Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

[geoduck]

Nah, we would just figure he was living with rats a lot time.

I am curious what the Foglio's have in store for this British princess. I mean Rakethorn could have provided background just as easily.

The obvious option is that she becomes (a mortal) Queen of Great Britain after Albia dies. (Which I expect to happen before we're done here.)

[Manga Shoggoth]

I am curious what the Foglio's have in store for this British princess. I mean Rakethorn could have provided background just as easily.

Ah, but this is Neena's specialist subject. She works in that part of the Museum. Rakethorn is an able spark, but I doubt that he speciallises in the history of Queens.

EDIT: Today's comic: Oh, is Neena showing a little interest in that nice Mr Rakethorn? Or am I reading a little too much in the phrasing?

[PraetorDragoon]

It is strange, but I keep forgetting Rakethron exists.

[DaFlipp]

It is strange, but I keep forgetting Rakethron exists.

Me too, especially since he looks just similar enough to Wooster (at least in group shots/from a distance, obviously they have *very* different builds!) that I keep having to remind myself that, no, Wooster's gone, we have Worse Wooster now.

Personal opinions ahoy:

I think that the Foglios did *such* a good job setting up this comic's central love triangle that it's getting hard to see any of the external temptations/complications as particularly "threatening" to them, so they need to have other hooks to make them interesting. Tweedle is defined primarily by his ambition rather than his interest in Agatha so he gets a pass, and Seffie's relationship with Tweedle is arguably more important than her (desired) relationship with Gil, plus her *genuine* affection for him makes it somewhat tragic that he is very unlikely to return said affection, so she's engaging too.

Trelawney works less in my opinion, but at least the potential of Gil falling for her was set up *ages* ago with his clear fanboyishness over the "Spark of the Realm", and the fact she clearly would have preferred to end up with Wooster adds an intriguing layer of tragedy over her ongoing "seduce Gil" mission. I could easily see them bonding over how much they miss him, which could in turn lead to her coming clean (or at least lead to internal conflict on her part as she grapples with betraying the memory of her lost companion).

Rakethorn? He's a handsome dude that we, the audience, know is only there to try and win over Agatha on the behalf of the Queen. To my knowledge he hasn't really shown us any dimensions beyond that, and he hasn't shown any particularly interesting connections to other cast members that I can recall (apart from playing straight man to Da Boyz for that little stretch back before they met the Great Cetacean). And since, again, the core trio is *so* well-established and has *such* good chemistry, it's hard for the audience to really get swept up in what is, thus far, his only real defining aspect (other than general competence in fights/action sequences, but everyone not named Krosp in the main cast has *that*).

That said! The Foglios have been doing this for a long time, and seem to know what they're doing. Given that the ongoing mission to split up the main trio is, thus far, the shadiest thing the Queen has been up to (at least as pertains to our heroes), I suspect that Rakethorn is going to serve *some* important role down the road. Thus far, he's been playing up the Rake part of his name (that is, this version of a rake, not this version); I think the Thorn is yet to come.

[Manga Shoggoth]

That said! The Foglios have been doing this for a long time, and seem to know what they're doing.

Absolutely!

From my angle, Trelawney does fit better in the story than Rakethorn. I think the reason that Rakethorn came in to the story was that Wooster's loyalties were too openly split. He's clearly loyal to Gil, Agatha and Albia (Interestingly, when Gil intimidates him, he threatens England and Albia). At least the Foglios wrote him out in style, holding the flag to the last.

I have a vague suspicion that the end of story pairings (if any - the Circus' show might have been telegraphing a "no pairing with Agatha") are going to be Gil/Trelawney, Agatha/Tarvek and as a consolation, Neena/Rakethorn (I'm not sure who will be consoling Seffie, though...) - but the story still has a few more pages to go.

[multilis]

" Agatha/Tarvek" Tarvek imo is very unlikely, Gil probably gets Agatha. Main way I see Tarvek having a chance is if Gil has to sacrifice his life to save the world which would mean Tarvek gets Agatha and they name their first son Gil. Gil has always been setup as the one Agatha is madly in love with, and Tarvek as second choice.

Tarvek is the guy who helped wasp Klaus (and thus helping the Other would seem like good idea if he won agatha in end), while Gil is the guy that Bang sees future time travelling with Agatha probably saving the world from the mess that younger Tarvek helped create. (To Tarveks credit, his gamble with the Other also means he will be in better position to help unwasp everyone in end)

[Shining Wrath]

" Agatha/Tarvek" Tarvek imo is very unlikely, Gil probably gets Agatha. Main way I see Tarvek having a chance is if Gil has to sacrifice his life to save the world which would mean Tarvek gets Agatha and they name their first son Gil. Gil has always been setup as the one Agatha is madly in love with, and Tarvek as second choice.

Tarvek is the guy who helped wasp Klaus (and thus helping the Other would seem like good idea if he won agatha in end), while Gil is the guy that Bang sees future time travelling with Agatha probably saving the world from the mess that younger Tarvek helped create. (To Tarveks credit, his gamble with the Other also means he will be in better position to help unwasp everyone in end)

Considering some of the other works by the Foglios, open relationships shouldn't be ruled out. Also, Bang maybe saw one of several possible futures?

[geoduck]

Wooster was a lot more trustworthy than Rakethorn; if there ever comes a moment when Albia's and Agatha's interests directly conflict, we know exactly whose side Rakethorn will choose. Wooster was a loyal Englishman, but would at least be conflicted if that loyalty called for stabbing Agatha in the back.

[Fyraltari]

What surprises me is that I don't recall any other possible love interests for Tarvek. Gil gets all the attention.

[DaFlipp]

What surprises me is that I don't recall any other possible love interests for Tarvek. Gil gets all the attention.

Interestingly, if his original Plan had come to fruition and no Agatha had shown up to disrupt it, he would have presumably ended up marrying Zola. Going to guess *that's* off the table now...

I don't find it particularly likely, but part of me thinks the funniest endgame romantic pairing for Tarvek would be Bang. Not going to justify how because I seriously don't expect it to happen, but again - hilarious if it did.

Frankly, *if* the strip ends up confirming an endgame pairing for Agatha (hardly an assured thing, especially if they want to continue her adventures in other media), I've reached the point where I'll be a little surprised if they *didn't* go with some sort of poly arrangement between the main trio; for me, the main question is whether it would be a "both boys like Agatha and tolerate each other" or a "each of them romantically involved with the other two" situation - after all, especially since the time skip, Tarvek and Gil have spent a *lot* of time rescuing each other, being comforted by the presence of the other, showing newfound respect for and dedication to one another, etc.

It feels very much like, bare minimum, setting up the notion they care about one another enough to tolerate each others' presence in a polycule. Though the argument could obviously be made it's to set up their willingness to tolerate it if the other outright "wins" Agatha in the end! And of course there's still a lot of plot left to go.

I am interested in the fact that, not for the first time post-time-skip, we have Gil and Tarvek paired up on a completely different plot rail from Agatha; I think the chances of an OT3 arising from all this is going to hinge on how they get on with each other in Paris/while fighting the Polar Lords (assuming they don't get shenanigan'd away from that somehow).

[Manga Shoggoth]

What surprises me is that I don't recall any other possible love interests for Tarvek. Gil gets all the attention.

Well, at the very least Neena has shown an interest... And she's a good deal more wholesome than Zola (not that this is a high bar to clear).

But Tarvek has only relatively recently been openly playing the Storm King card (first declared it to Otilia, I think), while Gil has been declared the Baron's Son for quite some time.

[Shining Wrath]

The thing about Tarvek is, he's focused, and subtle. If he's moving forward toward marrying Agatha and becoming Storm King, he's doing it behind the scenes.
He may be setting up the unexpected yet inevitable betrayal of Gil - which he'll have to do in a way that Agatha will *never* discover, which takes some doing. Or not- he does seem to genuinely like him, and could have let him die at least once.
And he's absolutely working toward killing Martellus. That will be a moment, probably set up for a dozen strips or more.

[Ellen]

So, Agatha's related to a pope. A Heterodyne pope. Even if he went full Heterodyne in the end, I'm really not sure what to think about that.

Also, not sure about Der Kestle and the Train's conclusion. I mean, Agatha wants to be a decent person and she definitely doesn't want to be like Lucy. But, she's recognized that she has responsibilities to her town, her people, and the various monsters who served her family. She's a grayer character than she was in the beginning.

She's not planning to play a long game, but I'm not entirely sure where she's going to wind up (although I guarantee she's going to do better than Daenerys, no matter how crazy she gets).

[Deliverance]

So, Agatha's related to a pope. A Heterodyne pope. Even if he went full Heterodyne in the end, I'm really not sure what to think about that.

One has to wonder whether the Pope Giles incident has anything to do with the split in the Catholic church that led to the current seven papacies, or whether that came later.

[Maryring]

The background shots of the latest page are just...

[Shining Wrath]

The minions are nostalgic for True Villainy. Could the castle possibly turn on Agatha if a Heterodyne heir of greater villainy presents itself?

Agatha was raised by the Clays, and the Clays were constructs hiding from the Baron with a certain underworld aspect to that. Her morality is likely to be quite situational rather than ingrained or carefully thought out. Which is to say, push her enough and she's likely to go Full Heterodyne. We saw a glimpse of that recently with Bang; we also saw it at the battle of Sturmhalten when she was ready to kill people by the hundreds in order to save her friends. She'd turned the entire caravan into battle wagons of great lethality.

She wants to be a heroine; she wants to save innocent bystanders; she'll charge into battle at great personal risk to save a caravan of entertainers. But if Gil is in danger, or Tarvek, or Zeetha, she'd level a city to save them - if there was no other choice. Do not make her choose between conventional morality and her friends. In D&D terms, if she was a Paladin, it would not be difficult to make her fall.

[geoduck]

One has to wonder whether the Pope Giles incident has anything to do with the split in the Catholic church that led to the current seven papacies, or whether that came later.

Not quite canon of course, but the print novels note that the split occurred when an army of Anabaptist Alchemists sacked Rome.

[Manga Shoggoth]

The minions are nostalgic for True Villainy. Could the castle possibly turn on Agatha if a Heterodyne heir of greater villainy presents itself?

I don't think so - after all, it dealt with Bill and Barry (I think Bill was the Heterodyne, but I really can't remember for sure). The novels note that Mechanicsberg as a whole was not best pleased to start with, but the Castle (and Carson von Mekkahn) stayed firm and that was that.

[BRC]

The minions are nostalgic for True Villainy. Could the castle possibly turn on Agatha if a Heterodyne heir of greater villainy presents itself?

Agatha was raised by the Clays, and the Clays were constructs hiding from the Baron with a certain underworld aspect to that. Her morality is likely to be quite situational rather than ingrained or carefully thought out. Which is to say, push her enough and she's likely to go Full Heterodyne. We saw a glimpse of that recently with Bang; we also saw it at the battle of Sturmhalten when she was ready to kill people by the hundreds in order to save her friends. She'd turned the entire caravan into battle wagons of great lethality.

She wants to be a heroine; she wants to save innocent bystanders; she'll charge into battle at great personal risk to save a caravan of entertainers. But if Gil is in danger, or Tarvek, or Zeetha, she'd level a city to save them - if there was no other choice. Do not make her choose between conventional morality and her friends. In D&D terms, if she was a Paladin, it would not be difficult to make her fall.

The Castle is fanatically loyal to the House of Heterodyne, it LOVES evil, but I don't think it would ever reject a heterodyne for being too heroic.

The Train loves Carnage, but has been cowed and tamed.


I see it that there are four Legacies in play, and our protagonists are kind of finding their way between them.

The Heterodyne: The legacy of the Madboy Tyrant with an army of Monsters.

The Storm King: The Hero-King who will bring peace to the land.

The Baron Wulfenbach: The cold pragmatist who technically wants what's best for everybody.

The Boys: The Inspiring, Beloved Heroes who reject political power, instead taking a hands-on approach to the world's problems.

Agatha kind of bounces between The Heterodyne and The Boys. She's doing lots of Hero Stuff, but she's very much The Leader Of Mechanisburg in a way her father and uncle were not. She's Heroic, but her heroism is pretty Personal.

Gil: Honestly? Kind of walking the line between The Heterodyne (Defending a single valley due to Monomania) and The Storm King. I think he's too innately Heroic to really claim the legacy of The Baron. It's really just a question of if he wants to play the Hero or the Madman.

Tarvek: Tarvek is, at this point, balancing the legacies of The Boys and The Baron. He's enough of a weasel and pragmatist, it really just depends if he ends up in a position of political power, or boots on the ground Adventuring.


Tweedle isn't a protagonist, but he's the other big factor here. He's the one openly and loudly trying to be The Storm King, but Gil is more in line with that Legacy. Tweedle is cold and selfish, which kind of puts him somewhere between The Baron and The Heterodyne to be honest.

[Shining Wrath]

The Castle is fanatically loyal to the House of Heterodyne, it LOVES evil, but I don't think it would ever reject a heterodyne for being too heroic.

The Train loves Carnage, but has been cowed and tamed.


I see it that there are four Legacies in play, and our protagonists are kind of finding their way between them.

The Heterodyne: The legacy of the Madboy Tyrant with an army of Monsters.

The Storm King: The Hero-King who will bring peace to the land.

The Baron Wulfenbach: The cold pragmatist who technically wants what's best for everybody.

The Boys: The Inspiring, Beloved Heroes who reject political power, instead taking a hands-on approach to the world's problems.

Agatha kind of bounces between The Heterodyne and The Boys. She's doing lots of Hero Stuff, but she's very much The Leader Of Mechanisburg in a way her father and uncle were not. She's Heroic, but her heroism is pretty Personal.

Gil: Honestly? Kind of walking the line between The Heterodyne (Defending a single valley due to Monomania) and The Storm King. I think he's too innately Heroic to really claim the legacy of The Baron. It's really just a question of if he wants to play the Hero or the Madman.

Tarvek: Tarvek is, at this point, balancing the legacies of The Boys and The Baron. He's enough of a weasel and pragmatist, it really just depends if he ends up in a position of political power, or boots on the ground Adventuring.


Tweedle isn't a protagonist, but he's the other big factor here. He's the one openly and loudly trying to be The Storm King, but Gil is more in line with that Legacy. Tweedle is cold and selfish, which kind of puts him somewhere between The Baron and The Heterodyne to be honest.

I like this decomposition.

Tweedle is probably more Baron-ish, as he really thinks he's entitled to rule and doesn't seem to have the Heterodyne level of depravity and insanity. Tarvek might very well rise to the occasion if he becomes Storm King and actually rule benevolently and well.

If you make Agatha angry, she becomes The Heterodyne. If she's thinking more or less clearly, she is her father's daughter. The question is, can a Spark of her innate power (which is pretty much off the charts) be counted on to think clearly? They don't call it the Madness Place for nothing.

EDIT: Actually, there's a fifth model: the Other / Lucrezia model of "I will rule everything forever and commit any crime, kill any number of innocents, and commit unthinkable depravities to gain more power". The Heterodyne, but writ large and without loyalty to Mechanicsburg or their family.

[BRC]

I like this decomposition.

Tweedle is probably more Baron-ish, as he really thinks he's entitled to rule and doesn't seem to have the Heterodyne level of depravity and insanity. Tarvek might very well rise to the occasion if he becomes Storm King and actually rule benevolently and well.

If you make Agatha angry, she becomes The Heterodyne. If she's thinking more or less clearly, she is her father's daughter. The question is, can a Spark of her innate power (which is pretty much off the charts) be counted on to think clearly? They don't call it the Madness Place for nothing.

EDIT: Actually, there's a fifth model: the Other / Lucrezia model of "I will rule everything forever and commit any crime, kill any number of innocents, and commit unthinkable depravities to gain more power". The Heterodyne, but writ large and without loyalty to Mechanicsburg or their family.

I don't really think any of our relevant characters are at risk of the Other's Legacy.

I'm defining this mostly by the idea of "What is this character's idea of Good".


The Heterodyne's idea of Good is a selfish one, "What is good for me and mine". Yes, the Heterodynes are self-defined Villains, but they seemed to genuniely care for and protect Mechanisburg. It's a selfishness that grows beyond the self.


The Storm King is a Romantic Ideal of Goodness, the Hero King with his Grand Army. This legacy requires a certain degree of both Ambition and Romance to achieve. It's not just about "Making the world a better place", it's about doing everything the Heroic Way.

Ambition without Romance is The Baron, the cold pragmatist keeping things afloat with a delicate juggling act. The Baron did good, but he wasn't a Hero.

Romance without Ambition is The Boys, the Wandering Heroes Solving Problems. When all you care about is Doing Right in the world, you can't really build an army behind you.


Gill thinks big, which is why I put him between The Storm King and The Heterodyne, since it largely comes down to if he views his Empire as a way to Save the World, or if he mostly views it as a way to Save Those He Cares About. He's a little too Brash to be The Baron, but he might be stupid enough to be The Storm King.

Tarvek has trouble turning down heroics that are right in his face (The Boys), but when sitting back with room to scheme, he's as pragmatic as they come, hence why I put him with The Baron and The Boys. It mostly just depends on where he ends up. I don't think he has the exuberance to pull off being The Storm King. That role requires a certain genuine idealism which he lacks.


Tweedle...is not a Good Person. He's smart, and he likes the IDEA of being the Storm King, but he isn't a genuine Hero, not like Gil or Agatha are. He wants Power, and the story of the Storm King is a useful tool for getting it.

The real question is, why does he want such power. If the answer is "To enact his every whim", then he's our heir to the legacy of The Heterodyne, he's just a pragmatist who understands that he can't rule if the Other takes over first.
If he genuinely wants to make Europa a good place to live, he'd end up as The Baron. He might be playing the Storm King, but that would be him going even farther beyond Klaus as far as cold pragmatism. As he says, Klaus would have had the families at his feet if he'd called himself Emperor and agreed to play their games.

[TeChameleon]

Huh- put like that, the old Heterodynes remind me oddly of one of Terry Pratchett's quotes-

“All witches are selfish, the Queen had said. But Tiffany’s Third Thoughts said: Then turn selfishness into a weapon! Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world! How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine!

I have a duty!”

... granted, that's perhaps a bit more benevolent than the Heterodynes, but the general sentiment (at least regarding Mechanicsburg) seems to be in the same ballpark.

Honestly rather intrigued to see how the Dyne and the Queens tie together- there does seem to be some kind of link there, even if only tenuously, and this seems like a decent spot to find out more about it.

[Shining Wrath]

Do we have a gender identity for Castle Heterodyne?
Because it just occurred to me that maybe Der Kestle is a form of a Queen - tapping the power of the Dyne, immortal, toying with mortals. In which case the Heterodyne dynasty should be thought of as similar to Albia's children.

[The Glyphstone]

Its original personality template was a copy of Faustus Heterodyne, who was male. But its been consistently referred to without gender and as a massive building very likely doesn't assign one to itself either.

[Shining Wrath]

Its original personality template was a copy of Faustus Heterodyne, who was male. But its been consistently referred to without gender and as a massive building very likely doesn't assign one to itself either.

Since we don't know why there are only Queens and not Kings, we don't know if it's a biological or personality trait that makes the difference. And as you say, buildings don't normally have gender except casually, in the same way that ships or cars might.

The basic idea that the Castle has similarities to Albia still seems to hold. We know that drinking Dyne water put Agatha into Queen mode; the Castle taps into the whole power of the Dyne constantly.

[Divayth Fyr]

One thing to consider - when Lucrezia (in Agatha's body) ascended, she claimed that one needs an "organic mind" to do so (as she said, "build the Spark into a flame, an inferno"). Of course we do not have all the details on der Kastle's construction, but I have some doubts about a mind like that being in the centre of it...

[Fyraltari]

Since we don't know why there are only Queens and not Kings, we don't know if it's a biological or personality trait that makes the difference.

Snackleford managed a second breakthrough.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Snackleford managed a second breakthrough.

But he did it by stealing a lot of power from elsewhere.

Mind you, that scene makes me think - Did Dimitri have a second breakthrough at some point?

[geoduck]

But he did it by stealing a lot of power from elsewhere.

Mind you, that scene makes me think - Did Dimitri have a second breakthrough at some point?

And maybe that's how the queens did it too and/or maintained their power.

[Fyraltari]

But he did it by stealing a lot of power from elsewhere.

And? Agatha had a temporary Second Breakthrough by drinking from the Dyne and The Other mentionned Albia's "power source". It looks like everybody needs to get it from elsewhere.