Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

[Manga Shoggoth]

I just don't see it happening. She has expressed zero interest in how things work or are made. She seems interested in Higgs and Agatha, and then fighting, and then cake.

I don't know... If you can have Social Science-type sparks (not to mention Queens), I don't see why you can't have combat or tactically specialised sparks.

[hungrycrow]

I don't know... If you can have Social Science-type sparks (not to mention Queens), I don't see why you can't have combat or tactically specialised sparks.

Even the social science spark wanted to build a mad science experiment. Zeetha doesn't want to push the boundaries on fighting and find new, unthinkable techniques. She just trains really hard.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Even the social science spark wanted to build a mad science experiment. Zeetha doesn't want to push the boundaries on fighting and find new, unthinkable techniques. She just trains really hard.

And Zeetha is interested in developing new techniques (especially ones to counter Geisters). The point I was responding to was "She has expressed zero interest in how things work or are made." because she has no interest in the Science! bits - that doesn't necessarly exclude her from being or becoming a spark, or a Queen for that matter.

I agree it's unlikley (which, with my score means it is probably the next page).

[Traab]

Even the social science spark wanted to build a mad science experiment. Zeetha doesn't want to push the boundaries on fighting and find new, unthinkable techniques. She just trains really hard.

Awakening the spark is what causes those fits of mwahaha, not a predilection for going mwahaha causing the spark. So technically if she DID awaken it here, then yes, creating absurd combat techniques that involve becoming a cyborg or whatever would theoretically be in her wheelhouse for spark style. Not that I think she will, it would be like sooka being a bender after spending several seasons as the warrior guy. It would be kinda lame.

[Ellen]

BTW, has there been any speculation about the skeleton on this page?

https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/com...2#.YUs72vlKj5U

It has a crown and floating things around its head, which have thus far been standard on Queens I think.

I've seen speculation elsewhere that those are the remains of a queen killed by Lu.

It's a skeleton, but I would have thought a Queen's floaty things vanish with death. If that's not the case, what causes the floaty things? Is it something anchored in the Queens when they change but separate from the individual and that's why it's still there after death?

Or, despite the whole skeleton thing, is this person only "mostly dead"?

Also, it really bothers me that Agatha does not call Judy and Punch, 'mom' and 'dad'. Been meaning to mention that for years, but never got around to it. Glad I got that off my chest. :)

Although they pretty much were her parents (and Agatha has called them her parents), Agatha grew up knowing "mother" and "father" are the people in her locket. She grew up calling Punch and Judy by their aliases, Adam and Lilith the way Dorothy grew up calling her parent figures Uncle Henry and Auntie Em. It's the same thing. They're her parents. She just had different names for them.

Punch and Judy would have had several reasons for encouraging this. If the neighbors ever had one of those pitchfork-and-torches parties going for constructs in the area, Agatha, evidently human and known to be their adopted (not biological) daughter would be safer.

But, if someone ever realized they were the Heterodynes' Punch and Judy, they could go with the story they tried to feed Klaus, that she was an orphan they'd adopted.

So, I can see it as something Agatha might have naturally done, but it was also something Punch and Judy made sure she did to protect her. For her, those names mean "Mom" and "Dad."

[Mechalich]

Although they pretty much were her parents (and Agatha has called them her parents), Agatha grew up knowing "mother" and "father" are the people in her locket. She grew up calling Punch and Judy by their aliases, Adam and Lilith the way Dorothy grew up calling her parent figures Uncle Henry and Auntie Em. It's the same thing. They're her parents. She just had different names for them.

Historically, this sort of thing was fairly common too. Orphaned children raised by close relatives of their biological parents were a regularity in the days when the chances of death in childbirth, war, and via accident were much more frequent than they are now. In a world like that of GirlGenius a significant percentage of children will be raised in this situation, with parents who are not their biological mother and father, especially in areas with recent histories of violence and/or epidemic.

[Shining Wrath]

I don't know... If you can have Social Science-type sparks (not to mention Queens), I don't see why you can't have combat or tactically specialised sparks.

And Grandma had a Spark who specialized in spectaculars, and deployed them when Martellus defeated Andronicus.

[Manga Shoggoth]

And Grandma had a Spark who specialized in spectaculars, and deployed them when Martellus defeated Andronicus.

Yup - I forgot about her.

Also, most of the Circus were sparks as well.

[DaFlipp]

Her time with Mr. Higgs should have taught Zeetha the foolishness of that thinking. Also, she just uttered the words: "Sacred Guardians."

So this is a long shot and probably won't happen, but I actually just thought of a scenario where it wouldn't be "foolish" at all.

*Guardians start to stir*
Agatha: "ZEETHA! Why did you do that?!"
Zeetha: "Glad you asked! See, if anyone disturbs something under their watch--"
Sacred Guardians: "FOOLISH WHELPS! FACE THE HOLY WRATH OF--"
Zeetha, shaking Sacred Guardian by the shoulders: "YES HELLO PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO GET TO SKIFANDER FROM HERE"

[wingnutx]

Zeetha is not particularly devout.

[Fyraltari]

Zeetha is not particularly devout.

She's the kind who's only really devout during the holy days.

[Shining Wrath]

And next we learn that Skifanderian dances preserve the knowledge of how to build a mirror!
Also, Agatha is adorable when she's culturally insensitive.

[Radar]

And next we learn that Skifanderian dances preserve the knowledge of how to build a mirror!
Also, Agatha is adorable when she's culturally insensitive.

It's more like the knowledge was lost as the current generation only remembers bits and pieces in form of rituals. It is even less than the notion of appeasing the machine spirits with sacred oils and chants - those at least had some connection to maintenance procedures. I actually wonder, if those chants include such powerful spells as "Work you piece of junk!"

[Shining Wrath]

It's more like the knowledge was lost as the current generation only remembers bits and pieces in form of rituals. It is even less than the notion of appeasing the machine spirits with sacred oils and chants - those at least had some connection to maintenance procedures. I actually wonder, if those chants include such powerful spells as "Work you piece of junk!"

You give Agatha bits and pieces of the instructions to build a Sparky gadget and a suitable lab, and she'll have that gadget built in a day and improved beyond the original the next day.

Thought: Agatha seems to be the most powerful Spark going - certainly one of the most flexible (clanks, replacing Martellus' "touch of the king" with an animal, death rays, et cetera). Is it possible Lucrezia wanted to ascend to Queenhood, needed a suitably powerful vessel to do it, and somehow modded Agatha to be the most Sparky Spark?

[Manga Shoggoth]

So, it appears Zeetha knows more about how things work or are made than was first thought. Little did she know she was dancing to the IKEA instructions...

[Divayth Fyr]

I'm not sure - seems like Lucrezia was more interested in having a construct body, and only realized you need an "organic mind" to ascend here. That version of Lu was quickly removed from Agatha and trapped. I guess it is possible she was freed somewhere down the line and went back, as time travel tends to make things... messy...

[wingnutx]

She's the kind who's only really devout during the holy days.

I was thinking the same thing :)

[Vinyadan]

You give Agatha bits and pieces of the instructions to build a Sparky gadget and a suitable lab, and she'll have that gadget built in a day and improved beyond the original the next day.

Thought: Agatha seems to be the most powerful Spark going - certainly one of the most flexible (clanks, replacing Martellus' "touch of the king" with an animal, death rays, et cetera). Is it possible Lucrezia wanted to ascend to Queenhood, needed a suitably powerful vessel to do it, and somehow modded Agatha to be the most Sparky Spark?

It's definitely possible that Lu played around with Agatha. The Mongfish were experts in biology, and helped produce Tarvek and Martellus as fit heirs to the Storm King, both of them strong sparks.

It's also true that Agatha is the result of the union of two very strong sparks: Lucrezia might be the strongest spark alive, while Billy and Barry came from a dynasty of powerful, oddly inventive sparks. The Heterodynes worked on biology (the various monsters), mechanics (the castle and the clanks), AI, and dimensional bending (the Dreen). So maybe Agatha is just the logical result.

[Shining Wrath]

It's definitely possible that Lu played around with Agatha. The Mongfish were experts in biology, and helped produce Tarvek and Martellus as fit heirs to the Storm King, both of them strong sparks.

It's also true that Agatha is the result of the union of two very strong sparks: Lucrezia might be the strongest spark alive, while Billy and Barry came from a dynasty of powerful, oddly inventive sparks. The Heterodynes worked on biology (the various monsters), mechanics (the castle and the clanks), AI, and dimensional bending (the Dreen). So maybe Agatha is just the logical result.

Or both ... start with Heterodyne + Mongfish genetics, add Mongfish dabbling, get Agatha, Girl Genius.

[Ellen]

Tekvari? Tech variable maybe?

Zeetha is not particularly devout.

We know her pantheon's chief goddess is about love and fertility. I'd guess they also have a god/goddess of warriors, someone Jagers could relate to. Toss in a deity who oversees friendship, and I'd say we've seen Zeetha be religious every day of her life.

[SZbNAhL]

Thought: Agatha seems to be the most powerful Spark going - certainly one of the most flexible (clanks, replacing Martellus' "touch of the king" with an animal, death rays, et cetera). Is it possible Lucrezia wanted to ascend to Queenhood, needed a suitably powerful vessel to do it, and somehow modded Agatha to be the most Sparky Spark?

That flexibility seems to be fairly common among the really top-tier sparks. Gil built a heavier than air flier, the infamous lightning stick, a clank that can learn from its mistakes and a sapient construct (at eight, no less). He's also a really good doctor.

Barry also built sapient constructs, a flying machine and a spark-suppression device, and those are just the things we know about.

Even Dr Beetle was capable both of building "the best self-contained fighting machines on the planet" and of working on Hive Engines, as well as being a skilled cryptographer.

[Rodin]

Actually, that last doesn't appear to be particularly notable. All Sparks write in code. It's a reference to how alchemists usually tried to hide their work, because they were afraid someone would steal their work. Just look at how difficult it was for Agatha to decode van Rijin's book. Split pages, invisible writing, etc. Code that could be broken by a team of (presumably non-Sparky) cryptographers would be child's play in comparison.

We've seen some of the protagonist Sparks read coded notes like they were reading a book. Beetle's notes were probably extra encrypted because he had so much to hide, but I'm betting the Baron would have been able to break the code relatively quickly if he'd been so inclined. He just had other, more important things to work on. Once Beetle was dead and the Hive Engine secure, the actual reason for his actions was no longer pressing.

[Rakaydos]

So todays comic. Seriously zeetha? Just gonna grab a mysterious floating object that even you admit is powerful? Hasnt anybody watched indianna jones in this universe?

Oh!

Warrior Queen's Hidden Jewel!

...I'm sorry, did I get it wrong? It's been so long...

[Manga Shoggoth]

Nope, I think you might be on to something there.

Interesting question - how did Barry know about Skifander? Presumably Lucrecia dumped the Baron there because nobody else knew where it was.

[PraetorDragoon]

So, are we going to expect explosions?

[SZbNAhL]

Actually, that last doesn't appear to be particularly notable. All Sparks write in code. It's a reference to how alchemists usually tried to hide their work, because they were afraid someone would steal their work. Just look at how difficult it was for Agatha to decode van Rijin's book. Split pages, invisible writing, etc. Code that could be broken by a team of (presumably non-Sparky) cryptographers would be child's play in comparison.

We've seen some of the protagonist Sparks read coded notes like they were reading a book. Beetle's notes were probably extra encrypted because he had so much to hide, but I'm betting the Baron would have been able to break the code relatively quickly if he'd been so inclined. He just had other, more important things to work on. Once Beetle was dead and the Hive Engine secure, the actual reason for his actions was no longer pressing.

I'll admit I was reaching a bit with that one. My general point is just that sparks tend not to stick to one field.

Incidentally, another example just occured to me: Count Wolkenstorfer, builder of giant robot suits, expert in electromagnetism and somehow solved the Collatz Conjecture in his head. And he's not even a major spark.

[Squire Doodad]

I'll admit I was reaching a bit with that one. My general point is just that sparks tend not to stick to one field.

Incidentally, another example just occured to me: Count Wolkenstorfer, builder of giant robot suits, expert in electromagnetism and somehow solved the Collatz Conjecture in his head. And he's not even a major spark.

It seems like they tend to revolve around an overarching field, though, which is why Agatha and Gil being able to do so many things is ostensibly uncommon?
Then again, it's possible that, say, Gil is more dedicated to physics and aerodynamics (flying machine, lightning rod, etc), and then fixed Punch and Judy based off of techniques he learned in Zagreb as opposed to out of pure sparkiness. Though we wouldn't know to what degree, and Gil appears to have a wider variety of abilities general.

Side note: apparently Leopold is a Mongfish project, but Seffie, Tarvek, and Martellus are not, at least not significantly.

[Vinyadan]

Gil kinda made it into a shtick of his public persona -- "I am Gilgamesh Wulfenbach, little man -- and there is nothing I couldn't do, had I cause!"

[TeChameleon]

I don't know how much of Agatha's Sparkiness is a result of Lucrezia's tinkering; it seems like Agatha has a strong specialization in robotics and to a lesser extent AI, and while Lulu has an interest in AI as a side-effect of her passion for dealing with consciousness, she doesn't seem to care in the slightest about robotics.

Thinking about it, if I had to put a label on Gil's Sparky specialization, I'd characterize him as a... the best way I can think of is as a 'Innovator Spark'. Klaus was unquestionably a monstrously powerful Spark, able to understand, break down, and syncretize the works of other Sparks, which allows him to improve on their work, but it's incremental improvements- slightly better efficiency here, a useful symbiosis there, all adding up eventually to a game-breaking army, but he doesn't really innovate, at least that we've seen. Gil, on the other hand, seems to tend towards wanting to find new ways to tackle old problems, meaning he ends up with things like Adaptive AI, inventing heavier-than-air flight, lightning sticks, and the like.

... in an odd way, that almost makes it so that Gil is the future, and Tarvek is the past. Tarvek is all about reviving the Golden Age of the Storm King, bringing back the legendary feats of past great Sparks and the Coalition of West; his greatest works are re-discoveries. Gil, on the other hand, is all about the Pax Transylvania and his greatest works are new things that haven't been seen before. Legend and Progress, as it were.

[Spamotron]

So uh, apparently the Girl Genius Roleplaying Game by GURPS released over a month ago with almost no fanfare. So that's a thing now.