Looking for a game shouldn't be this depressing...

[skyth]

It shouldn't be this depressing looking for a possible 5E D&D game to join. Doesn't help that the constant bombardment of 'you're a bad person' if you play the way I like to.

Not big in the social encounter side of things. I see characters as tool sets to deal with problems. I also refuse to pretend I don't know things that I know from playing the game for 30+ years. I'm proud of that accumulation of knowledge.

Granted, the last couple things are why I typically GM only...But I don't want anything serious. My life is busy enough as it is. Plus if I GM'd, I'd have to buy things for Roll20 that I already own physical copies of or code things myself in Maptools...And I'm not familiar enough with 5E that I'd feel comfortable GM'ing.

[Xervous]

Ah yes, the eternal GM’s Dilemma. Persistence offers no guarantee in finding a group but there are two things you’re doing right. Better to search than not search, and better to choose no gaming over the bad gaming. It’s going to be something like a modern job search, tossing your resume to the wind and hoping for a call. Be sure to ask about other sites, forums, chat rooms and the like. Time is only one factor, you should check other pastures.

And if you do end up back in Forever GM land I will shamelessly plug Foundry VTT which is a Hexadin to Roll20s Champion. $50 gets you access to everything as it’s a one time buy. 5e has MASSIVE support between polish, automation and compendium integration. It will be a little more technical to get things set up but once that’s out of the way everything sails smoothly. Their website has a demo server you can connect to for getting a glimpse of what the program is capable of.

Edit: if you don’t know 5e all that well what’s stopping you from considering other systems?

[LibraryOgre]

Actually part of why I like to play knowledge-monkey characters like bards. "Yes, I have a plausible reason to know this factoid."

[skyth]

Actually part of why I like to play knowledge-monkey characters like bards. "Yes, I have a plausible reason to know this factoid."

I don't always want to play a knowledge monkey. Especially since 5E makes it hard to be a generalist knowledge monkey.

Plus, if I'm called to roll for knowledge that I already have and I fail that roll...It's just frustrating to be forced to do counterproductive stuff. I play a game for fun and this is the opposite of fun for me.

[Mastikator]

It shouldn't be this depressing looking for a possible 5E D&D game to join. Doesn't help that the constant bombardment of 'you're a bad person' if you play the way I like to.

Not big in the social encounter side of things. I see characters as tool sets to deal with problems. I also refuse to pretend I don't know things that I know from playing the game for 30+ years. I'm proud of that accumulation of knowledge.

Granted, the last couple things are why I typically GM only...But I don't want anything serious. My life is busy enough as it is. Plus if I GM'd, I'd have to buy things for Roll20 that I already own physical copies of or code things myself in Maptools...And I'm not familiar enough with 5E that I'd feel comfortable GM'ing.

So... you meta-game and refuse to not meta-game. Have you considered that some people don't view it that way and your meta-gaming ruins their experience? I don't want to be confrontational but if you don't care how you affect other's experience of their free time hobby why would anyone feel compelled to care about your experience?
If you do care, why not give it a shot? Why not doing the social encounter thing, try seeing characters as more than tools, actually pretend like you don't know stuff your character has no business knowing.

[King of Nowhere]

Plus if I GM'd, I'd have to buy things for Roll20 that I already own physical copies of or code things myself in Maptools...

why is that? i've been dming a hundred hours on roll20 and i never felt the slightest need for any premium options. i am definitely going to pay them a bit because they are offering a good service, but free has more than enough stuff.

as for knowing stuff, you should try to find people who want to play your way. unfortunately, you are a niche category, and you have a hard time finding people like you.
Have you considered switching to 3.5? it caters much more to power gamers, while 5e is more aimed at casual players

[skyth]

So... you meta-game and refuse to not meta-game. Have you considered that some people don't view it that way and your meta-gaming ruins their experience?

I actually have considered that. If someone has fun playing the game a certain way, more power to them. However, me playing with someone like that would result in frustration on both sides so we're better off not playing with each other.

What I'm trying to bring up is the bullying that someone who enjoys playing like I do gets subjected to. Getting constantly told we're a 'problem player' and need to change.

Have you considered switching to 3.5? it caters much more to power gamers, while 5e is more aimed at casual players

I'm not a power gamer and am looking for a casual game. Needing to justify knowing things is the exact opposite of casual to me.

[StoneSeraph]

What I'm trying to bring up is the bullying that someone who enjoys playing like I do gets subjected to. Getting constantly told we're a 'problem player' and need to change.

Respectfully, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "playing like I do". Could you please provide an example?

[skyth]

Respectfully, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "playing like I do". Could you please provide an example?

Like I'll use fire/acid to deal with trolls and I won't use electricity on Flesh Golems. Stuff like that. I've been playing for >30 years and know how many monsters work.

Now, I can understand not wanting to play that style of game. If you like pretending you don't know how things work and it makes you happy...go for it. Just not my style of game and likely playing with me would lead to frustration on both sides so I'd opt out. (Or you could opt out if the group already enjoys playing like I do).

However, bullying someone about this and acting like your play style is superior and the other play style is bad/a problem...That's the problem.

[StoneSeraph]

Like I'll use fire/acid to deal with trolls and I won't use electricity on Flesh Golems. Stuff like that. I've been playing for >30 years and know how many monsters work.

Now, I can understand not wanting to play that style of game. If you like pretending you don't know how things work and it makes you happy...go for it. Just not my style of game and likely playing with me would lead to frustration on both sides so I'd opt out. (Or you could opt out if the group already enjoys playing like I do).

However, bullying someone about this and acting like your play style is superior and the other play style is bad/a problem...That's the problem.

Thank you for the clarification. On my end, I find it weird that anyone would get bent out of shape over someone else knowing monster weaknesses and applying that knowledge to the game. It's fine by me, as long as you don't have the MM open right next to you. A character doesn't have to be a bard or a wizard to know trivia, and besides, knowing how to deal with a threat does not necessarily guarantee success, so it's no matter in the end.

As for people going out of their way to say that such action upon knowledge is "bad" or "a problem", forget 'em. You're neither powergaming nor cheating, as far as I can tell, and I can understand not wanting to hamstring yourself for the sake of... whatever it is the other players get out of you being hamstrung (seriously, what's the draw there?), so I agree that it's better to opt out, or at least avoid those players.

[Batcathat]

(seriously, what's the draw there?)

To some people, playing a role includes not acting on information your character wouldn't know. So even if the player have fought or read about every monster under the sun, the character fresh from the farm or whatever probably wouldn't.

That said, preferring that is obviously no reason to insult someone who prefers another approach but every type of people have their fair share of *******s. I'm sure there are plenty of times where someone not wanting to metagame is insulted.

[Xervous]

To some people, playing a role includes not acting on information your character wouldn't know. So even if the player have fought or read about every monster under the sun, the character fresh from the farm or whatever probably wouldn't.

That said, preferring that is obviously no reason to insult someone who prefers another approach but every type of people have their fair share of *******s. I'm sure there are plenty of times where someone not wanting to metagame is insulted.

But are they truly insulted or taking offense? The most common answer may have something to do with prevailing community expectations.

[King of Nowhere]

and I can understand not wanting to hamstring yourself for the sake of... whatever it is the other players get out of you being hamstrung (seriously, what's the draw there?), so I agree that it's better to opt out, or at least avoid those players.

well, i assume they would be new players and all would be new and exciting for them. they wouldn't be like "oh no, yet another troll". they wouldn't be all like "ok, we outmatch this thing". and perhaps they'd rather find out by themselves.

i mean, knowing is clearly better than not knowing, right? i don't get why people get mad when i tell them spoilers

[StoneSeraph]

To some people, playing a role includes not acting on information your character wouldn't know. So even if the player have fought or read about every monster under the sun, the character fresh from the farm or whatever probably wouldn't.

So it's what their character would do.

Don't get me wrong, I get wanting to immerse oneself in a role/setting, and I've played with players who approach the issue differently, either by hardlining "WWMCD?" (often to the detriment and frustration of others, in my experience...) or by disguising their knowledge in some way, e.g., casting the right spells or offering helpful suggestions to those who can.

I'm more trying to understand the draw for the out-of-game action of undercutting another player in such a way, if that makes sense.

well, i assume they would be new players and all would be new and exciting for them. they wouldn't be like "oh no, yet another troll". they wouldn't be all like "ok, we outmatch this thing". and perhaps they'd rather find out by themselves.

i mean, knowing is clearly better than not knowing, right? i don't get why people get mad when i tell them spoilers

That's fairly disingenuous and not terribly appreciated. There's a sizable difference between someone knowing how a monster might be stopped, and knowing how it does get stopped in the end.

[skyth]

I'm more trying to understand the draw for the out-of-game action of undercutting another player in such a way, if that makes sense.

I would say spotlight stealing or changing the feel of the game. Also, vermislitude (sp?).

[JoeJ]

To some people, playing a role includes not acting on information your character wouldn't know. So even if the player have fought or read about every monster under the sun, the character fresh from the farm or whatever probably wouldn't.

There's a world of difference between playing your character as someone fresh off the farm and insisting that the person sitting across the table from you play their character that way.

[Batcathat]

I'm more trying to understand the draw for the out-of-game action of undercutting another player in such a way, if that makes sense.

Well, if player A wants to immerse themselves into their character and the story as much as possible, player B saying "Oh, I fought this obscure monster in my last game, this is how we defeat it" might be frustrating. Just like player B might be frustrated by player A attacking the monster with a weapon the player (but not the character) knows won't work.

There's a world of difference between playing your character as someone fresh off the farm and insisting that the person sitting across the table from you play their character that way.

Sure, people get to play however they want to. However, I can understand people not wanting to play with someone whose style differs radically from their own, for the above reason. It's similar to something like optimization, there's nothing inherently bad about utilizing every RAW trick in the book to create a crazily powerful character and there's nothing inherently bad about creating an intentionally underpowered character for role-playing reasons. But it's probably easier if you play with people with a similar outlook (not that it's impossible to play with someone with a different philosophy about optimizing or metagaming, of course).

[Quertus]

What an interesting topic.

First things first, as a vocal member of the role-playing side of the RPG community, apologies to the OP that they have experienced such hate.

There's a world of difference between playing your character as someone fresh off the farm and insisting that the person sitting across the table from you play their character that way.

Agreed. However, it is not unreasonable to request such in session 0 - for tonal purposes, for example. (That I happen, personally, to have little interest in such tone outside playing Quertus, my signature academia mage for whom this account is named, in no way makes such a tone BadWrongFun)

That's fairly disingenuous and not terribly appreciated. There's a sizable difference between someone knowing how a monster might be stopped, and knowing how it does get stopped in the end.

Not… necessarily.

If I'm playing a videogame, and I've never encountered [thing] before, never read any guides, etc, and someone says, "just fly - they can't hit you in the air", they've robbed me of learning and experiencing that for myself, as surely as someone spoiling the ending of a movie.

Now, do I *want* to roleplay through every single one of my characters learning to use fire on trolls? **** No! That's bloody boring! I *want* to usually play characters already in the know, or to have someone in the know "spoil" that for me. Because I've "learned" it so many times already.

However, if there are new players at the table? You only get one first time. It's a tricky thing, trying to guess whether they want "spoilers" or not, trying to guess whether they'll be best served by being handed a fish, or by being taught to fish.

I would say spotlight stealing or changing the feel of the game. Also, vermislitude (sp?).

Back before they're was such a thing as "knowledge skills", I started tracking which of my characters trained which of my characters, and what lore they passed on. It felt much more versimilitudinal than "nobody knows anything about the world they live in".

But feel and spotlight sharing are still potentially big issues. 4 statistically balanced characters, 3 fresh off the farm, one a grognard Playgrounder? That's not going to be balanced - and will certainly feel different than if the 4th PC had been fresh off the farm, too.

If the group cares about that feel, or cares about that sort of spotlight sharing, they should be upfront about it in session 0.

Odd to have only found groups that do cafe about such things. Sad that they judgementally declared you a "problem player", rather than pointing out any incompatibility with their playstyle.

[skyth]

Sad that they judgementally declared you a "problem player", rather than pointing out any incompatibility with their playstyle.

I haven't 'directly' been affect by this. Before I only GM'd because I know my playstyle is niche when I'm a player...And other related reasons. But since I've been interested in possibly playing again after my last group blew up a couple year ago...I started listening to Youtube videos, etc...And there's so many that spew vitrol against metagamers. I've also looked around for west-marches servers/games and immediately nope out because of anti-metagaming statements in the server rules.

It's just depressing seeing the bullying out there towards people that like to play the way I enjoy and I wonder if I should even bother trying to play again...And I think that's part of the point of the bullying.

[Duff]

I'm going to suggest if you frequently get hostility, maybe some of that is due to you.

Maybe you could be clearer up front about the sort of game you're looking for?
If you join a game and the rest of the players/GM ask you to do things differently you should either change or walk away. So maybe you've missed your cue to walk away?

Regardless, good luck finding a game which works for you

[skyth]

I'm going to suggest if you frequently get hostility, maybe some of that is due to you.

Mostly talking about video, etc. General hostility towards a playstyle compared to specific hostility to me. And I've seen hostility to my preferred play style for decades from 'wrong bad fun' 'roleplayers'. Back in the 2nd edition days, I actually saw one of them saying that you should be a Hollywood quality actor to be able to make it to 9th level...As if the only thing that you should get xp for is acting rather than what the rules say characters get xp for.

Maybe you could be clearer up front about the sort of game you're looking for?

I am VERY clear up front on what I am looking for now. It's only fair to everyone involved.

If you join a game and the rest of the players/GM ask you to do things differently you should either change or walk away. So maybe you've missed your cue to walk away?

The last time I was a player in a game was ~15 year ago. I've pretty much only GM'd since then. Now after a couple year hiatus, I'm thinking of playing again. I haven't had the time/energy/motivation to GM so want a more casual ability to be a player. I've been noping out left and right before even getting involved if I don't think it won't mesh with what I'm looking for. (Mostly West Marches servers).

Regardless, good luck finding a game which works for you

Thanks. I think I'll need it.

[King of Nowhere]

Mostly talking about video, etc. General hostility towards a playstyle compared to specific hostility to me. And I've seen hostility to my preferred play style for decades from 'wrong bad fun' 'roleplayers'. Back in the 2nd edition days, I actually saw one of them saying that you should be a Hollywood quality actor to be able to make it to 9th level...As if the only thing that you should get xp for is acting rather than what the rules say characters get xp for.



I am VERY clear up front on what I am looking for now. It's only fair to everyone involved.



The last time I was a player in a game was ~15 year ago. I've pretty much only GM'd since then. Now after a couple year hiatus, I'm thinking of playing again. I haven't had the time/energy/motivation to GM so want a more casual ability to be a player. I've been noping out left and right before even getting involved if I don't think it won't mesh with what I'm looking for. (Mostly West Marches servers).



Thanks. I think I'll need it.

oh, wait, if i get this right, you didn't face any hostility yourself. you saw youtube videos and forum posts with hostility towards your style.
if that's the case,
1) youtube is NOT a good way to gauge the general opinions. if you start looking on youtube, you may get the impression that dinosaurs are certainly an hoax and that we're still unsure about the shape of the earth, but 70% is flat.
2) people complaining about powergamer metagaming are generally only complaining about the worst cases, those who play to outshine their fellow players. if you get in a real group, it won't be this bad it's generally ok it depends on the group
3) often a specific server/site/group of people will tend to attract people of a certain opinion. those with different opinions will mostly leave for elsewhere. i don't know those servers you mention, or any online rpg servers, but i wouldn't take one server being polarized as something that must apply to all server.

[skyth]

I haven't noped out of all the Westmarches games due to metagaming concerns...Just saying one I visited had that in the actual rules.

I've noped out due to combinations of not starting at first level, only allowing 1 character, excessive control of options due to worry about powergamers, required writing up journals of sessions, weird house rules (I want to get the hang of the game itself first before worrying about house rules), only offering theater of the mind, severely limiting downtime activities (I won't be able to adventure much, but downtime is much easier to play with...)

[KineticDiplomat]

As a suggestion in all earnestness, given the following:

1) You don’t consider the social bit to really matter.

2) You’d prefer not to have to deal with RP, yours or others.

3) You want to be able to use your game knowledge extensively.

4) You’d rather not have to put in too much effort.

5) Your character is basically a tool set for addressing the D&D world problems using a known set of mechanics.

Have you tried playing a CRPG? I think BG3 is in EA, and there are other D&D based games floating across my steam page these days. You could skip the other people who are mostly obstacles for you and just solve Fantasy problems with toolset characters in encounters that have probably been far more fine tuned than most tables would be. All the heavy lifting is done for you, you can just click right through any RP you don’t feel like dealing with, and you don’t need to find a group. And you can get 40 hours of combat/tool key action done in way less than 6 months.

Wouldn’t be my solution to everyone’s search, but given your unique condition set you might find it to be exactly what you’re looking for.

[skyth]

Have you tried playing a CRPG? I think BG3 is in EA, and there are other D&D based games floating across my steam page these days.

I do want a social thing with people. Just not deal with social encounters (IE heavy roleplaying) and a CRPG is not open-ended the way that a RPG is. CRPG's are generally a scripted railroad though how wide the tracks are can vary :)

Plus honestly, the sex scenes in BG3 make me uncomfortable. I have some CRPG's (Pathfinder: Kingmaker) for instance, but it only holds my attention for so long...Haven't even made it to chapter 3 I believe even though I've started it multiple times.

Also, my knowledge is in monsters and lore, not in adventure plot. That I don't want to metagame.

[Duff]

Mostly talking about video, etc. General hostility towards a playstyle compared to specific hostility to me. And I've seen hostility to my preferred play style for decades from 'wrong bad fun' 'roleplayers'. Back in the 2nd edition days, I actually saw one of them saying that you should be a Hollywood quality actor to be able to make it to 9th level...As if the only thing that you should get xp for is acting rather than what the rules say characters get xp for..

Ah, elitism. 'nuff said

[Quertus]

Have you tried playing a CRPG?

Yeah. That sounds like a good…

I do want a social thing with people. Just not deal with social encounters (IE heavy roleplaying)

Oh. Well, how about a war game, then? No heavy RP, just…

and a CRPG is not open-ended the way that a RPG is.

Dang it!

How about… an RPG where *you* are a noob, where you *don't* have all the answers already?

[Composer99]

I don't think other players or DMs should be insulting your gameplay preferences, or impugning you for having them - whether personally or indirectly.

Beyond that, however, no table is obliged to share your preferences, or even value them beyond acknowledging that they are valid in and of themselves. If your set of gameplay preferences are sufficiently idiosyncratic that it's hard - even very hard - to find a table that shares them to a sufficient extent to make you feel comfortable at that table, I am not sure there is an easy solution.

That stated, one possibility, as noted by Xervous upthread, might be to try to find a different game system to play. Bonus points if it the default lore is sufficiently different from D&D that you are learning all of that for the first time at the same time as the mechanics - if there's no discrepancy between your character's expected in-game knowledge and your metagame knowledge, you couldn't conflict with that game's GM (or whatever title they'll go by) and/or other players on that score.

Mind you, that could just be opening a whole other can of worms. Might be worth a try.

[quinron]

Mostly talking about video, etc. General hostility towards a playstyle compared to specific hostility to me. And I've seen hostility to my preferred play style for decades from 'wrong bad fun' 'roleplayers'. Back in the 2nd edition days, I actually saw one of them saying that you should be a Hollywood quality actor to be able to make it to 9th level...As if the only thing that you should get xp for is acting rather than what the rules say characters get xp for.

I'm going to say that 80% of people making YouTube videos about D&D are also running their own actual play shows of their games, and 90% of the people doing that are trying to cash in on Critical Role. CR got a lot of people into D&D, but it seems that a lot of them missed that having a table composed entirely of professional actors is not standard. The YouTube guys don't seem to realize that "playing the game in a way that entertains me and my friends" and "playing the game in a way that entertains me, my friends, and our Twitch audience" have very different skillsets and rules of decorum.

Honestly, I think if you're looking for online games on web forums, you're going to have a harder time finding what you're looking for. In my experience, GMs who run things over voice/video chat apps have tended to be more "story-based," "theater of the mind" types, and it sounds like your lack of interest in the social playacting side of things will make that both tedious and unfulfilling. In-person games will probably have a more "hanging out with friends/acquaintances" vibe that lends itself more to kick-in-the-door, beer-and-pretzels gameplay that it sounds like you prefer.

You might try looking for a Discord server or subreddit centered on your area. Just yesterday I joined the gaming server for my city, and I've already met and started chatting with a couple guys who might be interested in joining a game, at least short-term.

[Lacco]

How about… an RPG where *you* are a noob, where you *don't* have all the answers already?

Yup. I'd suggest one where trolls are 40' giants whose breath melts you due to amount of acid they breathe out, dragons are not color coded and where "heavy RP" can be dealth with via mechanics.

However, if the OP only accepts D&D, then yes, the depression will need to be dealt with. The gold age from Quertus' stories (e.g. having multiple characters, switching tables at will, little to no RP, just fun adventuring and dungeon delving) is long past. Currently we have the story arcs, complicated characters and oftentimes games where nobody rolls dice for the whole session - and it's fine. You can still most probably find tables where the "old school" style is at play - heck, I tried my hand at it few times (failing badly).

But it seems like a minority - and you are most of the time better off creating a table for yourself than finding one that suits you if your preferences are strong.