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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Oh Krosp... It's dangerous to interrupt a kiss...

    (These two pages sprang to mind immediately - At least Agatha didn't need prompting this time.)
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Krosp, don't go ask Agatha for romantic advice. That is a terrible idea.
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    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Do you think Tarvek kissed Agatha? Because if Agatha initiated it...in front of Gil...I think it changes the whole romantic plot path the Foglios have mapped out.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Do you think Tarvek kissed Agatha? Because if Agatha initiated it...in front of Gil...I think it changes the whole romantic plot path the Foglios have mapped out.
    Eh, seeing that she was going to kiss Gil too before the cateorite interrupt not so much I'd think.

    Tarvek's definitely gonna taunt Gil about it though.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2021-04-02 at 11:03 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Yeah I wonder what agatha is thinking really. I mean, she is acting like they are a threesome that have sat down discussed things and come to the decision that they are fine with this. That felt, kinda jarring.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Do you think Tarvek kissed Agatha? Because if Agatha initiated it...in front of Gil...I think it changes the whole romantic plot path the Foglios have mapped out.
    The cinderella parody a few years ago already showed what the romantic endgame is going to be.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Personally, I've believed that the polyandry route has been Agatha's most likely outcome for...well over a decade, now. Ever since the castle arc.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The cinderella parody a few years ago already showed what the romantic endgame is going to be.
    I guess I thought the parody was just that...comedy.

    Considering how open the Foglios have been with different sexual relationships in this comic (not even mentioning elsewhere), I shouldn't be surprised.

    Now I just feel there's no romantic rivalry if everyone's in a polyamorous relationship in the seraglio.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Teln View Post
    Personally, I've believed that the polyandry route has been Agatha's most likely outcome for...well over a decade, now. Ever since the castle arc.
    I agree but its gotta progress to that point. This scene feels like they skipped over some steps. Gil and Tarvek have been in a fairly low key competition over agatha all this time and I dont recall there ever being a moment where they went, "Hey, wanna share?" And agreed to it.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Regardless of the feelings of the characters, there are distinctive outside forces working against a formalized polyamorous relationship here. Agatha, being the Heterodyne, can get away with basically anything, but the rest of the universe very much does not have 21st century social mores. For Gil, in particular, entering into a polyandrous relationship with Agatha is not compatible with his retention of his post as Baron, and he's very clear far from ready to abrogate that particular responsibility. This is a notable contrast with Tarvek who seems to have set aside any and all imperial ambitions he may have once possessed and appears quite content to be 'Spouse-of-the-Heterodyne' going forward (he's aided in this by the existence of Martellus, who is only too happy to fill up any Storm King shaped holes in the plot).
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    I'm definitely leaning towards "Agatha Winds Up With Both Of Them" as at least a possible endgame option, despite the societal difficulties it would face, for a few reasons:

    1.) Sparks in general and Heterodynes in particular have always been more than happy to flaunt tradition
    2.) The Foglios just seem like the kind of folks who would be open to that sort of ending, and could in fact spin some amusing chaos from the fallout of such an arrangement
    3.) History is chock full of monarchs, aristocrats, and other prominent figures who, in retrospect, were quite clearly living lives that their contemporaries would have considered to be "in sin", but who established paper-thin covers of plausible deniability that allowed them to get away with, at worst, the occasional whispered rumor. (See: any historical figure noted to have remained a lifelong bachelor, only to be buried beside their "longtime friend and roommate" with whom they shared reams of florid correspondence)

    That said, I don't see their current behavior as having settled into polyamory so much as being the result of a number of developments (which, admittedly, one could argue somewhat resemble a polyamorous arrangement):

    1.) Gil and Tarvek both have strong feelings for Agatha.
    2.) Agatha has strong feelings for both Gil and Tarvek.
    3.) All three parties are fully, 100% aware of points 1 and 2.
    4.) All three parties agree that they have *much bigger priorities* right now than settling any romantic scores (notably this point has wavered at times, but seems to have been embraced by all involved now).
    5.) Gil and Tarvek have gotten to know each other well enough to, at the very least, respect one another deeply. (I leave it to those with keener shipping senses than I to determine whether those feelings run any deeper.)
    6.) Due to points 3, 4, and especially 5, neither of the guys is in a position to object too strongly to Agatha being somewhat romantic toward the other party, so long as she does not indicate such actions as a definitive choice (which a farewell kiss decidedly is not).

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Regardless of the feelings of the characters, there are distinctive outside forces working against a formalized polyamorous relationship here. Agatha, being the Heterodyne, can get away with basically anything, but the rest of the universe very much does not have 21st century social mores. For Gil, in particular, entering into a polyandrous relationship with Agatha is not compatible with his retention of his post as Baron, and he's very clear far from ready to abrogate that particular responsibility. This is a notable contrast with Tarvek who seems to have set aside any and all imperial ambitions he may have once possessed and appears quite content to be 'Spouse-of-the-Heterodyne' going forward (he's aided in this by the existence of Martellus, who is only too happy to fill up any Storm King shaped holes in the plot).
    I mean, the Wulfenbach Empire and the Pax Transylvania run on „Don't make me come over there.“.
    Anyone starting something over that relationship would risk not just the Empire coming over there, but also the Heterodyne.

    You think the Baron expressing his annoyance at your antics was bad? That the Heterodyne and their hordes coming to play was scary?
    Try dealing with both at the same time.
    Plus whatever Tarvek can throw in.

    No, until there's clear signs of weakness there won't be any open actions over this.
    And if the three do show weakness?
    There'd be a bunch of rebellions anyway, so whatever.

    Will the noble houses like it? No.
    But they didn't like Klaus either, with the whole ”Baron“ thing. (Well, according to Tweedle, but I think he can be trusted on those topics. Well, not trusted, but he probably knows what he's talking about.)
    So... Business as usual I'd say.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah I wonder what agatha is thinking really. I mean, she is acting like they are a threesome that have sat down discussed things and come to the decision that they are fine with this. That felt, kinda jarring.
    What Agatha is thinking is that she loves and cares about both of them, but hasn't actually settled on which one she loves more. Gil and Tarvek both want Agatha for themselves, but at the same time they respect the fact that Agatha does not need to make a choice right away, and are willing to give her time to make a choice for herself... They are fine with it, because Agatha's not doing anything behind their backs or trying to lead them on (like what would be the case if she were cheating on them). When it comes down to it, all agatha has done with both of them is nothing more than kisses which is fairly benign; If she were actually sleeping with both of them, now THAT would be worth making a fuss about

    I don't think they are heading down the polygamy route. The foglios do seem to think the idea of a girl having two boyfriends is fun, but that's all it is; Just fun. Its not a serious long lasting relationship. Having the love triangle as it is also adds some fun drama because Agatha spends enough time with both to make it convincing that she really could go either way (unlike other stories where the MC has a clear single destined love interest and all other characters are clearly have no chance)
    Last edited by slayerx; 2021-04-02 at 03:40 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I dont recall there ever being a moment where they went, "Hey, wanna share?" And agreed to it.
    Tarvek called dibs on a room in Agatha's seraglio.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnutx View Post
    Tarvek called dibs on a room in Agatha's seraglio.
    It is unclear how serious he was being - looking at the context, it could be he was making a joke to de-grumpify Agatha.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    It is unclear how serious he was being - looking at the context, it could be he was making a joke to de-grumpify Agatha.
    Go ahead a few more comics, this was when they hit the laughing gas plant and it effected their mood.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by DaFlipp View Post
    I'm definitely leaning towards "Agatha Winds Up With Both Of Them" as at least a possible endgame option, despite the societal difficulties it would face, for a few reasons:

    1.) Sparks in general and Heterodynes in particular have always been more than happy to flaunt tradition
    2.) The Foglios just seem like the kind of folks who would be open to that sort of ending, and could in fact spin some amusing chaos from the fallout of such an arrangement
    3.) History is chock full of monarchs, aristocrats, and other prominent figures who, in retrospect, were quite clearly living lives that their contemporaries would have considered to be "in sin", but who established paper-thin covers of plausible deniability that allowed them to get away with, at worst, the occasional whispered rumor. (See: any historical figure noted to have remained a lifelong bachelor, only to be buried beside their "longtime friend and roommate" with whom they shared reams of florid correspondence)

    That said, I don't see their current behavior as having settled into polyamory so much as being the result of a number of developments (which, admittedly, one could argue somewhat resemble a polyamorous arrangement):

    1.) Gil and Tarvek both have strong feelings for Agatha.
    2.) Agatha has strong feelings for both Gil and Tarvek.
    3.) All three parties are fully, 100% aware of points 1 and 2.
    4.) All three parties agree that they have *much bigger priorities* right now than settling any romantic scores (notably this point has wavered at times, but seems to have been embraced by all involved now).
    5.) Gil and Tarvek have gotten to know each other well enough to, at the very least, respect one another deeply. (I leave it to those with keener shipping senses than I to determine whether those feelings run any deeper.)
    6.) Due to points 3, 4, and especially 5, neither of the guys is in a position to object too strongly to Agatha being somewhat romantic toward the other party, so long as she does not indicate such actions as a definitive choice (which a farewell kiss decidedly is not).
    I'm still shipping the polyamory too, but I agree with the above poster that that's not happening right now. (But hey, give Gil and Tarvek some time alone together ... defending Mechanicsburg ... who knows?)

    I seem to be in a bit of a railing-against-story-conventions mood lately, but I'm wondering what makes us think this is going to end with Agatha getting married anyway? Someone back up there seemed fairly certain of it - do we have anything substantial?
    I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    I seem to be in a bit of a railing-against-story-conventions mood lately, but I'm wondering what makes us think this is going to end with Agatha getting married anyway? Someone back up there seemed fairly certain of it - do we have anything substantial?
    The Electric Coffin short story, which was intended (so very long ago) to give a look at what Agatha would be doing once her big adventure is over, has her traveling alone with Krosp, and needing to recruit some random rogue constructs along the way.

    However, much speculation has been attached as to whether or not to ascribe significance to her Heterodyne-trilobite-with-Wulfenbach-wings medallion.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    The Electric Coffin short story, which was intended (so very long ago) to give a look at what Agatha would be doing once her big adventure is over, has her traveling alone with Krosp, and needing to recruit some random rogue constructs along the way.

    However, much speculation has been attached as to whether or not to ascribe significance to her Heterodyne-trilobite-with-Wulfenbach-wings medallion.
    Quickly looking through my Girl Genius books, I also found "Personal Trainer", where Agatha murmurs in her sleep:
    "mm... GIL! STOP THAT! (giggle)"

    But after that volume, the following books have extra art panels which depict Agatha with both Gil and Tarvek. (And the two latter often having curiously lost their shirts... )

    So, to me it seems that the Foglios originally planned to pair Agatha with just Gil in the end, but somewhere along the line decided that Agatha would be better off taking them both.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by HeeJay View Post
    Quickly looking through my Girl Genius books, I also found "Personal Trainer", where Agatha murmurs in her sleep:
    "mm... GIL! STOP THAT! (giggle)"

    But after that volume, the following books have extra art panels which depict Agatha with both Gil and Tarvek. (And the two latter often having curiously lost their shirts... )

    So, to me it seems that the Foglios originally planned to pair Agatha with just Gil in the end, but somewhere along the line decided that Agatha would be better off taking them both.
    I think tarvek was supposed to be the bad guy but got too popular or they enjoyed writing him coming around or whatever, so they then created the triangle we all know and love today.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    I agree that Tarvek was originally intended to be a villain, but was saved due to the twin virtues of being surprisingly popular among fans and enjoyable to write as a friendly foil to Gil. His "loyally duplicitous weasel" schtick is a perfect counterpoint to Gil's "virtuous overlord" game. Neither are particularly compelling on their own and both come out as far stronger characters for having a friend and rival in the other.

    Of course, there's the downside of the Shipping Wars - it builds a rabid fanbase quickly, but it polarizes them just as quickly. A substantial chunk of the fanbase is going to hate the outcome either way if Agatha makes a choice, and if she chooses neither someone will make a killing selling torches and pitchforks to the masses. Choosing both is the safest way to tease the fans AND keep them, especially if you want to pull that fanbase into another project after GG wraps up.

    Personally, I'm not a shipper, per se. I just want to see the best story I can see, and if the storytellers think GG is best ended with a three-headed European Empire, I'll enjoy seeing it. I could definitely see Empress Agatha doing whatever the heck she wants while Gil runs the Empire and Tarvek keeps the seedy underbelly under control. If it ends with Agatha choosing a reanimated (and Jaegered?) Lars over being merely the next Heterodyne to utterly destroy the foundations of civilization through the games she plays with her boy toys, you know, I may well find that a compelling story as well. Or if she decides her true husband is Science!! and everything else is a distraction? Well, I'll be sipping a nice lemonade/ice tea blend while watching the fires spread as all three sides of the fanbase finally agree on something.

    Good stuff, that.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Yes Krosp. There is a cat.

    Gil dealt with that very well.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    First of all, based on today's art, Agatha enjoyed kissing Tarvek, but kissing Gil was ... special. Look at her face in the last panel.
    Secondly, Trelawny now knows that she's got to raise her game to even register with Gil.

    As to the resolution of the romantic triangle:

    Horatio Nelson famously was living with a married couple when ashore, and they referred to themselves as the three-in-one. Was it scandalous? Oh yes. Did anyone suggest relieving Admiral Nelson of his post? Not in public. Not after the Baltic and the Nile, they didn't. Point being that if you have enough power, you can get away with damn near anything. Baron Wulfenbach + The Heterodyne + The Storm King is enough power to do The Naughty Threesome in front of the Fifty Families and demand, and receive, applause.

    And yes, I expect Tarvek to wind up Storm King. He has the stronger claim, and I do not think he's forgiven nor forgotten a poisoned dagger in the heart from his cousin. Look for him to kill Martellus personally (and enjoy it) at some point.

    The tragic alternative is for one of them to die saving the other two.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    First of all, based on today's art, Agatha enjoyed kissing Tarvek, but kissing Gil was ... special. Look at her face in the last panel.
    Well, yeah. The difference is that she kissed Tarvek, but Gil kissed her. The other way around her reaction would've been the same, just for the other guy.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Well, yeah. The difference is that she kissed Tarvek, but Gil kissed her. The other way around her reaction would've been the same, just for the other guy.
    I am not sure that kisser / kissee is entirely responsible for the difference. The kisses I've been involved in were cooperative affairs.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Besides, Tarvek got in first, (Starting here, three pages), showing a remarkable connection to reality that Gil echoes here.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    Besides, Tarvek got in first, (Starting here, three pages), showing a remarkable connection to reality that Gil echoes here.
    Note the Jager General betting on both of them - and getting 1:5 odds for betting on the dark horse. Tarvek / Gil rated as even odds.

    As we know from Elan, if the odds were 1:1,000,000 that would make it a sure thing.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    I agree that Tarvek was originally intended to be a villain, but was saved due to the twin virtues of being surprisingly popular among fans and enjoyable to write as a friendly foil to Gil. His "loyally duplicitous weasel" schtick is a perfect counterpoint to Gil's "virtuous overlord" game. Neither are particularly compelling on their own and both come out as far stronger characters for having a friend and rival in the other.

    Of course, there's the downside of the Shipping Wars - it builds a rabid fanbase quickly, but it polarizes them just as quickly. A substantial chunk of the fanbase is going to hate the outcome either way if Agatha makes a choice, and if she chooses neither someone will make a killing selling torches and pitchforks to the masses. Choosing both is the safest way to tease the fans AND keep them, especially if you want to pull that fanbase into another project after GG wraps up.

    Personally, I'm not a shipper, per se. I just want to see the best story I can see, and if the storytellers think GG is best ended with a three-headed European Empire, I'll enjoy seeing it. I could definitely see Empress Agatha doing whatever the heck she wants while Gil runs the Empire and Tarvek keeps the seedy underbelly under control. If it ends with Agatha choosing a reanimated (and Jaegered?) Lars over being merely the next Heterodyne to utterly destroy the foundations of civilization through the games she plays with her boy toys, you know, I may well find that a compelling story as well. Or if she decides her true husband is Science!! and everything else is a distraction? Well, I'll be sipping a nice lemonade/ice tea blend while watching the fires spread as all three sides of the fanbase finally agree on something.

    Good stuff, that.
    Actually i would consider "both" to be a cop out. Relationships are serious emotional affairs. A lot of the drama from the love triangle comes from not just who the character will chose, but whose heart will be broken and how the rejected character handles it. Ending up with "both" allows the writer to easily skip all the drama that would normally come from a love triangle for an easy fix. Heck even answer of "no one" would still bring about some level of Drama and development for everyone involved. Not to mention the character picking one over the others can have a lot of narrative meaning asw ell. Really what's the point of spending so much time on the question of "who will she pick" if your just gonna settle with "both", the answer that would pretty much have the least amount of emotional impact? Heck it can actually feel like a smack in the face to all the shipping debates (i'm looking at you tenchi muyo)

    Not to mention i find such relationships to be inherently unfair. I mean its not really a threeway relationship; One person gets to have both, while the other two have to share. Heck when you consider how Agatha got jealous and mad when she thought Gil was flirting with Zola, it would be kind of hypocritical to expect Gil and Tarvek to share her unless she was willing to share them with others. Would Agatha suddenly become ok if Gil started having an open love affair with Seffie and Thrope? Sure it sounds very much like a heatrodyne to have multiple lovers, but the traditional hetrodyne was chaotic evil and not good role models; not hard to imagine that some of them might have had their own harems. But Agatha was raised by Punch and Judy and is more well balanced. She's more chaotic than her father, but she has more in common with him than the traditional heterodynes

    Again i don't see the foglios ending it with "both" as an answer. Again, i think they think the idea of having two boyfriends is fun, but its not the serious answer they will go with. Heck this may even be part of WHY the are introducing alternates for both Gil and Tarvek; adds drama and sets up rebound options... And honestly i'm not too worried about the shipping wars. Heck the whole reason why so many people seem to expect agatha to end up with both is because they could except either one as an answer. Shipping wars usually pop up because there's usually a clear divide between the potential love interests (fans like one character, but don't like the other). The foglio's have done a great job with both Gil and Tarvek making them both equally likable while also making sure they both have good chemistry with agatha so either will work as an effective choice. Frankly i think fans will be happy no matter who agatha chooses... really i think there would be more drama over who the rejected character ends up with

    if i had to pick, i'd say they may go with Gil. Not only was he the original ship, but from what we've seen it really does feel like Gil would not be happy with any one else; he wants a true partner and Agatha is the only one that does it for him. Seffie is neither a spark nor an adventurer; her crush on him is cute, but he would never be happy with her. Thrope is better fit, but he seems to always keep a distance between himself and her; seems like his respect for her has him treating her too much like a celebrity than an equal. Tarvek i could more easily see him moving on to someone else
    Last edited by slayerx; 2021-04-05 at 06:52 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
    Ending up with "both" allows the writer to easily skip all the drama that would normally come from a love triangle for an easy fix.
    Spoken like someone with neither first hand not second hand experiences about a polyamorous relationship.

    If Agatha chooses both, it won't be clean and clear-cut "Happily ever after."

    It will be, in the words of Anakin Skywalker, "This is where the fun begins!"

    Two persons, one relationship.
    But three persons, three relationships... Much more drama potential.
    Post, post, post, post an amusing and insightful comment!

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

    Quote Originally Posted by HeeJay View Post
    Spoken like someone with neither first hand not second hand experiences about a polyamorous relationship.

    If Agatha chooses both, it won't be clean and clear-cut "Happily ever after."

    It will be, in the words of Anakin Skywalker, "This is where the fun begins!"

    Two persons, one relationship.
    But three persons, three relationships... Much more drama potential.
    There are, in fact, people who are making polyamory work. As I noted, Horatio Nelson seemed to manage the trick. The French did not invent the phrase "ménage a trois" because they were bored one afternoon. In many cases, though, those relationships are (as slayerx noted) open to other temporary partners.

    So ...
    Agatha and Gil and Tarvek ... and Seffie and Trelawny, too. Why stop at three?
    Especially if, as I think the Foglios have hinted, this strip may get naughtier as their Experiments reach maturity.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

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