthetic).

    Spoiler: Objects in Space
    Show

    Objects in Space makes you a pilot of an old freighter craft - but of course you can upgrade if you make enough money.

    You can move between different stations in your ship.

    Piloting/command centre:


    You can use nav system to plot your routes and computer will navigate your ship through waypoints, or you can go for manual piloting (which is much harder to master, but very nice when you get it.

    See the bluish cloud on the lower left part of the radar? That's a nebula you can hide in. It automatically masks some of your emissions.

    Movement is based on thrust/counterthrust, no fancy grav engines and instant movement.

    Detection is based on the amount of "noise" your vehicle makes on different frequencies. So for example, if you go to power management and shut down your engine and RCS system, you will not be able to change your direction or speed, but will be harder to detect by the other ships - both pirates and local law enforcement (which actually makes it possible to engage in smuggling without ever getting into combat if you know what you are doing - e.g. moving into nebula and shutting down everything means you can easily disappear - if you plan your movements well, you "turn" when you are in nebula and move in straight lines while going dark outside nebulas).


    Power management is a big thing. Your reactor and engine are the "loudest" things you have - you can get a stealth version of both, and further modify them to give out even less emissions, but the decrease in efficiency will be felt.



    On the command station, there is a switch that you can pull, which will turn most of your systems off (EMCONN), which you can configure in the power management screen.

    Combat is torpedo-based. You can get a laser system, which is relatively useful against ships (you need to get close), but can also target torpedos, but your main weapon will be slow-moving torpedos, which you have to prep (using more energy), but are self-propelling then (until they run out of energy).

    Finally, engineering.



    Your ship systems can be modified using different components, but they can also get damaged or destroyed - during combat, getting hit by asteroids, in dark nebulas or even getting worn out.

    In these cases, you need to get (or carry) spare parts, which you then have to place into the system.



    The image is of Kruger Interstellar Orchid main engine - the basic one. See the yellow pieces? These are components that you have to have. You must have at least one "route" from left to right filled in with components - if some get damaged, you may have redundancy - and it usually pays off to have a redundancy.

    The combination of submarine-like combat + manual engineering parts and power management, all in RL, make for some tense, but rather entertaining moments.

    Example: You go EMCONN to get away from particular well-armed ship undetected. You are drifting through space, invisible, but by switching everything off, you are practically blind. You also get hit by a torpedo that explodes nearby - doing some minor hull damage, but blasting your helm computer. So after few moments you switch on sensors & nav computer (which have some, but relatively minor emissions, so you stay sufficiently invisible) to see the situation - the ship has lost you and you are drifting to a nebula. The nav computer and sensors drain your batteries slowly - so by the time you reach nebula, you run out of energy. In the meantime, you rush to the engineering to switch around components - and since you don't have any spares, you take few redundant components from other subsystems, basically breaking open few systems just to get enough items to repair helm computer.

    As you get back from engineering, you see you finally entered the nebula, but with no batteries - which makes your nav computer flicker and you are not sure if you are or are not followed. So you fire up your reactor, watching as power of batteries climbs slowly up.

    By the time batteries are full, you see the ship has detected you and is bearing up on you.

    You quickly switch switch on everything, make a turn and fire up the engine and then - again - switch down everything. Once few moments pass, you fire up the RCS, make a turn, and then fire up engine again, to change trajectory.

    After few minutes, you run out of energy... so you switch everything on, take a look... and see the ship went for your previous trajectory, so is now rather far. You can make a run for it to a jump gate, safely.

    ...yeah, actual story. It was tense.

    The game's graphics leave a lot to be desired, but the gameplay is extremely satisfying. There are bugs, and the learning curve is pretty steep (the tutorial is not really good in teaching you stuff) and it's the old school "try what works", but it's fun.

    Also: it was created with arduinos in mind, so you can build your own console and even go further. I'm planning on doing this in the future.



    Video of said console: LINK

    It can be frustrating at times, but also extremely rewarding and enjoyable once you get to know the system a bit.


    Spoiler: Rebel Galaxy
    Show




    As can be seen, Rebel Galaxy is graphically much more pleasant. The whole experience is a bit more grindy, less "hands-on" than Objects in Space - but from this one I like the ships & "naval" feel for combat.

    You can shoot your broadsides (with limited angle) or you can jump into turrets and fire them at your target, lock on targets with missiles or even let half of it be managed by computer (with you giving preference to targets).

    This one will be better explained below, as answer to your comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Lets get these out of the way...

    1. No.. Virtually all weapons are able to move or otherwise ignore firing arcs*. The one ship type that might be troubled by forward narrow arcs is built into rules; fighters and dogfighting. Inside dogfighting it is part of the rules that the pilot checks gets the pilots pointed in the right direction. Outside dogfighting the ships are treated as being able to turn on a dime. Being small craft they probably can.

    vehicle to vehicle rules does address some things (2e has a separate book for them). The one thing you are going to have to build is how much movement they need to spend to turn and how much space they need to turn in. Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e goes into exhausting detail over such agility in their flight mechanics. The SRD might show that if you want to research that. The dragonomicon (a supplement) goes into even greater detail with pictures.

    (I think i answer all questions in one go)

    *nothing stops a player/GM from designing a ship with narrow arcs (it just goes against conventional designs). High Guard has rules needed for such ships. Double check your missiles. In 2e i know that they can't be used against enemies too close unless you point them at an enemy. They give some justification for it even though the missiles have plenty of fuel to turn right around and hit. The justification falls flat to me as, at range, they can curve around to to hit the enemy.
    Okay, so if I ever want to run it like I described, there will be work involved, but some basics are there. Fair enough.

    I think the ability to turn a ship on a dime is given by the length of combat round in spaceship combat - after all, this is not like taking a 5' step and turning around. And while the gravitic engines in traveller provide instant acceleration and "braking", I like more the Objects in Space approach with thrusters and either manual control or having the course plotted & computer doing the whole engine operation.

    I remember that movement in one version of Traveller was performed through a calculation of distance based on your speed & velocity - for a PbP this is all fine and dandy, especially if there is a tool that can assist with this (e.g. even excel spreadsheet with automated calculations is a good start).

    It would require some tinkering, but in this case I will have to read the rules and see what options are there. I am also looking at Triplanetary... but no idea if it's compatible. We'll see.

    I was also thinking of ditching maps in general and going by "radar" style (meaning you get a relative location of the targets), but with multiple ships (especially with situation like a main ship and couple of fighters), this can get relatively difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    power no two ways around it; your going to have to build something. Probably rule that only so many power points can travel through the wiring of all non engineering sections. If only 1 pp, then weapons (turret weapons typically require 4) would only be able to fire every x (4) rounds. Perhaps an engineering check to force more through; like energy shields in 2e.
    In this case, I like the approach in Objects in Space.

    You have certain amount of power points per round and you reroute them (more power to the engineer!) to systems you plan to use. Normally, this will be life support, gravity generation, main computer, navcom, sensors, RCS (for stabilization), engine (just fired up, not necessarily accelerating) and the rest goes into batteries (up to he max, which will provide power if the reactor is down).

    Now some systems require only certain amount of power (e.g. main computer), some use variable amount (e.g. thrust engine) based on the expected effect (e.g. 100% power to thrust engine = 100% acceleration) and some may use their usual amount or decreased one (e.g. life support - may be slightly lowered to turn off the heating, but still providing oxygen regeneration).

    When you want to fire up some of the systems (e.g. weapons/jump engine), you have to provide sufficient power - and as you stated, if turret weapons require 4 units and you have only 3, they won't be able to fire - you have to wait for the next round.

    Now a skilled engineer can make the reactor work overtime (there is some danger involved, but as they seldom operate on peak efficiency, it's more like something that is expected but lowers the reliability and may cause minor damage or wear down the reactor faster).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    broadsides are not too tricky. If you exchange labels on the highspeed missiles (i don't remember the proper name) and remove susceptibility to point defenses you will have the effect i think you want: large 'blobs' of plasma one could merely fly away from. Might want to set up a grid and use a ruler to setup the paths they will take.
    I'm already thinking of using a grid for this one (first time in my life).

    And I'm writing this idea down - thank you for your inputs! If you have more ideas, let me know!

    I'll have to start working on this - and may even get Traveller 2e, due to the shields. I like anything that can waste energy .
    Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Busy week. Will read spoiled area soon...

    (Just mainly talking. Will help as i can)


    I would like to point out that mongoose completely changed how to build ships when they made 2e. It's the biggest change between the otherwise symmetrical systems and the one change some players might not notice til they need them.


    Shields are specifically a High Guard thing and high tech; they start at TL16. You can polarize the hull at 12 but that affects missiles only. Of course that detail can be ignored.

    The reason firing arcs are ignored is because bay weapons and forward facing turrets are forward facing. Combat is typically between two or more ships pointing one's bow at the other ship. Conventional combat involves bow to bow or bow to stern. The system starts to fail around capital ships.

    One thing i noticed is that a 4ton statroom had roughly 4 squares on the map. I have also noticed that when (in Star Trek) Enterprise or Voyager fired their lasers the beem came out of a red line wrapped around the saucer. So what i often do is figure how many squares i have for a bay weapon and wrap it around the outside with a one by two square jutting in amidshipsward to represent crew stations and the like.

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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Busy week. Will read spoiled area soon...

    (Just mainly talking. Will help as i can)
    I'm glad for any help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    I would like to point out that mongoose completely changed how to build ships when they made 2e. It's the biggest change between the otherwise symmetrical systems and the one change some players might not notice til they need them.
    Yeah, I remember there being no shields at all. I'm thinking about buying 2e, but I'm not sure so far - what were the biggest changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Shields are specifically a High Guard thing and high tech; they start at TL16. You can polarize the hull at 12 but that affects missiles only. Of course that detail can be ignored.
    How do the shields work? Additional hit points? Or just resistance?

    I love the idea of player (commander) shouting "All power to front shields!"

    Also, shield management gives the poor engineer additional thing to do during combat. Or even just somebody at the bridge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    The reason firing arcs are ignored is because bay weapons and forward facing turrets are forward facing. Combat is typically between two or more ships pointing one's bow at the other ship. Conventional combat involves bow to bow or bow to stern. The system starts to fail around capital ships.
    Yeah and this is a bit strange to me.

    When two ships duke it out bow-to-bow, I assume they have some shields or something like that - because you don't want to repair hull after each combat. Imagine Enterprise with it's beautifully white hull getting shot at without shields every episode: it would look like junker in fifth episode. And I don't mind the idea itself - but I'd assume ships moving to evade most of the time for standard traveller combat.

    Also: after quick read-through Triplanetary, I'm thinking of using their system - a bit modified, of course (ships will not spend so much fuel, but will need to allocate energy).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    One thing i noticed is that a 4ton statroom had roughly 4 squares on the map. I have also noticed that when (in Star Trek) Enterprise or Voyager fired their lasers the beem came out of a red line wrapped around the saucer. So what i often do is figure how many squares i have for a bay weapon and wrap it around the outside with a one by two square jutting in amidshipsward to represent crew stations and the like.
    Well, that's one of the things I never noticed. Maybe because it's so long since I saw Enterprise (last time somewhere around high school).

    And that's my plan for most of the ships. However, if I ever go through with this game, I'll need most probably to rehaul quite a few ship models... and I'm not sure if I'm going to make it in this century
    Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by lacco36 View Post
    ... and I'm not sure if I'm going to make it in this century
    You and me both; i can't even carry a conversation in a timely manner



    A big change was damage. A 1e free trader had 4hull and 4structure. A 2e free trader has 80hull (modifiers are plentiful but that is base) and that is it. At 0 it falls apart. A beem laser does 1d6 hull, my memory is fuzzy on what 1e.

    Next comes power and drives. 1t of fusion plant provides X power points for 'Y'TL. Base ship requires X pp, drives require X pp and performance is based on it taking up Z% of hull. Standard building practice is to have reactor big enough to power everything at once (base blueprints in books fall slightly short as convention has you stop moving before jump so full power is not needed) but can easily lower to emulate one of the systems. High Guard details what happens if power points become tight (like say from a hit to your power core) and you need to turn things off.


    Shields are a screen (which takes up a hardpoint so one less gun) and it provides 10 'hull' that regenerates 1 per round. Engineercan assist for more. At lowest TL it takes up like 20t and 50pp and gets better with higher TL (never truly gets better than a weapon). Great at simulating Star Trek shields that fall after one blow. Omnidirectional bubble btw...


    Bow to bow and no shields makes sense. The usual cap is TL15 and most ships run at 12 or less. There are no shields in standard Traveller settings. Even the polorized hull (TL12) is treated as a fringe/optional thing; they exist but only stop missiles and convention is beam warfare. A number of optional gear exists for different settings or far flung places that use different tactics.

    You can evade fire. A ship has a thrust value and one can spend a point of thrust to evade the next attack. More thrust spent is more evade attempts (only one per unique attack as i recall)

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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    You and me both; i can't even carry a conversation in a timely manner
    No worries, I am practically unable to currently maintain a stable presence here. Still, thank you for still looking at this.

    Also: made a homebrew thread to work on the "mod".

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    A big change was damage. A 1e free trader had 4hull and 4structure. A 2e free trader has 80hull (modifiers are plentiful but that is base) and that is it. At 0 it falls apart. A beem laser does 1d6 hull, my memory is fuzzy on what 1e.
    I have a 1e Mongoose, 2e Mongoose (recently bought) and T4 (Marc Miller's) + T5... yeah, I like the system and the ideas.

    From what I understand, T4 works closest to my ideas: a T13 laser battery has damage code of 2-2-0-0 (damage per distance - very short, short, medium, long). The damage is applied after reducing via screens/defences - so if hit by this battery, a ship gets 2 points of damage (if no screens apply). This reduces armor (if the ship has some) - if there is no armor left, it goes to the structure. If armor is hit, you roll on a table for surface explosion, if there is some, you roll for internal explosion.

    A 12 on exterior explosion table = roll on interior. A 12 on interior explosion table = ship destroyed.

    The "feel" of this is that you have a powerful laser battery that can carve a Free Trader in 1 to 3 hits.

    I'm thinking this may be the way I'd like to go: turrets are for point defence (good for dogfighting), bays are for ship-to-ship battle. I'll have to think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Next comes power and drives. 1t of fusion plant provides X power points for 'Y'TL. Base ship requires X pp, drives require X pp and performance is based on it taking up Z% of hull. Standard building practice is to have reactor big enough to power everything at once (base blueprints in books fall slightly short as convention has you stop moving before jump so full power is not needed) but can easily lower to emulate one of the systems. High Guard details what happens if power points become tight (like say from a hit to your power core) and you need to turn things off.
    This I plan to keep with a small change - there will be only a minimal TL, each additional TL level will increase price & efficiency. I like the way fuel is set up - to be a little less issue than in previous versions.

    I also like the idea of jump needing a LOT of power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Shields are a screen (which takes up a hardpoint so one less gun) and it provides 10 'hull' that regenerates 1 per round. Engineercan assist for more. At lowest TL it takes up like 20t and 50pp and gets better with higher TL (never truly gets better than a weapon). Great at simulating Star Trek shields that fall after one blow. Omnidirectional bubble btw...
    Well, here comes the idea I had: ships have sections. Hull points are distributed among the sections and shields can be spread around these as one (the engineer, usually) wishes (maybe even increasing the amount of points from shields).

    Also: wouldn't want a shield that blocks everything. The "one blow and they are down" is fine for me - in a way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    You can evade fire. A ship has a thrust value and one can spend a point of thrust to evade the next attack. More thrust spent is more evade attempts (only one per unique attack as i recall)
    Yeah, this is something I like, but with a twist. A point of Thrust spent this way gives your Pilot a chance to roll to evade. In addition, I'm thinking of creating a mechanic to give the pilot chance to rotate the ship to prioritize ship sections that get hit - so you can put energy to front shields and turn the ship so it gets hit more from the front. Most probably just spending a point of Thrust - no pilot check needed.

    Again, thanks for the input. It helps a lot.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    If you want a more comprehensive ship-to-ship combat system, you're going to have to build one from scratch or hijack one from another system. Obviously, hijacking one would be the easier approach. Why re-invent the wheel?

    The two systems I would recommend checking out would be Star Warriors (WEGs starship combat standalone for the Star Wars D6 RPG) and Renegade Legion.

    As both systems are designed to handle the kind of combat you are wanting, they have already done 90% of the work for you. Pick one of the two (to keep rules consistent) and use that going forward. That just leaves you the job of translating Traveller ship data into the ship data of the system of choice and finding a way to translate the skills from the one system into something that is compatible with Traveller.

    You're going to have to come up with things like hit locations and internal systems damage charts...basically matching the data from the parent system to the Traveller ships. But it's easier than starting from scratch.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    I did a html file of a d6 spaceship mishap table I found, making it a 'push a button' page to get a mishap. Maybe tonight I can link the oroginal d6 stuff.

    Also once did a CT rewrite of space combat. For a group that would want more personal Star Wats style combat without sacrificing too much accurace. Will try to dig that up. It was mostly sensor and missile combat until point blank laser ranges though.
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    If you want a more comprehensive ship-to-ship combat system, you're going to have to build one from scratch or hijack one from another system. Obviously, hijacking one would be the easier approach. Why re-invent the wheel?

    The two systems I would recommend checking out would be Star Warriors (WEGs starship combat standalone for the Star Wars D6 RPG) and Renegade Legion.

    As both systems are designed to handle the kind of combat you are wanting, they have already done 90% of the work for you. Pick one of the two (to keep rules consistent) and use that going forward. That just leaves you the job of translating Traveller ship data into the ship data of the system of choice and finding a way to translate the skills from the one system into something that is compatible with Traveller.
    I have already decided to rework the ships & ship data: while the ships "make sense" in the setting, I find them a bit too... impersonal. If I ever launch this game here, I'd expect to give players at least 400t ship for start, with a smaller spaceship for landings, etc., and some crew members they can order around (e.g. to keep watch while they go planetside). I have already started to build some ships, just to make sure they are workable.

    Also, my current idea is that I'm not going to completely rework the combat system. Instead, I will change how thrust/movement works (taking the idea from Triplanetary) and add options. Because my issue is not with the combat system as such, just the... let's say simplification?

    I'm one of those crazy guys that want to have more ship management. I'm fine with some simplification, but I also want more options. Sensor operators, engineers and mechanics should have more options: choose which sensors to apply, how deep to scan, how much power to squeeze from the reactor and how to distribute it, which systems to shut down to power the long-range weapons, the gunner should be able to choose to risk overheating his weapon just to fire that one additional shot...

    ...and thank you. You may have given me just the tool for that.

    A good example of what I think needs to be reworked is "Basic Ship Systems: This includes everything a ship needs for day-to-day operations, including artificial gravity, heating, lighting and life support. The number of Power points needed for basic ship systems is equal to 20% of the total tonnage of the hull."

    Okay, so if my ship is 400t, I need 80PP to run basic systems. Fine. So if I want to switch down heating, minimize light and shut down artificial gravity in two sections of my three-section ship, will I be able to fire a barrage from my fusion gun bay?

    Yeah, I'm strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    You're going to have to come up with things like hit locations and internal systems damage charts...basically matching the data from the parent system to the Traveller ships. But it's easier than starting from scratch.
    I looked at the renegade legion sheets and fell in love with the damage system. It will most probably be complicated as hell to make it work, but I'm just enthralled by the options this workflow-style damage sheet offers.

    I need to study it a bit more deeply to understand, but so far it looks quite straightforward. I'll be borrowing the idea.

    So far the work's piling up:
    - convert the "range bands" to vector thrust-based hex movement
    - weapons fix: turrets are good only for dogfighting; damage decreases to almost none outside of local hex; bays & barbettes are fine
    - ship design: detailed power management, ship sections, system redundancies,
    - maintenance & damage workflow for a ship

    The last one will be some work, but definitely worth it: if damage gets through hull (crit or local hull at 0), it damages internal systems. Ship systems are allocated to ship sections - and each ship section has its own workflow.

    Depending on the system hit, damage and ship design, damage is either superficial (completely redundant system or system that is on intermittent operation), slight (system operation impaired, needs at best a restart, maybe some slight fixing), serious (system damaged, needs repairs or replacement, non-functional) or total (system destroyed, junked).

    This will be stated at the flowchart, and I'm thinking it will be provided to the ship engineer and mechanic only. The others can check it, but only those two know the exact status of the ship. Ship captain will get a different sheet - one with much less details, but larger scope.

    Still, thank you - this is exactly why I come here, to find obscure (for me) systems that have great ideas.

    Have you used the damage flowchart from Renegade Legion? If so, how does it work for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    I did a html file of a d6 spaceship mishap table I found, making it a 'push a button' page to get a mishap. Maybe tonight I can link the oroginal d6 stuff.

    Also once did a CT rewrite of space combat. For a group that would want more personal Star Wats style combat without sacrificing too much accurace. Will try to dig that up. It was mostly sensor and missile combat until point blank laser ranges though.
    If you are able to dig that up, I'll be really glad.

    I do not wish for Star Wars style combat - I'm more interested in the "submarine" style combat, with two ships firing at each other from extreme distances, hiding their signatures and moving around to stay in "blind spots".
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by lacco36 View Post
    If you are able to dig that up, I'll be really glad.

    I do not wish for Star Wars style combat - I'm more interested in the "submarine" style combat, with two ships firing at each other from extreme distances, hiding their signatures and moving around to stay in "blind spots".
    They were more interested in SW style space combat. Mine was more submarine like but I tried to strike a bit of a balance and give everyone involved something to do.

    Possible thing from d6


    Another - direct pdf DL link

    Ok, wow. found my docs and can't re-find them on google. will upload and link.

    traveller malfunction tables. pdf

    personal traveller hack files. It's all libreOffice docs but msWord sould work fine, oh, and one jpg pic
    Niven's Laws, #5
    If you've nothing to say, say it any way you like. Stylistic innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless pronouns, internal inconsistencies, the recipe for preparing your lover as a cannibal banquet: feel free. If what you have to say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest language possible. If the reader doesn't get it then, let it not be your fault.

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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    They were more interested in SW style space combat. Mine was more submarine like but I tried to strike a bit of a balance and give everyone involved something to do.

    Possible thing from d6


    Another - direct pdf DL link

    Ok, wow. found my docs and can't re-find them on google. will upload and link.

    traveller malfunction tables. pdf

    personal traveller hack files. It's all libreOffice docs but msWord sould work fine, oh, and one jpg pic
    Man, that's a lot of resources to look at! Thanks!

    First impression: I like the sensor ideas! My current view is that there should be options for width/range/detail - an operator should be able to decide which sensors to use per round (single sensor at short range and narrow width will give extreme details, but you can also scan a wider area with minor details, or go long-range and just hope to catch something). Details would be based on the sensors the operator uses. With the overall idea being submarine-style combat at extreme ranges, blind spots become a tool in your arsenal.

    Will have to think about other things that can mask your signature in space. OiS had nebulas, but not sure how common those are.

    I don't want to really deal with actual distances, so going the way 1 hex = range thrust 1 spaceship goes in an hour, with 1 hour combat rounds consisting of 15-minute steps (so you can do 4 actions, but the ship just gets 1 round). We'll see if it works. Not sure about it at all.

    I definitely love the idea of charging lasers - my original plan was to use them just for point defence and dogfighting (ships that are inside the same hex). But thinking about it, routing additional power to the lasers could increase the range and damage... so basically, you have your basic beam laser that requires 4 points, range 0 (same hex only) at 1D. You could add 4 to increase the range to 1 or increase the 1D... welp, definitely going to think about that.

    For damage, I'm entertaining the idea of flowcharts similar to Renegade Legion. Hull + Structure points as ablative defences (breached hull or criticals = damage to systems via flowcharts or damage to structure; if structure is gone, the ship section breaks off). Ship configuration can be reworked by Engineer, or even upgraded. Some components require mechanic (e.g. exchange of components for spares), some require engineer and even electronics. That remains to be decided.

    I had this idea lately: when the ship is damaged, you roll for a system that gets the damage (e.g. a sensor). That one goes offline - you see, coming from a field where things need to be safe & reliable, you build robust, fail-safe systems. Starships? Don't want to get a fire inside one - so when the system gets damaged, it shuts itself down.

    You send a mechanic there, or you check via maintenance console, and then you roll what you find - does it require a restart only? Replacement? Or even jury-rigging, some fixes? Kick with a sturdy space-boot? You find out AFTER you have your man check it out.

    Also, the idea about ship sheets being given out to crew members depending on their specialty - yeah, a ship captain does not have complete damage report - it's not his job to look at hull integrity. He gets the green-yellow-red info and details if he asks. Will it be additional effort? Well, yes. Most probably.

    But it's my current idea.

    BTW, loved the disclaimer in spacecombat doc (last sentence of first paragraph).
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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by lacco36 View Post
    Have you used the damage flowchart from Renegade Legion? If so, how does it work for you?
    I played a LOT of Renegade Legion back in the day (Fluttering Petal FTW). I loved how the damage flowchart made things more interesting than "You're hit. Your ship takes X damage" and once you got used to them, you could use those charts pretty fast.
    "Sleeping late might not be a virtue, but it sure aint no vice. The old saw about the early bird and the worm just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."

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    Default Re: Traveller: Ship to Ship Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    I played a LOT of Renegade Legion back in the day (Fluttering Petal FTW). I loved how the damage flowchart made things more interesting than "You're hit. Your ship takes X damage" and once you got used to them, you could use those charts pretty fast.
    I envy you. The game seems rather interesting, with lots of neat ideas. As for the ship, it looks great - although I myself am a big fan of the blocky rusty modempunk design over the sleek, shiny modern-looking ships

    And since I plan to use it for PbP, there are no time constraints, only level of acceptable irritation.

    And yes, I prefer more detailed wound/damage systems. When you have a logical, structured system (e.g. RoS damage tables - you know the zone the person attacks - e.g. overhead diagonal right - and you roll a 1d6 for location - zone gives you a table, location row, damage level is the column; read the description or adapt it and give 3 stats - blood loss, pain, shock - to the player; when you let the player roll the 1d6, you have time to get the correct table) and when you get used to it, it takes only few seconds to go through the process. And flowcharts are even faster - especially when they give the player something to do and they don't have to wait for the GM.

    In PbP this is even more pronounced: when the player can solve the damage on their own, or you can do so without inconveniencing them, it's easy.

    I'll try to sketch some ideas this evening - for flowchart. I've used the basic rules to create a 400t freighter, which I plan to turn into a PC ship... so we'll see how well that goes.
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