Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

[Wayson]

Also, they likely can only react to events that will happen, not those that have occurred.

Technically speaking, any event that has occurred is an event that will occur, from an atemporal perspective.

Much of the timey-wimey stuff in terms of changing the past depends on whether GG is a causal or acausal system universe. Put another way, is the time stream fixed with all events happening as predetermined, or can the past be changed by present and future actions? The not-quite-totally-canon Twitter adventures of Othar suggest that the GG universe is acausal, in that Othar being sent back in time with foreknowledge has altered the chain of events.

[sihnfahl]

Fortunately, they don't seem very fast.

You don't need to be fast when you can't be stopped. And when the situation doesn't require them to be fast.

Technically speaking, any event that has occurred is an event that will occur, from an atemporal perspective.

Technically speaking, yep. And the Dreen acted before the event occurred in response to the event occurring.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Oh, so the Dreen are also dangerous because they saw the cards in your hand when you laid them down at the end of the round, and acted accordingly? Indestructable, indomitable and future-vision to boot!

Yeah, go for it. Maybe I will get to propose the name for two thread titles in a row.

So noted.

[sihnfahl]

Oh, so the Dreen are also dangerous because they saw the cards in your hand when you laid them down at the end of the round, and acted accordingly? Indestructable, indomitable and future-vision to boot!

Well, they are tangential to linear time.

And in this case, guiding the players in the game to not put as much into the pot on the hand, so they don't lose as much. They'll still lose, but $10 instead of $100.

[geoduck]

Re: the Dreen's (lack of) speed, in the print-novel version of that scene...

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..the Dreen isn't really trying to catch Agatha at all. It just wants to make sure that Agatha and Tweedle end up together, which eliminates certain sub-optimal future timelines from happening. Though of course the text doesn't say what a Dreen considers to be bad.

[Squire Doodad]

Re: the Dreen's (lack of) speed, in the print-novel version of that scene...

Spoiler

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..the Dreen isn't really trying to catch Agatha at all. It just wants to make sure that Agatha and Tweedle end up together, which eliminates certain sub-optimal future timelines from happening. Though of course the text doesn't say what a Dreen considers to be bad.

If I had to guess,

Spoiler: Guess

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the Dreen wanted to ensure that Agatha and Tweedle were together to get them both out of the time stop, making it so Agatha can be free of it sooner and so Gil's priorities shift accordingly. Presumably this would all be to get the time stop to end sooner?

[wingnutx]

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So, Klaus did travel through a mirror.

[theangelJean]

(I've missed a day or so, so I can't tell if this comic is early or late. Spoilering in case it hasn't been up 24 hours.)

Spoiler: current comic

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Klaus "did" something for the Dreen. Bets on it being the Time Stop? Now I wonder how it works in the Dreen's favour...

[geoduck]

Spoiler

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So, Klaus did travel through a mirror.

We already had a brief glimpse of him doing that. The Dreen info is all new.

[sihnfahl]

(I've missed a day or so, so I can't tell if this comic is early or late. Spoilering in case it hasn't been up 24 hours.)

Spoiler: current comic

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Klaus "did" something for the Dreen. Bets on it being the Time Stop? Now I wonder how it works in the Dreen's favour...

My take is that it's something post-time stop. As far as we know, he had no interactions with the Dreen prior to Skifander, nor anything related to Timey Wimey stuff.

So they're aiding him in the past so he can help them later.

[Shining Wrath]

My guess is that what Klaus will do for the Dreen involves the Mechanicsburg Time Stop, and perhaps Klaus will aid the Dreen against the Something Very Bad that is approaching Mechanicsburg. At any rate, however powerful a Dreen may be, they are not at the power level where mortals are irrelevant to them.

[sihnfahl]

My guess is that what Klaus will do for the Dreen involves the Mechanicsburg Time Stop

Or tangentially connected. Klaus broke it, it got fixed by someone else (he's at the center of the Time Stop, after all), presumably Agatha after all her adventures.

But what was learned helped Klaus do something for the Dreen ... perhaps allowing them to return to the Higher Dimensions?

[f00bar]

Yesterday i was wondering:

When the Dreen told Agatha "you will come with us" during the siege on mechanigsburg
- why did the Dreen disappear immediatly afterwards?
- how far into the future do they see?
- is it really "the" future they see (in the end everthing fits together like a puzzle, all douglas-adams-like), or is it a set of different futures, and they can take influence? Maybe similar to Griffin from men in black 3?

We can now answer one of these questions: far. very far.
Well, whatever it is: now i am very certain that they did mean: "come with us to our home dimension".
If i had to make a wild guess: that home dimension *could* be similar to that of the Geisterdamen.
Maybe the other is trouble over there as well?

//EDIT:
i am surprised nobody seems to have proposed
- "Topologically similar"
- "Somewhat less dangerous"
as thread titles :-)

[sihnfahl]

why did the Dreen disappear immediatly afterwards?

Because the ultimate aim of getting Agatha out of Mechanicsburg before the time stop was achieved. She's instrumental in ending the time stop, presumably, so it's imperative that she not be caught in it.

how far into the future do they see?

As far as the plot demands.

is it really "the" future they see (in the end everthing fits together like a puzzle, all douglas-adams-like), or is it a set of different futures, and they can take influence?

I believe the second is implied. They presumably can't stop things that will happen, but they can take steps to nudge things into better outcomes before they happen.

Maybe the other is trouble over there as well?

The Dreen are involved in major time issues. Given that The Other has been playing around with Time, it's understandable the Dreen are going to be involved with her.

[BRC]

This puts Klaus's rise to power into some new context.

Like, it's certainly still impressive work on his part, going from a single spark with a baby and the clothes on his back, ruler of a destroyed minor house, best known as the comic-relief to the Heterodyne Boys to the ruler of most of Europa.

But if he had a pair of indestructible cosmic entities with him from the start, it certainly would have helped get his empire started.

[theangelJean]

I like how Klaus' attitude on returning to find Dreen waiting for him is not just "taken aback" but also "protect the baby".

[Radar]

I like how Klaus' attitude on returning to find Dreen waiting for him is not just "taken aback" but also "protect the baby".

Considering that at that time he just escaped Skifander in order to protect little Gilgamesh it is not surprising.

[sihnfahl]

But if he had a pair of indestructible cosmic entities with him from the start, it certainly would have helped get his empire started.

A pair of indestructible cosmic entities that know The Futures.

So they don't have to do more than advise him on what to do and say, and to whom and where.

[wingnutx]

We already had a brief glimpse of him doing that. The Dreen info is all new.

Ah, forgot about that.

[Manga Shoggoth]

i am surprised nobody seems to have proposed
- "Topologically similar"
- "Somewhat less dangerous"
as thread titles :-)

I record all the suggestions I am given, so if you want to propose one or more then go ahead. There is no time limit, and (within reason) no limit to the number of titles you can propose. However the thread title chosen tends to be one of the ones put forward towards the end of the thread.

Like, it's certainly still impressive work on his part, going from a single spark with a baby and the clothes on his back, ruler of a destroyed minor house, best known as the comic-relief to the Heterodyne Boys to the ruler of most of Europa.

It is noted in the novels that he lets that go on because he thinks it is hilarious. Very few people with any sense (and some sparks) are under any illusion that he is not very, very dangerous.

[Zazu Yen]

I record all the suggestions I am given, so if you want to propose one or more then go ahead. There is no time limit, and (within reason) no limit to the number of titles you can propose. However the thread title chosen tends to be one of the ones put forward towards the end of the thread.



It is noted in the novels that he lets that go on because he thinks it is hilarious. Very few people with any sense (and some sparks) are under any illusion that he is not very, very dangerous.

It's also very handy if your foe underestimates you. As noted, very few will these days but when the Baron started his climb to power I'm sure there were quite a few who were caught by surprise by the intelligent ruthlessness of "The Heterodyne Boys comic-relief"!

A time dam that goes BOOM when it unstops. Yes. That's what we saw happen to Vole isn't it? I don't want to imagine what would happen to the whole city in that scenario. Gil managed to keep it under better control with Tarvek, while curing his poison too, but to do that with a whole city?

And I'm just going to go ahead and nominate "Oh! You're surprised! How charming!" as the next thread title.

[TeChameleon]

This is entirely tangential, but I just noticed that the Baron's grumpy-face-sword is apparently Skifandrian in origin...

Which, in retrospect, makes enough sense that I can't believe I was slightly surprised by it. Face-stuff seems to be important somehow to Skifandrians (cf. Zeetha's gear and... headpiece... thing).

[slayerx]

A pair of indestructible cosmic entities that know The Futures.

So they don't have to do more than advise him on what to do and say, and to whom and where.

Eh i wouldn't put too much stock in the Dreen giving Klaus too much future incite. Afterall when he wasn't sure how to deal with Agatha and was still working out the mystery of the time windows he didn't seem to consult them on any of it. I think its very likely the Dreen would be very picky about what information they share with him. Heck they might even be picky about what kind of aid and service they would provide the Baron.

I'd say the Dreen would only make up a very tiny fraction for his rise to power. Klaus had dozens if not hundreds of Sparks and powerful families he would have needed to subjugate. One or two unstoppable units would be useful, but subjugating an entire continent requires a massive army. Really his biggest advantage would have likely came from his reputation as one of the heterodyne boys party members. Any common person looking for a hero to stop the wars would be quick to follow to him.

[Scarlet Knight]

I imagine Gil saying "I sure picked a bad week to stop drinking..."

[sihnfahl]

I think its very likely the Dreen would be very picky about what information they share with him. Heck they might even be picky about what kind of aid and service they would provide the Baron.

Well, naturally. They'd not give him any information that would go down a path that would result in problems.

Any common person looking for a hero to stop the wars would be quick to follow to him.

Talking to the right people in the right places, and you have an army to cow the Houses weakened by years of The Other.

[Shining Wrath]

If the Heterodyne boys are 10 on a 1-10 scale sparks, and Klaus is a 9.5, he's still overshadowed ... until he isn't.

Agatha is an 11.

[Radar]

If the Heterodyne boys are 10 on a 1-10 scale sparks, and Klaus is a 9.5, he's still overshadowed ... until he isn't.

Agatha is an 11.

Being a strong spark is one thing. The key difference between the Heterodyne Boys and Klaus is something else. The boys were charismatic heroes: they personally dealt with all the problems they encountered, persuaded people to play nice and moved on - they never gave much thought to any kind of structural stability of Europa. They did not even care much about running Mechanicsburg as far as we can tell. Klaus thinks a lot more about the grand scale and long term outcomes. He realized that a single traveling hero is not exactly capable of bringing peace to the continent. Ruling everything with an iron fist might not be a nice solution but it is a solution and his key rule of "Do not make me come to you." gives much autonomy to everyone under his rule.

[sihnfahl]

The boys were charismatic heroes: they personally dealt with all the problems they encountered, persuaded people to play nice and moved on - they never gave much thought to any kind of structural stability of Europa.

They were Affable Charismatic - people looked to them because, despite being sparks, they were approachable and human. And they were Good sparks, not accidentally (or deliberately) creating things that should not exist.

Klaus is charismatic in a different way. He draws people to him because he's a Strong Ruler. He provided stability in a world needing stability. He maintains stability in a world that just came out of an unstable time. He keeps Bad Sparks controlled in his territory.

[Manga Shoggoth]

And I'm just going to go ahead and nominate "Oh! You're surprised! How charming!" as the next thread title.

Noted.

This is entirely tangential, but I just noticed that the Baron's grumpy-face-sword is apparently Skifandrian in origin...

Which, in retrospect, makes enough sense that I can't believe I was slightly surprised by it. Face-stuff seems to be important somehow to Skifandrians (cf. Zeetha's gear and... headpiece... thing).

It would make even more sense if the sword is (from) his wife.

[factotum]

So this cat affected Krosp badly enough to suppress his appetite? No wonder they're interested in hearing about it now!