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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    The fastest modes of travel (other than Mirrors) shown in the GGverse are steam trains and dirigibles. And invading on a train is usually not a good idea. Their route is rather predictable.

    Assuming airborne troops on dirigibles, the Graf Zeppelin maxed out around 80 mph. If you have enough, you could be seizing cities 640 miles from the border at H-hour + 8. So ... given enough dirigibles (and consider the size of Castle Wulfenbach before tossing out the idea), you could start from "Russia" and be close to Mechanicsburg in a day.

    Given that Zola's making a big move for Mechanicsburg (which, as I said, may not work out like she hopes), Albia's move is first to stop The Other - that is priority one for every ruler in Europa. Her, Martellus, the Master of Paris, Agatha, Gil - they agree on one thing. But once this threat is beaten back - does Albia see advantages to having significant forces in the heart of Wulfenbach territory, near Mechanicsburg? She may indeed.

    In panel 5 - maybe it's because he's the biggest person, but Tweedle looks more shocked than anyone else.

    EDIT:

    This poses quite the dilemma for Agatha. Does she go get Prende's Lantern to break the Time Stop and defend Mechanicsburg from within? Or does she go back and defend Mechanicsburg from without?
    Letting the Jagers out of Mechanicsburg is obviously helpful to its defense. And assuming the Castle still has power, letting the Castle do its thing is very helpful.
    OTOH, maybe the Other can't get into Mechanicsburg, and this is a ploy of some sort - maybe part of the plan is for Agatha to drop the shield.
    OTO,OH, maybe The Other has done some time travel trick and been inside Mechanicsburg and done something to prime it to fall easily.
    Last edited by Shining Wrath; 2021-03-19 at 07:59 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Considering this a world of MAD SCIENCE! I wouldn't put to hard a max speed of 80 MPH on the Zeppelins. Being picky aside, you are absolutely correct. Airships can move quickly and with heavy forces. Much of the area they are crossing to get to Mechanicsburg is probably already wasped (or under control of one who is) allowing the attackers to move fast, bypassing areas that might slow them down as well as physical barriers that slow down ground forces such as rivers, passes and defensive fortifications.

    I wonder though, what if Gil didn't plan for a possible invasion and put everything in place to handle things even if he wasn't there. We know he knew the Other had taken control in the area. And we have seen evidence that Gil has traveled around before. (Remember the time skip was 2 1/2 years and Gil's encounter was only two years ago.)
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    I hope Albia saves some of the fury for herself. As it's become increasingly clear Lucresia / the Other is an incredible and still active threat, present even in England, Albia's been holding parties and ceremonies and scheming to make Agatha part of her menagerie. She should have been putting the country on a war footing; instead, she's been making it easy for her enemies. That's the sort of thing that gets god-queens toppled and their people turned into slaves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    The fastest modes of travel (other than Mirrors) shown in the GGverse are steam trains and dirigibles. And invading on a train is usually not a good idea. Their route is rather predictable.

    Assuming airborne troops on dirigibles, the Graf Zeppelin maxed out around 80 mph. If you have enough, you could be seizing cities 640 miles from the border at H-hour + 8. So ... given enough dirigibles (and consider the size of Castle Wulfenbach before tossing out the idea), you could start from "Russia" and be close to Mechanicsburg in a day.

    Given that Zola's making a big move for Mechanicsburg (which, as I said, may not work out like she hopes), Albia's move is first to stop The Other - that is priority one for every ruler in Europa. Her, Martellus, the Master of Paris, Agatha, Gil - they agree on one thing. But once this threat is beaten back - does Albia see advantages to having significant forces in the heart of Wulfenbach territory, near Mechanicsburg? She may indeed.

    In panel 5 - maybe it's because he's the biggest person, but Tweedle looks more shocked than anyone else.

    EDIT:

    This poses quite the dilemma for Agatha. Does she go get Prende's Lantern to break the Time Stop and defend Mechanicsburg from within? Or does she go back and defend Mechanicsburg from without?
    Letting the Jagers out of Mechanicsburg is obviously helpful to its defense. And assuming the Castle still has power, letting the Castle do its thing is very helpful.
    OTOH, maybe the Other can't get into Mechanicsburg, and this is a ploy of some sort - maybe part of the plan is for Agatha to drop the shield.
    OTO,OH, maybe The Other has done some time travel trick and been inside Mechanicsburg and done something to prime it to fall easily.
    Unless the Other has some way to unfreeze the city, the worst her forces can do is destroy it. Which is admittedly still pretty bad. If Agatha returns immediately she has limited resources with which to defend. If she gets the Lantern first, not only might she be able to reactivate the city and unleash all the power inside, but the Lantern itself may well be a powerful weapon. Her instinct will be to fly to Mechanicsburg; her intelligence, I think, will send her to the island.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Considering this a world of MAD SCIENCE! I wouldn't put to hard a max speed of 80 MPH on the Zeppelins. Being picky aside, you are absolutely correct. Airships can move quickly and with heavy forces. Much of the area they are crossing to get to Mechanicsburg is probably already wasped (or under control of one who is) allowing the attackers to move fast, bypassing areas that might slow them down as well as physical barriers that slow down ground forces such as rivers, passes and defensive fortifications.
    Hmm, I'm sure there's a Blitzkrieg spark out there.


    Also, I wonder if it's a false message from Paris, something to pull troops from England before an invasion?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Hmm, I'm sure there's a Blitzkrieg spark out there.


    Also, I wonder if it's a false message from Paris, something to pull troops from England before an invasion?
    Who in Paris, though? Colette's not stupid enough to go up against Albia, mere weeks (at most) after succeeding to the position.
    Last edited by theangelJean; 2021-03-20 at 02:36 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    It's possible that this invasion was prompted by Zola's pseudo-defeat in Paris actually. Her cover got rather decisively blown during the who Storm King fracas and she knows it. The various members of the Storm King Conspiracy, including Tarvek and Martellus would surely move against her, and Gil would probably join them, the minute they returned to their respective power bases. She knows the clock is ticking and is throwing her forces at Mechanicsburg in an effort to seize it before her control of the North is opposed.

    This scenario seems most likely to me if Zola has retained independence from Lucrezia and is operating an agenda that while identical to that of The Other in method, is actually not in line with Lucrezia's plans at all. However, we simply can't know whether Zola represents a semi-independent faction or simply a pawn of the Other until more is revealed.

    In any case if Zola started assembling an invasion force immediately after leaving Paris, that timeline is at least plausible.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    Who in Paris, though? Colette's not stupid enough to go up against Albia, mere weeks (at most) after succeeding to the position.
    If the message is fake, what makes you think it's actually been send from Paris?
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    nah, it would turn in to a smoking pile of rubble it it weren’t under water.
    so it will just turn in to a wet pile of rubble.
    It's England. It would be a pile or wet rubble even if it wasn't under water.


    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    And in that link I think you have nailed the next step - Gil and Tarvek (see last panel) will have to return to deal with The Other, leaving Agatha and Rakethorn together. I don't think it's a fake message, just Albia adapting to circumstances.

    Not sure what will happen to Tweedle, though - the Gil arguement also means that Martellus should return to Europa, but he may have to go with Agatha due to Mad Science gone wrong.

    Oh, and I don't think that Albia's anger is necessarly directly at Gil - after all, she was quite happy for him to be there earlier, and was trying to give him pushes in the right direction. Remember how much Albia hates the Other, and she has just had news of an invasion and is herself caught flat-footed.

    Oh, and I don't think Traab's suggestion that Albia has somehow been wasped should be forgotten - this does seem a little out of character for Albia. (the only other time we have seen simillar anger was with Vapnoople - even her "Lucrezia was behind everything" reaction was more restrained).
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    If the message is fake, what makes you think it's actually been send from Paris?
    Could be entirely a false flag, but you have to assume someone who has been in power as long as Albia has ways of verifying those things.

    But, maybe I'm just too hopeful that it isn't. We really don't need yet another red herring arc distracting everyone.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    With regards to the idea of using massed dirigibles to move a million man army (as opposed to using a few to land a raiding force behind enemy lines), consider that the largest airships built in history - and most we've seen in the story are smaller - could carry around 100 people with light equipment/little baggage, and that's counting both crew and passengers.

    (And as for speed, that's pretty much limited by the drag coefficient and the large frontal surface area, and the larger the airship, the more you want it to carry, the worse this gets.)

    Any power that built enough dirigibles of whatever size, even something as ridiculous as Castle Wulfenbach, to transport million men armies with heavy armaments wouldn't be known as the Polar Lords, but as "the idiots who bankrupted themselves building dirigibles and caused neighbouring states to upgrade their anti-air defenses".

    Anyhow, all that is pretty much irrelevant to the story. If the Foglios say a million man army has swarmed northern Europe overrunning its cities in a single day and are now advancing on the Carpathian Foothills, and that Gilgamesh now setting off from England with naval and army support is a sensible counter to this, so be it. It makes absolutely no sense, but it would be far from the most ridiculous event in the story so far. It probably won't even make the top 10.
    Last edited by Deliverance; 2021-03-20 at 09:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverance View Post
    Anyhow, all that is pretty much irrelevant to the story. If the Foglios say a million man army has swarmed northern Europe overrunning its cities in a single day and are now advancing on the Carpathian Foothills, and that Gilgamesh now setting off from England with naval and army support is a sensible counter to this, so be it. It makes absolutely no sense, but it would be far from the most ridiculous event in the story so far. It probably won't even make the top 10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    Could be entirely a false flag, but you have to assume someone who has been in power as long as Albia has ways of verifying those things.

    But, maybe I'm just too hopeful that it isn't. We really don't need yet another red herring arc distracting everyone.
    Maybe, like the late Master of Paris, Albia has become lax. Beausoleil is still at large. If anyone can mimic a message from Paris with correct security codes, it would be him.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    No, the REAL reason Gil's being sent off is so that he can't interfere with the Bangladesh and Zeetha fight.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by TaRix View Post
    No, the REAL reason Gil's being sent off is so that he can't interfere with the Bangladesh and Zeetha fight.
    Albia's betting a small fortune on that one after all.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Maybe, like the late Master of Paris, Albia has become lax. Beausoleil is still at large. If anyone can mimic a message from Paris with correct security codes, it would be him.
    A false flag is highly unlikely. Albia's means of announcing this is unreasonable, but the invasion plot is a highly appropriate method to do something absolutely necessary: separate the main cast into groups of a workable size. There's simply too many of them for everyone to be in the same place at once.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Maybe, like the late Master of Paris, Albia has become lax. Beausoleil is still at large. If anyone can mimic a message from Paris with correct security codes, it would be him.
    You're assuming the codes weren't changed wholecloth after his treachery and the scale of Paris' infiltration was discovered? Colette seems wiser than that.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    True, Collette seems to have a pretty good head on her shoulders, but changing all the codes takes time, time which, unless there's been a time jump that I missed, simply hasn't passed. That being said, I don't see a lot of benefit for Beausoleil to get Albia all in an uproar about happenings on the continent, especially since (as far as I remember) he doesn't have any connection to the Other.

    Part of me is wondering if this is the point where Lucrezia shifts back to being slightly more sympathetic; if the Polar Lords are under Zola's thumb, rather than Lucrezia's, then they may be driven by Zola's spite about being booted out of Mechanicsburg, rather than Lulu's more rational terror of the approaching higher-dimensional beings (and if there's anyone on the standard plane of existence in GG that would know to be worried about them, it'd be the Muse of Time), and Lucrezia has a chance to grow beyond 'zombie-making-mind-warping-all-devouring monster', since the ones who are looking in on the Baron's time stop are on a whole new level in terms of dangerous-ness.

    ... actually wondering if we're going to hit an (TVTropes link warning) Angels, Devils and Squid situation, where the best and the worst team up to fight off tentacled oblivion.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    True, Collette seems to have a pretty good head on her shoulders, but changing all the codes takes time, time which, unless there's been a time jump that I missed, simply hasn't passed. That being said, I don't see a lot of benefit for Beausoleil to get Albia all in an uproar about happenings on the continent, especially since (as far as I remember) he doesn't have any connection to the Other.

    Part of me is wondering if this is the point where Lucrezia shifts back to being slightly more sympathetic; if the Polar Lords are under Zola's thumb, rather than Lucrezia's, then they may be driven by Zola's spite about being booted out of Mechanicsburg, rather than Lulu's more rational terror of the approaching higher-dimensional beings (and if there's anyone on the standard plane of existence in GG that would know to be worried about them, it'd be the Muse of Time), and Lucrezia has a chance to grow beyond 'zombie-making-mind-warping-all-devouring monster', since the ones who are looking in on the Baron's time stop are on a whole new level in terms of dangerous-ness.

    ... actually wondering if we're going to hit an (TVTropes link warning) Angels, Devils and Squid situation, where the best and the worst team up to fight off tentacled oblivion.
    I think 2 weeks to a month since Paris is a decent estimate. When Martellus shows up, Seffie's smoke knight says Seffie hasn't slept in 'days'. If we say it took a few days to a week for Martellus to start showing symptoms and then a day or two to figure it while it gets serious, then a sleepless day or two to get England. We're at a minimum of a week more likely two. The longer it took for his symptoms to show the longer a feasible time gap is.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Is it time for Agatha to go, "You are A queen, not mine."? Should be interesting to see how things go. I fully expect a "You DARE?!" type reaction, though if its real, feigned to cause what albia wants to happen, or a sign of an impending breakdown in friendliness between them remains to be seen. Sparks dont like to be thwarted, neither does royalty, and when you are both as well as having ruled for centuries without question, i imagine that tacks on a multiplier.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    at least she is asserting her autonomy, even if that was what albia was going to tell her to do.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by locksmith of lo View Post
    at least she is asserting her autonomy, even if that was what albia was going to tell her to do.
    agreed, way better than:
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    It's possible that this invasion was prompted by Zola's pseudo-defeat in Paris actually. Her cover got rather decisively blown during the who Storm King fracas and she knows it. The various members of the Storm King Conspiracy, including Tarvek and Martellus would surely move against her, and Gil would probably join them, the minute they returned to their respective power bases. She knows the clock is ticking and is throwing her forces at Mechanicsburg in an effort to seize it before her control of the North is opposed.

    This scenario seems most likely to me if Zola has retained independence from Lucrezia and is operating an agenda that while identical to that of The Other in method, is actually not in line with Lucrezia's plans at all. However, we simply can't know whether Zola represents a semi-independent faction or simply a pawn of the Other until more is revealed.

    In any case if Zola started assembling an invasion force immediately after leaving Paris, that timeline is at least plausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    If the message is fake, what makes you think it's actually been send from Paris?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverance View Post
    With regards to the idea of using massed dirigibles to move a million man army (as opposed to using a few to land a raiding force behind enemy lines), consider that the largest airships built in history - and most we've seen in the story are smaller - could carry around 100 people with light equipment/little baggage, and that's counting both crew and passengers.

    (And as for speed, that's pretty much limited by the drag coefficient and the large frontal surface area, and the larger the airship, the more you want it to carry, the worse this gets.)

    Any power that built enough dirigibles of whatever size, even something as ridiculous as Castle Wulfenbach, to transport million men armies with heavy armaments wouldn't be known as the Polar Lords, but as "the idiots who bankrupted themselves building dirigibles and caused neighbouring states to upgrade their anti-air defenses".

    Anyhow, all that is pretty much irrelevant to the story. If the Foglios say a million man army has swarmed northern Europe overrunning its cities in a single day and are now advancing on the Carpathian Foothills, and that Gilgamesh now setting off from England with naval and army support is a sensible counter to this, so be it. It makes absolutely no sense, but it would be far from the most ridiculous event in the story so far. It probably won't even make the top 10.
    First and most important point that seems to be missed: Zola is a prisoner. Whatever Zola is doing, she is doing at the direction of Grandma Sturmvoraus. Grandma's game is doubtless devious and complicated - she hasn't survived this long in that family without skills - but it probably does not involve The Other winning, or even gaining significant ground.

    Secondly, I would guess that Castle Wulfenbach by itself could carry 25,000 troops if you were willing to crowd them in. If the Polar Lords have resources similar to the Wulfenbach Empire, it takes 40 Castle Wulfenbachs to move 1,000,000 troops. And maybe you don't need to fly a million troops - half a million are advancing on foot / by Sparky ground transport and seizing the terrain close to the border.

    100 ships 1/5 the size of Castle Wulfenbach, and you're seizing cities hundreds of miles from the border on day one. As Deliverance noted, stranger things have happened in this strip.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Agatha is smart, but with the time stop still in place, she can't do a lot for Mechanicsburg. My guess is that she wants to acquire the lantern first before returning, and since they just nailed down the probably location where it is going to be, that's not unreasonable.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbey View Post
    Agatha is smart, but with the time stop still in place, she can't do a lot for Mechanicsburg. My guess is that she wants to acquire the lantern first before returning, and since they just nailed down the probably location where it is going to be, that's not unreasonable.
    Right, and the longer she delays getting the lantern, the higher the possibility that they become unable to track Madwa.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyoi View Post
    But Zola is NOT the other. She's a former pawn in the Storm King game who has hijacked command of part of the Other's command structure and is now using the Other's servants to carry out her own conquest attempt. Grandma is just trying to reign her back in to pawn status.
    She does have a copy of the Other on her head though.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    She does have a copy of the Other on her head though.
    This copy was trapped and better secured. We hope, at any rate.

    As to Zola being under Grandma's thumb, it is quite possible that the invasion was set up in advance by Zola, and is happening without her active involvement. In that case it would have fired regardless of whether Zola was free or not.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    i half expect agatha to say "no" and split the team another way.
    It's "locksmith of LOVE!" not "LO!"

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Really, getting the three of those angry at you is NOT a good idea. I don't care if you ARE an god queen.
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    There are times to push back, and this does not feel like one of them. Especially when the god-queen in question is sending an army under your command to assist you.

    The division of the teams is not unreasonable. Gil's the one commanding the Empire so he needs to go. Agatha has an excellent case for going for the lantern. Agatha and Martellus have to go together, and Gil and Tarvek work well together. Everyone else Albia is letting them go wherever (I imagine most will go with Agatha).

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbey View Post
    There are times to push back, and this does not feel like one of them. Especially when the god-queen in question is sending an army under your command to assist you.

    The division of the teams is not unreasonable. Gil's the one commanding the Empire so he needs to go. Agatha has an excellent case for going for the lantern. Agatha and Martellus have to go together, and Gil and Tarvek work well together. Everyone else Albia is letting them go wherever (I imagine most will go with Agatha).
    Yeah, the only one I can see possibly switching is Tarvek.

    Quote Originally Posted by locksmith of lo View Post
    i half expect agatha to say "no" and split the team another way.
    The only realistic change I can see is switching Tarvek to Team Agatha.

    Agatha is going where she wants to go.

    Gil's responsibilities to his Empire means he really should go counter the invasion.

    Martellus (unless his cat is ready, which I don't think it is) has to go with Agatha.

    Trelawney does seem in favor of going along with Albia and Klaus's plan to get together with Gil, so she should be fine with her assignment.

    So it just comes down to Tarvek. I've no doubt he'd want to stay with Agatha, and he could help there, but as you said he does work well with Gil.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    The most pissed-off face in that last panel is Orotine's. The Muse of Geometry, the uber-Clank that can see connections and relationships. She does not like what she's seeing.

    It looks to me like Albia is trying to match Agatha up with Martellus, probably because he'd be the worst possible husband for her and would keep the Heterodyne busy with stupid stuff at home, hence weakened relative to England. Gil + Agatha, or Tarvek + Agatha, leads to a strong unified nation in Europa with competent leadership and a minimum of palace intrigue. Albia wants Europa to stop the Other, but after that, there's a few centuries of English foreign policy that add up to "Don't let the Continent become unified against us".

    EDIT: And, surprisingly, Martellus is the only one who seems to be paying attention to Orotine.

    We've talked before about Phil's odd variations of "how big is someone" - in these last few strips, Martellus looks ENORMOUS. Probably as big as Tarvek and Gil put together.
    Last edited by Shining Wrath; 2021-03-24 at 07:53 AM.
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